...from the irony file...what the US may have lost in the Libyan conflict....

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/20120326.aspx

Cheers

blutto

SHOUTBOX!
Sizzle: Having said much already ( ) prob should continue in the politics thread
Today at 13:18
Sizzle: But it's complex, I think, and lots of factors, including things like the influence of shock jocks
Today at 13:12
Sizzle: That's definitely part of it, IMO
Today at 13:11
Auscyclefan: theey have become socially conservative and have forgotten their core supporter base.
Today at 13:11
Sizzle: And people have different views about the legitimacy of minority govts
Today at 13:09
Sizzle: I think there are a lot of factors in Labor's downswing
Today at 13:09
Auscyclefan: Labor forming government is a poison chalice, so to speak.
Today at 13:04
Auscyclefan: either party who formed a deal with the independents and greens at the last election would lose the next election imo.
Today at 13:03
Sizzle: Think the hit would happen regardless of whether it's Brown or Milne at the helm
Today at 13:02
Sizzle: I agree, ACF
Today at 12:59
Auscyclefan: Personally think the Greens will take a hit at the next election in their primary vote but they won't collapse like other parties
Today at 12:58
Sizzle: I guess now is the time to resign, really, prior to build-up to next election
Today at 12:57
Sizzle: Yes, he has. Christine Milne should be good in his place. Very different temperament, but she's smart and very switched on
Today at 12:49
Auscyclefan: Don't like him at all but he has made big impact in Aus Politics and global green politics

Another round of pointless talks between Israel and Palestine then. Only serious demand being the halting of construction of settlements in the West Bank.

Speaker of the ouse of Representatives, Peter Slipper faces claims of sexual harrassment. http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/04/21/peter-slipper-faces-sex-scandal/

So ACF what do you reckon to the politics behind this?
with him screwing the Liberals over when he defected do you reckon they strategically leaked info they had covered up from the past to get him out of the speaker position and force Labour to put one of their MPs back in?

could be just a co-incidence (give the rumours about Slipper something was always going to come up eventually)

The very right wing Dutch govt. fell yesterday, opening the way for early elections, and the subsequent installation of a slightly less right wing govt.

What do you mean by "fell"? Was there a motion of no confidence?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17803042

We had a minority govt. that was kept in office by the support of Wilders. I can't see any of the opposition parties being prepared to do this lot any favours at all, so new elections look nailed on.

Thank God.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17803042

We had a minority govt. that was kept in office by the support of Wilders. I can't see any of the opposition parties being prepared to do this lot any favours at all, so new elections look nailed on.

Thank God.

Sounds like Australia except we will most likely have to wait until November 2013 for an election. I am counting down the days!!!!! 

At which point the country will elect someone even worse than Gillard 

Not possible. Christine Milne and the Greens won't form government.

Although some of the Dutch parties wanted the election as early as the end of June, it has now been agreed that such an early date is not practical. The election will now be held in September.

The largest right-wing (VVD) and left-wing (SP) parties are neck and neck in the polls with around 30 projected seats. Since the Dutch parliament consists of 150 seats, convoluted coalition discussions are always necessary after every election.

So how many parties does it usually take to form government?

If we're lucky, three. If not, then four or even five. ??? The fourth or fifth parties are usually very small, and are only brought on board when the three larger ones are just a few seats short of a majority.

Wilders complete and royally screwed over us Dutchies, because of him we might not make the 3% grade Brussels demands. This might mean the financial markets lose their faith in our system and we might lose our AAA rating, which will mean we will pay even more. Wilders made a horrid horrid decision based on his fear of actually being important and having to make heavy decisions other then: "GET ALL THE MUSLIMS OUT OF THE COUNTRY".

Hopefully a cabinet of D66, SP, GroenLinks & PvdA can be formed, a central-left cabinet will do society good instead of the society the VVD views as ideal, only two more seats in the parliament are needed to get a majority.

On another note, I GET TO VOTE FOR THE FIRST TIME.. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ;D

Politician's over in Australia harp on about the AAA rating. Doesn't mean they are doing a good job managing the economy. Not long ago, Spain's had a ranking close to the AAA ranking.

Although some of the Dutch parties wanted the election as early as the end of June, it has now been agreed that such an early date is not practical. The election will now be held in September.

The largest right-wing (VVD) and left-wing (SP) parties are neck and neck in the polls with around 30 projected seats. Since the Dutch parliament consists of 150 seats, convoluted coalition discussions are always necessary after every election.

So you basically have a minority government every term? That would be awful.

Hopefully a cabinet of D66, SP, GroenLinks & PvdA can be formed, a central-left cabinet will do society good instead of the society the VVD views as ideal, only two more seats in the parliament are needed to get a majority.

That will never happen. D66 and the SP won't go together, and it's unlikely that combination will get enough votes. Perhaps if you include the PvdD and/or ChristenUnie, but that would become difficult with 5 or even 6 parties involved. Besides, it's very likely the VVD will be the biggest, so unless they screw up they'll be in the government.

Most likely, and I think most desirable, would be a VVD-PvdA-D66-GroenLinks ('Paars-Plus') combination. That combination would be a liberal, reform oriented government, which is what I think the Netherlands need right now. The SP is too conservative right now, and they'll never get into an government anyway since the only parties they can work with are PvdA and GroenLinks, which won't be enough.

I will vote for one of D66 and GroenLinks, voted GroenLinks last few times but leaning towards D66 now (for the non-Dutch: those parties are somewhere in the middle between the LibDems and Labour in the UK).

No, we don't. Usually, the lengthy post-election coalition negotiations eventually lead to the formation of a government with a working majority. This was not possible after the previous election because all the other 'non-right' parties were ignored during the talks. Eventually, the only option was a minority government with the parliamentary support of Wilders' PVV, a party that makes me want to spit.

The election has now been set for Sept. 12.

The key word(s) in this post is "post-election". I personally regard a Coalition as a group of parties who are aligned BEFORE an election. That is what we have in Australia. Having a Coalition form after an election is dangerous and fragile imo as the parties clearly have different values on issues and therefore a compromise is harder to seek therefore legislation is much harder to be passed through Parliament. Might be different in the Netherlands.

I agree that your suggested out come is reasonably likely, though I find it less desirable than you. I am simply sick to death of the VVD always being in power! >

What do you mean about the SP being too conservative?

I don't hate the VVD that much, though they have been awful in this current government. However, I do believe we need to cut down our spending right now, the 3% budget deficit rule is something we'll need to work with, wether we want to or not, since punishment from the EU for breaking that rule is pretty much inevitable (unlike what the left-wing parties claim). That's actually one of the reasons I'm currently leaning towards voting for D66.
Actually the VVD 'always' being in power? Before Rutte they hadn't provided any president since the twenties. They weren't even part of the government before Rutte, with CDA, PvdA and CU. If there's any party that's always in power it's the CDA, which has been in every single post-war government with the exception of the two purple governments.

With the SP being too conservative I mean that they, like the PVV, don't dare to reform. They oppose measures like changing the retirement age to 67, which is inevitable when people are growing older while less young people are born. Same with reforms on the labour market, such as making it easier to fire employees, or the housing market, such as abolishing the subsidies on buying houses. We need those measures, since we need to move the economy and the country as a whole forward if we still want to be relevant in this world in 10 years. But the SP and the PVV (and to some extend the PvdA and even the CDA well) are stuck in the 20th century, trying to hold on to the old welfare system that just can't work in this modern time any more.

The solution in this is not in the boneheaded marketization the VVD favours, but in sensible, social reforms. The SP opposes pretty much every aspect of those reforms, so at least for me they shouldn't be part of any new government. Besides, they won't be able to work with any other parties anyway. D66 and the CDA will never work with the SP since they are simply to far left-wing, nevermind the VVD. Thus they won't get into any government unless the left parties miraculously gain 76 seats, which is highly unlikely.

Sorry for a probably very boring post for any non-Dutch people