Giro d'Italia 2012

just some guy · « **on:** May 03, 2012, 18:44 »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gallery-scarponi-awarded-2011-giro-ditalia-trophy

Hope he rides in Pink on Sunday

just some guy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:52 »

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/still-my-giro-win-says-contador-20120504-1y4gh.html

AG · « **Reply #2 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:21 »

Quote

But when asked how he felt about Scarponi being the official winner, he said: ''What is written on a piece of paper is something. Then there's the feeling I have … that this Giro d'Italia 2011 is mine, that this Giro, I won it.''

its hard. I feel for Alberto, and I loved the way he won.

But, he was caught ... and he should not have been there to win it in the first place.

ram · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:33 »

Contador should just suck it up and move on. He got banned and it won't help the sport if he wants to hog the headlines.

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2012, 12:49 »

AC, Shut up, we all know what happened. We do not need to hear you cry about it. You cheated, you got caught, you got punished, YOU ARE NOT THE WINNER.

Slow Rider · « **Reply #5 on:** May 05, 2012, 15:20 »

He didn't cheat during that Giro though. I really dislike the idea of taking away wins by retroactive suspensions. Contador cheated during the Tour, so only normal he'd have that taken away from him. But the Giro, he won that fair and quare, so imo he should be allowed to keep that victory.

What should have happened is that Contador would have been DQ'ed from the 2010 Tour retroactively, but then be allowed to keep all victories after that. And then he should have been suspended for two full years after the decision was final, so from February 2012 - February 2014.

Retroactive suspensions are bad for the sport, and actually encourage riders to make the legal procedures last as long as possible so that they are forbidden to race for an as short time as possible.

(and sorry for going off-topic

)

AG · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2012, 16:16 »

totally agree SR.

This way, he got to ride, got to win and claim that he wins those races etc ....

and never actually serves his full suspension

ram · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2012, 16:20 »

Aye, have to agree, but that's a different issue. This was just about his sook, straight out of a softcock manual.

Auscyclefan · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2012, 18:38 »

Quote from: Slow Rider on May 05, 2012, 15:20

He didn't cheat during that Giro though. I really dislike the idea of taking away wins by retroactive suspensions. Contador cheated during the Tour, so only normal he'd have that taken away from him. But the Giro, he won that fair and quare, so imo he should be allowed to keep that victory.

What should have happened is that Contador would have been DQ'ed from the 2010 Tour retroactively, but then be allowed to keep all victories after that. And then he should have been suspended for two full years after the decision was final, so from February 2012 - February 2014.

Retroactive suspensions are bad for the sport, and actually encourage riders to make the legal procedures last as long as possible so that they are forbidden to race for an as short time as possible.

(and sorry for going off-topic )

i dont disagree, but the problem is that the incident happened in july 2010 so if the courts were more efficient then we wouldnt have such a problem. After the CAS decision, Scarponi deserved the jersey but he shouldn't have to win it in such a way. I do believe he was stronger than Nibali and it is likely that he would have beaten but who knows for certain. He shouldn't have been at the giro in the first place.

Fleur · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2012, 11:30 »

AG;
No, he should have been there. He was cleared and was therefore free to race.

ram;
As if it's easy to just "suck it up and move on" when it's such a great injustice.

CEM;
Wow, calm down. He's not crying about anything. He's just saying he still sees it as his win. I can only imagine how hard it must be for him. People just take away his whole season and then other people think it's a good idea to scratch open those wounds by organising all sorts of ceremonies.

He didn't cheat, got punished because of some sh*t rule, HE IS THE WINNER

Slow rider;
That would be great, a ban from 2012 to 2014. Even less chance he'll ever win something again.

ram · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2012, 11:31 »

Maybe not suck it up, but definitely shut it up. Shouldn't have ridden anyway.

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2012, 11:44 »

Quote from: Slow Rider on May 05, 2012, 15:20

He didn't cheat during that Giro though. I really dislike the idea of taking away wins by retroactive suspensions. Contador cheated during the Tour, so only normal he'd have that taken away from him. But the Giro, he won that fair and quare, so imo he should be allowed to keep that victory.

What should have happened is that Contador would have been DQ'ed from the 2010 Tour retroactively, but then be allowed to keep all victories after that. And then he should have been suspended for two full years after the decision was final, so from February 2012 - February 2014.

Retroactive suspensions are bad for the sport, and actually encourage riders to make the legal procedures last as long as possible so that they are forbidden to race for an as short time as possible.

(and sorry for going off-topic )

He did not get caught cheating during the Giro, but that does not mean he did not cheat. Unfortunately it is well known how to beat the test. He probably just learnt from his mistake during the tour (lead up to the tour) and did not make another mistake.

I however agree a ban should not include time when the rider has ridden in races. So it should have started from when the decision to ban him was made - time served.

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man · « **Reply #12 on:** May 06, 2012, 11:46 »

Quote from: LaFlorecita on May 06, 2012, 11:30

CEM;
Wow, calm down. He's not crying about anything. He's just saying he still sees it as his win. I can only imagine how hard it must be for him. People just take away his whole season and then other people think it's a good idea to scratch open those wounds by organising all sorts of ceremonies.

He didn't cheat, got punished because of some sh*t rule, HE IS THE WINNER

I was blunt but I certainly was calm when I wrote what I wrote. I have considered the issue and come to that conclusion. He was stripped of the win so he is not the winner.

Fleur · « **Reply #13 on:** May 06, 2012, 12:00 »

Of course CAS chose the retroactive ban option after how long it took them to reach a decision,.

Fleur · « **Reply #14 on:** May 06, 2012, 12:00 »

Quote from: CEM on May 06, 2012, 11:46

I was blunt but I certainly was calm when I wrote what I wrote. I have considered the issue and come to that conclusion. He was stripped of the win so he is not the winner.

So what was all that ranting about crying and cheating about?

Slow Rider · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2012, 12:20 »

Quote from: LaFlorecita on May 06, 2012, 11:30

AG;
No, he should have been there. He was cleared and was therefore free to race.

ram;
As if it's easy to just "suck it up and move on" when it's such a great injustice.

CEM;
Wow, calm down. He's not crying about anything. He's just saying he still sees it as his win. I can only imagine how hard it must be for him. People just take away his whole season and then other people think it's a good idea to scratch open those wounds by organising all sorts of ceremonies.

He didn't cheat, got punished because of some sh*t rule, HE IS THE WINNER

Slow rider;
That would be great, a ban from 2012 to 2014. Even less chance he'll ever win something again.

I understand it's hard to hear these things about your favourite rider, but it's about the principle. If a rider is found to be doping and suspended, he should serve the full suspension. First of all because it is unfair to take away wins that were gained without getting caught doping, both to the rider and the race organisers. Secondly taking away those wins is much less of a punishment for a rider. He did get to ride and win for those years, and in the end say that he still feels like he won (which I do too.. Scarponi will never be the winner of the 2011 Giro for me).
The current procedures encourages riders and national federations (such as the Spanish one in this case) to make sure the cases take as long as possible. And those long cases, retroactive suspensions and reverted wins are hurting cycling, I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

I don't know if Contador got caught doping, got punished because of some 'sh*t rule', or even dopes on a daily basis including during that Giro. I barely know what clenbuterol is, what it does and why a rider would have it in his blood, so I won't judge on his guilt or innocence. I do know that he was assigned a two year suspension, and wether that suspension was justified or not, he only actually serves about half a year of that. And no matter who is the doper, Contador, Valverde, Cunego, even Nibali, if they are assigned a suspension they should serve the full time of it.

Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2012, 04:06 »

Quote from: LaFlorecita on May 06, 2012, 12:00

So what was all that ranting about crying and cheating about?

It was me making a point strongly.

Doping = cheating so Contador has been found to have doped so he cheated.

Crying = whinging, claiming he is the winner of the Giro when it has been taken off of him is just whinging.

Kwibus · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:39 »

Quote from: AG on May 05, 2012, 11:21

its hard. I feel for Alberto, and I loved the way he won.

But, he was caught ... and he should not have been there to win it in the first place.

It's just bloody annoying that it took 1.5 years for the freaking UCI to ban him. That's also unfair.
Just a messed up situation.
Besides that a previous court said he was innocent. So he was free to ride.

Kwibus · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:39 »

Quote from: ram on May 05, 2012, 11:33

Contador should just suck it up and move on. He got banned and it won't help the sport if he wants to hog the headlines.

I agree. He should lay low a bit more, but I also think it's the media that looks for him.

ram · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:17 »

Aye, and it has become pretty major if it gets on the Age. He could've avoided the statement, that's my gripe. It could be anyone, Schleck, Cav, Wiggins, would've still been unnecessary when serving a ban.

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