Velorooms - Cycling Forum

Miscellany => The Dark Side => Topic started by: just some guy on September 20, 2012, 11:42

Title: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on September 20, 2012, 11:42
Could not find a thread

But http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/09/19/actualidad/1348083073_884633.html (http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/09/19/actualidad/1348083073_884633.html)

Charged with a crime against public health, doctors Eufemiano and Yolanda Fuentes and José Luis Merino Batres, cycling team managers Manolo Saiz and Vicente Belda and trainer Ignacio Labarta face a prosecutor's request two years in prison that some special charges increased to four years.

No athlete will sit on the dock, but many cyclists must appear as witnesses to the allegations or defenses. Thus, among the 35 invited, apart from the 13 Civil Guards who were involved in the operation and a dozen experts include riders Alberto Contador, who then competed in the Liberty, Saiz, although, according to the investigation, at no time was involved in doping practices , Jesus Manzano, also a private prosecution; Dario Gadeo, Pedro Diaz Lobato, Ivan Basso and Michele Scarponi, who were sanctioned for doping, plus Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Joseba Beloki, Angel Vicioso, Isidro Nozal, Unai Osa, Jorg Jacksche and Gianpaolo Caruso, who ran in the Liberty and supposedly underwent blood transfusions and other doping methods, such as injections of EPO, testosterone patches or pills anabolic. Many of them have retired from professional competition.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on September 20, 2012, 11:43
can you take the 5th in Spanish law ?

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on September 20, 2012, 11:53
Contador is going to take the stand and perjure himself to defend his doctor
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on September 20, 2012, 11:57
Contador is going to take the stand and perjure himself to defend his doctor

More likely to defend himself


Option 1

have you meet this man - no

option 2

have you meet this man - yes sure he was the team Dr but only for controls. he never gave me any doping products or transfused any of my blood

option 3

Sure we joined the arms race to take it to Armstrong

What odds on option 2
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on September 20, 2012, 12:42
Are those Puerto fridge bags still in existence anywhere? I still hope that someone might pull a repeat of what the Italian federation did to Valverde.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on September 20, 2012, 13:18
Are those Puerto fridge bags still in existence anywhere? I still hope that someone might pull a repeat of what the Italian federation did to Valverde.

Good question, but the answer is probably not in the case of any suspected Spanish Athletes. CONI had to use subterfuge to get hold of Valverde's, the german federation got given Ullrichs in 2007 to do a DNA match, but it seems the spanish have never been too enthusiastic on doing DNA matches on their own riders.

Doubtful.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 22, 2013, 08:24
Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

I did,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html)


Quote
The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 22, 2013, 09:50
MOULAI ‏@MOULACHI
Lundi proch, procès de l'affaire Puerto! 30% des clients de Fuentès étaient cyclistes. Et les 70% restant?? Allez doc, mets toi à table!

GT

Monday proch, Puerto trial of the case! 30% of customers Fuentes were cyclists. And the remaining 70%?? Go doc put you at the table!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 22, 2013, 10:06
Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

I did,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html)

It's interesting to read Jaksche's suggestion that Fuentes was in Germany for the 2006 World Cup.

The German authorities conducted a raid in Goettingen less than a month after the World Cup had ended and the press view at the time was that the target of the raid was supplying drugs to Fuentes via Labarta acting as middleman, who had been arrested in May that year along with four others including Fuentes himself.

The heat was on Fuentes by July, when the World Cup was hosted, and it seems extraordinary that he may have, despite being under investigation, travelled to Germany anyway.

Finally, as far as I am aware, this simple fact is a new development:

Quote
Reports in Spain have said that Fuentes is not denying that the transfusions took place, but his defence will state they were done with top-of-the-range equipment.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 22, 2013, 10:12
It's interesting to read Jaksche's suggestion that Fuentes was in Germany for the 2006 World Cup.

The German authorities conducted a raid in Goettingen less than a month after the World Cup had ended and the press view at the time was that the target of the raid was supplying drugs to Fuentes via Labarta acting as middleman, who had been arrested in May that year along with four others including Fuentes himself.

The heat was on Fuentes by July, when the World Cup was hosted, and it seems extraordinary that he may have, despite being under investigation, travelled to Germany anyway.

Finally, as far as I am aware, this simple fact is a new development:

Quote
Reports in Spain have said that Fuentes is not denying that the transfusions took place, but his defence will state they were done with top-of-the-range equipment.

which makes sense as it is a health issue not doping
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 22, 2013, 14:05
Howman wants other sports investigated too
World Anti Doping Agency David Howman has expressed frustration at the insistence of Spanish authorities that the upcoming Operacion Puerto trial will focus only on cycling, pointing out that many other sports are understood to have been involved too.



Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13762/WADA-frustrated-with-Operacion-Puerto-trials-focus-on-cycling-only.aspx#ixzz2IiH4zWfj (http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13762/WADA-frustrated-with-Operacion-Puerto-trials-focus-on-cycling-only.aspx#ixzz2IiH4zWfj)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on January 22, 2013, 15:40
Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

I did,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html)


I will never, ever, ever forget the time that the Spanish government made cycling look like a filthy sport but protected football and tennis. I hope the rest of the list comes out and tennis has to actually clean its act up. Football won't change, there is too much money in it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on January 22, 2013, 15:59
I will never, ever, ever forget the time that the Spanish government made cycling look like a filthy sport but protected football and tennis. I hope the rest of the list comes out and tennis has to actually clean its act up. Football won't change, there is too much money in it.
didn't they destroy all the evidence though?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: cj2002 on January 22, 2013, 16:11
Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

I did,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html)

As with so many other things, I tend to survive on the potted summary I can glean from Twitter. That article makes very interesting reading, though. I had realised that this spread beyond cycling, but not a) how far beyond cycling (I mean, if even Fat Pat is complaining, that's bad, right?!) and b) how brazen Fuentes was about it all. And for so long...!

And now the Spanish authorities intervened to restrict the case to only cycling... I don't believe they're allowed to get away with that!

</bemusement>
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 22, 2013, 19:46
As with so many other things, I tend to survive on the potted summary I can glean from Twitter. That article makes very interesting reading, though. I had realised that this spread beyond cycling, but not a) how far beyond cycling (I mean, if even Fat Pat is complaining, that's bad, right?!) and b) how brazen Fuentes was about it all. And for so long...!

And now the Spanish authorities intervened to restrict the case to only cycling... I don't believe they're allowed to get away with that!

</bemusement>

Fuentes openly said in an interview that he would be bumped off if he talked about football and I have no reason to disbelieve that. It is my personal hunch that Alberto Leon's "suicide" was not as simple a case as we were told. He was a courier for Fuentes' operation and he may have known too much.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on January 22, 2013, 22:49
Fuentes openly said in an interview that he would be bumped off if he talked about football and I have no reason to disbelieve that. It is my personal hunch that Alberto Leon's "suicide" was not as simple a case as we were told. He was a courier for Fuentes' operation and he may have known too much.

I know he is alleged to have said that if he talked Spain would cease to be world champions at football, but did he really say that they would kill him?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 23, 2013, 10:14
I know he is alleged to have said that if he talked Spain would cease to be world champions at football, but did he really say that they would kill him?

There was an indirect statement of that kind in an interview he gave to As or Marca I think. I'll try to find it.

If I can rediscover it, it will be a volte face from July 2006, when he told El Pais that "What I have to say I'll say. I'll leave nothing out. If I have to tell the truth, even if it hurts, I'll talk." [source (http://elpais.com/diario/2006/07/05/deportes/1152050423_850215.html)]
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 23, 2013, 10:30
There was an indirect statement of that kind in an interview he gave to As or Marca I think. I'll try to find it.

If I can rediscover it, it will be a volte face from July 2006, when he told El Pais that "What I have to say I'll say. I'll leave nothing out. If I have to tell the truth, even if it hurts, I'll talk." [source (http://elpais.com/diario/2006/07/05/deportes/1152050423_850215.html)]

OK, when asked by Le Monde in December 2006 if he had worked with Real Madrid and Barcelona, Fuentes replied: "I can't say. I've received death threats ... I've been threatened three times".

Following the publication of the interview, Fuentes changed his story in Marca, which prompted the headline that the doctor now denied receiving death threats. What Fuentes actually says, however, is something different: "I can't talk about that subject, but the threats do not come from the world of football".

Le Monde was in possession of documents that supposedly proved Fuentes' involvement with football clubs, but the doctor claimed that they were not his work and again issued a denial through which some daylight still passed: "The name of none of these four clubs came from the mouth of Eufemiano Fuentes" but the doctor did allow that he had worked with players from the first and second divisions.

Here's a summary in French from Belgian daily La Dernière Heure (http://www.dhnet.be/sports/football/article/162106/le-dr-fuentes-nie-avoir-ete-menace.html).
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Zam on January 23, 2013, 12:21
JSG i am a dissapoint if it were not for puerto our beloved robo basso could have done the double. I hate puerto for that. :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 25, 2013, 17:05
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/top-riders-to-testify-during-puerto-trial (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/top-riders-to-testify-during-puerto-trial)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 25, 2013, 17:13
so ALberto will really speak in defense of manolo :?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on January 25, 2013, 18:23
I can see it now..

(http://www.dailypeloton.com/article_images/fabio/prev/jorg2.jpg)
Quote from: Jörg Jaksche
Dr Eufemiano Fuentes doped me and many other riders

(http://www.programme-presidentiel.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ivan-basso-controle.jpg)
Quote from: Ivan Basso
Dr Eufemiano Fuentes thought about doping me

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bmm8IOO3gus/TrmpLV3rskI/AAAAAAAADDs/a_uN__R_5nA/s1600/contador.jpg)
Quote from: Alberto Contador
Dr Eufemiano Fuentes doped me, it was a dark time in my career and I only did it to keep up. When I left ONCE in 2006 that was the last time I went into that dark place

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-klc4XX-W5w0/TrnGcwkck7I/AAAAAAAADF8/6BucE0MC4nU/s400/Manolo+Saiz+%25283%2529.jpg)
Quote from: Manolo Sainze
We only ever paid Fuentes for training plans and advice on diet
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on January 25, 2013, 18:27
My personal thought on Alberto, when faced with a court of Law he will admit doping. But will say he stopped at the end of 2006 when he left ONCE (everyone stopped in 2006), and take a six month ban for co-operating.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on January 25, 2013, 21:08
Except that will be his second offense and one which I think is still in the Statute of Limitations (8 years?) so that will be the end of his career for sure. 2nd offense with a 6(+) months duration means the end of Bert surely?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on January 25, 2013, 21:16
nah because it wont actually be a ban. I dont think doping was illegal in spain, and its outside statute but he might take a voluntary six months off to match Levi and the rest. Although, even if he took that six months off from August he will still consider himself the real winner of the vuelta. :D

joking aside, going to be interesting how they all testify, when faced with having to speak under oath.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on January 25, 2013, 21:27
Hasn't Alberto already denied any involvement with Fuentes? I fully expect him to perjure himself.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 25, 2013, 22:16
Hasn't Alberto already denied any involvement with Fuentes? I fully expect him to perjure himself.

So do I.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 25, 2013, 22:18
My personal thought on Alberto, when faced with a court of Law he will admit doping. But will say he stopped at the end of 2006 when he left ONCE (everyone stopped in 2006), and take a six month ban for co-operating.

He won't because of what havy said and because it would completely blow away that last tiny bit of credibility.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 26, 2013, 00:00
he wouldnt even admit to the clen stuff ... I cant see him admitting this time either.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 26, 2013, 10:58
By the way, the fact that Fuentes is not denying transfusions is not new after all. Some research I did the other day showed that his counsel had held that position for at least 12 months already.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 26, 2013, 14:26
I can see it now..

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bmm8IOO3gus/TrmpLV3rskI/AAAAAAAADDs/a_uN__R_5nA/s1600/contador.jpg)


Nice picture :karen
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 26, 2013, 14:29
wash your mouth out AG!

PS you trying to upset Pete?

alberto didn't use clen :cool:
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 26, 2013, 18:52
Luis-Léon Sanchez, come on down. You're next!

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13789/Blanco-Cycling-scrutinizes-Luis-Leon-Sanchezs-past-due-to-reported-links-to-Operacion-Puerto.aspx (http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13789/Blanco-Cycling-scrutinizes-Luis-Leon-Sanchezs-past-due-to-reported-links-to-Operacion-Puerto.aspx)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on January 26, 2013, 19:31
Yep. Even those who escaped at first will be caught eventually, is my opinion.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 26, 2013, 20:15
I do wonder who will be the dam buster of Spain, I have a feeling it is about to go, maybe court induced but maybe not.
Interesting times
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: benotti69 on January 26, 2013, 20:18
Surprised the Dutch FA have not been in touch with Fuentes and set him up in retirement in a former Dutch colony. Worth a world cup, No?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 27, 2013, 00:38
interesting.

I wonder how Scarponi and Basso feel about LLS getting off scott free when they were done out of Peurto
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: mew on January 27, 2013, 01:21
Luis-Léon Sanchez, come on down. You're next!

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13789/Blanco-Cycling-scrutinizes-Luis-Leon-Sanchezs-past-due-to-reported-links-to-Operacion-Puerto.aspx (http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13789/Blanco-Cycling-scrutinizes-Luis-Leon-Sanchezs-past-due-to-reported-links-to-Operacion-Puerto.aspx)

D@mn! I really like Lulu....but he must feel the noose....
OP is not going away

who's next!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on January 27, 2013, 01:59
The Spanish government is still to interested in sweeping this under the rug, no dams will burst and there will be no reform in Spanish sport.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: kabloemski on January 27, 2013, 05:40
D@mn! I really like Lulu....but he must feel the noose....
OP is not going away

who's next!

Yeah I like him too. But like you said....
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 27, 2013, 08:24
Former ONCE riders/entire roster involved in OP, total shock!

Byop :fp not Alberto
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 27, 2013, 09:35
I have a question amongst the banter, if we use Allan Davis as an example, as he has been investigated and found not guilty.

Say Fuentes, names names, and what they did, which at the time is not illegal in Spain, as we know his defence is that there was no crimes against health, ie no one could get sick from transfusions and the like.

The defense proves this, but the world knows what he was upto against the dirty cyclists ( because we all know only cyclists dope, well that the idea from Spain anyway). Can WADA or ASADA  use this to ban Alby ?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 27, 2013, 10:07
I think so, so that would be what, 8 years?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 27, 2013, 10:17
the UCI can ask each rider's national governing body to investigate.  If the offenses are still within the statute of limitations, and any offenses can be proven (including using testimony obtained in this case) then yes, they can be sanctioned.

Just because doping isnt illegal in spain, doesnt mean it is allowable in sport.  Its not illegal in many countries .... US, Australia, UK etc ...

the evidence can still be used
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 27, 2013, 10:17
I think so, so that would be what, 8 years?

I am not so sure as the cui would need to ask the Australian cycling fed to open an investigation, but the evidence may not be forth coming from Spain?

2 years for Ably 1st offence I think,

Others 8 or life.

But again not 100% sure.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 27, 2013, 10:18
I am not so sure as the cui would need to ask the Australian cycling fed to open an investigation, but the evidence may not be forth coming from Spain?

2 years for Ably 1st offence I think,

Others 8 or life.

But again not 100% sure.

wait Alby is Allan davis? :fp ok
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 27, 2013, 10:25
the UCI can ask each rider's national governing body to investigate.  If the offenses are still within the statute of limitations, and any offenses can be proven (including using testimony obtained in this case) then yes, they can be sanctioned.

Just because doping isnt illegal in spain, doesnt mean it is allowable in sport.  Its not illegal in many countries .... US, Australia, UK etc ...

the evidence can still be used

Spain would need to provide the evidence, not sure court notes can be used , maybe they could?

Plus ably would need a fair hearing, would the court notes provide that?

Florry Alby = Allan Davis
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 27, 2013, 10:25
yeah first offense for Alby.

And the spanish werent willing to share before ... but you never know.

We have to remember that they found Alberto not guilty of the clen thing too - so they arent super keen to see him go down, so I dont have a lot of faith in the Spanish anti-doping body.

And alhough they wont be as keen to protect Alby - they also dont want him to talk and take others down with him either.  If he has nothing left to lose, he may just go all "landis" on them    :rolleye
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 27, 2013, 10:28
yeah first offense for Alby.

And the spanish werent willing to share before ... but you never know.

We have to remember that they found Alberto not guilty of the clen thing too - so they arent super keen to see him go down, so I dont have a lot of faith in the Spanish anti-doping body.

And alhough they wont be as keen to protect Alby - they also dont want him to talk and take others down with him either.  If he has nothing left to lose, he may just go all "landis" on them    :rolleye

Which gets me back to my dam buster post,  :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 27, 2013, 10:44
Allan Davis and others were not found not guilty, they were acquitted or, as the Roman law aptly calls it, relaxed. This means that a rock solid causal link could not be established and the outcome is therefore procedural: it does not state that they were innocent.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 27, 2013, 10:47
I dunno about found not guitly.

I didnt think it ever went to arbitration.

They never laid charges as they deemed it not enough evidence.   Way different to being found not guilty.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 27, 2013, 16:01
http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/other-sports/tom-english-fuentes-doping-case-silent-on-football-1-2761603#.UQVMG7PACos.twitter (http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/other-sports/tom-english-fuentes-doping-case-silent-on-football-1-2761603#.UQVMG7PACos.twitter)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 28, 2013, 20:01
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-27/contador-letter-shows-move-to-clear-rider-in-doping-scandal.html (http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-27/contador-letter-shows-move-to-clear-rider-in-doping-scandal.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 28, 2013, 20:07
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/analysis/the-puerto-quagmire-going-nowhere-fast_272934 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/analysis/the-puerto-quagmire-going-nowhere-fast_272934)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 09:19
Andrew Hood ‏@EuroHoody
Just spoke with Spanish anti-doping chief; she said they are pressing that blood bags be released for analysis - judge could decide today

have asked if it is the 58 cyclists or the full 200 will let you know if I get an answer
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 29, 2013, 10:09
Spain v. Fuentes E, Fuentes Y, Labarta, Belda, Saiz - Day One summary

Mostly procedural as expected, a rather dry session and in complete contrast to the media scrum outside the court.

(http://ep01.epimg.net/deportes/imagenes/2013/01/28/actualidad/1359404124_895278_1359404455_noticia_normal.jpg)

The ever dependable Carlos Arriba is covering the story for El Pais and these notes are drawn from his article on the trial (http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/01/28/actualidad/1359402018_090629.html) (ES).

Manzano

Manzano withdrew his statement against Saiz. This was an unusual development though not much importance has been attached to it by journalists. The reason for the withdrawal appears to be that Manzano has been asked to restrict his testimony to the events of 2006.

We must remember that the charges relate only to 2006. If Manzano has nothing to say about Saiz which relates specifically to 2006, his unrestricted testimony would be considered both irrelevant and prejudicial to the respondent.

It is too early to say how beneficial this outcome will be for Saiz' case.

Procedural decisions

Judge Santamaria heard arguments about the admissibility and scheduling of evidence.

She will rule on whether to allow a statement from Tyler Hamilton which closely resembles his USADA affidavit and whether to move Contador's testimony toward the end of the hearing process.

(http://ep01.epimg.net/deportes/imagenes/2013/01/28/actualidad/1359402018_090629_1359403298_sumario_normal.jpg)

Finally, and this is important, the judge is also expected to rule on the admission of blood bag evidence that relates in no small part to those "other sports" we've been hearing about so much. Once again, we must remember that the scope of the charges is quite limited and it is therefore not difficult to appreciate why Judge Serrano, who threw out the case some years ago, did not seem interested at that time in hearing about the identities behind the blood bags.

Santamaria seems more open to it, but it is a delicate argument: when talking about whether or not these people colluded to endanger the public health, does it really matter in the strictest sense to the case (even if it might to observers and the public) to whom the blood had belonged?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Capt_Cavman on January 29, 2013, 10:30
...

Santamaria seems more open to it, but it is a delicate argument: when talking about whether or not these people colluded to endanger the public health, does it really matter in the strictest sense to the case (even if it might to observers and the public) to whom the blood had belonged?

Cheers for the summary.

I find it quite bizarre that a court would not seek to ask those whose health had been endangered, even if they would rather stay quiet about it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 10:34
Cheers for the summary.

I find it quite bizarre that a court would not seek to ask those whose health had been endangered, even if they would rather stay quiet about it.

Government pressure...... 
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 29, 2013, 11:07
Cheers for the summary.

I find it quite bizarre that a court would not seek to ask those whose health had been endangered, even if they would rather stay quiet about it.

Government pressure......

It was always demonstrated to us that you make a legal decision and then you create the reasons for it later. Add to that the rather narrow character of the Roman law and you get these kinds of issues. It's an inflexilbility which people living in countries under common law systems such as Britain and Australia may find frustrating, as do I having seen plenty of both sides.  :D

The judge must try the respondents on the charges, which means that she narrows down the facts to the evidence and that evidence originates from a very short space of time in 2006. Unfortunately, you cannot bring years of doping history into this case.

A strict reading of 'endangering the public health' equally suggests that you should not concern yourself with the identities of people who are not directly involved, either as respondents or witnesses. Yes, it's their blood but they are not named in this case and they would be damaged by it, which you avoid unless it is absolutely necessary, unless it goes to the root of guilt. In this way, the notion of "public health" is as deliberately anonymous as it is general.

These are all matters of jurisprudence and Judge Santamaria's comportment on Day One suggests she may treat the evidence a little more liberally than Serrano did. Trials are associated with finality but it is rare that they satisfy everyone. As a former lawyer, I understand these matters and why they are being applied in this way, but as a fan the outcomes will probably disappoint and frustrate me.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 11:17
Andrew Hood ‏@EuroHoody
Also from judge: Fuentes' computers not evidence; blood and medicines both considered as evidence - Fuentes about to make statement to court
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 29, 2013, 12:59
its certainly going to be interesting.

the thing is - if they are not intending on identifying those who were endangered ... why is Alberto being called to give evidence?

and why not identify others so that they might be called to give evidence about whether or not their health was endangered?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 13:15
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/hamilton-official-puerto-witness-fuentes-admits-doping-athletes-across-sports_272976 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/hamilton-official-puerto-witness-fuentes-admits-doping-athletes-across-sports_272976)

In testimony later Tuesday, Fuentes said he had doped athletes in “all kinds” of sports.

The question of blood bags will be considered over the coming days. The judge ruled that the Spanish anti-doping agency and WADA will have three days to provide the court written documents outlining why they want access to up to 200 bags of blood and plasma that remain in the custody of courts.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 13:16
Daniel Friebe ‏@friebos
Fuentes admits he doped Heras, Botero and Osa. No word yet on whether Eufe was still onboard when Heras won the Brompton World Champs.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 29, 2013, 13:34

If this trial brings us nothing else, it's worth it just for the clarifications that arise when one has only one's own ass on the line.  :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 14:01
from the tweets coming in from various people at the court

it seems Fuentes is slowly unraveling, there will be a lot of stressed people me thinks 
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 29, 2013, 14:30
Andrew Hood ‏@EuroHoody
Fuentes says transfusions were done at hotel in Madrid; prosecutors digging into details of how transfusions unfolded
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 30, 2013, 00:25
cmon with the details ...  :woohoo
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 30, 2013, 08:36
Spain v. Fuentes E, Fuentes Y, Labarta, Belda, Saiz - Day Two summary

Counsel were instructed on how to proceed with questioning and Judge Santamaria ruled that Fuentes' computer would remain outside the scope of evidence.

In his long-anticipated appearance, Fuentes himself spoke at length throughout the afternoon yesterday and his testimony was at times laughable, even if these proceedings are no laughing matter. He stated variously that:

1) he had been in possession of EPO because his daughter had cancer (no idea if this was corroborated) and that any other drugs were for the use of his family,
2) he had doped Heras, Botero and (Unai) Osa,
3) he had treated other sportspeople outside of cycling (football, boxing, athletics)
4) with the exception of the three named above, he had only ever acted as a doctor in sports and had never given any other sort of advice (Hello, Frank Schleck)
5) his sister Yolanda had never been in any way involved in his activities

Hamilton will testify

Tyler Hamilton will give evidence later in the proceedings, ruled Judge Santamaria, and he is expected to do so in person, appearing as a witness for WADA. He will describe the doping regime in the Canary Islands.

WADA wrangles over the remaining blood bags

Carlos Arriba in El Pais mentions that Judge Santamaria did not seem as keen yesterday on the idea of releasing the blood bags to the Spanish anti-doping authority per the request of WADA's counsel. The other parties to the proceedings are the State (i.e. Spain) and the public prosecutor. Interestingly, the State backs the move by WADA but the public prosecutor does not. Judge Santamaria has given WADA three days to compose and submit to her the legal arguments in favour of releaseing the blood bags.

Sources: El Pais, Cyclingnews.com, VeloNation, Telegraph, Le Monde, Twitter
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 30, 2013, 15:48
Spain v. Fuentes E, Fuentes Y, Labarta, Belda, Saiz - Day Three summary

This morning's hearing continued with Fuentes waxing lyrical on the subject he wants the world to believe is his favourite: sports medicine.

He described the equipment he used. He seemed to be very proud of his setup, telling the court that it was the best in the business.

(https://www.beckmancoulter.com/ucm/idc/groups/public/documents/webasset/optima_xpn-lg.jpg)

And this is part of it, a Coulter centrifuge.

Fuentes laid on the science nice and thick because he needed to show the court that he was a responsible expert in the field, thus diminishing the prosecution's case that he had endangered the public health.

Fuentes claimed that reinfused blood did not contain banned substances and the purpose was entirely therapeutic. This holier-than-thou attitude then led him to claim that he had refused to treat (upcoming witness) Jesus Manzano because, he said, he knew the young rider's mother and because Manzano had used cocaine.

The book of names

The critical point in the day came during cross-examination when Fuentes dropped a bomb, stating that he could show the court a book he had containing all the names behind the codes. CONI's (the Italian Olympic Committee) lawyer demanded that Fuentes reveal this book. Judge Santamaria refused point blank and CONI's lawyer protested.

A recess was called.

When the court reconvened, Fuentes' lawyer stated that his client had no objection to revealing the names but that the court had insisted he remain silent on that subject.

It's difficult to assess the truth of the statement: certainly Judge Santamaria has ruled out the naming of names but had she allowed it, I doubt very much Fuentes would have revealed all of the names. Despite denying it later, he has claimed in the past that he received death threats if he talked too much.

Equally, in a strictly legal sense it is difficult to appreciate why it would help his case to do so, since it would grossly increase the perceived dimensions of his operation such that the "public" in "endangering public health" would surely be writ large by such revelations.

What is not at issue, despite a lot of moaning and journalistic misapprehension of due process at the time, is Judge Santamaria's decision. Disappointing as it will be for sports fans desperate to hear the truth, it is legally correct to withhold the names because:

a) these people have no legal interest in the case (i.e. they are neither claimant nor defendant),
b) knowledge of their identities is not essential to proving of guilt on the part of Fuentes et al,
b) knowledge of their identites has no relevance to the charge of "endangering public health"

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/086fde1174344a3697b1163041e98e27/320x.jpg)
Fuentes (left) and Labarta yesterday, with Belda and Saiz in the foreground

Exit Fuentes, Enter Labarta

As I mentioned on Twitter during the day, if Fuentes' puffed up self-importance gave the press rich pickings, José-Ignacio Labarta was the austerity package. Labarta followed Fuentes not long after the recess.

The former Communidad Valenciana assistant manager was monosyllabic at the best of times and, despite confirming that he had worked in cycling for 28 years, he claimed to have no knowledge whatsoever of whether or not his team or other cycling teams used drugs or conducted blood transfusions.

The pedestrian tone was alleviated momentarily by the appearance during the questioning of the "gas bus", a peloton codeword cited by Manzano some years ago for that Lance favourite Actovegin. Again, Labarta claimed not to know anything and did not find it strange that, even though he claimed not to have had regular direct dealings with Fuentes, he had in his possession a parcel intended for Fuentes at the time of the Guardia Civil raids.

CONI's plucky lawyer demanded to know in cross-examination if Labarta had seen the doctor working with anyone else but cyclists. Already limiting himself to yes/no responses, Labarta now exercised his right to refuse an answer. So ended his testimony.

Come back Friday

Take a rest, folks, and why not strap on an extra blood bag for recovery, for the case is now adjourned until Friday.

We will hear Saiz and Belda then and, if they should turn out to be as taciturn as Labarta, we should at least be able to look forward to hearing a decision on whether Judge Santamaria will release those anonymous blood bags to the Spanish anti-doping authority per the request from WADA.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on January 30, 2013, 17:59
Really appreciate the summaries L'arri. Fuentes seems like quite a character, you can tell he loves being the centre of attention. As far as this case goes I think we are all much less interested in seeing him go to prison than we are in seeing his entire client list revealed through some means or another.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 30, 2013, 18:01
Really appreciate the summaries L'arri. Fuentes seems like quite a character, you can tell he loves being the centre of attention. As far as this case goes I think we are all much less interested in seeing him go to prison than we are in seeing his entire client list revealed through some means or another.

Thanks, jambalaya! :hug

Since Judge Santamaria has cut off any chance to hear the "little book" evidence on good legal grounds, we can only hope she agrees Friday to release the blood bags to the Spanish anti-doping authority per the request of WADA. Should this happen, I think it would entail a completely separate (possibly even USADA-like) process but I'm not familiar with the (almost certainly Spain-specific) ruleset that she would apply in that regard, since it isn't part of the current case.

Lot of "tweeples" complaining about a cover-up re the "little book", but with my lawyer hat on, I'm afraid the judge was right. I hope I made that clear above. I don't have much expertise in Roman law systems but this seems like common sense judicial conservatism to me. Santamaria must ensure that the hearing runs according to the proper due process.

This is a court of law, not a court of popular opinion. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 31, 2013, 01:24
Thanks for the summaries larri

Will be interesting to see if, at the end of the trial she directs all evidence to be handed over to Spanish anti doping ... And whether or not they do anything with it either
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 01, 2013, 11:28
Operación Puerto trial continues today. Saiz is in the dock and has named Katusha rider Angel Vicioso as a client of Fuentes.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 01, 2013, 17:16
Spain v. Fuentes E, Fuentes Y, Labarta, Belda, Saiz - Day Four summary

I think that the Attention Deficit Disorder press of our times is beginning to lose interest in Caso Fuentes given today's paucity of sources. Or maybe the brigades of valiant journos don't plan to stay in Madrid over the weekend. Pity, it's a beautiful city, as The Hitch will tell you.

Now that the doctor has had his day in court and Labarta sent everyone halfway to sleep yesterday, I suppose I ought to forgive them. But I won't, for today's session heard Manolo Saiz, a man who is for some the bête noire and for others the pariah of 90s-Noughties cycling, a man who hid his teams' institutional doping activities in plain sight for years and was then banished to the far recesses of peletonic memory.

Liberty uninsured

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02468/Manolo_Saiz_2468455b.jpg)

Perhaps it was a mistranslation on the part of the Telegraph's Jacquelin Magnay but she quoted this from Saiz:

Quote
There are 280 days a year in which I have no control over cyclists (source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9842248/Manolo-Saiz-admits-three-Liberty-Seguros-Wurth-riders-worked-with-Operation-Puerto-doctor-Eufemiano-Fuentes.html))

If it is indeed accurate, Saiz' use of the present tense speaks volumes on behalf of the man who in 1998 claimed to have "stuffed a finger up the Tour's arse" but who, eight years later, found his company Active Bay stripped of its ProTour licence. Perhaps Saiz still thinks he's running a team, like Puerto and Active Bay only happened yesterday, that it was only a minor setback.

Saiz always threatened to return to public prominence in cycling but not this way.

This bearlike Cantabrian knows more than most about what happened to pro cycling as it matured into a sport of drugs and money. He had a ringside seat, or more accurately a team car seat, throughout almost the whole period and he (allegedly) had nearly exclusive access to the most sophisticated doping programme west of the Alps.

All he gave us today were Roberto Heras (http://www.dopeology.org/people/Roberto_Heras/), Angel Vicioso (http://www.dopeology.org/people/Angel_Vicioso/) and Marcos Serrano (http://www.dopeology.org/people/Marcos_Serrano/), all of whom graced the Puerto lists. Heras was busted later and both he and Serrano are out of the sport so they present no threat to anyone's reputation.

However, Vicioso may have cause for concern. Also a Puerto list nominee but never pursued or sanctioned, the affair nevertheless damaged the Spaniard's career and he only returned to World Tour level in 2012 with Katusha. With the Russian team under pressure and attempting to join the MPCC, it may want to make a symbolic example of a non-essential rider and now confirmed doper.

(http://www.cadenaser.com/recorte/20130201csrcsrdep_7/LCO668/Ies/Vicente-Belda-llegando-juzgados.jpg)

For whom the Belda tolls

Former Comunidad Valenciana manager Vicente Belda is one of the few individuals who holds the distinction of being involved in doping-related activities both as a rider and as staff. He's been around a lot longer than, say, the anti-doping efforts of WADA which, he noted today "has become fashionable lately."

Belda told the court that he had known Fuentes since 1995, when he was a directeur sportif at Kelme. During the time covered by the charges, Belda implied that he had no culpability because the Comunidad Valenciana team's code forbade riders to visit doctors not directly employed by the team.

This was the same story as that offered earlier in the week by Yolanda Fuentes, whose brother did not work for the team and was therefore forbidden fruit. Belda wouldn't rule out the possibility that some riders had strayed from the fold but if it had happened, he of course had no knowledge of it, echoing the earlier sentiments of Saiz.

The Valencian's testimony also sought to damage the credibility of Jesus Manzano, as Fuentes had tried to do on Tuesday. Recounting a couple of incidents involving a girl and high jinks with the late José Maria Jimenez, Belda suggested that Manzano was irresponsible and unprofessional.

Puerto had "ruined my life", concluded Belda. "They took away my right to work, I've been slandered and hounded ... All this has brought such serious problems for me and my family."

Fuentes: I have a right to lie

With a circumspect Saiz and Belda ending on a dark note, it was left to the ever-dependable entertainer Doctor Fuentes to enliven the journos' impossible mission. Provocatively, he claimed that he had "a right to lie, to not tell the truth". Asked what certain initials meant in the evidence of the Guardia Civil, Eufe smirked and said "it could be brand of good wine".
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 01, 2013, 17:39
Cheers Laz

If found guilty on all charges, what's the maximum sanction Fuentes faces?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 01, 2013, 17:47
Cheers Laz

If found guilty on all charges, what's the maximum sanction Fuentes faces?

Two years imprisonment, as far as I know, ram. I would say a fine too probably. He needs to be struck off as a doctor too - I don't know how the medical profession is regulated in Spain, but that must happen!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 01, 2013, 18:05
Cheers. Yeah, I can't envisage a situation where he still has the right to be a practitioner after this (then again, if no licenses, how can it be done? Prescriptions?).
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 01, 2013, 18:27
Cheers. Yeah, I can't envisage a situation where he still has the right to be a practitioner after this (then again, if no licenses, how can it be done? Prescriptions?).

Yes, I think that's about the size of it. I remember a case years ago in which a (banned) doctor had a nurse steal the gear because he couldn't write prescriptions. It happens a lot in countries where the medical profession gets a loose leash.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on February 01, 2013, 18:59
Weren't we supposed to hear about blood bags today?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 01, 2013, 19:16
Weren't we supposed to hear about blood bags today?

I think today was the deadline for WADA to submit its case for handing over the blood bags. Assuming that was submitted on time, the decision will come after the judge has read it. And she may want to take the weekend to do so. There may also be some legal research to do. Contrary to what many people believe, judges do work long hours. Twelve hours a week in court is not the end of the story. ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 04, 2013, 02:20
(http://www.independent.ie/independent.ie/images/small-logos/logo-independentdublin.png)
Operation Puerto becomes Operation Omerta

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/operation-puerto-becomes-operation-omerta-3375803.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/operation-puerto-becomes-operation-omerta-3375803.html)

Quote
Who really wants that stone upturned? Easier to look the other way. When the name of a Spanish tennis player was raised, the star threatened to sue. Operation Puerto effectively died some years ago with Operation Omerta taking its place and, for those with most to lose, the wheels are grinding slowly and that's the way they'd like it to remain.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on February 04, 2013, 02:39
good article.  and good questions
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 04, 2013, 07:41
Real Sociedad's ex-president has implicated his club in PUerto. Claims he found in past audits. Inaki Badiola was president in 2008. Finished surprise second in 03 they did.

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/02/04/primera/1359939333_219986.html (http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/02/04/primera/1359939333_219986.html)

Twas an Ernst and Young audit. And he says that the team didn't involve in any illegal medical practises in 2008/09.

Post Merge: February 04, 2013, 07:52
PWC is the place to be for a dodgy audit. Any fraud here has them....
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 04, 2013, 10:45
Real Sociedad's ex-president has implicated his club in PUerto. Claims he found in past audits. Inaki Badiola was president in 2008. Finished surprise second in 03 they did.

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/02/04/primera/1359939333_219986.html (http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/02/04/primera/1359939333_219986.html)

Twas an Ernst and Young audit. And he says that the team didn't involve in any illegal medical practises in 2008/09.

Post Merge: February 04, 2013, 07:52
PWC is the place to be for a dodgy audit. Any fraud here has them....

Isn't Ernst & Young the UCI's auditor? I believe so...

Quote
Cyclingnews has received a letter sent today, December 11, from the Katusha Team to the UCI strongly protesting their denial of a WorldTour licence for the upcoming season. The team indicated that their original application was denied for financial reasons, but that in their hearing on November 22, 2012, the team had addressed the issue via requested information and documents and that an Ernst and Young representative present at the hearing found this new material sufficient.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 04, 2013, 10:51
Don't think one can be tried for the same offence twice.

Post Merge: February 04, 2013, 10:52
Isn't Ernst & Young the UCI's auditor? I believe so...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion)
I didn't know at all. Just that two massive frauds in India had PWC audits.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 04, 2013, 12:27
Peter Cossins ‏@petercossins
The big news in this morning's Puerto proceedings: Guardia Civil officer says Manolo Saiz was "el Gordo" - "The Fat Man"
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 04, 2013, 14:51
Spain v. Fuentes E, Fuentes Y, Labarta, Belda, Saiz - Day Five summary

Throughout last week, all five respondents in the Puerto case gave their own accounts of the events of 2006 and, with the notable exception of Eufemiano Fuentes himself, they pretended ignorance or revealed as little as they could.

Now came the turn of the Guardia Civil, whose officers came to the stand armed with facts and figures.

Perhaps we would learn more in the course of today's testimony than we did all of last week, but alas it was not to be:

They woz there

The Guardia Civil was in possession, it said, of photographs showing the comings and goings of Santiago Botero, Jorg Jaksche, Oscar Sevilla and Constantino Zaballa at Fuentes' premises.

(http://cdn4.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net//photos/2005/aug05/sansebastian05/spain-cycling-clasicasa-34_220.jpg)

The ACTH headache

The officer then described the procurement by Labarta of Synacthen, a product whose active ingredient is Tetracosactide (http://www.dopeology.org/products/Tetracosactide/), a synthetic hormone that operates in the same way as the body's natural steroid hormone to stimulate the production and release of cortisol in the body.

(http://www.apteka-mir.ru/sites/default/files/poison/synacthen.jpg)

Synacthen was in use in cycling throughout the 1980s and continues to be a common ingredient in the institutional doping cocktail, having popped up in the US Postal, T-Mobile and Landuyt cases. Side effects from long term use can be severe and some riders report that it made them feel ill rather than helped them to recover.

Huerto: low hanging fruit

(http://static2.hln.be/static/photo/2013/0/6/5/20130202103745/media_xll_5523680.jpg)
-- Don't get used to pictures like this in 2013 ;)

According to the Guardia Civil, Labarta obtained Synacthen from Germany for Fuentes and it was to be prescribed to 'Huerto', recently identified as Luis Léon Sanchez. Presumably, this ties in with the 2006 police raid on Marcus Choina, the anaesthetist from Goettingen.

Tell me something I don't know

The Guardia Civil confirmed that the documents seized from Fuentes concerned Kelme, Comunidad Valenciana and Liberty Seguros and that there is no obvious identity link between the doping calendars and the blood bags. No identities were revealed.

The officer then stated that no rider interviewed had stated that they got sick from doping but he supposed this was due to the fact that they feared suspension.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 04, 2013, 16:14
Isn't Ernst & Young the UCI's auditor? I believe so...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/katusha-perplexed-at-2013-worldtour-exclusion)

They are, but E&Y allegedly are independant. They are responsible in part for approving the world tour licences. Well, they approve the financial (and ethical side) i beleive.

Allegedly they are solely responsible on financial side, if they say no, uci cannot award licence.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 04, 2013, 16:21
English Version of the Sociodad article up now.

Quote
The former Real Sociedad president Iñaki Badiola told a shareholders' meeting in 2008 that the club had purchased doping products using laundered money before he took over.

The meeting, recorded on video and published by ASTV, shows Badiola declaring that the club paid Eufemiano Fuentes, the doctor at the heart of the Operation Puerto scandal and court case, over 300,000 euros for doping products.

"327,443 euros has been spent annually during x number of years in payment to Eufemanio Fuentes, undeclared," said Badiola.

"Including the year La Real finished second. Eufemiano Fuentes, from Operation Puerto, was the man who provided the medicine. We've been buying strange medicines for 342,000 euros per year. It's ugly business."

Badiola listed the previous four presidents between March 2001 to January 2008 - José Luis Astiazarán (the current president of the Spanish Football League, the LFP), Miguel Fuentes, María de la Peña and Juan Larzabal - and said that during each person's presidency they found expenditure that was not accounted for.

He then explained: "Real Sociedad acquired medicines for 328,000 euros that were not listed in the accounts. This means there is another type of accounting at practice here - there is no supporting documentation, no bills or delivery details that can be identified. We know what types of medicine they are and we won't get involved in what they were or weren't used for. We know of the entries in the other accounts, the days payments were made and the people who were paid."

*es Link (http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/02/04/primera/1359939333_219986.html)
*uk link (http://www.as.com/english/articulo/fuentes-was-paid-342000-euros/20130204dasdenspo_4/Ten)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on February 04, 2013, 20:10
The keeper of Real Sociedad from 2001 till 2004 says he never saw anything suspect..

But then comes this hilarious part;

Quote
"Ik heb bij teamgenoten ook nooit iets verdachts gezien, ben ook nooit door een dokter benaderd om iets te gebruiken. En ik heb nooit gemerkt dat een preparaat mijn prestaties bevorderde. We kregen bij Sociedad weleens een infuus in de kleedkamer, voor of na de wedstrijd. Maar ik kan me niet voorstellen dat dat een verboden middel was. Het lijkt me niet dat je zoiets in de openbaarheid van de kleedkamer doet."

"I have never seen something suspect by other teammates, I have never been approached to use something either. And I have never noticed that a 'preparation' improved my performance. At Sociedad we received an infuse once in a while, before or after the game. But I cant imagine that it were prohibited substances. It doesnt seem likely to me that you do it in the publicity of the dressing room.



Doesnt know what is in the infuses but surely it couldnt be dope, :').
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 04, 2013, 20:15
The keeper of Real Sociedad from 2001 till 2004 says he never saw anything suspect..

But then comes this hilarious part;

"I have never seen something suspect by other teammates, I have never been approached to use something either. And I have never noticed that a 'preparation' improved my performance. At Sociedad we received an infuse once in a while, before or after the game. But I cant imagine that it were prohibited substances. It doesnt seem likely to me that you do it in the publicity of the dressing room.



Doesnt know what is in the infuses but surely it couldnt be dope, :').

Might be mates with Neil Stephens :lol
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on February 04, 2013, 21:24
Remarkably naive, that.
I wonder whether Sociedad is used as a scapegoat of sorts here. Puerto himself said that he'd been involved in bigger football teams - is Sociedad the Bertagnolli of Spanish football?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on February 05, 2013, 00:47
this is not doping - but is interesting all the same

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/europol-uncovers-vast-matchfixing-network-20130205-2dv4h.html (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/europol-uncovers-vast-matchfixing-network-20130205-2dv4h.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 05, 2013, 02:16
Neither was Sociedad tbf. An ex president implicated his own club. So one's got to hope that Fiorentino Perez defrauded Ramon Calderon in some manner, or the latter wants another term right away.

And does anything in Spain generate revenue apart from Barca and Real Madrid?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 05, 2013, 09:53
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/02/04/actualidad/1360015308_958211.html (http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/02/04/actualidad/1360015308_958211.html)

more football plus mention of Madrid ?????
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 05, 2013, 13:07
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doubts-over-health-standards-used-by-puerto-defendants (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doubts-over-health-standards-used-by-puerto-defendants)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on February 05, 2013, 16:21
I find it hard to believe that Real Madrid or Barca will be thrown to the lions.
Which was my point. ;)
It's a semi-open secret that Fuentes "helped" the really big fish in Spain, both in football and tennis. Sociedad simply have no lobby (or not big enough a lobby), so they're sacrificed on the altar of football as a doping-free sport.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on February 05, 2013, 16:35
Neither was Sociedad tbf. An ex president implicated his own club. So one's got to hope that Fiorentino Perez defrauded Ramon Calderon in some manner, or the latter wants another term right away.

And does anything in Spain generate revenue apart from Barca and Real Madrid?

Hardly any European football teams operate without a deficit, probably not Real and Barca either, it reminds me of a quote I heard ones, "The fastest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and buy a football club."
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 05, 2013, 17:00
It was just a jibe at the Spanish economy rather than how the clubs are run. And hey, I used revenue rather than net profit for a reason
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on February 05, 2013, 22:51
It was just a jibe at the Spanish economy rather than how the clubs are run. And hey, I used revenue rather than net profit for a reason

Must have misread that, anyhow I guess it could be argued that the wealth of the owner has a lot to do with it as well, if the owner won't pay then the truth will get out. So unless the owner is broke the truth will be contained.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 07, 2013, 13:05
Just in case anyone was wondering what happened to the daily updates, I stopped doing them for the moment because they've not really been very interesting since the Guardia Civil took over giving testimony. Basically just restatements of what we already know, no revelations of any real significance.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 07, 2013, 16:29
Dim

Fabs = Luigi

T Dekker = clasicom...... Luigi

Dekker ousted himself with the nickname about 3 weeks ago.

Hope that makes sense on the tablet too hard yo cut and paste
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 07, 2013, 16:32
Dim

Fabs = Luigi

T Dekker = clasicom...... Luigi

Dekker ousted himself with the nickname about 3 weeks ago.

Hope that makes sense on the tablet too hard yo cut and paste

old german articles ive just been through have dekker being confirmed as clasicomano, and not clasicomano luigi.ive just had about a thousand webpages open and lost the link though
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 07, 2013, 16:32
're Dekker http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3381753/2013/01/23/Thomas-Dekker-was-klant-bij-Spaanse-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml?utm_source=scherm1&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=Cookiecheck (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3381753/2013/01/23/Thomas-Dekker-was-klant-bij-Spaanse-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml?utm_source=scherm1&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=Cookiecheck)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on February 07, 2013, 16:33
Lulu is reported to be Huerta http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-blanco-investigate-luis-leon-sanchezs-links-to-operacion-puerto (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-blanco-investigate-luis-leon-sanchezs-links-to-operacion-puerto)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 07, 2013, 16:39
're Dekker http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3381753/2013/01/23/Thomas-Dekker-was-klant-bij-Spaanse-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml?utm_source=scherm1&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=Cookiecheck (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3381753/2013/01/23/Thomas-Dekker-was-klant-bij-Spaanse-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml?utm_source=scherm1&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=Cookiecheck)

theres a lot of disagreement on this one, the trouble is, Luigi is not listed as a sole name in the puerto nicknames that I can find.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 07, 2013, 16:42
Ok weird Dekker saying it is him

Makes more sense for fabs
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 07, 2013, 16:54
Ok weird Dekker saying it is him

Makes more sense for fabs

I cant work out if hes saying it, or if the reporter in teh article is saying it. Trouble is, theres no reference to solely Luigi anywhere in the peurto files (unless larry can find something), and german media reports from 2009 all pointing to classicomano being dekker. I will put a footnote on the two names.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Arb on February 07, 2013, 16:55
Dekker doesn't confirm it afaik, it's other "sources".
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 07, 2013, 17:23
Ok, on Classicomano Luigi, this spanish article naming cancellara clearly states him as rider 24 or classicomo luigi. http://www.ciclismo2005.blogspot.nl/2013/02/hamilton-identifica-luigi.html (http://www.ciclismo2005.blogspot.nl/2013/02/hamilton-identifica-luigi.html)
An earlier article from 2010 cites dekker as clasicomano http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/doping-im-radsport-razzia-und-neue-tests-1.687240&usg=ALkJrhinKPhZf8XahWdwDklgAGrB5vvmHQ (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/doping-im-radsport-razzia-und-neue-tests-1.687240&usg=ALkJrhinKPhZf8XahWdwDklgAGrB5vvmHQ) however, worth noting, that they cite Dekker as being 24 years old, which may be were some of the confusion has arisen from.

Cecchini coached at csc, Hamilton, Fabian Cancellara, Matti Breschel, Michael Blaudzun and Nicki Sorensen
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 07, 2013, 22:57
Interesting stuff from Spain.

via spanish tweeter

In Spain it is thought MZD to be Eddy Mazzoleni
Jandro is Alejandro...and still works in cycling...as assistant in Astana (Alejandro Vazquez)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on February 08, 2013, 02:39
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/spain-to-examine-soccer-doping-allegations-20130208-2e26h.html (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/spain-to-examine-soccer-doping-allegations-20130208-2e26h.html)

at least mainstream media are starting to pick up on it.

the first paragraph doesnt give me much hope though

Quote
Spain's anti-doping agency is looking into allegations that doping practices have spread beyond cycling and into football.

its still all cyclings fault of course  :rolleye
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ram on February 08, 2013, 03:20
Contador was cleared from the Puerto investigation cos of no actionable evidence, no? What can he provide as an eyewitness to this case going by those standards? Isn't calling him as eyewitness in conflict to the clearance? Or is he testifying about Liberty, and that can only be methods. When is his testimony?

Not expecting him to say anything, but questions...
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ansimi on February 08, 2013, 05:01
Contador was cleared from the Puerto investigation cos of no actionable evidence, no? What can he provide as an eyewitness to this case going by those standards? Isn't calling him as eyewitness in conflict to the clearance? Or is he testifying about Liberty, and that can only be methods. When is his testimony?

Not expecting him to say anything, but questions...

Hmmmm. maybe they invited Berto so he can pose for pictures and sign autographs?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 08, 2013, 06:21
Hmmmm. maybe they invited Berto so he can pose for pictures and sign autographs?

Maybe, but he was not there or ever meet Fuentes so how would he know if it clean, odd witness for the defence,

Maybe get will admit ..... sorry just a dream
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: ansimi on February 08, 2013, 06:53
Some of the code names are cute or clever and some are just so dull and obvious. If I ever need a secret code name, I'll be sure to come up with something fun and not easily linked to me.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 08, 2013, 07:58
couple of things

1st  time I have seen Marco Pantini´s name involved in all thins, must have missed seems a strange fit do we have more details about the whens why etc

also "Luigi" Cecchini went no doping what year was that ? well no hands on himself  ;) referred out it seems
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 10:17
José Been ‏@TourDeJose
#Fuentes update: Jaksche at the stand now. “Fuentes could provide white powder which would result in a non-positive test.”
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on February 11, 2013, 10:19
ram ansimi jsg Alberto will testify in defense of Saiz so will say something along the lines of - He didn't introduce me to Fuentes, didn't force me to dope etc
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 11:45
Peter Cossins ‏@petercossins
Fuentes offered a "buy one get the next one half price" offer on blood bags. According to Jaksche 1 one cost 4000 euros, 2 cost 6000
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 11:59
Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Jörg Jaksche is testifying in OP today. Saying he met Fuentes for the first time in Jan 2005. He got; EPO, GH, IGF-1 & Blood transfusions.

Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Jaksche said he used Dr. Choina during the Tour 2005 and says Choina was "Fuentes' colaborator in Germany". Choina's wife had a pharmacy.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 12:05
ok so Google and Dopeology nothing anyone ?

who is  Dr. Choina ?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 12:23
ok so Google and Dopeology nothing anyone ?

who is  Dr. Choina ?

Here we go thanks to twitter

@inrng  @festinagirl @mrconde


   German doctor under probe in Spanish doping scandal (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2006-08-17-german-doctor-probe_x.htm)

http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=4482 (http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php?id=4482)

Markus Choina
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 12:34
weird I put Choina name  in google - http://www.dopeology.org/people/Marcus_Choina/ (http://www.dopeology.org/people/Marcus_Choina/)

Larri I spelt his name correctly put in his last name and your site did not take me anywhere ?????
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 13:36
Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Jaksche makes sure to point out that Dr. Cecchini never gave him any illegal drugs. Only training plans.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 14:05
Sports doctor Eufemiano Fuentes used a page of the Tour de France's official guide to plan where riders would have blood infusions during cycling's most prestigious race, a German competitor testified on Monday.
Joerg Jaksche, 36, who raced on the Liberty Seguros team in 2005 and 2006, told a court in Madrid that Fuentes circled a map of France where the performance-enhancing infusions would take place. There were so many circles "you could hardly see France," Jaksche said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/doctor-used-tour-map-to-plan-doping-20130211-2e9a5.html#ixzz2KbDgsBkq (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/doctor-used-tour-map-to-plan-doping-20130211-2e9a5.html#ixzz2KbDgsBkq)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 14:10
"Manolo Saiz controlled things" (http://elpais.com/diario/2006/12/12/deportes/1165878003_850215.html)

an old article just to remind yo of some early statements of future witnesses
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 14:16
Jaksche provides damning testimony against Fuentes and Saiz (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jaksche-provides-damning-testimony-against-fuentes-and-saiz)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 11, 2013, 14:51
Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Basso about the blood extracted in 2005. "My intention was to use it in the Tour 2006" - which he never got to do.


but to have bags ready and healthy you need to put bags back and most likely micro dose EPO to keep yo at a level to compete

me thinks the wheels may fall off the Basso train
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on February 11, 2013, 22:07
Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Basso about the blood extracted in 2005. "My intention was to use it in the Tour 2006" - which he never got to do.


but to have bags ready and healthy you need to put bags back and most likely micro dose EPO to keep yo at a level to compete

me thinks the wheels may fall off the Basso train

Easy you take it out in the off season, and you re infuse them at the same time when you pull out fresh blood to keep racing condition, then you micro dose EPO to make your old to new blood cell ratio believable. And you avoid using other peoples blood and getting caught like Landis.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 12, 2013, 11:16

8m Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Joseba Beloki is now giving his statement. Says knows who Fuentes is but that he has never worked with him.


Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
Document 688 is Beloki's suspected "doping" calendar from Fuentes, having Beloki's phone number on it. Beloki says it isn't his race program
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2013, 12:19
Orla Chennaoui ‏@SkyOrla
Manzano claims he was administered dog and cow medicine, and blood bags were smuggled to the Tour in Don Simon wine boxes.
 

9m José Been ‏@TourDeJose
#Fuentes update. Kelme DS asked riders to donate money for the messenger pigeon to transport drugs through France!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2013, 20:24
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/manzano-details-kelmes-doping-test-methods_274648 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/manzano-details-kelmes-doping-test-methods_274648)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2013, 20:48
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manzano-delivers-shocking-evidence-at-puerto-trial (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manzano-delivers-shocking-evidence-at-puerto-trial)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 16, 2013, 11:29
Old news I think but NRC

Vandaag in NRC: Marco Pantani, Michele Bartoli, Romans Vainsteins en Fränk Schleck waren klant bij Fuentes.

Via thijs zonnerveld
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on February 16, 2013, 16:31
Yes. Now posted on his twitter.

Pantani's schedule in 2003: Codename: Panticosa
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Marco-Pantani.jpg)

Bartoli's schedule in 2002: Codename: Sansone
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Sanson-2002.jpg)

Bartoli's schedule in 2003: Codename: Sansone
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Sanson-2003.jpg)

Vainstein's Schedule in 200x?: Codename: VAINS
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Vans.jpg)



Also the part on Amigo de Birillo, Zonneveld says Basso was one of the most loyal Fuentes costumers and explains Birillo was the codename for his dog. When his teammate and friend Fränk Schleck went to Fuentes his name was easy; "Amigo de Birillo".

From conversations with other Fuentes costumers, no names publiced, it confirms that Schleck was costumer of Fuentes and also a source that is close to him directly confirms it. That same direct source states that Andy was not a costumer of Fuentes.




http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/16/vier-codenamen-arts-fuentes-gekraakt-bekijk-origineel-dopingschema-pantani/ (http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/16/vier-codenamen-arts-fuentes-gekraakt-bekijk-origineel-dopingschema-pantani/)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 17, 2013, 01:40
And Tyler from my stuff here. I have more, just gradually adding it

I think this is 2002-2003 as the Tour started on the 5th that year.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 18, 2013, 00:35

Bartoli's schedule in 2003: Codename: Sansone
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Sanson-2003.jpg)

Vainstein's Schedule in 200x?: Codename: VAINS
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Vans.jpg)



Also the part on Amigo de Birillo, Zonneveld says Basso was one of the most loyal Fuentes costumers and explains Birillo was the codename for his dog. When his teammate and friend Fränk Schleck went to Fuentes his name was easy; "Amigo de Birillo".

From conversations with other Fuentes costumers, no names publiced, it confirms that Schleck was costumer of Fuentes and also a source that is close to him directly confirms it. That same direct source states that Andy was not a costumer of Fuentes.




http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/16/vier-codenamen-arts-fuentes-gekraakt-bekijk-origineel-dopingschema-pantani/ (http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/16/vier-codenamen-arts-fuentes-gekraakt-bekijk-origineel-dopingschema-pantani/)
\Lot of dispute about Vains.

Jaksche admitted to being Bella, Jorge, JJ, Vains, and Vans
The code number for Vains is 20, the same as Bella.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 18, 2013, 08:44
Vainstein's Schedule in 200x?: Codename: VAINS
(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Vans.jpg)

It's 2003. If you check the dates of the GTs marked on the calendar, they match those of the 2003 editions.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 18, 2013, 13:30
Spanish anti-doping chief promises to try to identify Operacion Puerto clients after trial ends (http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13970/Spanish-anti-doping-chief-promises-to-try-to-identify-Operacion-Puerto-clients-after-trial-ends.aspx)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 19, 2013, 15:09
ive moved the contador discussion into the contador thread, as some interesting points raised, but better there than here
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 15:45
Which Phonak helped Hamilton out in 2004 ?

BB was put back in during the tdf , by team Dr doing Fuentes a favour?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 19, 2013, 16:49
Angel Vicioso has apparently gone missing, even the guarda dont know where he is. He is due to testify on friday.

Being reported that AC wont be required to testify on the 22nd (same day as vicioso) as planned. He was being called by Manolo's legal team. Either they figure they may as well protect AC from lying under oath, or Manolo has finally realised that even Alberto defending him wont stop the huge pile of crap thats headed for him courtesy of Jaksche and Hamilton.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 17:17
Which Phonak helped Hamilton out in 2004 ?

BB was put back in during the tdf , by team Dr doing Fuentes a favour?

who was the German Dr at the 2004 with Phonak ?

I think Hamilton just outed him

Quote
Andrew Hood ‏@EuroHoody
Says it was a German doctor on Phonak; bag had "41-42" - judge pressing for more details, if Fuentes was in France at time?

I can not find a German Dr on Larri´s list for Phonak and Google not helping
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on February 19, 2013, 17:57
I cant help but think Contador is spared once again by not having to testify. Mostlikely nothing bad wouldve happened for him, but this basically guarantees it and if it doesnt then it wouldve been found out regardless.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on February 19, 2013, 18:18
Contador has dodged a massive bullet there. There would have been no new revelations from his testimony because he would have simply denied everything, the danger would come several years down the line. Perjuring yourself almost always helps in the short term but is very dangerous in the long term
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 19, 2013, 18:34
Which Phonak helped Hamilton out in 2004 ?

BB was put back in during the tdf , by team Dr doing Fuentes a favour?

who was the German Dr at the 2004 with Phonak ?

I think Hamilton just outed him

Quote
Andrew Hood ‏@EuroHoody
Says it was a German doctor on Phonak; bag had "41-42" - judge pressing for more details, if Fuentes was in France at time?

I can not find a German Dr on Larri´s list for Phonak and Google not helping

I would say the doctor is a 'she' by the name of Denise Demir.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phonak-doctor-the-damage-to-his-image-is-gigantic (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phonak-doctor-the-damage-to-his-image-is-gigantic)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 18:38
who was the German Dr at the 2004 with Phonak ?

I think Hamilton just outed him

I can not find a German Dr on Larri´s list for Phonak and Google not helping


I would say the doctor is a 'she' by the name of Denise Demir.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phonak-doctor-the-damage-to-his-image-is-gigantic (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phonak-doctor-the-damage-to-his-image-is-gigantic)

So she survived the 2004 clean-up?

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 19, 2013, 18:41
So she survived the 2004 clean-up?

You mean 2005? Not sure if she was there then. Will check.

Chief doc Arratibel went noisily, complaining openly in an interview. Oddly enough, he is one of the most searched for names in Dopeology. :?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 18:44
You mean 2005? Not sure if she was there then. Will check.

Chief doc Arratibel went noisily, complaining openly in an interview. Oddly enough, he is one of the most searched for names in Dopeology. :?

Mess was 2004 or was it 2005 as well phonak = team positive.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 19, 2013, 18:47
Mess was 2004 or was it 2005 as well phonak = team positive.

You're right. They quit en masse in January 2005, I think.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 18:54
Info mentioning Demir and doping

http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/doctors-in-doping-probe-may-have-german-link-31937.html (http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/doctors-in-doping-probe-may-have-german-link-31937.html)

Heaps of Landis stuff no 2004  :'(
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 19, 2013, 19:00
Info mentioning Demir and doping

http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/doctors-in-doping-probe-may-have-german-link-31937.html (http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/doctors-in-doping-probe-may-have-german-link-31937.html)

Heaps of Landis stuff no 2004  :'(

Scratch that. It's Thomas Klimatschka. Tyler has already named him in the past. (e.g. http://www.radsportkompakt.de/2012/11/20/hamilton-belastet-auch-deutschen-mediziner/ (http://www.radsportkompakt.de/2012/11/20/hamilton-belastet-auch-deutschen-mediziner/))

Later of Leopard-Trek and Katusha.  ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 19, 2013, 19:04
Beat me too it  :'(

http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.radsportkompakt.de/2012/11/20/hamilton-belastet-auch-deutschen-mediziner/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DThomas%2BKlimaschka%2Bdoping%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dtablet-android-samsung%26tbo%3Dd%26source%3Dandroid-browser-type%26v%3D141400000&sa=X&ei=MMwjUd7lF4mp4ATv_IDoDw&ved=0CD0Q7gEwAg (http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.radsportkompakt.de/2012/11/20/hamilton-belastet-auch-deutschen-mediziner/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DThomas%2BKlimaschka%2Bdoping%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dtablet-android-samsung%26tbo%3Dd%26source%3Dandroid-browser-type%26v%3D141400000&sa=X&ei=MMwjUd7lF4mp4ATv_IDoDw&ved=0CD0Q7gEwAg)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 19, 2013, 19:57
JSG is rapidly becoming the apprentice to Larris sorcerer
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on February 19, 2013, 23:40
Angel Vicisio is found, in his new home in Andorra.. Apparently nobody had told him he had to come talk to the Judge and convieniently he hasnt read the sporting papers & magazines the last two months. :D :D

http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/deportes/mas_deportes/2013/02/19/angel_vicioso_223305_1101034.html (http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/deportes/mas_deportes/2013/02/19/angel_vicioso_223305_1101034.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 20, 2013, 07:24
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/hamilton-testifies-that-sevilla-phonak-director-others-accompanied-him-for-transfusions_275218 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/hamilton-testifies-that-sevilla-phonak-director-others-accompanied-him-for-transfusions_275218)

Andrew Hoods report from yesterday.

With 1 important missing bit, but we know who the Dr was most likely :win
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 20, 2013, 08:23
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/hamilton-testifies-that-sevilla-phonak-director-others-accompanied-him-for-transfusions_275218 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/hamilton-testifies-that-sevilla-phonak-director-others-accompanied-him-for-transfusions_275218)

Andrew Hoods report from yesterday.

With 1 important missing bit, but we know who the Dr was most likely :win

If he'd waited until some doping cranks Googled Klimaschka, Andrew would have missed his publishing deadline.  :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on February 20, 2013, 13:29
Angel Vicioso has apparently gone missing, even the guarda dont know where he is. He is due to testify on friday.

Being reported that AC wont be required to testify on the 22nd (same day as vicioso) as planned. He was being called by Manolo's legal team. Either they figure they may as well protect AC from lying under oath, or Manolo has finally realised that even Alberto defending him wont stop the huge pile of crap thats headed for him courtesy of Jaksche and Hamilton.

Or AC told Manolo's legal team that he would not lie under oath, bluffing or not, and Manolo's legal team let him out of testifying because of it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 20, 2013, 17:26
Ekimov suspends Vicioso for "lying"

http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/20130220/646530086.html (http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/20130220/646530086.html)

In other news, Father Christmas reveals the tooth fairy doesnt exist.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on February 20, 2013, 18:49
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/51-puerto-blood-bags-remain-unlocated (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/51-puerto-blood-bags-remain-unlocated)

51 of the original blood bags are missing.

We know there was a cover-up of the tennis/athletics/football side of Puerto back in 2006 and I would not be at all surprised if these 51 missing bags were destroyed as part of that cover up.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Zam on February 22, 2013, 10:45
vicioso shown his doping calendar from fuentes at LS and apparently he forgets somethings.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Zam on February 22, 2013, 10:52
wow vicision says he is willing to do a dna test to prove that the blood bags aint his.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 22, 2013, 11:21
wow vicision says he is willing to do a dna test to prove that the blood bags aint his.

I'll believe that when I see it happen ... ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on February 27, 2013, 20:14
So has this finished now then :D

And on Angel, there is one bag of his in storage, but im not sure he realises it as his last tranfusions from memory was a large in in may so he may think he has none left.

Wrong Sucka.. you have one :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 28, 2013, 08:28
So has this finished now then :D

And on Angel, there is one bag of his in storage, but im not sure he realises it as his last tranfusions from memory was a large in in may so he may think he has none left.

Wrong Sucka.. you have one :D

The testimonies of interest to us have finished but the case is temporarily stalled. Carlos Arribas noted in El Pais on Monday that the State had refused funding for transcriptions (transcriptions about transfusions ;)), so the judge has been left with the task of writing up her own case. Testimonies from non-ES speaking witnesses like Jaksche and Dr Schumacher were not stenographed and must also be translated.

The situation dovetails somewhat with ongoing protests against austerity measures in Spain, where judges actually went on strike recently to protest a lack of resources. Those staff who are currently having to work extra on the Puerto case are basically doing so without pay.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 04, 2013, 12:35
Peter Cossins ‏@petercossins
The haematologist appearing for defence at Puerto trial has revealed he's not a haematologist after giving evidence for 2hrs via @Juan_Guti


 :lol
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 05, 2013, 16:34
Quote
Orla Chennaoui ‏@SkyOrla
Interesting day at Operation Puerto, wiretapped phonecalls played to court. Fuentes 'hysterical' days before arrest because lack of products

Quote
Orla Chennaoui ‏@SkyOrla
In tapped calls Fuentes implicates Unai Osa as client, (swore under oath he wasn't) and panics about getting 'snacks' to Birillo at '06 Gir
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 07, 2013, 11:40
Top 10 quotes from the Operacion Puerto trial (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/top-10-quotes-from-the-operacion-puerto-trial)

8.   Fuentes, phone conversation to ‘laboratory co-director’ Merino Batres concerning Ivan Basso in the 2006 Giro: “I’ve got to sort this out, because at the end of the day, I’m the one who’s responsible. ‘Birillo’ [Ivan Basso] is waiting... and what should I say to ‘Birillo’? That there’s no food. Things are getting out of hand and he’s in a place where it’s impossible to take him sandwiches. We’d been planning for months to take him a sandwich this weekend. If there’s no sausage, I’ll give him chorizo or cheese. We had promised him a couple of ice lollies [blood bags].”
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 12, 2013, 20:12
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/news/puerto-trial-postponed-after-spanish-fed-asks-for-reduced-sentences_277670 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/03/news/puerto-trial-postponed-after-spanish-fed-asks-for-reduced-sentences_277670)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 15, 2013, 19:48
Massive news

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=9056522&src=desktop (http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=9056522&src=desktop)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on March 15, 2013, 19:49
We live in hope!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 15, 2013, 21:26
Bags known in storage

Ullrich - already retired and confessed
Basso - already banned
Botero -
Oscar Sevilla
Unai Oso - retired
Oscar Periero - retired
Marcus Serrano - retired
Angel Vicioso - Katusha
Francisco Mancebo
Valverede- already suspended
Aito Oso - retired
Constantino Zabelle Guterriez -
Jorge Jakshe - retired and confessed
Number 22 unknown
number 23 Unknown
Clasicomano Luigi (4 bags)
Lulu Sanchez
Clasicomano (3 bags)
number 101 unknown
ana - 1 bag
cfa - 1 bag
dona - 2 bags
gemma - 2 bags
klaus - 2 bags
mari - 3 bags
sofa - 2 bags
tonante - 1 bag
tor - 1 bag

not too much to get excited about, retired, confessed or already been suspended.

There is of course the off chance that there might be somewhere in those 200 a nugget of gold, cancellara, schleck, contador.. but unlikely.. certainly contador is out, spanish authorities made sure of that.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 15, 2013, 21:28
Vicioso would be done, along with Lulu..

that list is from the 100 known bags, the other 80 odd bags are mainly plasma so will be similar names.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 15, 2013, 21:31
Hopefully there will be some none cyclists in there.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 15, 2013, 21:33
Hopefully there will be some none cyclists in there.

some of the minor unnumbered bags are non cyclists

ana - 1 bag
cfa - 1 bag
dona - 2 bags
gemma - 2 bags
klaus - 2 bags
mari - 3 bags
sofa - 2 bags
tonante - 1 bag
tor - 1 bag

for instance klaus is a tennis player.. but they will be in the minority..

and the timing of the raids meant that real madrid etc had no bags in storage ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 15, 2013, 21:45
So no footballers?

Unacceptable. Either its done properly or not at all.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Drummer Boy on March 15, 2013, 21:49
Quote
The ultimate decision rests solely with judge Julia Santamaria, who has said she will announce her decision after the trial ends on April 2.

Any speculation as to what reasoning she might employ if she DOESN'T release the additional evidence?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on March 15, 2013, 22:22
So no footballers?

Unacceptable. Either its done properly or not at all.
You can only work with the evidence you have. As Dim said, there's no reason for footballers to refill in late May.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 15, 2013, 22:26
late May 2006? There was this little thing called the World Cup.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: search on March 15, 2013, 22:28
yeah, and Fuentes was in Germany, so no bloog bags left in the office
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 15, 2013, 22:45
You can only work with the evidence you have. As Dim said, there's no reason for footballers to refill in late May.

and theres the small issue of location.. there were two main locations, one had the riders bags in, one had the other bags in. One got logged and recorded really well (well, i say really, its a mess but they were logged), the other... :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 15, 2013, 23:03
yeah, and Fuentes was in Germany, so no bloog bags left in the office

what was that then that le monde were saying about Barcelona and what Fuentes said himself about how only the cyclists were targetted and not the football players.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: search on March 15, 2013, 23:08
was there anyone playing for Barcelona who was not at the world cup at that time of the year?

I was partly joking though, obviously he did not take all the blood bags to Germany. But he did come here for the world cup, didn't he?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on March 16, 2013, 00:20
Non-cyclist blood is what I really hope for out of this, something to force tennis/football/whatever to face up to some problems.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on March 16, 2013, 08:40
late May 2006? There was this little thing called the World Cup.
Good point, didn't think of that.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on March 16, 2013, 12:39
Good point, didn't think of that.

Yeah, this was explained in the trial. I think he had Labarta with him and the latter obtained products from Marcus Choina who, I'm sure by coincidence, worked in a lab about an hour's drive from where the Spanish team was based. Choina was later raided by German police but it was much too late.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 20, 2013, 12:05
Someone found the missing Blood Bags all are accounted for  - http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/03/19/actualidad/1363722651_606904.html (http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/03/19/actualidad/1363722651_606904.html)

(http://ep00.epimg.net/deportes/imagenes/2013/03/19/actualidad/1363722651_606904_1363722978_sumario_grande.png)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on March 21, 2013, 05:49
"El misterio de la sagre" - sounds like a new catholic dogma... ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on March 21, 2013, 08:51
In this recent CN article ...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/puerto-fuentes-willing-to-give-up-client-list (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/puerto-fuentes-willing-to-give-up-client-list)

... we now have 39 clients on Fuentes' list which he will, if the deal is right, give up to WADA but which is, in my opinion, actually a veiled threat to the people on that list and their backers. I think he has no intention of giving away that data for free.

Surely these 39 clients consist of little more than a pruned version of those we already knew? What's the value of a list that mostly restates names like Basso, Scarponi, Jaksche, Osa A, Osa U, Cipollini and Ullrich (to name but seven).
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on March 21, 2013, 09:42
well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on March 21, 2013, 09:50
well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.

In that case, I apologise for the rather jaundiced character of my post.  :embarrassed I didn't mean to suggest that the info shouldn't come out. It is always worth it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 21, 2013, 17:44
Posted this one in the evidence thread, but Its worthy of discussion.

Liberty Seguros 2005

Calendar - indicates if a team calendar is present in evidence along with its reference number
Codename and numbers refers to fuentes bag numbering
Bags refers to if there are bags known to exist

Note: the bags in stock is obviously for 2006 at the time of the Puerto raids, and the roster is for 2005 and they did not ride the Tour in 2006, but working on the logic of similar doping patterns, and customers.

Whats interesting is that of the 11 Liberty riders that scored UCI ranking points, Calendars are present in evidence for all but two of them, while of the remaining 16 riders, only 5 have calendars.

Of the 11 Liberty riders that scored ranking points 5 have known identities and code numbers or blood bags in stock, while of the remaining 16, only 2 do..


This clearly seems to show that if there is organised team doping, the bulk of it seems to be very much at the top end, evidence is there for nearly all the riders that scored UCI points, while at the bottom end of the squad, there is barely any evidence at all.

If you then break it down into the Giro and Tour squads.
Of the 8 riders who started the Giro, only 1 has a known reference number and only 4 have calendars.
Of the 9 that started the Tour, all but one have team calendars in evidence, and 5, over half the squad have known codenames or bags in stock.
[/i]

Again this would suggest very much that the teams doping policy was focused almost entirely on the Tour de France.

UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Giro?Tour?
18Roberto Heras*es10RH142Y
33Alberto Contador*esNo NumberY
37Jörg Jaksche*de24Bella/Vains2011Y
43Allan Davis*au23Y
47David Etxebarria*es27
71Giampaolo Caruso*itY
77Ángel Vicioso*es8VCS/Vicioso164Y
107Jan Hruška*cz14Y
107Carlos Barredo*es
112Michele Scarponi*it26Zapatero 32Y
136Marcos Serrano*esNo NumberAlcalde138Y
Joseba Beloki*es28YY
Igor González de Galdeano*es16 & 29Y
Luis León Sánchez*esHuerta263Y
Dariusz Baranowski*poY
Javier Ramírez Abeja*esY
Koldo Gil*esY
René Andrle*cz11Y
Aaron Kemps*au
Daniel Navarro*cz
Isidro Nozal*cz9Alonso Cano/Guri53
Ivan Santos Martinez*es
Jesús Hernández Blázquez*es15
José Antonio Redondo*es
Koen de Kort*nl
Nuno Ribeiro*pt
Sérgio Paulinho*pt

Just the Tour Squad
UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Tour?
18Roberto Heras*es10RH142Y
33Alberto Contador*esNo NumberY
37Jörg Jaksche*de24Bella/Vains2011Y
43Allan Davis*au23Y
77Ángel Vicioso*es8VCS/Vicioso164Y
136Marcos Serrano*esNo NumberAlcalde138Y
Joseba Beloki*es28Y
Igor González de Galdeano*es16 & 29Y
Luis León Sánchez*esHuerta263Y

Just the Giro Squad
UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Giro?
Joseba Beloki*es28Y
71Giampaolo Caruso*itY
107Jan Hruška*cz14Y
112Michele Scarponi*it26Zapatero 32Y
Dariusz Baranowski*poY
Javier Ramírez Abeja*esY
Koldo Gil*esY
René Andrle*cz11Y

Still unidentified cyclists
NameCode No.
Bags
Cesar151
Porras Bis/Dona2310
En Blanco1
Clasicómano Luigi2410
Clasicomano337
Amigo de Birillo254
Gemma3

Total of 6 cyclists whos identities are not known. (Note Dekker is either Clasicomano or Clasicomo Luigi)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on March 21, 2013, 17:49
well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.

source???
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 21, 2013, 17:58
well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.


these two have been well known for a while.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 21, 2013, 18:30
Following on from the above.

Liberty had a pretty dire Tour.. Final Finishing positions along with wether there are known bags in stock for them. This makes equally fascinating reading. Four of their top five finishers had blood bags confiscated in the Puerto raids, with one notable exception.

PosRider'+/-CodenameBags?
16thJaksche24.07Bella11
31stContador1.03.25
40thSerrano1.21.31Alcalde8
45thHeras1.38.33RH2
64thVicioso2.09.37VCS4
75thBeloki2.26.26
84thDavis2.34.40
108thSanchez3.03.19Huerta3
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on March 21, 2013, 18:59
Berto didn't need any blood bags ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Echoes on March 21, 2013, 20:16
(http://www.transport-personnes-paris.com/images/13.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 21, 2013, 20:20
(http://www.transport-personnes-paris.com/images/13.jpg)

Hell, those ears.. Thats definate growth hormone at work.

its well known they test on mice :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on March 21, 2013, 23:49
source???

meaning might confirm whether or not either of them received more than just training plans.

Sorry if my meaning was not clear. 

these two have been well known for a while.

they have been known for ages - but evidence to be able to ban them would be nice.  They are still riding after all.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 21, 2013, 23:57
meaning might confirm whether or not either of them received more than just training plans.

Sorry if my meaning was not clear. 

they have been known for ages - but evidence to be able to ban them would be nice.  They are still riding after all.

Well Lulu is suspended and living on fairly borrowed time.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 22, 2013, 00:04
The real standout one that has yet to be identified is 23 - Poras Bis

10 bags in storage which is similar to the amounts being held by the Liberty riders that would have ridden the Tour. Almost certainly a rider that was going to transfuse during the tour, was still having transfusions in May and June.

Think that will be the big news.

Porras is Mancebo, so who is Porras Bis?

Bis in Spanish is "encore", so "Mancebo Encore?"
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on March 22, 2013, 05:28
Well Lulu is suspended and living on fairly borrowed time.

he is suspended by his team pending their investigation.  Not actually being investigated by UCI, Spanish federation or WADA.    Big difference.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on March 22, 2013, 09:04
The real standout one that has yet to be identified is 23 - Poras Bis

10 bags in storage which is similar to the amounts being held by the Liberty riders that would have ridden the Tour. Almost certainly a rider that was going to transfuse during the tour, was still having transfusions in May and June.

Think that will be the big news.

Porras is Mancebo, so who is Porras Bis?

Bis in Spanish is "encore", so "Mancebo Encore?"

Yes. In all Latin languages, it means "again" or "repeat", so it could be another, distinct Mancebo tapping. Or else it was that of a close colleague of his who Mancebo introduced.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 22, 2013, 10:43
Yes. In all Latin languages, it means "again" or "repeat", so it could be another, distinct Mancebo tapping. Or else it was that of a close colleague of his who Mancebo introduced.

my thought was the 2nd
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 22, 2013, 14:33
Its not Mancebo's second identity. He already has about 20 bags stored under Porras, more under another name would be silly..

Just looking at the 2005 Illes Balears lineup, the same old names pop up, Gutierrez, Osai, Valverde, Arrieta...

Same old names.. Couple of wildcards.. Vladimir Karpets, Xabier Zandio. And for some reason Juan Manuel Gárate keeps apearing on my doping radar.



Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: barrus on March 22, 2013, 19:06
Fuentes attorney stated that from 2007-2009 Fuentes worked for Real Madrid, Real even still owes him money

http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html (http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 22, 2013, 20:15
Fuentes attorney stated that from 2007-2009 Fuentes worked for Real Madrid, Real even still owes him money

http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html (http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html)

Funny that.. could have sworn that was around the time that Greenedges doctor, Manuel Rodriguez Alonso was also working there. :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on March 23, 2013, 01:43
and in english

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/22/blood-doping-trial-fuentes-real-madrid?CMP=twt_gu (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/22/blood-doping-trial-fuentes-real-madrid?CMP=twt_gu)

does he have a death wish or something?    he is playing a very hard game now
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on March 23, 2013, 02:07
sibling discount huh?   maybe thats why Andy didnt get caught paying ....
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 23, 2013, 02:17
lol you gotta give it to fuentes. Got a lot of balls on him. Love how he did that. And hillarious Real's response that he was just a witness and can have the moeny if he faxes them the receipts.

and in english

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/22/blood-doping-trial-fuentes-real-madrid?CMP=twt_gu (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/22/blood-doping-trial-fuentes-real-madrid?CMP=twt_gu)

does he have a death wish or something?    he is playing a very hard game now

One that he cannot win.  He seems to be just thinking - flip it, lets create as much chaos as i can. Probably realizes its not a bright future for him.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on March 23, 2013, 02:20
Hes also thinking, if i push enough people, maybe someone will sort out a reduced sentance, otherwise my memory might just return..
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on March 23, 2013, 02:28
Hes also thinking, if i push enough people, maybe someone will sort out a reduced sentance, otherwise my memory might just return..



Better to do it through private channels though no?

 And secondly, if Fuentes did actually speak against other riders, wouldnt it be just his evil doping doctor word agains their superheor inspiration to millions word? Kind of like Landis and Hamilton vs Lance.

Or even, if I recall correctly, Victor Conte vs Marion Jones. When he first said he was doping here the media said it was just evil grumpy old doping mastermind trying to ruin and taint an innocent American heroin.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Caruut on March 23, 2013, 04:53
Dunno, Fuentes seemed pretty organised, he may well be able to point to documents and identify things that make it his word from years ago when he had no incentive to lie vs theirs now. Still, perhaps he tried to get Madrid to pull some strings for him and they told him "get lost", so he's showing them he means business.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on March 23, 2013, 12:17
I get the impression that Fuentes just likes seeing his name in the papers. Every time the case dies down a bit or gets boring, he comes out and says something ridiculous like "I'd be willing to give up my client list" or "Real Madrid owes me money" and suddenly he is back on the front pages again. Not to say I think he's lying though.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 02, 2013, 14:21
"He kept Jesus Manzano in my house interview with neighbor  (http://ciclismo.as.com/ciclismo/2013/04/02/mas_ciclismo/1364858600_510842.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Slow Rider on April 03, 2013, 08:56
Don't know if this is old news, but apparently Clasicomano is Flecha. The article also mentions Clasicomano Luigi as Thomas Dekker, as earlier.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml)

Flecha got blood transfused at least twice, according to this article. He did just deny ever being involved in doping through the questionnaire the Dutch teams made their riders answer, so the value of that questionnaire is instantly in doubt again..

However, I'm not exactly sure what these conclusions of the Volkskrant are based on, will have a look at the paper version later to see if there's more there.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on April 03, 2013, 09:12
Don't know if this is old news, but apparently Clasicomano is Flecha. The article also mentions Clasicomano Luigi as Thomas Dekker, as earlier.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml)

Flecha got blood transfused at least twice, according to this article. He did just deny ever being involved in doping through the questionnaire the Dutch teams made their riders answer, so the value of that questionnaire is instantly in doubt again..

However, I'm not exactly sure what these conclusions of the Volkskrant are based on, will have a look at the paper version later to see if there's more there.

Please do so, Slow, and if you wouldn't mind letting us know your thoughts afterwards. The VK has made a lot of fairly circumstantial stabs in the dark lately and I've had to decide each time whether to record them, but unless we see a bit more ripening of the tomato of allegation, I can't use it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on April 03, 2013, 10:00
Don't know if this is old news, but apparently Clasicomano is Flecha. The article also mentions Clasicomano Luigi as Thomas Dekker, as earlier.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3419457/2013/04/03/Juan-Antonio-Flecha-was-klant-van-dopingarts-Fuentes.dhtml)

Flecha got blood transfused at least twice, according to this article. He did just deny ever being involved in doping through the questionnaire the Dutch teams made their riders answer, so the value of that questionnaire is instantly in doubt again..

However, I'm not exactly sure what these conclusions of the Volkskrant are based on, will have a look at the paper version later to see if there's more there.

So does that mean cancellara is of the hook?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 03, 2013, 10:01
So 3rd Rabo who went out of house ?

 T Dekker
 D Menchov  and the Arrow - seems weird why these 3 did but other did not sort of - ie rabo control verse Fuentes ?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 03, 2013, 10:02
So does that mean cancellara is of the hook?

Not yet needs to be confirmed but the connections are almost the same as for Flecha

ie it is Fabian = it is Flecha
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Slow Rider on April 03, 2013, 10:04
So 3rd Rabo who went out of house ?

 T Dekker
 D Menchov  and the Arrow - seems weird why these 3 did but other did not sort of - ie rabo control verse Fuentes ?

Don't know about Menchov, but the VK article says both Dekker and Flecha had Luigi Cecchini as their trainer, and claims he is likely the one that pointed them towards Fuentes.

The article doesn't provide any kind of source or evidence for its claims though. It just says that 'research by this paper shows that...'. So unless we get more information at some stage, this doesn't seem much like proof to me.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on April 03, 2013, 10:06
Nonetheless that is good enough for me to continue in my fairyworld belief that fabs is pure. :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on April 03, 2013, 10:12
Well this news makes me sad. I like Flecha.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Arb on April 03, 2013, 10:21
Flecha's Fuentes time was supposedly 2003, well before Rabo.

But even then we are only sure of stage racers Rasmussen/Menchov/Dekker/Boogerd receiving transfusions. In 2006 their primitive internal system was beefed up by moving across to Vienna.

I do not for a second believe Dekker was a Fuentes client and if Flecha was I doubt it was through a Rabo link.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 03, 2013, 23:07
While it could be Flecha, that article is flakey to say the least.

They seem to be basing it purely on calendars and then taking the transfusion dates and trying to make it fit a race schedule. Most of the transfusion dates have been well known for ages, and I put the bulk of them in the names thread.

They cant honestly be making the accusation based on just those dates, they must have a source that has given them extra info they arent telling us about.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DinZ on April 03, 2013, 23:12
While it could be Flecha, that article is flakey to say the least.

They seem to be basing it purely on calendars and then taking the transfusion dates and trying to make it fit a race schedule. Most of the transfusion dates have been well known for ages, and I put the bulk of them in the names thread.

They cant honestly be making the accusation based on just those dates, they must have a source that has given them extra info they arent telling us about.

interesting that Vacon say they specifically asked him the question about rider 33 so there must be more rumours out there about it being him
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 03, 2013, 23:19
There have been rumours for years, Flecha was linked years ago just because of the "classics man" and him being Spanish.

I think the evidence they are going on is very thin. Could well be him. Could well be someone else. I posted the transfusion dates ages ago, very easy to put two and two together. frankly i havnt got a clue who classicomano is.

Will also add, ive been of the feeling that Classicomano rode Pais Vasco and Tirreno. 2 bags prior to a stage race is more fuentes pattern. Two bags prior to a one day race makes very little sense. Just wasnt his pattern of things
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on April 03, 2013, 23:56
lol, another vacan bites the dust.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 00:22
I dont have a clue who classicomano is.. could be one of about 5.. Cancellara, Flecha, but also several others.. I dont think Volksrant have a clue either, unless they have a source they arent telling us about
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on April 04, 2013, 00:46
Yeah, but it seems everytime Vacan sign a leader that person ends up in darkside threads by before theyve really begun. .
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 00:55
Flecha unlikely to be rider 33 - classicomano.

Fuentes has five customers that day
Oscar Sevilla - Withdraw 2 infused 1
Jacksche - Withdrew 2
101 - Withdrew 1
Lulu Sanchez - Withdrew 1
Classicomano - Withdrew one

Phone records so calls from a German number where the conversation regarding the transfusion was done in English, and an italian number with conversation in Italian.

English is likely to be Jorge.. Theres no reason for Lulu, Flecha, or Sevilla to converse in Italian. So likelehood is that either classicomano or 101 are Italian.

Credit to @lllludo who pointed it out on twitter, i remembered the german phone but didnt put two and two together.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 01:31
ok, further on this..

Athlete 101 who is unidentified was due to have a transfusion on the 13th. Phone records show that the italian caller had his transfusion delayed till the following morning.. And hey presto, there is a bag for athlete 101 dated the 14th..

So 101 is italian.
The english speaking german is probably jacksche

that leaves sevilla, lulu sanchez and classicomano..

So classicomano could be flecha, possibly...

But i keep coming back to two bags reinfused 3 days before flanders.. That makes no sense, thats not how fuentes did it.. one day riders had a bag, maybe half a bag with magic tablets.. not two bags.. (which also rules out cancellara).. im convinced classicomano rode pais vasco
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 01:51
To throw fuell on the fire. Dekker rode both Tirreno and Pais Vasco. Races that 33 had transfusions just before. Im not convinced dekker isnt plain old classicomano, rather than clasicomano luigi

And to add to that, Classicomano Luigi reinfused just before Catalunya. Dekker didnt ride Catalunya.

Classicomano is NOT cancellara.. Unless he had a bag withdrawn two days before winning the opening tt in catalunya, which would be arrogant even by fabians standards.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 02:12
Conclusion.

Cancellara cannot be classicomano unless he was having blood removed before winning races
Dekker is unlikley to be classicomano Luigi unless he was having re-infusions when he wasnt racing
Mystery man 101 is likely to be Italian
Classicomano Luigi could also be Italian
flecha could be anybody
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Drummer Boy on April 04, 2013, 02:15
Classicomano is NOT cancellara.. Unless he had a bag withdrawn two days before winning the opening tt in catalunya, which would be arrogant even by fabians standards.
Ah, but perhaps that is his strategy. Maybe Cancellara will be revealed as having had blood drawn out before all his victories, just to show what a badass he really is.  :cool:
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 02:17
Ah, but perhaps that is his strategy. Maybe Cancellara will be revealed as having had blood drawn out before all his victories, just to show what a badass he really is.  :cool:

Yes, i can see it now, Fabian admits to seeing Fuentes but says it was only to have blood withdrawn before races to level the playing field. :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: mew on April 04, 2013, 02:21
 :D
I agree with this theory.

dim isn't your head spinning from deducing all of these scenarios  :?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Drummer Boy on April 04, 2013, 02:22
Think about it: Have you ever seen Cancellara bleed very much after any his crashes?

Keeping the levels low might have its advantages.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on April 04, 2013, 06:57
See - SuperFabs    :woohoo
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 04, 2013, 13:23
Eufemiano: "I treated important sportspeople, who're now in other fields, like politics" (http://www.marca.com/2013/04/04/en/more_sports/1365057522.html)

"The success of Barcelona 92 wasn't down to me, but down to the athletes" (http://www.marca.com/2013/04/04/en/more_sports/1365058068.html)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 04, 2013, 17:40
Spreadsheet of transfusions corrolated with race schedules
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Slow Rider on April 13, 2013, 09:01
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3425304/2013/04/13/Nog-twee-Nederlandse-renners-klant-bij-Fuentes.dhtml (http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698/Sport/article/detail/3425304/2013/04/13/Nog-twee-Nederlandse-renners-klant-bij-Fuentes.dhtml)

Apparently besides Thomas Dekker and Remmert Wielinga, there are two more Dutch clients of Fuentes. They didn't get a codename though, since they only bought epo and didn't have transfusions with Fuentes. The source for this information, for a change, seems to be credible: the doctor Berend Nikkels, who advised numerous riders on their doping usage. He won't give any names though, since he is bound by professional confidentiality.

Also interesting is how he describes the doping went in the Rabo team: "There were three categories at Rabo. The domestiques, who weren't allowed anything. There were superdomestiques, who were tolerated to dope on their own accord. And there was the top. They were facilitated. Three of four men. Theo de Rooij named this strategy 'success risk' around 2000.

(all from an AD interview with Nikkels)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 23, 2013, 19:19
D-day April 30th

Or court will make decision public
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on April 23, 2013, 20:14
D-day April 30th

Or court will make decision public

Are we set for a Puerto / Mantova double-bill then? Dopey Mother of ...

(http://rlv.zcache.com.au/mother_of_god_rage_face_comic_meme_round_stickers-re4274ed2f6da4118bd78d5c9fdb5e7e4_v9wth_8byvr_512.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 23, 2013, 20:43
Are we set for a Puerto / Mantova double-bill then? Dopey Mother of ...

(http://rlv.zcache.com.au/mother_of_god_rage_face_comic_meme_round_stickers-re4274ed2f6da4118bd78d5c9fdb5e7e4_v9wth_8byvr_512.jpg)

Going to be a busy week leading into the 1st GT of the year that's for sure
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: benotti69 on April 23, 2013, 21:44
D-day April 30th

Or court will make decision public

Wonder is Petacchi expecting his name to come out?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on April 23, 2013, 22:54
Wonder is Petacchi expecting his name to come out?

Maybe, I would have thought he would have gone to the Giro to close off his career if he wanted to retire now, however it could as well be that Lampre didn't want him on the Giro squad, if they don't think he can win any stages then bringing another rider along might be a better idea.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Drummer Boy on April 29, 2013, 22:58
Tomorrow is finally the day for the decision.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/news/puerto-doping-trial-verdict-to-be-announced-tuesday_284158 (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/news/puerto-doping-trial-verdict-to-be-announced-tuesday_284158)

Of course, it's a TUESDAY!  :P
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on April 30, 2013, 01:01
Of course, it's a TUESDAY!  :P

well it has to be - nothing else would make sense    :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: search on April 30, 2013, 14:11
the verdict, in spanish
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on April 30, 2013, 14:13
As jumped the gun and prematurely published an article stating the outcome and later pulled it. There were no numbers (fines, lengths of sentence) and they got Yolanda's verdict wrong but of what remained it was spot on. Meanwhile, no other journos had said there was a delay on the hearing, which lent credence to the As report.

Anyway, when the story did finally break that was that. None of us have yet read the judgement but I'm thinking that the judge will have ruled against releasing the blood bags on the grounds that doing so did not alter the character of the present case and would be prejudicial to those whose blood it was since there was no framework of a new criminal investigation in which to place the evidence.

Neither Fuentes nor Labarta will serve time in jail. The sentences were suspended. I think Fuentes has been banned from medical purchases for 4 years but there is evidence to suggest that he was able to buy through proxies back then anyway, when he probably did so in order to avoid detection, so in theory that "proscription on prescriptions" changes very little if you have no qualms about acting illegally.

Not a good result whatever way you look at it.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on April 30, 2013, 14:42
The only way WADA is getting those blood bags is if we go all Dimspace's Eleven and heist them away from the Spanish police.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on April 30, 2013, 14:55
The full decision...

*es

*gb
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on April 30, 2013, 14:57
The only way WADA is getting those blood bags is if we go all Dimspace's Eleven and heist them away from the Spanish police.

"Dimspace's Eleven"  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on April 30, 2013, 15:01
The judgement does not describe the legal grounds on which the Judge bases her decision to allow the destruction of the blood bags. That's irritating: we can't try to pick apart the reasoning there, or indeed to find out about Spanish rules of criminal evidence.

Presumably she agreed with the arguments offered by the parties who objected. I don't have those to hand but I'd be curious to know if there was an issue about remoteness.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: l29205 on April 30, 2013, 17:01
Overall, this is a minor slap on the wrist.  One year suspended sentence and 4 year of not practicing sports medicine, not much of a deterrent there.  How about adding a fine in relationship to the amount of money he collected while being one of the doping doctors of choice.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: search on May 10, 2013, 09:58
apparently spanish media has offered Fuentes 60000-100000 Euro to talk

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/05/09/actualidad/1368124475_911635.html
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: benotti69 on May 10, 2013, 10:26
apparently spanish media has offered Fuentes 60000-100000 Euro to talk

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/05/09/actualidad/1368124475_911635.html

I guess the Spanish government is deeply involved in this case. The Spanish do want this to come to any more light than it has already. They will do their utmost to protect the 'clean' and untainted sports, Cycling was the sport that could always be sacrificed to feed the media. If the media did their job in Spain they would've uncovered a lot more than what we know.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on May 12, 2013, 12:07
José Been ‏@TourDeJose 1m
Both WADA and UCI will appeal the Fuentes decision to destroy evidence. Spanish anti-doping agency too
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on May 17, 2013, 10:31
BBC Sport ‏@BBCSport 9m
BREAKING: Spanish state prosecutor's office to appeal against decision to destroy blood bags in Operation Puerto case.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on May 17, 2013, 15:40
Both Spanish prosecutor and CONI to appeal. UCI, and Spanish Anti Doping agency expected to join then. (no mention yet of WADA)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/news/puerto-prosecutor-to-appeal-sentences-plans-for-blood-bags_287228

Quote
A spokesman for public prosecutor confirmed on Friday that they will join the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) in appealing that decision. Cycling world governing body, the UCI, and the Spanish Anti-Doping Agency (AEA) have also signaled their intention to appeal.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on May 17, 2013, 15:41
Both Spanish prosecutor and CONI to appeal. UCI, and Spanish Anti Doping agency expected to join then. (no mention yet of WADA)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/news/puerto-prosecutor-to-appeal-sentences-plans-for-blood-bags_287228

"SADA" is the key WADA signatory in the case, so I doubt WADA itself would need to be on the roster.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: S-Works on May 23, 2013, 02:36
I find it "funny" the CONI is appealing...
so let me get this straight: when it's their cyclists (Italians), working with a doping doctor (Ferrari), this constitutes a 3 month suspension...
while here they want much heavier sanctions since it happens to be a Spanish doctor involved?

Yeah...
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on May 23, 2013, 11:37
I find it "funny" the CONI is appealing...
so let me get this straight: when it's their cyclists (Italians), working with a doping doctor (Ferrari), this constitutes a 3 month suspension...
while here they want much heavier sanctions since it happens to be a Spanish doctor involved?

Yeah...

1. Ferrari

Association with a banned doctor is not the same as doping with a banned doctor. Unfortunately, there was not enough evidence to prove otherwise, however prima facie obvious these cases may have been.

After his first trial, Ferrari was careful to build in degrees of separation between himself and his activities, adopting a 'hidden in plain sight' approach with his little website and his camper van, in order to limit his future exposure to legal pursuit.

However, given the vain fool that he is, in his unshakeable arrogance he failed to take such precautions in his financial dealings, and appears to have left such matters to "respectable" lawyers like Rocco Taminelli.

All will be revealed in due course, I daresay, but the fact remains that Ferrari effectively limited personal risk to his clients and to himself in the training / doping aspects, passing on much of it to a number of individuals including his son Stefano.

This is a step beyond what Fuentes managed to do with his ridiculous coded lingo and his decryptable records, but it should be remembered that Fuentes' operation dates back to the period 2003-2006, which makes him a near-contemporary of Ferrari's original idiocy.

2. CONI

CONI is appealing because it has a twofold interest in this case for which it must get vindication:

a) Valverde and Scarponi. Both of these vintage dopers cost CONI a lot of time and expense and the accounts must be settled.

b) Certain clubs in Serie A are thought to have been heavily dependent on Fuentes' Madrid operation and the anonymous blood bags may contain evidence of that.

CONI must also bear responsibility for its own small part in the explosion of blood doping in sport, having facilitated and indirectly financed Conconi's nineties doping programme. Thus I am quite happy to see it pushing hard for the right reasons.

Puerto has never been an entirely Spanish affair.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: S-Works on May 23, 2013, 16:35
Funny though, until now I've yet to hear or read, besides AC Milan, any other Serie A team...
I blame the media for brainwashing people into thinking it's simply a Spanish issue.

I for one am very offended when people start to equate Spaniard = doper... it's one of the reasons I quit twitter, when I started getting non-followers insulting my ethnicity...
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on July 31, 2013, 16:28
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Remko on August 10, 2013, 00:07
Did someone by any chance get hold on the other Puerto Tomo's than those already included in the document-topic? I'm trying to dig into it after the French Senat report.

I found Tomo IV, X, XI and XIII as well as a lot of separate pages from other Tomo's. Especially a complete version of the Tomo's I, II and III would be a lot of help for further analysis.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 27, 2013, 21:04
http://twitter.com/mrconde/status/372448928160952320
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: KeithJamesMc on August 27, 2013, 21:20
http://twitter.com/mrconde/status/372448928160952320
Well, it was not a court case, but a press council complaint.

I'm not sure how that works in the Netherlands, but I bet it is not as strange a process as the UK.

Also, doesn't seem to be a complete victory for Flecha as no redaction / apology was needed.

It seems yet again somene has got off on a technicality.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 28, 2013, 15:18
Did someone by any chance get hold on the other Puerto Tomo's than those already included in the document-topic? I'm trying to dig into it after the French Senat report.

I found Tomo IV, X, XI and XIII as well as a lot of separate pages from other Tomo's. Especially a complete version of the Tomo's I, II and III would be a lot of help for further analysis.

Sadly no, ive been digging and talking to people but to no avail.

I have chunks of Tomo III. This has the basso stuff, a bunch of calendars, and someone at Gazetta has access to Tommo III as this has the Cippollini stuff but ive not managed to get hold of a copy.

Tomo 1 is the one people want to get their hands on. Spoke to a guy in spain a while back and he has seen the bulk of it, but said that huge sections of it were missing. Most of what remains has been published, its largely the Liberty Seguros calendars and its fair to assume that most of the missing stuff refers to Liberty as well. Its these missing pages that fuel the controversy over Contador and if he was protected. Certainly from what I know, Tomo 1-3 are mainly concerning cyclists, rider calendars, personal notes etc, very likely that 5 to 9 has teh stuff on non cylists. Bits and bobs of this have appeared (football stuff), but very little.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 28, 2013, 15:29
Someone who should be spoken to is Carlos Arribbas. He has seen all of Tomo 1-3 but is very selective on what he decides to share with and report on.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on August 28, 2013, 17:15
Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: KeithJamesMc on August 28, 2013, 18:18
Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?
Lack of Transparency on docs plus Internet Access equals Conspiracy Heaven.

I am of the opposite opinion, but I do not have any hard evidence, just pure speculation and McInternet NonConspiracy.

If Contador was mixed up in Puerto and was mentioned, or more able to be deciphered, someone somewhere would have sold the story by now given he is such a huge star.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on August 28, 2013, 19:42
Lack of Transparency on docs plus Internet Access equals Conspiracy Heaven.

I am of the opposite opinion, but I do not have any hard evidence, just pure speculation and McInternet NonConspiracy.

If Contador was mixed up in Puerto and was mentioned, or more able to be deciphered, someone somewhere would have sold the story by now given he is such a huge star.

I thought Contador was just one of several cases in which codenames had been incorrectly identified as particular riders. Can someone confirm that?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on August 30, 2013, 07:38
I thought Contador was just one of several cases in which codenames had been incorrectly identified as particular riders. Can someone confirm that?

I remember seeing a calender with the markings "AC" on it that fit with what Contador had ridden for that year.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on August 30, 2013, 09:24
I remember seeing a calender with the markings "AC" on it that fit with what Contador had ridden for that year.

Fair enough. I remember now that I had read somewhere that it could have been Antonio Colóm but if the schedules match so precisely, I guess it's kind of obvious. ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on August 30, 2013, 09:36
Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on August 30, 2013, 09:56
Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?

some were both from memory
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on August 30, 2013, 16:00
Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?

I can't seem to find it again, I found a team calendar for Contador marked "ALB" in the files, had some asterixes, but nothing like a dope calendar.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on August 30, 2013, 16:13
Ah yes that calendar was posted on this forum too but it was just a race calendar I thought.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on August 30, 2013, 17:31
Ah yes that calendar was posted on this forum too but it was just a race calendar I thought.

Yes, the "ALB" one was, I remember seeing one labeled AC, for doping, but I can't seem to find it, I may be wrong in my recolection though.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on August 30, 2013, 18:39
Yes, the "ALB" one was, I remember seeing one labeled AC, for doping, but I can't seem to find it, I may be wrong in my recolection though.

I am sure dim would know if such a calendar is out there on the interwebs
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 30, 2013, 19:03
The calendar for Contador is captioned "ALB" and is purely a race calendar.

There were two calendars on the whole for liberty riders, one a race calender supplied by the team on Liberty Paper, the other then put together by Fuentes which included the doping schedule. Theres a fair few missing.

the numbered liberty calendars from Tomo 1 are as below.

3-7 missing
8, Angel Vicioso
9, Nozal;
10, Heras,
11, Andrle;
12, missing
13,  Amateurs (AMA)
14, Hruska
15, Jesus Hernandez
16, Igor
17-22 missing
23, Allan Davis;
24, Jaksche
25, missing
26, Scarponi
27, Etxebarría;
28, Beloki;
29, Igor second one
30, missing
31, Calender for the Tour
32-36, Missing
unnumbered - Contador (Code ALB)
unnumbered - Serrano

So a lot of the original Liberty Calendars are missing, but they are just the ones that the team gave to Fuentes with the rider schedules on at the start of the year. From that, he would then draw up seperate doping calendars.  There was a liberty calendar present for Alberto.

An awful lot of Tomo one is missing though.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 30, 2013, 19:04
As far as I know, there is no doping calendar marked "AC" (but there are huge swathes of doping calendars missing". From memory "ac" was included on a handwritten note, and in the evidence notes from the civil guard

(there are more doping calendars "vanished" than there are present ;))
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on August 30, 2013, 19:06
Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?

Piti was protected.

It was the italians who got him after they illegal raided the bloodbank, got his bag, and then hit him when the tour crossed into italy.  But he was certainly protected by the spanish. (as were many)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on September 02, 2013, 11:02
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Dim on October 10, 2013, 00:59
Lulu dumped by Belkin with two years left on his contract.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/373938/
reached settlement apparently. (chances are theyve paid his contract to get him off the books pending some revelations)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 02, 2014, 15:24
https://twitter.com/rorymasini/status/429998067299786752

 :D
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on February 02, 2014, 15:29
Don't name Berto please :shh
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 02, 2014, 15:34
https://twitter.com/rorymasini/status/429998067299786752

 :D

How is this "breaking" ? He was saying as much as early as 2007.

It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 02, 2014, 15:39
How is this "breaking" ? He was saying as much as early as 2007.

It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.

same way a certain cycling news website uses the words exclusive

as I said on twitter hope he does this time
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Gotland on February 02, 2014, 15:39
It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.

Preferably a whole lot of Tennis and Football players  since those documents were destroyed in the Puerto investigation.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 02, 2014, 16:05
Preferably a whole lot of Tennis and Football players  since those documents were destroyed in the Puerto investigation.

Several years ago, he told Le Monde that he would be made to disappear if he named names. He backtracked on that a lot later but I see no reason to doubt the essence of it. Fuentes' best choice would be to watch his words because a lot of folks will be watching him.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: KeithJamesMc on February 02, 2014, 16:19
Several years ago, he told Le Monde that he would be made to disappear if he named names. He backtracked on that a lot later but I see no reason to doubt the essence of it. Fuentes' best choice would be to watch his words because a lot of folks will be watching him.

If Fuentes wanted to say something, he would have done so by now.

In my opinion, it not about being frightened, it is that he doesn't think he has done anything wrong.

You can see that from his defence at the trial.

I see no sort of repentance whosoever and if he was allowed he would reopen his doping clinic in a nanosecond.

It is hard to figure out who is the worst Fuentes, Ferrari or Conconi.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 02, 2014, 16:26
It is hard to figure out who is the worst Fuentes, Ferrari or Conconi.

Conconi was a mad scientist, a Dr Frankenstein who believed he was furthering human endeavour and even doped himself for research purposes.

Ferrari and Fuentes are both incredibly vain, self-absorbed, power-hungry, attention seeking and probably sociopathic.

Not much of anything good to choose between them. ;)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: The Hitch on February 02, 2014, 16:36
Don't name Berto please :shh

now why would he be naming contador behind..., you know what, fuentes dont even know no Contador.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on December 04, 2014, 09:21
https://twitter.com/bambula/status/540434147563823104

GT

Basso on Operacion Puerto: It was a black period
By Rasmus Staghøj 04. December 2014 09:41
Ivan Basso is currently around and smile at Gran Canaria. That smile is his trademark. "The smiling killer," he called, because he looks loyal friend, but 'kills' its competitors on the bike.

But in 2006 the smile faded from Ivan Basso. He was caught in doping case Operacion Puerto, and after first denying all knowledge, he admitted that he had paid doping doctor Eufemiano Fuentes for doping treatment which he claims that it never reached to implement fully. It provided a dopingdom and sacked from Bjarne Riis, where Basso was the big star.
Also read: Basso and Riis' dubious past
Today Ivan Basso 37 years old, and he is back with Bjarne Riis, who right now has its riders at training camp in Gran Canaria. He has long refused to talk about doping case, which he later commented in connection with Eufemiano Fuentes' trial in 2013. Basso could hardly remember anything. It was so long ago, he said. Therefore, he has never shared very many details about the doping network, he was part of. But one thing he has stated. He was alone, and his former Team CSC did not know anything about doping plans.
The details held Basso still for himself when TV 2 Sport yesterday met Italy's training camp in Gran Canaria. But he told how he has handled the situation since then.
Also read: Bjarne Riis did not care about doping past
- That's seven years ago, and it's better to think of the next year than in the past. After that time, I have done very well with a victory in the Giro d'Italia and two podium finishes in Grand Tours. The only problem with that is seven years ago is that I also was seven years older. It makes it harder for me to win.
- What happened then was a black period in my career, but I use all my energy to restart and rebuild trust from the people. Secondly, in the past now. I have done many good things for the next seven years and I will continue to do.
Also read: Riis about Basso old doping: It was a huge mistake
Operacion Puerto was cycling history's biggest doping, which involved the greatest riders like Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich and Tyler Hamilton. Basso's involvement was nearly cost Team CSC life in the big bike field. Bjarne Riis was forced to fire Basso as a result of the case, though he would rather have kept him. The then Team boss was disappointed Basso as he had accumulated an almost familial relationship.
Riis told in connection with the new contract with Basso, the past is past and that Basso deserves a second chance. Also with him.
- He knows that it was a huge mistake at the time, said Bjarne Riis.
The huge error has Ivan Basso spent all his time to remedy, he says.
- Of course I am not happy about what I did, but life goes on. The most important thing is that you must understand that you will be working in the right direction. We are talking about a period of seven years ago. It is a long time. And I have not been to the beach in the last seven years. I ran on my bike, and I've run with good results. I have regained confidence from the people. It does not stop, but restart and gain confidence from the people.
Doping case and the problems of 2006 have not been mentioned in connection with the new contract, tells both Riis and Basso. And the good is generally not to talk about it. Take action instead, think Basso.
- No, we're not talking about what happened seven years ago. We have talked about what should happen in the future. At the beginning of this interview we talked about the captains and our strong riders. That is what we should focus on. It does not mean much to people what I say about it, but what I do. People will not hear me, they want to see action and I think I over the last seven years have shown what I need.
Today Ivan Basso at a different level than that which made him one of today's best GC riders. He can not win a Grand Tour, and that's why he picked the Tinkoff-Saxo as a domestique. Basso will lead Alberto Contador to victory in the Tour de France. The role he has really good about.
- The goal is this: to be ready when the team needs me. It is no less ambition than in the past, it is a great ambition. Usually I'm only responsible for myself, but in this case, I also take responsibility for a captain. It is a new role, but I am happy and believe that it is good for my career.
Da Basso was last on the team, it was Danish and much has happened since then. Oleg Tinkov bought the team and made the Russian and new riders have come to. But one thing has not changed, says Basso.
- Seven years ago, it was one of the best teams, and today it is also one of the world's best teams. The mentality is still that when you are the best, you have to work hard to remain the best. There will always be a team that will try to beat you, so you have to have the mentality. This applies right from Oleg Tinkov and down to the team.


Not much in that biut more than before I guess
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on December 05, 2014, 09:17
Basso could hardly remember anything. It was so long ago, he said. Therefore, he has never shared very many details about the doping network, he was part of. But one thing he has stated. He was alone, and his former Team CSC did not know anything about doping plans.

So that is why he hasn't said more, he couldn't remember.  :lol

So he couldn't remember who was involved, but he could remember that the people he couldn't remember didn't work for Team CSC  :shh



Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on February 10, 2015, 10:37
Puerto rumbles on. And on and on, grumbles Carlos Arribas in yesterday's edition of El Pais.

Sixteen months after the Puerto judgement, a decision has still to be made over what should become of the remaining blood bags in storage. The case, we are told, is in the hands of Judge Alejandro Benito who reportedly has yet to even start work on it, let alone hand down a judgement.

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2015/02/09/actualidad/1423511559_098370.html (ES)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 25, 2015, 09:30
Not unexpected but interesting

https://twitter.com/jacob_haislund/status/613985549846749184
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on June 25, 2015, 09:35
Gotta love the Spanish :win
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 25, 2015, 09:40
https://twitter.com/jacob_haislund/status/613989683543076864
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: carllewis on October 19, 2015, 19:32
Hi all

I am the author Carl Lewis, who has just written the book 'Spanish Sport: The Greatest Con or Jealous Rumour?'.  I started out writing the book with the title 'What is the greatest sporting con of all time?'  Once I research Operation Puerto I changed my mind.  Firstly I have read a lot of your blogs and would like to thank you all for your comments and thoughts.  I am not a conspiracy theorist but I have never seen such a cover up and it is a shame that cycling is getting the vast majority of the negative publicity.  I would like to point out that Guiardiola, an ex-Barcelona football failed two drugs tests shortly after leaving the club, The president of Real Sociedad stated publicly they doped between 2001 and 2007 and the UCI president Pat McQuaid was told by the Spanish authorities tennis and football players were involved.  At least Cycling has lived up to its demons and I feel is far cleaning now than it probably has ever been.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on December 04, 2015, 20:36
Maybe the focus will be on AC and Valv.Piti again soon. And the rest.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/operacion-puerto-appeals-sentence-due-for-january-2016/
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 11, 2016, 07:04
https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/686336114894966784
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: stereojet on January 11, 2016, 11:25
I'd be willing to bet that the appeals will fail, the blood bags destroyed and the cover up complete.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 11, 2016, 11:28
Think you will be correct
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: cj2002 on January 11, 2016, 11:42
Think you will be correct

6 months ago, I think you would have been correct. But recent events in Russia, and at the IAAF and FIFA HQs, mean that this decision is somewhat more loaded than it might have been before.

Before all the IAAF/Russia doping stuff, Spain could have destroyed the samples and no-one - outside of that core of cycling fans and interested journalists - would have batted an eyelid. But now... now I think they will feel the eyes of far more people interested in their decision.

That's not to say that I disagree with you both... but that the ramifications of them doing so would be further-reaching than before, so they might (just might) think twice.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 11, 2016, 11:49
Good point well made CJ
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Capt_Cavman on January 11, 2016, 11:53
I agree with CJ2002, I don't think they'll destroy them. But I don't think we'll see a list of names attached to them within the next decade.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on January 11, 2016, 12:17
Time to short sell stocks in Spanish football?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 11, 2016, 12:41
Very hard to believe there will be any real movement on this. At the most, they might flog some long-retired cyclists and a couple of fairly anonymous distance runners.

Sensationalist clickbait tweet that will read like an anticlimax for cultural ostriches and, for the rest of us, act like a gentle wake-up alarm because we'd forgotten about the story for a few months.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: stereojet on January 11, 2016, 13:01
Good point CJ. I honestly hope that you're right but the cynic in me is feeling quite strong today!
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on January 11, 2016, 13:05
Not a chance. Real and Barca?

If it does happen I will be absolutely astonished.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on January 11, 2016, 13:26
oh. For whatever reason I thought they had already destroyed the bags.

I dont believe they will ever reveal the results even if they keep them.   Real and Barca too much money to let that happen
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: stereojet on January 11, 2016, 16:50
I thought it was the Madrid teams and the Spanish national football team that worked with Fuentes while Barcelona used del Moral? Or have I got that mixed up? Can't quite remember.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 12, 2016, 09:41
I thought it was the Madrid teams and the Spanish national football team that worked with Fuentes while Barcelona used del Moral? Or have I got that mixed up? Can't quite remember.

Sounds right to my memory
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 12, 2016, 09:45
I thought it was the Madrid teams and the Spanish national football team that worked with Fuentes while Barcelona used del Moral? Or have I got that mixed up? Can't quite remember.

Sounds right to my memory

Indeed. Fuentes was based in Madrid, Del Moral in Catalunya (near Valencia). Fuentes may also have been present with the Spanish team during the World Cup held in Germany (I forget the year) since he was alleged to have developed a German connection in his supply network.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jimmythecuckoo on January 12, 2016, 10:09
Not a chance. Real and Barca?

If it does happen I will be absolutely astonished.

Agreed. It seems to have become an urban legend that Barca footballers and Spanish tennis players were doped up to the max, but if there is real proof and any sort of legal case, it will be miraculous.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on January 12, 2016, 10:29
Fuentes may also have been present with the Spanish team during the World Cup held in Germany (I forget the year)
2006.
Would be surprising though as in June/July 2006, Fuentes was already under arrest and stuff, and his whole network was being trawled up.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 12, 2016, 11:41
2006.
Would be surprising though as in June/July 2006, Fuentes was already under arrest and stuff, and his whole network was being trawled up.

Spot on, yes. Perhaps I've misremembered the details but the German connection was definitely there. Maybe he had proxies to do the job, à la Ferrari.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on January 12, 2016, 13:03
Even if the Blood bags aren't destroyed what are the chances of linking a bag to a specific person?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on January 12, 2016, 13:57
Don't forget Fuentes has said he will potentially name people on his list after the outcome of this.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 12, 2016, 15:25
Even if the Blood bags aren't destroyed what are the chances of linking a bag to a specific person?

Next to zero.

1. There would need to be a reinstated investigation with a reset SoL.

2. Fuentes would have to give not only names but concrete evidence of their activities.

3. Individuals would need to be compelled to give samples.

4. All of the above would need to be done without State or private interference.

It just isn't going to happen, is it? :P
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on January 12, 2016, 15:28
Next to zero.

1. There would need to be a reinstated investigation with a reset SoL.

2. Fuentes would have to give not only names but concrete evidence of their activities.

3. Individuals would need to be compelled to give samples.

4. All of the above would need to be done without State or private interference.

It just isn't going to happen, is it? :P

No.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on January 12, 2016, 15:34
Next to zero.

1. There would need to be a reinstated investigation with a reset SoL.

2. Fuentes would have to give not only names but concrete evidence of their activities.

3. Individuals would need to be compelled to give samples.

4. All of the above would need to be done without State or private interference.

It just isn't going to happen, is it? :P
I may be imagining things but I thought CONI linked Valverde with Puerto based on DNA they got from a blood sample taken at a doping control? Surely the same could be done with other riders?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: L'arri on January 12, 2016, 15:41
I may be imagining things but I thought CONI linked Valverde with Puerto based on DNA they got from a blood sample taken at a doping control? Surely the same could be done with other riders?

That's absolutely true, Flol, yes and well remembered since you must still have been in diapers back then. :hug

I was thinking more about the 'protected sports' than cycling but it is theoretically possible if the legal facility and the historical collection of DNA both still exist.

In Valverde's case, he was totally targeted by CONI and that has contributed, I think, to his ridiculously sanctimonious attitude about the whole thing both then and now.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: cj2002 on January 13, 2016, 09:15
Just spotted this in a Guardian piece on the next installment of Dick Pound v. the IAAF.

Quote
An internal briefing in September 2012 for Lamine Diack, IAAF president at the time, estimated 42% of tested Russian elite athletes doped. Suspected doping in Turkey, Spain, Morocco and Ukraine also “is particularly worrying”, it said.

This may mean nothing, of course. Alternatively, it may put pressure on the Madrid courts not to perpetuate a cover-up and risk Spain becoming the next Russia.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: 42x16ss on January 13, 2016, 09:51
Don't forget Fuentes has said he will potentially name people on his list after the outcome of this.
The question is who? Will they be current, high profile athletes or retired, foreign nobodies? I strongly suspect that many of the blood bags will somehow happen to be "untestable". The rest will simply confirm what we knew (Valverde, Basso, Mancebo, Sevilla etc) and possibly some long retired smaller names in other sports but that will be about it.

Fuentes offered to give his full client list on the stand in court - his reward was immediate removal from the courtroom. He's also received several death threats. Nothing ground breaking will come of this, everything that was permitted came out in 2006.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on January 13, 2016, 10:45
The question is who? Will they be current, high profile athletes or retired, foreign nobodies? I strongly suspect that many of the blood bags will somehow happen to be "untestable". The rest will simply confirm what we knew (Valverde, Basso, Mancebo, Sevilla etc) and possibly some long retired smaller names in other sports but that will be about it.

Fuentes offered to give his full client list on the stand in court - his reward was immediate removal from the courtroom. He's also received several death threats. Nothing ground breaking will come of this, everything that was permitted came out in 2006.

I guess it all depends on how much money he is offered.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: 42x16ss on January 13, 2016, 12:07
I guess it all depends on how much money he is offered.
And who the benefactors are.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on April 13, 2016, 12:51
https://twitter.com/SkyOrla/status/720216047064903681

June is the end of statue of limitations so not long now 
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on April 14, 2016, 00:45
No decision in sight.

Statute of Limitations ends in June.

Make of that what you will.

FWIW...money, cover-up, lawyers, money, reputations, damage limitation, lawyers, money, seedy sh*t, money, cover-up.

FFS.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on May 23, 2016, 10:45
https://twitter.com/Vanlooyalfas/status/734671872915320832
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 07, 2016, 11:02
https://twitter.com/OlympicStatman/status/740120767938080768
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 14, 2016, 07:51
https://twitter.com/tomcary_tel/status/742596506507694080
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 14, 2016, 10:55
https://twitter.com/stevewilsonap/status/742656047723249664

wow amazing so unexpected
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 14, 2016, 11:02
https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/742657488265220096
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Havetts on June 14, 2016, 12:02
Holy crap, this is such big news with potentially huge consequences. Lets hope they actively chase after finding out to which bloodbag every single one belongs.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 14, 2016, 12:04
https://twitter.com/thijszonneveld/status/742673857123880961
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on June 14, 2016, 12:53
wow - huge news
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on June 14, 2016, 13:28
I will be interested to see how (or if) they go about trying to set aside the statute of limitations.

As I understand it, the SOL applies in a way that the time is from the time of the offense until the start of proceedings against the athlete.

The blood bags were discovered in 2006 or so ... and were handed to authorities at that time.   Will be interested to see if they can argue that proceedings started back then against all athletes whose blood was seized.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Mellow Velo on June 14, 2016, 13:56
 There may be the odd, "mystery" cyclist left in the pro peloton, but surely we already know most of the names?
As for the 12 athletes, they have become the equivalent of cyclists in the noughties: soft targets. Everybody now expects athletes to be dabbling in the dark arts.
Meanwhile, not a Real or Barca footballer in sight, never mind a certain Mallorcan tennis player.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on June 14, 2016, 14:02
I will be interested to see how (or if) they go about trying to set aside the statute of limitations.
They scrapped the SoL in the USADA case against Lance et al., with some rather imaginative arguments.
If they really wanted to, they could do the same here.

The question is: Do they want to?
I'm not holding my breath. :shh
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on June 14, 2016, 14:08
they applied some very vague reasoning in the Armstrong case - reaching and stretching in ways that were never tested.

If Armstrong had gone to arbitration and argued against the SOL ,... there is a fairly good chance he would have won that.  But he didnt, so USADA's argument was allowed as it was the only one presented.


Will be interesting to see if WADA, UCI or any other agency wants to try it on.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: cj2002 on June 14, 2016, 14:57
They scrapped the SoL in the USADA case against Lance et al., with some rather imaginative arguments.
If they really wanted to, they could do the same here.

As far as I remember that was a peculiarity of US law, where the SoL could be removed if there was an indication that an individual had taken action to defraud an investigation[1].

I don't know if that is a globally-applied maxim.

And that is before you get to questions of motivation to act at all...
 1. Or something...
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jimmythecuckoo on June 14, 2016, 15:09
Let's hope the truth will out and the names we all suspect of being complicit in this are finally outed and punished.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on June 14, 2016, 16:57
Reports the unknown sport tennis or boxing.

Olympic statsman tweeted this

https://pound4poundireland.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/kiko-martinez-linked-to-infamous-doping-doctor-eufemiano-fuentes-and-the-boxing-world-shrugs/
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Yellow Peril on June 14, 2016, 16:57
Despite the ruling I can't seem to  get that excited about this. With the passing of the statute of limitations there will be no sanctions so beyond a round of "I told you so" and "I never suspected him" it might go out with more of a whimper than a bang.

Here's a picture of everyone's favourite comedy doper Ricco. He's the only guy who'll probably ask for his bag back so he can use it...

(http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/04/20/1226333/917339-riccardo-ricco.jpg)
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Jamsque on June 14, 2016, 19:34
When I first saw the news I assumed it meant ALL the blood bags, but it seems Spain is still protecting Real and Barca (and probably Nadal) and throwing Cycling under the bus. If there had not been so much noise around doping in athletics in the past few years I suspect even fewer blood bags would have been released in this judgement.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Race Radio on June 15, 2016, 09:39
they applied some very vague reasoning in the Armstrong case - reaching and stretching in ways that were never tested.

If Armstrong had gone to arbitration and argued against the SOL ,... there is a fairly good chance he would have won that.  But he didnt, so USADA's argument was allowed as it was the only one presented.


Will be interesting to see if WADA, UCI or any other agency wants to try it on.

Nope. Tolling the SOL is a well established legal procedure. WADA commissioned a independent review of USADA's use of it and they verified it. WADA is already exploring the possibility here, but I think that will be much harder.

Back on topic. Claissciomano = Flecha.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Joelsim on June 15, 2016, 09:58
When I first saw the news I assumed it meant ALL the blood bags, but it seems Spain is still protecting Real and Barca (and probably Nadal) and throwing Cycling under the bus. If there had not been so much noise around doping in athletics in the past few years I suspect even fewer blood bags would have been released in this judgement.

But some of the bags were 'lost in the post' years ago weren't they?

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: AG on June 15, 2016, 10:16
Nope. Tolling the SOL is a well established legal procedure. WADA commissioned a independent review of USADA's use of it and they verified it. WADA is already exploring the possibility here, but I think that will be much harder.

Back on topic. Cowboy = Flecha.

Their use of it was ok - legal and valid - but unchallenged.

They argued that Armstrong was involved in a conspiracy to defraud and dope the team - and therefore the SOL should be set aside because he actively attempted to bypass the enforcement.

His lawyers would have had a good argument against this - and it would have been interesting to see what the arbitration would have ruled.    Because he refused to go to arbitration, the panel of arbitrators decided that the arguments were valid.

Essentially if they only hear one side of the argument, its pretty likely they will go with it.   


In the case of the Operation Peurto guys, they will be actively arguing against this kind of application of SOL by-pass
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Race Radio on June 15, 2016, 10:31

In the case of the Operation Peurto guys, they will be actively arguing against this kind of application of SOL by-pass

I think it will be hard for WADA to toll the SOL with the Puerto bags as there is less evidence of efforts to obstruct official investigations.

I disagree that USADA's tolling would not have held up. WADA's independent review agreed

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-will-not-appeal-usada-decision-on-lance-armstrong/

It was not the first USADA case were the SOL was tolled, they were also successful with Hellebuyck. With Puerto WADA's strategy would likely hing on if riders lied to an official investigation. I wonder if Spain or Portugal ever really investigated it?
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on June 15, 2016, 12:15
I think it will be hard for WADA to toll the SOL with the Puerto bags as there is less evidence of efforts to obstruct official investigations.
It wasn't as much obstructing of official investigations as it was the official investigation sitting on its hands.

But I guess one could argue that this wasn't the athletes' fault.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on July 06, 2016, 08:09
https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/750508239259852801
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on July 06, 2016, 08:41
Quote
Eufemiano’s defense claims that “the bags were obtained in a patient/doctor situation, in a strictly private manner and that they should remain this way”.

To his belief turning over the bags violates the most fundamental right to privacy, intimacy and confidentiality between a patient and a doctor, and therefore since he was absolved the bags should be returned to him.

“The outcome of turning over the bags will be the public bashing of the donors only to satisfy the sick prying of some parts of society.“
He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on July 09, 2016, 16:44
He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.

I my self also am conflicted in this.

On one side I think it will be good for cycling to finally get these names out in the open, so we can close this chapter once and for all

On the other side there is also no doubt in my mind that handing over the BB's ultimately is wrong. The BB's were obtained for a different case altogether and Doping was at the time not a crime in Spain. How a legal investigations material can then later be turned over to someone else, not even with the police, is confusing to me. It seems at the core unjust.

So while whoever this injustice may hit ultimately may deserve what they get, I am not sure that I am happy with a ruling that sacrifices justice in the system for a preceived sense of justice against a few individuals.

That being said, when this will happen I do hope it will be not just cycling as well.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: LukasCPH on July 12, 2016, 13:12
He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.
They weren't classic patients with a classic doctor though. They went to Fuentes specifically to improve their athletic ability, not to treat a disease. Fuentes just happens to be a doctor (in gynaecology).
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: Flo on July 12, 2016, 23:59
They weren't classic patients with a classic doctor though. They went to Fuentes specifically to improve their athletic ability, not to treat a disease. Fuentes just happens to be a doctor (in gynaecology).
Dr Fuentes is a doctor and they went to him for medical procedures. So it is a patient-doctor relationship.
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: DB-Coop on July 13, 2016, 02:19
Again I don't really think this is the issue.

Although there could be raised the issue of sharing personally sensitive information like this, if we say this is medical information, this is not the big issue.

The big issue for me is that he was raided for one thing and now evidence taken in that case is given away to use for the prosecution of something that, at the time of the raids, was not a crime in Spain. For me that is the same as if they raided someone for drug possession and found nothing apart from the fact that he was cheating on his wife during the raid, and then decided to fax the evidence of this to his wife. Clearly what the person did was wrong, but in no way should the police do raids to collect and pass on this information.

Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on July 13, 2016, 07:20
Dr Fuentes is a doctor and they went to him for medical procedures. So it is a patient-doctor relationship.

True but he is a gynecologist, not that it matters there is patient-Dr confidentiality and at the time Doping was not illegal in Spain 
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on January 25, 2017, 09:33
https://twitter.com/Cyclingnewsfeed/status/824180753537843201
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on February 16, 2017, 08:22
https://twitter.com/Velorooms/status/832141939126452227
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 17, 2017, 11:48
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/842703761940332544
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on March 16, 2018, 15:56
https://twitter.com/friebos/status/974614444604035073
Title: Re: Operation Puerto
Post by: just some guy on July 11, 2019, 21:06
DNA testing on going and names will not be released

Hoping Fancy Bears or someone leaks the names