I'm finding this discussion about Dutch politics to be very interesting, so I hope it continues.

Well if you do find it boring I am sure we could both find something to debate in regards to Aus politics! ;D

... this is perfect, absolutely brilliant....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002612871

Cheers

blutto

Does austerity help? We have the Brits as our Guinea pigs. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/20125142044487975.html

The intelligence forces certainly have a unique knack off dampening off any semblance of joy in lives. Here's them taking away some more joy
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3374538.ece?homepage=true

That's jihad, revolution and rebel porn off the list then

....interesting article on the ongoing Syrian crisis...makes a point of including Libya and Kosovo in the analysis

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2012/1096/op8.htm

...election day in Greece and France today...could lead to a very different Europe tomorrow...below is a link to an article that gives some background...

 http://www.thenation.com/blog/167727/voting-dark-greece-goes-polls

Cheers

blutto

So much for Sarkozy. Adieu Nicolas, bonjour François.

Biggest winner in Greece with a gain of 11 % points is the Left (not the revisionists from Pasok). I think it is heartening that in times of economic crisis, voters are looking to the Left for answers. The neoliberal experiment which has driven the world to the verge of ruin might finally be over.

Both the new govts may be carp. France, because from what I've heard, Hollande isn't too different to Sarkozy and Greece, well succeeding a govt in the mess they're in, it's already handicapped.

As for the spending. Sure, nothing in this world is free, not healthcare, not education, someone pays for it. But some form of structured spending isn't worse than the rubbish that the developed world, predominantly, has been served to in the past few years?

So much for Sarkozy. Adieu Nicolas, bonjour François.

Biggest winner in Greece with a gain of 11 % points is the Left (not the revisionists from Pasok). I think it is heartening that in times of economic crisis, voters are looking to the Left for answers. The neoliberal experiment which has driven the world to the verge of ruin might finally be over.

I find it hard to be happy about either election. In France, Hollande is certainly preferable over Sarkozy. But he is one of those socialists that are stuck in the previous century. He is what I call a conservative socialist: one that clings on to the welfare state of the sixties for dear life, while that welfare state is in desperate need of renewal. The neo-liberal solution wasn't the answer, but a return to that old-fashioned socialism isn't either. Proposals of Hollande such as (at least partially) reverting the recently upped retirement age are clear examples of that.

Furthermore, Hollande's talk of investing rather than cutting spending is dangerous. The EU's demand of the 3% deficit rule is absolutely necessary to keep the euro going. If even France won't cut down spending to 3%, there's no way other countries will. And if no one sticks to that rule, then the euro is pretty much lost. The EU has a choice between going forward and integrating further, even modernising, or either it can just quit the entire process of integration. The central problem of the EU is that economic integration, which everyone is (or should be) in favour of since it has brought Europe a great amount of wealth, can't be done without political integration. If you want a common market, you need common market regulation. And common market regulation requires stable exhchange rates and joined interest rates. At which point you might as well just have a common currency.
Thus, the EU has to move forward, or dissolve. In reality it's not that black and white of course, but those are the two main directions. While I find it increasingly hard to defend the EU, I think the only way Europe is going to remain competitive is by moving forward, towards more economic and political integration. The EU might be in need of a serious reform, but it is necessary for the future of the individual nations. And Hollande is moving away from all that. Perhaps he's not anti-Europe as such, but he is moving in that direction.

While I could go on for much longer on France, Hollande and (in particular) the future of Europe, I want to move on to the next election. Because while I might not be entirely satisfied with Hollande, the Greek election result is just plain terrifying. The country is pretty much ungoverneable as the parties in the middle don't have enough parliament seats to govern. The extreme left, heart-warming or not, won't be able to change a single thing if they don't join a government. And they already said they don't want to. In other words, they're just another political party that yells populistic slogans but never actually does anything. We have plenty of those parties all over Europe, but in Greece the parties have the possibility to almost block any attempt at forming a government, which really is necessary if the country wants to survive through the crisis.

However, all that is completely insignificant in comparison to the fact that the completely ridiculous party called Golden Dawn has gained 7% of the votes! Extreme right is too soft a label for this party, they are simply neo-nazi: they make the Dutch Geert Wilders and the PVV look like tolerant softies. An incredivly insane movement, these are the same guys that, dressed in black, give food to the needy pure Greeks (while denying it to foreigners), 'cleanse' playgrounds from any children of illegal immigrants so that the Greek children can play safely, at party meetings bring a salute that bears an uncanny similarity to the well known Nazi salute. Their motto: "Let's rid this country of the stench". Guess what stench they mean.

While the Golden Dawn will not have any actual power, since the other parties will resign the parliament before collaborating (a term which has a very sour side-meaning in combination with (neo-) nazi's, but isn't meant as such in this case) with them. But still, it is a sign of where Greece is going. A few more years of budget cuts and crisis, another government dissolution and new election and they'll grow even further. That such a violent movement gains the support of 7% of the population is a very, very bad sign for Greece, Europe and even the world as a whole.

And sorry for a way too long post, but I honestly can't understand all this. I can't even get angry at the party or the people that voted for them, it just scares the living hell out of me.

....further on the Greek fiasco....
 
"Alexis Tsipras, who was given a mandate on Tuesday to form a government after his party came in second, said banks should come under state control and called for an international commission to investigate whether Greece's debt is legal.
 
"The popular verdict clearly renders the bailout deal null," Tsipras told reporters.
 
Greece's Left Coalition party will get an historic chance on Tuesday to form a government opposed to the country's EU/IMF bailout, after the mainstream conservatives failed to cobble together a coalition following shock election results."

....the part about the legality of the debt may in the long prove the most interesting....

Cheers

blutto

...great article by Gabriel Kolko on the current situations in Europe and the USA...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/14/why-america-is-doomed-to-one-disaster-after-another/

Cheers

blutto

An interesting article by Guy Rundle:

"Total surveillance is just another nail in the coffin of civil society."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/its-not-just-big-brother-even-his-toys-are-watching-20120519-1yxj3.html#ixzz1vNFJ56aS

So you don't support the Greens and the ALP's push for a Government controlled media watchdog which came from the Finkelstein Report?

If we had an austerity package, he might have a point. But, just like Krugman's drivel a few weeks ago, there is no mention of any evidence that there are actually any austerity measures in place. There's a reason for that.

The current UK  Government are going for some kind of record when it comes to not doing what they said they were going to do; reducing Government spending is yet another broken promise.

...if we had an austeritiy package?...that's funny...

...you might want to get a hold of this Brit dude named Cameron who was talking drivel at something or other called Davos...he seems rather confused given what you have stated...probably just hasn't got your memo yet....

 http://www.france24.com/en/20110128-britain-cameron-success-austerity-davos-forum

...the money line is...

"Britain's Cameron to talk up 'success' of austerity

British Prime Minister David Cameron is expected to extol the virtues of budgetary discipline and claim the UK economy is on the mend as politics take centre stage at the World Economic Forum on Friday."

...and here is an American source in case you don't believe something from a nation of "surrender monkeys"...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/despite-french-warning-on-austerity-britains-cameron-insists-uk-must-stand-by-spending-cuts/2012/05/08/gIQA7jw29T_story.html

....the money line here is...

"LONDON — Britain must stick to its tough austerity measures despite doubts elsewhere in Europe over the best remedy to fix the continent’s stalled economies, Prime Minister David Cameron insisted Tuesday."

....and here is something from the home world to consider..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-to-tell-franois-hollande-austerity-works--but-king-raises-alarm-7758129.html

...and here is a nice little video to view...

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-bashir/46737498#46737498

...and from the Bloomberg group...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-16/cameron-to-say-he-ll-stick-to-austerity-sees-euro-risk.html

...now I may have your insight into the situation but there seems to be this austerity meme that has been attached to British economic policies that has deluded a lot of people including this guy named Cameron ...who is this guy anyway?...like he is not important is he?...

Cheers

blutto

...if we had an austeritiy package?...that's funny...

....
Cheers

blutto

Sorry to take so long to reply.

Look at what I wrote properly. There is no evidence of austerity. Government spending has continued to rise and at a faster rate than even Labour were promising pre-election. Government borrowing is continuing to rise and faster than even Labour promised to let it rise. There is evidence for this that you can look up easily. What you spent so much time sourcing were just the hopeless lies of desperate politicians, not evidence of anything at all.

So you reply to a Krugman accolyte's evidence-free rambling with an evidence-free ramble from Krugman himself.  Has this debating technique got you very far in the past? Maybe you've tried, "God must exist, it says so in the bible"?

Social care spending is going up. The Health service is one of only two areas that were ring-fenced against any budget cuts. Krugman does not have any facts to make his case, that is why he doesn't use any.

It doesn't matter whether Krugman himself says that this Government is running an austerity programme and dismantling the social care system or whether it's somebody who has an involuntary emission whenever Krugman says anything who says it; there is no evidence to back up Krugman's assertion.

Well, will more unregulated borrowing just not lead to another Greece? Sure Britain has a much better rating and their debt is far more regulated, but it's still debt. I'm thinking that if the economy stays as such and the only reserves being pumped are printed notes and borrowed cash, that could lead to spiralling inflation and what not. Too much to lose to even comprehend trying that, but I could be completely wrong again.