Velorooms - Cycling Forum

Professional Cycling => Road Races => Topic started by: t-72 on September 25, 2014, 22:41

Title: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 25, 2014, 22:41


Can't find trace of today's big announcement at the Worlds in Pontferrada so I'll just make thread for it: the world championships road racing 2017 will be hosted in Bergen, Norway. For me that will be a quite special event...my town, my hills, my sport! 

 :cool

Looking forward to seeing you all! Welcome!
And watch out for Our local heroes *no Kristoffer Skjerping and *no Odd Christian Eiking (racing at U23 worlds in Ponferrada tomorrow) , they will be inspired by this!

Will add some details about the courses planned later unless someone else does it..

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: DB-Coop on September 25, 2014, 22:58
TT's should be interesting, rain will probably play it's part.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 17, 2015, 22:10



Announcements today included a new logo and some general news, from a more sporting perspective: modified courses for most of the races including men's elite road race. Now with an extension of 3.0 km city streets and seaside near the finish that makes the distance from the climbs to the finish longer and the run-in flatter. Smells more like a sprint finish now.


The new web site for Bergen 2017 is up and running and includes good maps of all the courses.

http://bergen2017.no/ (http://bergen2017.no/)

The race organization is looking for volunteers (lots of them, and some with competence in cycling meaning you maybe should consider it). 
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: just some guy on September 18, 2015, 08:04
https://vimeo.com/66049137
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 18, 2015, 11:29
(http://i.imgur.com/7oKHURC.png) (<--- why can I only show this .png as a miniature??help!)
Fixed it for you. ;)

However, the HTML image embedding I did is only available for mods.

Post Merge: September 18, 2015, 11:30
The race organization is looking for volunteers (lots of them, and some with competence in cycling meaning you maybe should consider it).
Will they pay my accommodation? If yes, I'm game! :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: just some guy on September 18, 2015, 15:19
https://vimeo.com/139180673
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on February 20, 2017, 22:31
BUMP!

Posters like this are starting to appear in public places all over town.
(http://i.imgur.com/yqoVuXl.jpg)
Sorry for the low quality picture, it was indoors in a quite dimly lit room and I didn't know how to set flash properly :)

It is still half a year left, but I think the organization is struggling a little on local community relations - as much of the focus in the press these days are on the inconveniences.  Blocking ordinary access for cars and public transportation to some neighbourhoods for 10 days is far out of the ordinary and for those that have yet not noticed we're going to host one of the biggest yearly sports events here in this town, it comes as a shock. Now they are starting to realize the world championship is a huge event. In many people's head it probably meant "a bike race". That's as opposed to 9 days of racing....

Furthermore,  there are a few expensive seats to be sold at a VIP location near the finish line. Not sure - it is probably on a boat overlooking the finish area (which will be on the Hanseatic Wharf at Vågen, Bergen's perhaps most iconic historic location.)

The time trial course for men was changed last year - it will finish with the climb up to Fløyen. What I did not realize until I saw this poster was that in exchange they scrapped Birkelundsbakken, the other climb which now only will feature in the women's ITT. It is much shorter but it would have been a dominant feature of the course (and it wil be for the women). However, it was at the extreme end of the ~out and back course (ok..two different roads but still out and back...) - the audience wouldn't get a finish line experience if they were out there. Fløyen has the potential for massive crowds.

Here's a view from the finish area a couple of weeks ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/jJYhaT9.jpg)

This image doesn't really convey the gradient of the climb but at least you can get an idea about the general steepness of the area by showing one of the bends between the Fjellveien station and Skansemyren superimposed above the Torget marketplace.
(http://i.imgur.com/QD3Jj9M.jpg)

Now that the course will be flattish with a steep finish, it doesn't look like Tony Martin and Jonathan Castroviejo territory anymore and depending on who shows up and how motivated they are for the worlds, it could be between Chris Froome, Riche Porte, Tom Dumoulin, Thibaut Pinot and the Letalnica survivor. And the russian guy who only wins uphill time trials - I think it is too much of a flat start for him but Ilnur Zakharin might be as happy as Pinot for the lack of serious downhill here.
 
EDIT: The Sollien climb has been renamed once again and is now known as Salmon hill.

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Comlite31 on April 19, 2017, 09:21
I am looking forward to that.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on April 26, 2017, 22:58
*be cyclists Oliver Naesen, Yves Lampaert, Jolien D'Hoore and Ann-Sophie Duyck spotted in Bergen today, testing the course for the worlds with a few local riders from #fixit and an entourage of police guards and *be cycling boss Kevin De Weert. According to reports in the local media they tested both the road race and time trial loop courses + Naesen and Lampaert also did the Fløyen climb which will be the last part of the ITT.
Their evaluation is different from the dutch team's evaluation: The Belgians said that the road race loop was not as hard as expected and might be perfect for strong sprinters like *no Kristoff. On the other hand, the climb to Fløyen which will be used in the men's ITT was much harder than expected. Lampaert said it would favor strong climbers that can also hold a high speed on the flat section,  *uk Froome, *au Dennis and  *nl Dumoulin.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on August 30, 2017, 22:23
Hi again, chairmen of the board!
Despite warnings from the system I will spam this thread with updates from Bergen (small and large) in the next month!

1. whoever wins the world championship remains to be seen, but now I got the world's cup!  ;) (yes that's the official :P )
(http://i.imgur.com/vWVYX3g.jpg)

2. Friday night out for a beer we spotted these guys redoing the crucial 100 degree curve at intersection between Kong Oscarsgate and Vetrlidsalmenningen. There has been some roadworks in the area, supposedly they have been installing some booby trap equipment called a "Quit-a-Kowski"  :angel
(http://i.imgur.com/jWw0ttT.jpg)

3. Spotted today: came back into town (by car) in the afternoon after travels and blocked the road for #coop August Jensen training on a hill just next to my house. August is not Norway's best hope but depsite being from the northern town of Bodø his adress for the past 2 years has been on the descent section of the "salmon hill". In other words...got to be our "local hero"< for the breakaway!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on August 31, 2017, 18:57
I've got a week booked off work just so that I can watch most of it.  :cool

I'll miss the TTTs, but it was either miss that day's competition or the one on the very last day.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on August 31, 2017, 20:00
I'll miss the TTTs, but it was either miss that day's competition or the one on the very last day.
No contest.
TTTs vs. elite RR? I know what I'd choose.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on August 31, 2017, 21:46
As we are a pretty diverse forum with respect to which country we are from...
Can I ask you to post your teams as they become available, please? Note the plural, I know some people here aren't that bugged with their citizenship and quite supportive of different teams. Write your heart out  :D

PS: I have put teams up in the order of the races (disregarding the TTT). Copy my setup as a template if you wish...
PPS: you are allowed to highlight your favorites / captains :)

*no Norway's teams
It is not all about the captains in the men's elite road race: Our two best domestic teams, #hitec and #joker are dominant across all classes in norway's line up, and may provide the best results for Norway in this championship. Smaller teams like #coop and #tss, #unox may also play an important role. While #champeu Kristoff and Boasson Hagen both get a qualified chance at the men's elite road race, they can only win if the terrible twins of  *pl and  *sk (Kwiatkowski and #rainbow Sagan) doesn't. Norway has better chances in the men's junior's time trial (#champeu Leknessund) and men's U23 road race (#rainbow Halvorsen).
Our women can't be expected to produce similar results but Susanne Andersen is an outside bet for a podium.


Monday, September 18:
Women's juniors individual time trial: riders yet to be announced
Men's U23 individual time trial: #joker Iver Knotten, #joker Tobias Foss


Tuesday, September 19
Men's juniors individual time trial: Olav Hjelmsæter Søren Wærenskjold, #champeu Andreas Leknessund, Idar Andersen
Women's elite individual time trial: #hitec Vita Heine, #hitec Thea Thorsen


Wednesday, September 20
Men's elite individual time trial: #didata Edvald Boasson Hagen, #tss Andreas Vangstad


Thursday, September 21:
Lay day - the road race course will be open for training in the morning.


Friday, September 22
Women's juniors road race: team not announced yet...
Men's U23 road race: #rainbows #joker Kristoffer Halvorsen, #joker Anders Skaarseth, #joker  #champno Rasmus Tiller, #unox Syver Wærsted, #joker Tobias Foss, #joker Ole Forfang.


Saturday, September 23
Men's juniors road race: Olav Hjelmsæter Søren Wærenskjold, Andreas Leknessund, Idar Andersen, Jonas Iversby Hvideberg, Ludvig Fischer Aasheim
Women's elite road race:  #hitec Vita Heine, #hitec Emilie Moberg, #hitec Susanne Andersen, #hitec Katrine Aalerud. 2 more riders to be announced later.


Sunday, September 24
Men's elite road race: #champeu #katusha Aleksander Kristoff, #didata Edvald Boasson Hagen, #jumbo Amund Grøndahl Jansen, #uae Vegard Stake Laengen, #fdj Daniel Hoelgaard, #coop August Jensen, #astana Truls Korsæth, #fdj Odd Christian Eiking, #katusha Sven Erik Bystrøm*
* #joker Markus Hoelgaard (brother of Daniel) may step in if Bystrøm is not recovering well from a broken shoulderblade in the Vuelta
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on August 31, 2017, 22:19
Thursday, September 21:
Lay day - the road race course will be open for training in the morning.
I trust you've taken that day off and will be on the course yourself? :D
Seriously, if at all possible, try to do that. I did it in 2011, and it was quite cool. Riding in a group with a.o. Teklehaimanot, and later even sitting on the wheel of van Avermaet ... :cool
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 01, 2017, 05:19
and later even sitting on the wheel of van Avermaet ... for about 25 metres before I got dropped

Fixed for accuracy. :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 01, 2017, 11:24
Fixed for accuracy. :D
:lol

Lies, terrible lies ... Vansummeren went for a pee, and they soft-pedaled for about half a lap (of 14 km) to let him catch up. It was only when he was back and they went up Geels Bakke at what must have been an easy-peasy speed for them - but way too fast for me.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 02, 2017, 12:55
Today's little appetizer:
The men's elite individual time trial on wednesday, September 20th will feature a very unusual finish up the Mount Fløyen. The climb starts right in the middle of downtown Bergen, and takes you to the city's most famous viewpoint. It's 3.4 kilometers at 9.1% average. Local cyclist Bo-Andre Namtvedt (former 2x Norwegian champion) shows you what it looks like in this video, courtesy of local paper BA:
https://www.ba.no/floyen/sport/sykkel-vm/vm-tempoen-i-bergen-far-en-meget-spektakular-avslutning-opp-floyen/v/5-8-639283
Look for the first and the final part of the climb! The middle is a bit easier and the very last meters are flattish.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 02, 2017, 17:38
Any news of which teams will be riding the TTT? I know the UCI and teams settled (some of) their differences and there won't be a boycott, but I know Lotto-Soudal won't be riding for example.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 02, 2017, 19:24
Any news of which teams will be riding the TTT?
Not really, no.
All I can give you is this link to this document (http://uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/18/33/84/QuotasBergen_2017_27_aout_ENG_English.pdf) that's a.o. listing the invited/qualified teams[1], and specifying that teams need to confirm their participation by 22 August (so almost two weeks ago).
Oh, and on top of that, teams from the organising nation may enter whether they're qualified or not, plus up to 10 wildcards may be given to non-qualified teams who file a participation request.

By the way, nations also had to confirm the quota for the men's RR (albeit by 31 August), with non-confirmed places being redistributed.

It would be great to see a list of which nations will actually participate, and with how many riders (and which teams will actually go for the TTT) - but hey, this is only the pinnacle event of our sport, so who really cares. :fp
 1. the difference between invited & qualified teams being that the invited teams (WT + six best PCTs) get a participation allowance while the rest have to pay their own way
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 04, 2017, 20:38
It's not my team, but I noticed they had made their selection, so here it is.

*be

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DI4MJ28WAAAx__G.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DI4wPVbXYAA6JfJ.jpg)

Evenepoel is a first year junior, but is on a hot streak recently. He's signed to ride for Axeon in 2019
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: search on September 04, 2017, 20:58
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DI5WpxIWAAEFgth.jpg:large)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 04, 2017, 21:10
It's not my team, but I noticed they had made their selection, so here it is.

*be

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DI4MJ28WAAAx__G.jpg)


 :S Yikes! Need more booby traps for installation immediately.

Wellens is a fantastic racer to bring along for Bergen. Hope he is motivated. In certain conditions not completely unexpected here he can win this solo with a 13 minutes gap. In all other conditions he is just the guy up there in the break, but that is it. Having such a strong team means you can pack one with a different specialty. 

As for which conditions? Let me remind you of what Salmon hill looked like, last year. Tour des Fjords 2016, stage 1:

 https://youtu.be/HeNIpdmvoaY

Here is Løbergsveien, other side of the valley, same race/day:

 https://youtu.be/zIqGjJRL7_c

We think it rains a lot in Bergen. There's hardly any city in Europe with comparable statistics, I have been told), but to put it in perspective: Houston just got about half a year of Bergen precipitation in less than one week. Anyway, which is the wet month in Bergen? All of them - but September is the worst,  on average! Belgium takes a chance, and can win with Wellens Weather in Bergen. UK people take it as a reminder: Wet-  Wellingtons .  Wellens!

 

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 04, 2017, 21:22
On a slightly less serious note, I had a quite relaxed evening ride around 3/4 of the circuit course today (skipping the downtown part). A lot of traffic furniture has been removed and replaced by temporary installations which I presume they will remove, to make the course safer, on race days. This includes:

I might come back to the Løbergalleen to Minde descent (I would need to bring a camera). It is not steep but there are a few difficulties; narrow road with speedbumps on the first part of the descent, then a roundabout which has been removed followed by a wide-road S-curve section where the curves are "off camber" (is that correct english?) I mean - the road actually drops to the outside of the bends at least on the first curve in the S)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 04, 2017, 21:27
If he was allowed to ride for himself, I'd quite fancy the chances of Stuyven, but he's probably 4th or 5th in line...

Those graphics don't have the TT picks for whatever reason.

Elite Men

Campenaerts
Lampaert
De Plus

U23 Men

Leysen
Van Hooydonck

Junior Men

Grignard
Van Wilder

Elite Women

Duyck

Junior Women

Bossuyt
Castrique
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: search on September 04, 2017, 21:30
The Colombians have announced parts of their team as well. Fernando Gaviria will be supported by Rigoberto Urán, Sergio & Sebastián Henao, Járlinson Pantano, Jhonatan Restrepo and Nairo Quintana. The two remaining spots will be decided between Miguel Ángel López, Esteban Chaves, Darwin Atapuma, Sebastián Molano, Nelson Soto and Aristóbulo Cala.

http://www.federacioncolombianadeciclismo.com/federacion/seleccion-colombia-manzana-postobon-para-el-campeonato-mundial-de-ruta-noruega-2017/
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 08, 2017, 18:54
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61067/mondial-la-selection-definitive-de-la-suisse

*ch

Elite Hommes :
Contre-la-montre :
Stefan Küng (BMC Racing Team)
Reto Hollenstein (Katusha-Alpecin)

Course en ligne :
Michael Albasini (Orica-Scott)
Silvan Dillier (BMC Racing Team)
Stefan Küng (BMC Racing Team)
Fabian Lienhard (Team Vorarlberg)
Gregory Rast (Trek-Segafredo)
Michael Schär (BMC Racing Team)

Elite Féminines :
Contre-la-montre :
Ramona Forchini (Strüby-BiXS Team)
Marlen Reusser (RV Ersigen)

Course en ligne :
Ramona Forchini (Strüby-BiXS Team)
Nicole Hanselmann (Cervélo-Bigla Pro Cycling Team)
Linda Indergand (Focus XC Eliteteam)

Espoirs Hommes :
Contre-la-montre :
Marc Hirschi (BMC Development Team) -notre photo-
Martin Schäppi (BMC Development Team)

Course en ligne :
Marc Hirschi (BMC Development Team)
Gino Mäder (VC Mendrisio-PL Valli)
Patrick Müller ( BMC Development Team)
Lukas Rüegg (Team Hörmann)

Juniors Hommes :
Contre-la-montre :
Mauro Schmid ( VC Steinmaur)
Valère Thiébaud (Zeta Cycling Club Colombier)

Course en ligne :
Ruben Eggenberg (RSC Aaretal Münsingen)
Mauro Schmid (VC Steinmaur)
Valère Thiébaud (Zeta Cycling Club Colombier)
Alex Vogel (Team Raiffeisen Aadorf – Elgg)
Alexandre Balmer (Cimes-Cycle La Chaux-de-Fonds)

Juniors Féminines :
Contre-la-montre :
Lara Krähemann (jb BRUNEX Felt Team)

Course en ligne :
Lara Krähemann (jb BRUNEX Felt Team)


I'd have liked to seen Albasini give the race a real go, but his lack of racing since the TdF makes me think this isn't a target.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 08, 2017, 19:05
The two remaining spots will be decided between Miguel Ángel López, Esteban Chaves, Darwin Atapuma, Sebastián Molano, Nelson Soto and Aristóbulo Cala.

http://www.federacioncolombianadeciclismo.com/federacion/nelson-soto-y-sebastian-molano-completan-la-nomina-elite-para-el-mundial-de-ruta-2017/

Soto and Molano get the nod.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 11, 2017, 11:23
I am so excited  :D
Streets are being marked as off limits to parking of vehicles, and barriers are being put in place-

https://twitter.com/Dir_Sportif/status/907044709905915909

(A bit of a bummer, it's the symmetrical inverted Y-foot design which have caused so many racing accidents over the past few years...should have had the assymetric L[/]-foot design which is a lot safer for racers.)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 11, 2017, 11:28
...and add to that, today's long-term weather forecast: dry until wednesday 20th (end of prediction period, wait 4 more days for sunday 24th..)
I wouldn't count on it, pack your umbrellas!

(https://i.imgur.com/baYrIfD.jpg)

I live inside the loop of the road race parcours, and as you can see we don't need to wait for Peter Sagan to come back from Canada to see double rainbows over the racecourse. Picture from Saturday evening, that's Mount Ulriken aka "Salmon Hill) on the right and the pot of gold in the Kalfaret descent section.)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Caruut on September 11, 2017, 14:59
The curves are "off camber" (is that correct english?)

I think "adverse camber" is more common, but I got what you meant and I think you can use it.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 11, 2017, 23:12
Today's curiosa 1: election day in Norway today, results from Bergen delayed in arrival due to roadworks, preparing for the worlds....

Today's curiosa 2: the pilots in SAS are on strike, there's no way they havent't timed it for maximum chaos....(election, world championship etc going on at the same time...)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 12, 2017, 09:38
Ooh, barriers!

(A bit of a bummer, it's the symmetrical inverted Y-foot design which have caused so many racing accidents over the past few years...should have had the assymetric L-foot design which is a lot safer for racers.)
Money, money, money ...
There just aren't that many of the L barriers around, and when you simply say "we need barriers to block off X km of race parcours", they will bring what they have - which is the inverted Y in 98% of the cases.

They simply didn't bother to think of rider safety. And why should they, it's only the most important thing in the whole sport.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Not My Circus on September 12, 2017, 11:30
 *dk for Bergen

TT Elite Women
#bigla Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig
#tvc Pernille Mathiesen

RR Elite Women
#boels Amalie Dideriksen
#bigla Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig
#wiggle Julie Leth 
#lsl Trine Schmidt
#tvc Pernille Mathiesen
#tvc Camilla Møllebro Pedersen
#tvc Christina Siggaard

TT U19 Women
Emma Norsgaard
Caroline Bohé

RR U19 Women
Emma Norsgaard
Caroline Bohé

TT Elite Men
#bornholm Martin Toft Madsen
#aquablue Lasse Norman Hansen

RR Elite Men
#astana Michael Valgren
#orica Magnus Cort
#orica Chris Juul Jensen
#sunweb Søren Kragh Andersen
#trek Mads Pedersen
#katusha Michael Mørkøv

TT U23 Men
#virtu Kasper Asgreen
#roskilde Mikkel Bjerg
#roskilde Mathias Norsgaard Jørgensen

RR U23 Men
#roskilde Casper Pedersen
#roskilde Mikkel Bjerg
#virtu Kasper Asgreen
#virtu Michael Carbel
#lottou23 Mikkel Frølich Honoré
#riwal Jonas Gregaard Wilsly

TT U19 Men
Julius Johansen
Johan Price-Pejtersen

RR U19 Men
Julius Johansen
Johan Price-Pejtersen
Ludvig Anton Wacker
Mattias Skjelmose
Jacob Hindsgaul
Johan Langballe
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Not My Circus on September 12, 2017, 11:49
Because every sporting event needs one  :cool

Official Music Video 2017 UCI Road World Championships

https://youtu.be/hmhVf9Vsd0o

And what else does every sporting event need?

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 12, 2017, 21:07
*br

http://bike76.com/2017/09/cbc-convoca-tres-jovens-ciclistas-para-mundial-de-ciclismo-de-estrada-da-noruega/

U23 Men

Caio Godoy

Junior Men

Leonardo Finkler

Junior Women

Nicolle Wendy Borges

Introducing Apa

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2z7hr0j.jpg)

Apa or Max? I've seen him called both.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Echoes on September 12, 2017, 22:19
Dylan Teuns enjoys first selection for the Worlds.

(Le Soir - 8 September)

(http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/37/x64m.png)


Dylan Teuns is the summer revelation. He raced his first Canadian classics and will race his first Worlds. He's living in a dream, awaken.
Quote
But I'm making it clear that it will be at my leader's service: Greg Van Avermaet. I can only have a free role at the Wallonia GP


I'm still baffled that De Weert left Sep Vanmarcke at home. It's just incomprehensible.  :angry
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 12, 2017, 23:16
Ok, I will start a little warm-up for the starting event on Sunday. It will be the team time trials, or "lagtempo" as it is called in our quasi-italian cycling lingo!

The race starts on Askøy, home of #fdj favorite son Odd Christian Eiking. He'll be throwing a big party on the Saturday night and make sure #fdj get enough beer to be out of contention.
That will probably eliminate the home favorite making this a close match between the usual suspects. However, I think it can be an interesting race to watch, as it is not an easy course for TTT, especially the first 18 km.

The thing is, there isn't very much flat on these islands. It doesn't go a long way up or a long way down, the whole course is less than 100m above sea level. However, it rises and falls all the time, in short hills of varying steepness. Keeping a team together will be challenging as the weaker climbers may be distanced at least on the more intesene climbs, such as "the Burma road" from Loddefjord.

After "Burma road", the course is flatter along some lakes, around Bønes,  into Fjøsanger, and from there it starts climbing again, with the main obstacle of the course being Birkelundsbakken at approx km 30. From the top of Birkelundsbakken, we get more traditional TTT course with a very fast descent right at the beginning (to the start of Salmon hill, although they are not going up there). From there it is both flatter, some false-flattish terrain even, then theslow descent in Kalfaret[1] following the same route as the road races will use later towards the finish line after a couple of innercity corners that will cost some teams seconds.

(https://d2o9doy8pqmlel.cloudfront.net/media/l/1170x1170/1504441216/bergen2017-1-ttt-v4.jpg)

The favorites....someone please fill in here :)



I did part of the parcours today, and noticed that barriers were standing ready in some critical intersections, but saw no teams out to play.   
 1. yes, it is slow, something with a very rough road surface or less gradient than it looks - I just can't go really fast there, even if there are no major obstacles. Clever teams save some power for this descent.....
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 13, 2017, 08:15
The favorites....someone please fill in here :)   

I still don't know which teams have accepted or asked for (and been given) an invitation, but it will be the usual suspects towards the top.

:onfire1 :onfire1 :onfire1 BMC

:onfire1 :onfire1 Quickstep

:onfire1 Orica, Sky, LottoNL, Sunweb
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Not My Circus on September 13, 2017, 09:02

Apa or Max? I've seen him called both.

It was Apa on the Bergen website, I kinda like Max though - I shall refer to his as such :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 13, 2017, 09:22
Lotto S U23 Mikkel Frølich Honoré
We didn't have a separate kit smiley for the U23 team? :o
We do now! :cool
#lottou23 # lottou23

Also, #veloconcept # veloconcept (men) & #tvw # tvw (women) are now #virtu # virtu (men) & #tvc # tvc (women). :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 13, 2017, 09:51
I still don't know which teams have accepted or asked for (and been given) an invitation
And why should the UCI communicate such a list of teams, after all it's still a whole four days to go ... :fp
Same about the entries for the road races - who cares which countries confirmed their quota and which didn't, it's only the Worlds. :fp


But, lo and behold, if you look hard enough you can find the entry lists buried deep on the UCI website (http://www.uci.ch/road/ucievents/2017-road-uci-road-world-championships/111129017/widgets/entries-start-lists-results-183670/).
By the way, these were made on 5 September already, but nobody found it worthwhile to alert the greater public. :fp


Anyway, without further ado, let me present the glamourous lists of teams entering the two TTT events:

Women's TTT
#bepink BePink Cogeas (WWT)
#boels Boels Dolmans Cyclingteam (WWT)
#btc BTC City Ljubljana (WWT)
#canyon Canyon SRAM Racing (WWT)
#bigla Cervélo-Bigla Pro Cycling Team (WWT)
#futuroscope FDJ Nouvelle Aquitaine Futuroscope (WWT)
#hitec Hitec Products (WWT)
#sun Team Sunweb (WWT)
#tvc Team Virtu Cycling (WWT)

Men's TTT
#astana Astana Pro Team (WT)
#bmc BMC Racing Team (WT)
#bora Bora-hansgrohe (WT)
#movistar Movistar Team (WT)
#orica Orica-Scott (WT)
#quickstep Quick-Step Floors (WT)
#katusha Team Katusha Alpecin (WT)
#jumbo Team LottoNL-Jumbo (WT)
#sky Team Sky (WT)
#sunweb Team Sunweb (WT)
#trek Trek-Segafredo (WT)
#ccc CCC Sprandi Polkowice (PCT)
#joker Joker Icopal (CT)
#sangemini Sangemini-MG.K Vis (CT)
#fixit Team FixIT.no (CT)
#sparsor Team Sparebanken Sør (CT)
#unox Uno-X Hydrogen Development Team (CT)

Where's the rest, you say? Well ... that's it.
15 teams were invited on the women's side, 8 of those accepted. 10 more could apply for an invitation, only 1 did. So, let's give a round of applause for #tvc Team Virtu Cycling!

On the men's side, things look considerably bleaker: 11 of 18 invited WT teams make the trip to Bergen (which isn't so bad). But below that, none of the 6 invited PCTs bother to come, only 1 of 12 qualified PCTs has accepted, and the same is true for Conti teams: Here, it's only 1 of 14 qualified teams. To boost the numbers, the five Norwegian CTs also 'qualified', and four of those will in fact line up. The only one giving the event a pass is #coop - is the Stavanger-Bergen rivalry so large that they'd voluntarily not race a world championship? Have they finished their season already? Or did they just not want to become a fig's leaf for the UCI by participating in this failing event?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 13, 2017, 09:56
TTT parcours analysis by our resident Bergenser
This is why it's great to have people 'on the ground' who know every inch of the course! :cool
Tusen takk!

In another matter, do you know why the finish line was moved from Bryggen to Festplassen?
And do you happen to know which part of the RR circuit will be designated as feed zone? In 2011, they had the feed zone on the lower part of Geels Bakke, effectively cancelling out one of the two climbs of the parcours as everyone would be going slow to get bottles and stuff. I'm convinced this participated in making the races as sprinter-friendly as they were; had there been a possibility to cannon up this hill every lap, Cav & co. would have been noticeably more tired.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 13, 2017, 18:19
*ca

http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews.php?id=33036
http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews.php?id=33006


Elite Men

Houle
Duchesne
Boivin

TT: Britton, Houle

U23 Men

Jack Burke - Squamish, BC [Aevolo]
Pier-Andre Cote - St-Henri de Levis, QC [Silber Pro]
Alec Cowan - Calgary, AB [Silber]
Marc-Antoine Soucy - Amos, QC [Silber/Garneau-Quebecor]
Nickolas Zukowsky - Ste Agathe, QC [Silber Pro]

TT: Cowan, Burke

Junior Men

Charles-Etienne Chretien - Amos, QC [IAM Gold]
Michael Foley - Milton, ON [La Bicicletta]
Kurt Penno - Brandon, MB [Trek-Red Truck]
Graydon Staples - Orillia, ON [Toronto Hustle]

TT: Chretien, Staples

Elite Women

Lex Albrecht - Montreal, QC [Tibco-SVB]
Sara Bergen - Coquitlam, BC [Rally]
Karol-Ann Canuel - Gatineau, QC [Boels-Dolemans]
Alison Jackson - Vermilion, AB [BePink - Cogeas]
Leah Kirchmann - Winnipeg, MB [Team Sunweb]
Kirsti Lay - Montreal, QC [Rally]

TT: Canuel, Kirchmann

Junior Women

Erin Attwell - Victoria, BC [Trek-Red Truck]
Simone Boilard - Quebec City, QC [Desjardins-Ford]
Maggie Coles-Lyster - Maple Ridge, BC [TAG]
Laurie Jussaume - Contrecour, QC [VC Contrecour]

TT: Attwell, Jussaume
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 13, 2017, 21:37
More spam posts from Bergen  :D
Cycling home from work today, I detoured from Fjøsanger up Christian Michelsensveg, following the TTT course towards the soon-to-be-infamous Birkelundsbakken. The barriers are already in place (quite a lot of them, even where the road is fenced off from the sidewalk, they have put the barriers on the outside of the fence...?? Maybe it's a designated height for commercial banners to be added later or something. Safetywise I can't see why?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4410/36812179360_60dd5fa021_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Y5Y3pA)Birkelundsbakken upper half (https://flic.kr/p/Y5Y3pA)

From the top of Birkelundsbakken it is a quick downhill (quite recently resurfaced so now even faster than I remembered it) to the start of Salmon hill, so I decided to go up there too. I was halfway expecting to be passed by lightning on the way but it seems there are no-one training in the evening, although it was far from dark yet.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4355/36373148574_ae0c7b2490_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XqaTRh)Salmon hilltop in usual conditions... (https://flic.kr/p/XqaTRh) please zoom in for authentic details, no photoshop!

PS: Off the top of my head none of the races do Birkelundsbakken then Salmon hill, it is either-or. Birkelundsbakken is shorter but steeper and thus perhaps more selective than Salmon hill.

Birkelundsbakken will be used in TTTs, and for men's junior, men's U23 and women elite's ITT. In the road races all classes will use the Salmon hill. Women junior's ITT won't do any of them.
 
EDIT: did you see the double rainbows on the first picture?? second time I have seen it over the course this week. Signs of Sagan, a prophetic win may be coming up?  :lol
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 13, 2017, 21:59
This is why it's great to have people 'on the ground' who know every inch of the course! :cool
Tusen takk!

In another matter, do you know why the finish line was moved from Bryggen to Festplassen?
And do you happen to know which part of the RR circuit will be designated as feed zone? In 2011, they had the feed zone on the lower part of Geels Bakke, effectively cancelling out one of the two climbs of the parcours as everyone would be going slow to get bottles and stuff. I'm convinced this participated in making the races as sprinter-friendly as they were; had there been a possibility to cannon up this hill every lap, Cav & co. would have been noticeably more tired.

I am not 100% sure they ever really moved the finish to Bryggen. Last year's Tour de Fjords and the Norwegian Championship a few years further back used it (for a criterium race which is part of the championships. At the time of the Tour des Fjords the understanding was that the finish would be at Bryggen, but perhaps some problems were identified. My speculation would be, since there has been nothing in the press about it, that it is due to public safety concerns and possibly also a concern for the world heritage site at Bryggen.

(In general, the organizers have been organizing things very quietly and has failed to use the local press to rally support for the event. The press has had a negative focus for a long time with concerns about traffic and parking. It is not a large city but very many everyday tasks needs to be solved completely differently because of the worlds, and that generates some frustration. If anything, now, finally this week it looks like someone here who's not yours truly everyday cyclingfan  may be looking forward to this with a positive attitude. Monday at work was people moaning "how the f12# am I going to get my kids to kindergarten and school?" to "where are the best places to watch?" on Tuesday.)

I am moderate optimist by now, and the weather forecast is quite good for the first weekend and the workdays following, road race weekend prognosis is not published yet.At leat I am really looking forward to this!  :D

Feedzones are marked on the map here, they are in the most eventless flat sections on either side of the valley: Løbergsveien and Årstadveien.

(https://d2o9doy8pqmlel.cloudfront.net/media/l/1170x1170/1504441212/bergen2017-3-rrcircuit-v6.jpg)

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 13, 2017, 22:16

#joker Joker Icopal (CT)
#fixit Team FixIT.no (CT)
#sparsor Team Sparebanken Sør (CT)
#unox Uno-X Hydrogen Development Team (CT)

To boost the numbers, the five Norwegian CTs also 'qualified', and four of those will in fact line up. The only one giving the event a pass is #coop - is the Stavanger-Bergen rivalry so large that they'd voluntarily not race a world championship? Have they finished their season already? Or did they just not want to become a fig's leaf for the UCI by participating in this failing event?

Out these, only #joker has a decent squad for a TTT, but if it had been Bergen 2015 they would have had #uae Vegard Stake Laengen,  #astana Truls Korsæth and #jumbo Amund Grøndahl Jansen with them, and their good teamwork is always good for a Conti squad. Quite sure that vintage would have given some of the WT squads a scare!

The current #joker vintage has better climbers and better sprinters but maybe not the roleurs that featured in the 2015 vintage.

#coop dropout, I think Jensen wanted to save his firepower for the road race. The team doesn't have the depth to compare with the WT squads.

#fixit do it because they can, the team is without sponsors for next year and this is one of their last races.

#unox are mostly youngsters (they self-identify as a development squad) and they are probably doing it because...you know, racing with the pros in the World Championship is cool!  :D

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 13, 2017, 22:37
I am not 100% sure they ever really moved the finish to Bryggen. Last year's Tour de Fjords and the Norwegian Championship a few years further back used it (for a criterium race which is part of the championships. At the time of the Tour des Fjords the understanding was that the finish would be at Bryggen, but perhaps some problems were identified. My speculation would be, since there has been nothing in the press about it, that it is due to public safety concerns and possibly also a concern for the world heritage site at Bryggen.
When the route was presented, I remember it as finishing on Bryggen. And the Tour des Fjords stage of peloton-deroute and bus-on-racecourse infamy did finish there.

I get why they didn't put the Worlds finish there, though: There's simply not much room for infrastructure, podiums, and spectator stands up there, or not without destroying the charm of Bryggen. Better to pass it with 1 km to go and have the races finish in the 'modern' centre.

(https://d2o9doy8pqmlel.cloudfront.net/media/l/1170x1170/1504441212/bergen2017-3-rrcircuit-v6.jpg)
About that map ... I tried to retrace the route and come up with alternatives, e.g. combining Birkelundsbakken and Laksebakken (because that's what I do for fun) - but the part between Festplassen and the bridge across Damgårdssundet just seems to be impossible to map on RideWithGPS and/or other mapping tools.
They appear to be using a tunnel underneath Universitet/Muséhagen and then go onto the 555? But how? No matter what I try, I can't get the site/program to follow the road(s) that the Worlds apparently use. :slow[1]
 1. By the way, I have a similar problem with the Arctic Race circuit in Narvik that apparently crosses the ore harbour facilities on a road/bridge/footpath that isn't on Google Maps nor OSM, and doesn't show on satellite images either :S
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 13, 2017, 23:42
(caution: numbers nerdery coming up!)

I've had a look at the men's road race entry list and tried to reverse-engineer a list of which countries will be starting with how many riders[1] - including which countries don't participate despite being qualified, and which countries do participate on a reallocated quota despite not being qualified:

Country Qualified Entered Starters
Australia 9 14 9
Belgium 9 14 9
France 9 14 9
Germany 9 14 9
Italy 9 14 9
Spain 9 14 9
Colombia 9 13 8-9
Great Britain 9 13 8-9
Netherlands 9 13 8-9
Norway 9 13 8-9
Czech Republic 6 9 6
Denmark 6 9 6
Portugal 6 9 6
Slovenia 6 9 6
Switzerland 6 9 6
USA 6 9 6
Ireland 6 7 4-6
Russia 6 7 4-6
Slovakia 6 7 4-6
Poland 6 6 3-6
Austria 3 6 3
Kazakhstan 3 6 3
Belarus 3 5 3
Eritrea 3 5 3
Luxembourg 3 5 3
New Zealand 3 5 3
Estonia 3 4 2-3
South Africa 3 3 3
Ukraine 3 2 1-2
Canada 3 0 0
Latvia 1 4 2 a
Argentina 1 2 1-2 f
Japan 1 2 1-2 h
Lithuania 1 2 1-2 d
Morocco 1 2 1-2 b
Sweden 1 2 1-2 j
Venezuela 1 2 1-2 e
Azerbaijan 1 1 1
Costa Rica 1 1 1 g
Romania 1 1 1 c
Rwanda 1 1 1 i
Algeria 1 0 0
Brazil 1 0 0
Croatia 1 0 0
Ecuador 1 0 0
Iran 1 0 0
Rep. Korea 1 0 0
PR China 1 0 0
Tunisia 1 0 0
Turkey 1 0 0
Hong Kong 0 1 1

The table should be relatively self-explanatory. The exact rules for reallocation of unused quotas can be found here (http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/17/80/65/Syst%C3%A8medequalification2017-FINAL-ENG-withTTT_English.PDF), this document also includes a table that correlates the number of starters with the maximum number of riders that nation may send in as entries (i.e., including reserves): A nation with 9 starters may enter 14 riders, one with 6 starters may enter 9, etc.

Since the UCI doesn't deign the public worthy of being privy to the various nations' quotas post-confirmatin-and-reallocation, I had to put in a range instead of a fixed number for some countries (e.g. 8-9 for Norway or 1-2 for Argentina) since I do not know if they entered fewer riders than they could, but still use their full quota, or if they don't use their full quota and therefore couldn't enter as many riders as they could if they did[2]. If the number in the second column (qualified) is the larger limit of the range (as for *co *uk *nl *no *ie *ru *sk *pl), we shall assume that the national team coach just didn't find enough riders worthy or willing, but did still confirm the maximum number of starters. If, however, the number in the second column is the smaller limit of the range (*ar *jp *lt *ma *ve), there are two possibilities: Either the country has entered two riders of whom only one will start, or the country had notified the UCI that they would accept extra places reallocated from countries who declined to use them, thus earned a second starting spot, but opted to still only enter two riders who will then (barring accident or injury) both start.[3]

With this caveat about my working method out of the way, I'll step into interpretative territory. Almost. First, we can see in the table that a number of nations didn't enter any riders at all despite being qualified - specifically, *ca *dz *br *hr *ec *ir *kr *cn *tn *tr, to a total of 12 unused places. These would be reallocated to countries ranked 51st and lower in the World Nations Ranking on 15 August, reaching down all the way to 63rd-ranked Burkina Faso, and in reality even further since not all countries might want to go to the Worlds after all (for various reasons). In fact, only one does want to go, and that's Hong Kong. *hk King Lok Cheung thus got an entry into the Worlds RR.

And now, interpretative territory, for good:
I can deduct from the table that only one nation (*lv) has definitely entered more riders than they would be allowed to as per their qualified quota. I can also see that only one nation (*ua) has definitely entered fewer riders than they is their qualified quota. I therefore assume that all other nations with a smaller number of entries than their qualified quota would have allowed them to will make full use of their qualified quota - meaning that there was only one place to reallocate via this method (to nations placed 31st-50th), the one not used by Ukraine, and this place went to Latvia.

For a conclusion, I can only impress on all nations ranked below 30th that in the future, if they want to send someone to a world championship, they shoud eagerly confirm that they're willing to make use of otherwise unused spots.
While it's a gamble for those in places 31-50 as there may not be so many places to redistribute here (you either go to Worlds with as many as you can, or you don't go at all[4], it's still a gamble that's worthwhile. It doesn't cost you anything, and it could double your number of starters, with all that that entails.
For those ranked below 50th place, it's a no-brainer (provided they have a rider capable of racing the Worlds, and the money to send him there): There are 12 unused spots this year, and I expect the number to be somewhere in this area in the future as well. Only 1 of those spots was reallocated since there just weren't any takers for the rest, meaning that as long as you're ranked in the World Ranking, it almost doesn't matter where. If you notify the UCI that, yes, you'd take a reallocated quota for the Worlds, you can be very confident that you'll get one. If only they (or their federation) wanted to, riders from e.g. Mongolia, Finland, Burkina Faso, Namibia[5], Antigua & Barbuda, Kosovo, Thailand, Taiwan, the UAE, India, and the DR Congo could all have lined up in Bergen next week.
 1. because the UCI doesn't bother giving us that
 2. confused yet?
 3. if you're still not confused now, you have my utmost admiration
 4. do you hear me, Cycling Australia's women elite selectors!!! :fp
 5. I'm still me, right? ;)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: search on September 14, 2017, 06:53
thanks. According to Leadbelly's post above Canada does indeed plan to use the three starting spots though
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 14, 2017, 08:40
According to Leadbelly's post above Canada does indeed plan to use the three starting spots though
Hm.
I double-checked the rules:
Quote
9.2.004
The enrolment of the federations’ riders shall reach the UCI at the latest within the following deadlines:
- Road: Men’s Elite Races: eight days before the first race of the championship;
"The first race" are the TTTs on the 17th, so "eight days before" was the 9th September.
The entry list from the UCI website was updated 12th September.
Canada isn't on there.

By my logic, that means they didn't enter anyone - and so can't start.

Of course, we don't know any of this for sure, because the UCI doesn't tell us who confirmed their quota, who didn't, who filed their enrolment, and who didn't - apparently that's proprietary information. :fp
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 14, 2017, 08:55
(caution: numbers nerdery coming up!)...

My favourite thing!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 14, 2017, 18:25
I think Jensen wanted to save his firepower for the road race.

Don't tell me he's going to be riding for himself too?!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 14, 2017, 21:18
Don't tell me he's going to be riding for himself too?!

I'd like to see him in an early move, like Kristoff in the London Olympics. He's not a probable winner but someone that can mop up a decent result if the peloton never catches the break. With good weather that scenario is more unlikely and right now the forecast is partly cloudy, 14 degrees in mid-day and 0 rain until Saturday 23rd. We'll see about that Sunday but so far it doesn't look like Wellens weather.

In other news today, #orica boss Matt White says the TTT course looks very hard, or quite unusually hard. I guess it is the rolling terrain in the first half he has discovere (and Birkelundsbakken). #sky Team Sky landed today and their team consists of a bunch of guys that climb very well. My favorites, but what about #sunweb? 
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 15, 2017, 20:31
thor hushovd welcomes us to Bergen

BRAVO!  CHAPEAU! BRAVO! APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 15, 2017, 20:35
Some of you will know this answer. I have never watched a World's TTT before, but this one has me interested. The women and the men get the same course, right?

And this part seems a bit strange - we seem to have trade teams AND national teams? How are they doing that?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 15, 2017, 21:10
Some of you will know this answer. I have never watched a World's TTT before, but this one has me interested. The women and the men get the same course, right?
Yes.

And this part seems a bit strange - we seem to have trade teams AND national teams? How are they doing that?
No.
TTT is for trade teams only.
ITT & RR are for national teams only.

Yes, it's silly. They should reintroduce a WT one-day TTT event and get rid of this pointless exercise that fewer and fewer teams are actually interested in participating in.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 16, 2017, 05:12
I was sure I posted this yesterday evening ..... I must be losing it. Thankfully a draft was saved.

*ie

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/irish-cycling-world-road-championships/

Elite Men

Conor Dunne
Dan Martin
Ryan Mullen
Nicolas Roche
Damien Shaw
Sean McKenna

TT: Nicolas Roche (Mullen opted out)

U23 Men

Mark Downey
Daire Feely
Darragh O’Mahony
Adam Stenson
Matthew Teggart

TT: Michael O’Loughlin and Mark Downey

Junior Men

Luke Smith
Ben Walsh
PJ Doogan

TT: Ben Walsh and Xeno Young

Elite Women

Lydia Boylan

TT: Eileen Burns
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 10:22
Ooh, barriers!
Money, money, money ...
There just aren't that many of the L barriers around, and when you simply say "we need barriers to block off X km of race parcours", they will bring what they have - which is the inverted Y in 98% of the cases.

They simply didn't bother to think of rider safety. And why should they, it's only the most important thing in the whole sport.

I was downtown last night, and I have to revise my impression a little: previously I have been reporting from locations outside the city centre, in these locations there are only inverted-Y barriers, and literally, there are miles of them. However, yesterday I got to see the finish and the last 500 meters (possibly more) there are actually L-barriers all the way. A quite good prioritization of the resources I'll say.  :cool

(https://i.imgur.com/m3aq3rn.jpg)
(This is the final 150 meters, from the Bybanen tracks to the finish line).

The finishing straight isn't very long (some 300 meters) and there's a quite wide 90 degree turn leading into it and a little rise in the terrain towards ~200 m and then downhill to flat at the finish line. Normally, the norwegians would order a slight uphill all the way to the finish line so it will be interesting to see what comes out of this if there is ever a sprint finish here (many teams seem to leave the best sprinters at home). It would favor a high top speed sprinter if not the accelration out of the 90 degree turn up the little uphill turns out to be decisive. Caleb Ewan might be a good card to bring to the sprint.

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 11:07
I see most TTT teams with disc wheels on the rear. The choice of equipment can be important on a windy day across the Askøy bridge, one of the most windy places in the city and crosswinds only (topography squeezes the wind past there just like the swift flowing water under it).

There are no expectations of strong wind tomorrow but we've had it every day this week so far so....

Weather forecast still looks good most of the week, but uncertainy high (red tag) for some days - it is possible we get the leftover humidity from hurricane Jose flowing in and then it wll not look like this...)
(https://i.imgur.com/lhwHxYU.png)

EDIT: here's a video of Astana on that bridge right now...no wind!

https://twitter.com/AstanaTeam/status/908996585551536128

(tweet was removed then added again by Astana(?) for some reason?)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 11:26
https://twitter.com/AstanaTeam/status/908998799418372096

They took a wrong turn and just kept going this isn't the TTT course  :D
Katusha got it wrong twice yesterday  :lol
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 16, 2017, 14:07
They took a wrong turn and just kept going this isn't the TTT course  :D
Katusha got it wrong twice yesterday  :lol
I hope there will be someone to guide them the right way tomorrow ... :shh

Meanwhile, can you help me with this? Somehow, the Worlds circuit and what's mappable on RideWithGPS don't align:
They appear to be using a tunnel underneath Universitet/Muséhagen and then go onto the 555? But how? No matter what I try, I can't get the site/program to follow the road(s) that the Worlds apparently use. :slow[1]
 1. By the way, I have a similar problem with the Arctic Race circuit in Narvik that apparently crosses the ore harbour facilities on a road/bridge/footpath that isn't on Google Maps nor OSM, and doesn't show on satellite images either :S
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 17:31
RidewithGPS has some algorithms for making it easy to follow a road that sometimes isn't helpful in urban areas. There is a small tunnel through Nygårdshøyden that exits on to Puddefjordbroen with a little loop to climb to the bridge level.
In everyday USE it is off-limits to everyone except buses and other public service vehicles.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 16, 2017, 21:38
https://twitter.com/cdncyclist/status/909103681043345409
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 16, 2017, 22:07
In everyday USE it is off-limits to everyone except buses and other public service vehicles.
This is the problem, I think: The tunnel shows up on the map, but it's completely impossible to use it on any route (not just on RideWithGPS, anywhere).
I'm not a bus, so I'm not allowed to use it when "driving"; and as neither cyclists nor pedestrians are allowed to use it, "walking" or "cycling" modes don't help either.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 22:08
https://twitter.com/cdncyclist/status/909103681043345409

Not ordinary trashcans either. Basically it is the heads of a giant underground vacuum-sucker system that means your garbage ends up in a container in a building on the docks about 1 km away. From there is is transported to a recycling facility south of town. No garbage trucks!   :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 16, 2017, 22:10
This is the problem, I think: The tunnel shows up on the map, but it's completely impossible to use it on any route (not just on RideWithGPS, anywhere).
I'm not a bus, so I'm not allowed to use it when "driving"; and as neither cyclists nor pedestrians are allowed to use it, "walking" or "cycling" modes don't help either.

The solution, turn of all their guiding systems and draw a straight line, manually!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 17, 2017, 08:15
The solution, turn of all their guiding systems and draw a straight line, manually!
Great minds think alike! :D
That's what I thought of yesterday, right after posting.

So here's an alternative Worlds circuit with both Birkelundsbakken and Landåslien/Sollien/Ulriken[1]:

It's a bit longer (23 km vs. 19.1 km), but to make up for that, it's also harder: 337 altitude metres vs. 270 altitude metres[2], and with a steeper hill thrown in.
If the men's elite did 9 laps of this instead of 11 laps of the actual circuit, they'd have the same distance, but almost twice as many hills to attack on.


Another question for the local expert: Is there a road (an asphalted one) to get down from Fløyen if you take a road race up the climb they use in the men's time trial? ;)
 1. honestly, "Salmon Hill" or even "Laksebakken" is a stupid name thought up by a marketing company - it wasn't called that before this year (or was it?)
 2. it's actually a bit less due to the tunnels, but those are the same on both circuits
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 17, 2017, 17:49
The TTTs were held today. I was watching with one eye, but didn't pay particularly close attention: A TTT is simply not very exciting to watch on TV.

First off were the women, and several teams completely fell apart on Birkelundsbakken. #tvc had especially bad luck as defending ITT world champion Amber Neben had a mechanical just before the uphill started, they were down to only four riders, and Villumsen had to rein herself in on the climb in order to not drop her remaining three teammates.
The victory was between the two Dutch teams, #boels Boels Dolmans and #sunweb Team Sunweb, and the latter certainly created some memories[1], beating the defending champions by twelve seconds.

Place Time Distance Speed (km/h)
1 #sun Team Sunweb 55'41" 55'41" 45.795
BRAND Lucinda
KIRCHMANN Leah
MACKAIJ Floortje
RIVERA Coryn
STULTIENS Sabrina
VAN DIJK Ellen
2 #boels Boels - Dolmans Cycling Team 55'53" + 12" 45.631
BLAAK Chantal
CANUEL Karol-Ann
GUARNIER Megan
MAJERUS Christine
PIETERS Amy
VAN DER BREGGEN Anna
3 #bigla Cervélo-Bigla Pro Cycling 56'09" + 28" 45.414
POHL Stephanie
KLEIN Lisa
KOPPENBURG Clara
LEPISTÖ Lotta
LUDWIG Cecilie Uttrup
MOOLMAN Ashleigh
4 #canyon Canyon SRAM Racing 56'46" + 1'05" 44.921
BARNES Hannah
BRENNAUER Lisa
CECCHINI Elena
KRÖGER Mieke
RYAN Alexis
WORRACK Trixi
5 #tvc Team Virtu Cycling Women 58'33" + 2'52" 43.553
KOSTER Claudia
SIGGAARD Christina
MATHIESEN Pernille
NEBEN Amber
PENTON Sara
VILLUMSEN Linda
6 #futuroscope FDJ Nouvelle Aquitaine Futuroscope 59'04" + 3'23" 43.172
BIANNIC Aude
DEMAY Coralie
DUVAL Eugénie
FOURNIER Roxane
GILLOW Shara
KNETEMANN Roxane
7 #btc BTC City Ljubljana 59'28" + 3'47" 42.881
BATAGELJ Polona
BOOGAARD Maaike
BUJAK Eugenia
LECHNER Corinna
NILSSON Hanna
PINTAR Urša
8 #bepink BePink Cogeas 59'48" + 4'07" 42.642
JACKSON Alison
PATTARO Francesca
RAGUSA Katia
SANGUINETI Ilaria
VALSECCHI Silvia
ZABELINSKAYA Olga
9 #hitec Hitec Products 1h00'40" + 4'59" 42.033
BECKER Charlotte
BJØRNSRUD Miriam
FRAPPORTI Simona
JOHNSEN Cecilie Gotaas
KESSLER Nina
THORSEN Thea

Then followed the men. First, #joker Joker Icopal comfortably won the inofficial Norwegian TTT champions against the three other local Conti teams in the race, beating them (as well as the only non-Norwegian Conti team, Sangemini-MG.K Vis) by two minutes and more.
In the competition for the win, #bmc were in front for most of the time, but they faltered after Birkelundsbakken when they were down to only four riders. Team Sunweb still had five at this point, and that made the difference: The lead changed in the last kilometres, and after the women's success, the #sunweb men could also celebrate the title.

Place Time Distance Speed (km/h)
1 #sunweb Team Sunweb 47'50" 47'50" 53.310
DUMOULIN Tom
KÄMNA Lennard
KELDERMAN Wilco
ANDERSEN Søren Kragh
MATTHEWS Michael
OOMEN Sam
2 #bmc BMC Racing Team 47'58" + 8" 53.162
DENNIS Rohan
DILLIER Silvan
KÜNG Stefan
OSS Daniel
SCOTSON Miles
VAN GARDEREN Tejay
3 #sky Team Sky 48'12" + 22" 52.905
DOULL Owain
FROOME Christopher
KIRYIENKA Vasil
KWIATKOWSKI Michal
MOSCON Gianni
THOMAS Geraint
4 #quickstep Quick-Step Floors 48'25" + 35" 52.668
BAUER Jack
GILBERT Philippe
JUNGELS Bob
LAMPAERT Yves
TERPSTRA Niki
VERMOTE Julien
5 #orica ORICA-Scott 48'33" + 43" 52.523
DURBRIDGE Luke
EDMONDSON Alexander
HEPBURN Michael
HOWSON Damien
IMPEY Daryl
TUFT Svein
6 #movistar Movistar Team 49'09" + 1'19" 51.882
AMADOR Andrey 
CASTROVIEJO Jonathan 
DOWSETT Alex 
ERVITI Imanol 
IZAGIRRE Gorka 
SÜTTERLIN Jasha 
7 #jumbo Team LottoNL-Jumbo 49'10" + 1'20" 51.864
BOOM Lars 
CAMPENAERTS Victor 
CLEMENT Stef 
ROGLIC Primoz 
VAN EMDEN Jos 
VAN HOECKE Gijs 
8 #ccc CCC Sprandi Polkowice 49'34" + 1'44" 51.446
BIALOBLOCKI Marcin 
KOCH Jonas 
OWSIAN Lukasz 
PATERSKI Maciej 
TACIAK Mateusz 
TRATNIK Jan 
9 #katusha Team Katusha Alpecin 49'36" + 1'46" 51.411
HOLLENSTEIN Reto 
KRISTOFF Alexander 
MACHADO Tiago 
MARTIN Tony 
MØRKØV Michael 
POLITT Nils 
10 #bora BORA - hansgrohe 49'45" + 1'55" 51.256
BÁRTA Jan 
BODNAR Maciej 
BURGHARDT Marcus 
KONRAD Patrick 
PÖSTLBERGER Lukas 
SARAMOTINS Aleksejs 
11 #astana Astana Pro Team 50'06" + 2'16" 50.898
CATALDO Dario 
CHERNETCKII Sergei 
GATTO Oscar 
GRIVKO Andrei 
KORSAETH Truls 
LUTSENKO Alexey 
12 #trek Trek - Segafredo 50'40" + 2'50" 50.329
BRÄNDLE Matthias 
COLEDAN Marco 
DE KORT Koen 
IRIZAR Markel 
PANTANO Jarlinson 
THEUNS Edward 
13 #joker Team Joker Icopal 50'58" + 3'08" 50.033
FORFANG Ole 
HAGEN Carl Fredrik 
HALVORSEN Kristoffer 
HOELGAARD Markus 
HOEM Bjørn Tore 
SKJERPING Kristoffer 
14 #sangemini Sangemini - MG.K Vis 52'52" + 5'02" 48.235
BERNARDINI Simone 
GAFFURINI Nicola 
GAZZARA Michele 
SALVIETTI Niccolò 
SCARTEZZINI Michele 
TOTÒ Paolo 
15 #unox Uno-X Hydrogen Development Team 53'00" + 5'10" 48.113
FLØTTEN Audun Brekke 
RESELL Erik Nordsæter 
RUDLAND Hans Kristian 
SLEEN Torjus 
TRÆEN Torstein 
WÆRSTED Syver 
16 #fixit Team FixIT.no 53'11" + 5'21" 47.947
BLÅLID Marius 
EIKELAND Ken Levi 
LØVIK Asmund Romstad 
MADSEN Kristoffer 
ØVERLAND Bjørnar 
SPIKSETH Elias Angell 
17 #sparsor Team Sparebanken Sør 53'20" + 5'30" 47.813
AASVOLD Kristian 
DAHL Herman 
RØINÅS Fridtjof 
SKJOLD Mathias 
TRONDSEN Trond 
VANGSTAD Andreas 
 1. sorry for using their tacky corporate hashtag, but it fits
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on September 17, 2017, 21:04
https://twitter.com/AstanaTeam/status/908998799418372096

They took a wrong turn and just kept going

"Got a team of six from Astana, Jack,
They went out for a ride and they never went back,
Like a river that don't know where its flowing,
They took a Wrong turn and they just kept going,

Every bodys got a hungry heart......."
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 17, 2017, 21:15
Not ordinary trashcans either. Basically it is the heads of a giant underground vacuum-sucker system that means your garbage ends up in a container in a building on the docks about 1 km away. From there is is transported to a recycling facility south of town. No garbage trucks!   :)

It's like something out of a sci-fi novel. I could do with one in my kitchen to be honest, the amount of stuff that they want you to recycle these days, jaysus.

Let's spare a thought though for Jostein, the now unemployed ex-garbage truck driver from Bergen.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 17, 2017, 21:59
OK, watching it all from a different perspective, I think it was great.

Maybe I should start by saying that one of Norway's most traditional cycling races is a kind of team time trial, from Trondheim to Oslo. (Check distance on map  :S )

First of all, no doubt we got two worthy winners. #sunweb and #sunweb There's already a story in local newpaper BT about Sunweb spending time here in May with members both teams, preparing for this. After trying the course, the management of Sunweb decided they teams they originally had in mind, were the wrong ones. The revised selections were obviously right.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4390/36891481510_290bfa57c5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YcYub3)Bergen 2017 Team Sunweb TTT victory at Vetrlidsalmenningen (https://flic.kr/p/YcYub3)
(my photo :) )

I watched both races streetside, and unfortunately didn't get a good picture of the #sunweb women's team, because #fdj was right ahead of them and I looked up from my camera to be completely surprised by Sunweb coming up the hill like a tornado. I watched the women's race from a different position, closer to home, and in a small climb where I actually had a very good view, 200 meters up and down, but the camera restricted the view and the surprising speed with which #sunweb was catching up with #fdj I guess was the defining moment, sportswise, of the day.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4350/36452018544_fc35827159_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xx989m)FDJ in Årstadveien (https://flic.kr/p/Xx989m)
This is the only picture I got of FDJ / Sunweb situation. Imagine, Sunweb was on their heels when they passed me.  :S It was radical!

However, the best thing about the day, was that cycling won Bergen and Bergen won cycling  :D there will be less complaining and more enthousiasm in town after this.
I think we already broke Doha's audience figures on the first day of training (according to Aleksander Kristoff, there were more people watching them training on Saturday than there were spectators for all days total in Quatar). Today we probably accummulated 40000% more specators than in Quatar on the same day, and almost everyone had a good time.

I will post some more pictures when I find the time to separate the good ones from the pile.


Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 17, 2017, 22:39
OK, spectators come from everywhere...these go for the clever hat awards, or is that just an alien abduction?


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4336/36889929600_403e40701c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YcQwQY)
Best hats or? (https://flic.kr/p/YcQwQY)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 17, 2017, 23:17
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4334/36475968323_36f6bb973d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XzfSzz)virtu årstadveien 2 (https://flic.kr/p/XzfSzz)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 00:25
I think "adverse camber" is more common, but I got what you meant and I think you can use it.
This might be a case of US English vs Britannia. "Off camber" would universally be used in the US, whereas "adverse camber" would never be found.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 00:27
Didn't get to watch the TTT live, but I'm watching it on recording! Lovely area! I'll bet owning a house around there is expensive. Very pretty in the summer.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 00:40
OK, spectators come from everywhere...these go for the clever hat awards, or is that just an alien abduction?


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4336/36889929600_403e40701c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YcQwQY)
Best hats or? (https://flic.kr/p/YcQwQY)

Aliens. Rasta popcorn dreads aliens. Yup. They beamed me up --- have I told you that story? 

 ;)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 18, 2017, 08:18
Another photo of Hiero's aliens (with their probes?!).

https://twitter.com/cdncyclist/status/909430941340389377
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 18, 2017, 08:31
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61315/mondial-juniors-dames-clm-les-horaires-de-depart

Junior Women's TT Start List:

10:35:00 47 VIGILIA Alessia ITA   
10:36:30 46 HAILU Zayd ETH   
10:38:00 45 KESTHONGLANG Kanyarat THA   
10:39:30 44 SOLOVYEVA Anzhela KAZ   
10:41:00 43 RAMIREZ FREGOSO Andrea MEX 
10:42:30 42 YOUNGWERTH Abigail USA   
10:44:00 41 DOLAN Lauren GBR   
10:45:30 40 JUSKEVICIUTE Juste LTU   
10:47:00 39 ATTWELL Erin J CAN 
10:48:30 38 KOLESAVA Anastasiya BLR   
10:50:00 37 GJOS Martine NOR   
10:51:30 36 CASTRIQUE Alana BEL   
10:53:00 35 WIEL Jade FRA   
10:54:30 34 GILABERT VILAPLANA Ariana ESP 
10:56:00 33 RAAIJMAKERS Marit NED   
10:57:30 32 MALKOVA Daria RUS   
10:59:00 31 LUDWIG Hannah GER   
11:00:30 30 PATERNOSTER Letizia ITA   
11:02:00 29 KASAHUN Tsadkan ETH   
11:03:30 28 ROWSE Alyssa BER   
11:05:00 27 BATRIYA Chaniporn THA   
11:06:30 26 SETIAWAN Liontin Evangelina INA 
11:08:00 25 SHIMOYAMA Misuzu JPN   
11:09:30 24 KURNOSSOVA Marina KAZ   
11:11:00 23 COVARRUBIAS ROCHA Cinthya Teresita MEX
11:12:30 22 MOAK Summer USA   
11:14:00 21 FASNACHT Madeleine AUS   
11:15:30 20 GEORGI Pfeiffer GBR   
11:17:00 19 KULYNYCH Olha UKR   
11:18:30 18 PUSKALA Viivi FIN   
11:20:00 17 PENKO Karin SLO   
11:21:30 16 STEGVILAITE Regina LTU   
11:23:00 15 JUSSAUME Laurie CAN   
11:24:30 14 SALAUYEVA Aksana BLR   
11:26:00 13 KRAHEMANN Lara SUI   
11:27:30 12 UTVIK Emelie Roe NOR 
11:29:00 11 BOSSUYT Shari BEL   
11:30:30 10 LE NET Marie FRA 
11:32:00 9 MARTIN MARTIN Sara ESP 
11:33:30 8 GRUBER-STADLER Hannah AUT   
11:35:00 7 DE RUITER Anne NED 
11:36:30 6 JASKULSKA Marta POL   
11:38:00 5 NOVOLODSKAYA Maria RUS   
11:39:30 4 TEUTENBERG Lea Lin GER 
11:41:00 3 HARSCH Anne-Sophie LUX   
11:42:30 2 JORGENSEN Emma Cecilie Norsgaard DEN
11:44:00 1 PIRRONE Elena ITA

I recognise a few - Paternoster, Moak (McNulty's girlfriend), Georgi, Teutenberg (daughter of Lars), Norsgaard Jorgensen and Pirrone. My pick is the Dane.

Event should start in ~1 hour.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 18, 2017, 08:53
Junior Women's TT Start List:

My pick is the Dane.
Always a good pick! :cool
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 18, 2017, 11:18


Changeable conditions meant it looked like the first rider off (Vigilia) would be in the hot seat for the entire event. Conditions did improve towards the end according to Ant McCrossan, but still none of the late starters apart from Perrone did much to show that that was the case.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 18, 2017, 11:25
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61316/mondial-espoirs-hommes-clm-les-horaires-de-depart

U23 Men's TT Start List:

13:05:00 57 JORGENSEN Mathias Norsgaard DEN 
13:06:30 56 HABTOM TEKLE Awet ERI 
13:08:00 55 GROSELJ Matic SLO   
13:09:30 54 HUERTAS ARAYA Jason Andrey CRC
13:11:00 53 SAMITIER SAMITIER Sergio ESP 
13:12:30 52 COWAN Alexander CAN   
13:14:00 51 BRAUN Julian GER   
13:15:30 50 SAJNOK Szymon POL   
13:17:00 49 GAMPER Patrick AUT   
13:18:30 48 OKA Atsushi JPN   
13:20:00 47 GENIETS Kevin LUX   
13:21:30 46 KNOTTEN Iver Johan NOR 
13:55:00 45 VAN HOOYDONCK Nathan BEL 
13:56:30 44 SCHAPPI Martin SUI   
13:58:00 43 SIVAKOV Pavel RUS   
13:59:30 42 AFFINI Edoardo ITA   
14:01:00 41 MCNULTY Brandon USA   
14:02:30 40 CAVAGNA Remi FRA   
14:04:00 39 BJERG Mikkel DEN   
14:05:30 38 KAGIMU Charles UGA   
14:07:00 37 LANGELLOTTI Victor MON   
14:08:30 36 PETROVSKI Andrej MKD   
14:10:00 35 BATSAIKHAN Tegshbayar MGL   
14:11:30 34 MOREIRA Mauricio URU   
14:45:00 33 CHOKRI El Mehdi MAR 
14:46:30 32 GOLDSHTEIN Omer ISR   
14:48:00 31 MUSIE MEHARI Saymon ERI 
14:49:30 30 MILTIADIS Andreas CYP   
14:51:00 29 GAVARS Eriks Toms LAT 
14:52:30 28 PENKO Izidor SLO   
14:54:00 27 JARA RODRIGUEZ Daniel CRC 
14:55:30 26 FUNG Ka Hoo HKG 
14:57:00 25 PEAK Barnabas HUN   
14:58:30 24 NATAROV Yuriy KAZ   
15:00:00 23 CASTRILLO ZAPATER Jaime ESP 
15:01:30 22 VILLALOBOS HERNANDEZ Luis Ricardo MEX
15:35:00 21 GOUGH Regan NZL   
15:36:30 20 BURKE Jack CAN   
15:38:00 19 HALLER Patrick GER   
15:39:30 18 NOVAKOVSKYI Vitaliy UKR   
15:41:00 17 BROZYNA Piotr POL   
15:42:30 16 FREIBERGER Markus AUT   
15:44:00 15 OLIVEIRA Ivo POR   
15:45:30 14 ONODERA Rei JPN   
15:47:00 13 O'LOUGHLIN Michael IRL   
15:48:30 12 SCOTSON Callum AUS   
15:50:00 11 WIRTGEN Tom LUX   
15:51:30 10 FOSS Tobias S. NOR 
16:25:00 9 LEYSEN Senne BEL   
16:26:30 8 HIRSCHI Marc SUI   
16:28:00 7 MARTINEZ POVEDA Daniel Felipe COL
16:29:30 6 STRAKHOV Dmitrii RUS   
16:31:00 5 DAVIES Scott GBR   
16:32:30 4 BACCIO Paolo ITA   
16:34:00 3 POWLESS Neilson USA   
16:35:30 2 ERMENAULT Corentin FRA   
16:37:00 1 ASGREEN Kasper DEN
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 12:30
This is the problem, I think: The tunnel shows up on the map, but it's completely impossible to use it on any route (not just on RideWithGPS, anywhere).
I'm not a bus, so I'm not allowed to use it when "driving"; and as neither cyclists nor pedestrians are allowed to use it, "walking" or "cycling" modes don't help either.
A little self-knowledge can be a fine thing. Glad to see you are discovering your true identity.

 :lol  ;)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 12:45
I'm behind you guys - watching the women's TTT on recording. Lovely. Sunweb and Boels particularly smooth out of the ramp and slotting in. Virtu and BePink blowing apart - not as good on the teamwork - but Virtu knowing the capacity of who is left and pulling out a decent performance in spite of not working together up the hill.

Nice course - a completely different challenge to a dead flat course, where teamwork is pre-eminient. Course like this you have to have your mental game together, and a proper strategy in advance can make all the difference. A challenging course. Lovely!

Sunweb getting the strategy right, keeping it 6 until after the hill, and then smoking the course. Boels keeps it 5 up to the cobbles, and it gets down to the nitty-gritty.

I'm liking this. Some public commentators have noted these teams don't get to wear any rainbow badge - which is a shame. They should get to wear some sort of badge for this one.

I haven't watched the men's yet, but based on the reporting, it sounds like the course - and the strategy and mental game it requires - made a difference in the men's as it did the women's.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 18, 2017, 17:00
Just finished watching the men's TTT. Great race! And the CROWDS!! Fantastic! And turning out for a traditionally very boring and least interesting discipline!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 18, 2017, 17:22
Mikkel Bjerg set an early benchmark ... and, frankly, nobody else was even in the same league today.
The gap from 1st to second is as large as that from 2nd to 12th! :o




Medal table after the first day:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *it Italy 1 1 0
2 *dk Denmark 1 0 0
3 *us USA 0 1 0
4 *fr France 0 0 1
5 *au Australia 0 0 1
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 18, 2017, 21:33
More pictures from Sunday

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4410/37137961862_5588e5414d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YzKLch)Cervelo Bigla Bergen 2017 TTT world championship (https://flic.kr/p/YzKLch)

EDIT: Is that Lotta Lepistö in 2nd position? Who's in first?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 18, 2017, 21:36
Lotto-Jumbo #jumbo at Vetrlidsalmenningen. Notice last rider conducting the cheering from the crowd  :)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/37138742432_68e9451fa3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLeo)lotto-jumbo TTT Vetrlidsalmenningen (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLeo)

ID the riders anyone?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 18, 2017, 21:39
CCC did a quite good race, beating some WT squads. Here they are at Vetrlidsalmenningen.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/37138744312_529aece2bd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLMN)DSC_0282_v1 (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLMN)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 18, 2017, 21:43
This picture is a bit sad. A conti team with local roots (their team car was often seen parked outside a house in the "salmon hill" last year), #fixit can't find new sponsors (or the motivation to find them) and this is the exact last moment I saw them, as this was their final race. I will have to say, if you are a conti team, racing in the worlds got to qualify for the "ending on a high note" tag.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4400/37138746982_17d356c8e0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YzPMzQ)DSC_0269_v1 (https://flic.kr/p/YzPMzQ)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 18, 2017, 21:52
....
So here's an alternative Worlds circuit with both Birkelundsbakken and Landåslien/Sollien/Ulriken[1]:

It's a bit longer (23 km vs. 19.1 km), but to make up for that, it's also harder: 337 altitude metres vs. 270 altitude metres[2], and with a steeper hill thrown in.
If the men's elite did 9 laps of this instead of 11 laps of the actual circuit, they'd have the same distance, but almost twice as many hills to attack on.


Another question for the local expert: Is there a road (an asphalted one) to get down from Fløyen if you take a road race up the climb they use in the men's time trial? ;)
 1. honestly, "Salmon Hill" or even "Laksebakken" is a stupid name thought up by a marketing company - it wasn't called that before this year (or was it?)
 2. it's actually a bit less due to the tunnels, but those are the same on both circuits

There's nothing you can use for the peloton, it would have to an MTF, but if you want to change something you could go up to Rundemanen, continuing from Fløyen to the highest peak behind it. Now theoretically there's a couple of gravel paths up the backside - make that two of the backsides, actually...

Anyway, there isn't a shortage of neither roads nor climbs around this city, the puzzle is to make a plan for what you need to close off for the city to keep mimum functions while the race course is fenced off. Locals don't use the the roads close to the city centre very much for cycling. In the countryside there's miles and miles of narrow rural roads in mostly rolling hilly terrain with the odd really hard climb hidden in corners here and there, and mostly without too many cars. If the worlds could be run without the "Grand Prix"  style of racing we could have made a much nicer race with a long countryside part and a few laps in the city to finish it off with. 

Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 18, 2017, 21:57
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4410/37137961862_5588e5414d_b.jpg)

Who's in first?

Moolman.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/37138742432_68e9451fa3_b.jpg)

ID the riders anyone?

Campenaerts, Roglic, Clement, Van Emden, Boom in that order. Surer about some more than others there.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 19, 2017, 09:09
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61348/mondial-juniors-hommes-clm-les-horaires-de-depart

Junior Men's Start List:

11:35:00 78 MERDJ Aymen ALG
11:36:30 77 FEDOROV Yevgeniy KAZ
11:38:00 76 HJEMSAETER Olav NOR
11:39:30 75 CHAIYASOMBAT Thanakhan THA
11:41:00 74 VAN DER MERWE Schalk NAM
11:42:30 73 ZUBRICKAS Romas LTU
11:44:00 72 MAZUR Dzianis BLR
11:45:30 71 HOPKINS Kaden BER
11:47:00 70 SAFARLI Mikayil AZE
11:48:30 69 LOUKILI Abdellah MAR
11:50:00 68 KVIST Linus SWE
11:51:30 67 WRIGHT Mitchell AUS
11:53:00 66 MARTYNOV Nikita RUS
11:54:30 65 CHRETIEN Charles-Etienne CAN
11:56:00 64 HAMILTON Ben NZL
11:57:30 63 THIEBAUD Valere SUI
11:59:00 62 WRIGHT Fred GBR
12:00:30 61 GAMPER Mario AUT
12:02:00 60 HOLEC Richard CZE
12:03:30 59 SHEEHAN Riley USA
12:05:00 58 HEINSCHKE Leon GER
12:06:30 57 MANFREDI Samuele ITA
12:08:00 56 LECAMUS LAMBERT Florentin FRA
12:09:30 55 CHERHABIL Alaeddine ALG
12:11:00 54 WALSH Ben IRL
12:12:30 53 PAPIERSKI Damian POL
12:14:00 52 TERRY Ryan RSA
12:15:30 51 ARENSMAN Thymen NED
12:17:00 50 SAGADIN Luka SLO
12:18:30 49 VAN WILDER Ilan BEL
12:20:00 48 BRUSSENSKIY Gleb KAZ
12:21:30 47 PRICE-PEJTERSEN Johan DEN
12:23:00 46 WAERENSKJOLD Soren NOR
12:24:30 45 NIKULIN Daniil UKR
12:26:00 44 MOHAMED AZIZ Melki TUN
12:27:30 43 SAENKHAMWONG Wachirawit THA
12:29:00 42 RAYES Mohamed SYR
12:30:30 41 BELLE Stephen Alberto SEY
12:32:00 40 VASILOIU Valentin ROU
12:33:30 39 DU PLOOY Charl NAM
12:35:00 38 VAITAITIS Kestutis LTU
12:36:30 37 ANSONS Kristers LAT
12:38:00 36 GARCIA JANEIRO Guillermo ESP
12:39:30 35 TURUK Daniil BLR
12:41:00 34 OLIVEIRA Matthew BER
12:42:30 33 ORLOV Ivan AZE
12:44:00 32 AUTRAN CARRILLO Jose Eduardo CHI
12:45:30 31 GEBRESELASSIE Kiflom ETH
12:47:00 30 REDY Dylan MRI
12:48:30 29 OCAMPO GIRALDO Victor Alejandro COL
12:50:00 28 MEDRAZI Mohammed MAR
12:51:30 27 WALL Christoffer SWE
12:53:00 26 MANSOURI Hamza ALG
12:54:30 25 BERWICK Sebastian AUS
12:56:00 24 KLUCKERS Arthur LUX
12:57:30 23 KUGAEVSKI Gleb RUS
12:59:00 22 STAPLES Graydon CAN
13:00:30 21 ELWORTHY Oscar NZL
13:02:00 20 SCHMID Mauro SUI
13:03:30 19 PIDCOCK Thomas GBR
13:05:00 18 BAYER Tobias AUT
13:06:30 17 ISLAS LOPEZ Fernando MEX
13:08:00 16 MATSUDA Shoi JPN
13:09:30 15 SEDLACEK Vojtech CZE
13:11:00 14 BOOTS Kendrick USA
13:12:30 13 HOLLMANN Juri GER
13:14:00 12 PUPPIO Antonio ITA
13:15:30 11 RENARD Alexis FRA
13:17:00 10 YOUNG Xeno IRL
13:18:30 9 MACIEJUK Filip POL
13:20:00 8 STOJNIC Veljko SRB
13:21:30 7 OOSTHUIZEN Jason RSA
13:23:00 6 HOOLE Daan NED
13:24:30 5 CEMAZAR Nik SLO
13:26:00 4 GRIGNARD Sébastien BEL
13:27:30 3 CHZHAN Igor KAZ
13:29:00 2 JOHANSEN Julius DEN
13:30:30 1 LEKNESSUND Andreas NOR
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 19, 2017, 13:14
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61349/mondial-elite-dames-clm-les-horaires-de-depart

Elite Women's TT Start List:

15:35:00 54 STEPHENS Lauren USA
15:36:30 53 VAN DER BREGGEN Anna NED
15:38:00 52 GEREFIEL Selam Amha ETH
15:39:30 51 FASOI Varvara GRE
15:41:00 50 GAFINOVITZ Rotem ISR
15:42:30 49 YANG Qianyu HKG
15:44:00 48 JOVAISYTE Justina LTU
15:45:30 47 MATHIESEN Pernille DEN
15:47:00 46 FORCHINI Ramona SUI
15:48:30 45 THORSEN Thea NOR
15:50:00 44 LABOUS Juliette FRA
15:51:30 43 BARKER Elinor GBR
15:53:00 42 KAJIHARA Yumi JPN
15:54:30 41 MORZENTI Lisa ITA
15:56:00 40 SAARELAINEN Sari FIN
15:57:30 39 WORRACK Trixi GER
15:59:00 38 WILES Tayler USA
16:00:30 37 TCYMBALIUK Ksenia RUS
16:02:00 36 CHRISTOFOROU Antri CYP
16:03:30 35 GEBRU Eyeru Tesfoam ETH
16:05:00 34 TSAVARI Eleni Michalista GRE
16:06:30 33 LEE Jer Ling Serene SIN
16:08:00 32 BURNS Eileen IRL
16:09:30 31 SHAPIRA Omer ISR
16:11:00 30 HALBWACHS Aurelie MRI
16:12:30 29 VILLALON SANCHEZ Aranza Valentina CHI
16:14:00 28 SANTOYO PEREZ Brenda MEX
16:15:30 27 RITTER Martina AUT
16:17:00 26 SANABRIA SANCHEZ Ana Cristina COL
16:18:30 25 PANG Yao HKG
16:20:00 24 SHEKEL Olga UKR
16:21:30 23 OYARBIDE JIMENEZ Lourdes ESP
16:23:00 22 NERLO Aurela POL
16:24:30 21 TUSLAITE Daiva LTU
16:26:00 20 DYGERT Chloe USA
16:27:30 19 VAN VLEUTEN Annemiek NED
16:29:00 18 PAVLUKHINA Olena AZE
16:30:30 17 LUDWIG Cecilie Uttrup DEN
16:32:00 16 REUSSER Marlen SUI
16:33:30 15 HEINE Vita NOR
16:35:00 14 CORDON RAGOT Audrey FRA
16:36:30 13 CANUEL Karol-Ann CAN
16:38:00 12 BARNES Hannah GBR
16:39:30 11 DUYCK Ann-Sophie BEL
16:41:00 10 YONAMINE Eri JPN
16:42:30 9 MOOLMAN-PASIO Ashleigh RSA
16:44:00 8 VILLUMSEN Linda NZL
16:45:30 7 LONGO BORGHINI Elisa ITA
16:47:00 6 LEPISTO Lotta Pauliina FIN
16:48:30 5 BRENNAUER Lisa GER
16:50:00 4 ZABELINSKAYA Olga RUS
16:51:30 3 GARFOOT Katrin AUS
16:53:00 2 VAN DIJK Ellen NED
16:54:30 1 NEBEN Amber Leone USA

USA and Netherlands having options at either end of the list in case of changeable conditions.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 19, 2017, 14:44
 This course is certainly turning out a few surprises.

(https://coresites-cdn.factorymedia.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Tom-Pidcock-cyclo-cross-superman-celebration-pic-Alex-Whitehead-SWpix.com_.jpg)

Who would have thought?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 19, 2017, 15:00
This course is certainly turning out a few surprises.
I expected a rematch of the Euro champs between #teamdk Johansen and #teamno Leknessund. As it turned out, neither made the podium.
In the home favourite's case, he likely pushed too hard on the first half of the course, and while he took a solid lead at the top, he then had too little left in the tank for the downhill/flat second half.
In the case of the Dane, he had a mechanical very early on, necessitating a bike change and putting him some 30" behind the best at the first time check. In the end, he finished 6th, 27" down ... who knows what might have been?

This shouldn't distract from what was a great ITT by #teamgb Pidcock who was quite secure in the hotseat once he'd sat down in it. Shout-out to the Pole who was overjoyed when it turned out Leknessund wasn't going to medal, winning him the bronze medal.




Medal table after 3/10 events:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *it Italy 1 2 0
2 *dk Denmark 1 0 0
3 *uk Great Britain 1 0 0
4 *us USA 0 1 0
5 *fr France 0 0 1
6 *pl Poland 0 0 1
7 *au Australia 0 0 1
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 19, 2017, 16:33
Due to Eurosport prioritising some random match in some random Snooker tournament and some random motorbike race over the women's ITT world championships, I didn't see much of this race, only the last few riders finishing. :(

#teamnl had three riders capable of winning, and two of them finished on the podium; that's a pretty good return. And who wouldn't be happy for Annemiek van Vleuten after last year's near-miss (and especially the horrific crash in Rio).




Medal table after 4/10 events:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *it Italy 1 2 0
2 *nl Netherlands 1 1 0
3 *dk Denmark 1 0 0
4 *uk Great Britain 1 0 0
5 *us USA 0 1 0
6 *au Australia 0 0 2
7 *fr France 0 0 1
8 *pl Poland 0 0 1
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 19, 2017, 16:57
A *lu Michael Reihs clone the other day and today it's the turn of a *by Daniel Turek. :o

Junior Men's Start List:

12:39:30 35 TURUK Daniil BLR

This course is certainly turning out a few surprises.

(https://coresites-cdn.factorymedia.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Tom-Pidcock-cyclo-cross-superman-celebration-pic-Alex-Whitehead-SWpix.com_.jpg)

Who would have thought?



How much would the restricted gearing play in his favour on a lumpyish course like this (if any at all)?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on September 19, 2017, 17:19
A win for the self proclaimed new Stybar !
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 19, 2017, 17:30
How much would the restricted gearing play in his favour on a lumpyish course like this (if any at all)?
There were a couple of juniors freewheeling on the downhill parts because they'd spinned out their gears.
Don't know how much of a difference it would have made, though.

In my opinion, restricted gears are really just another component to consider, and they certainly have a place in junior racing. If you were strong enough to push more than your gears allowed on the downhill, you should be able to spend that 'extra' power on the flat parts that followed.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on September 19, 2017, 17:31
How much would the restricted gearing play in his favour on a lumpyish course like this (if any at all)?

I was wondering this while watching the race. I would have thought the gear restrictions act as more of a leveller on flat courses than they would on a lumpy course.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: Leadbelly on September 19, 2017, 22:03
http://www.directvelo.com/actualite/61358/mondial-elite-hommes-clm-les-horaires-de-depart

Elite Men's TT Start List:

13:05:00 65 LUTSENKO Alexey KAZ
13:06:30 64 SUTTERLIN Jasha GER
13:08:00 63 WAIS Ahmad Badreddin SYR
13:09:30 62 KHAN Awais PAK
13:11:00 61 TAN Gabriel SIN
13:12:30 60 ZHUPA Eugert ALB
13:14:00 59 BRITTON Robert CAN
13:15:30 58 ZOIDL Riccardo AUT
13:17:00 57 HANSEN Lasse Norman DEN
13:18:30 56 RYBARUK Kostyantyn UKR
13:20:00 55 DE PLUS Laurens BEL
13:50:00 54 VANGSTAD Andreas NOR
13:51:30 53 COSTA Rui POR
13:53:00 52 HOLLENSTEIN Reto SUI
13:54:30 51 ROSSKOPF Joseph USA
13:56:00 50 EVTUSHENKO Alexander RUS
13:57:30 49 TACIAK Mateusz POL
13:59:00 48 TRATNIK Jan SLO
14:00:30 47 IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Gorka ESP
14:02:00 46 GEOGHEGAN HART Tao GBR
14:03:30 45 BIZHIGITOV Zhandos KAZ
14:05:00 44 ARNDT Nikias GER
14:35:00 43 JASER Nazir SYR
14:36:30 42 MUHAMMAD Arsalan Anjum PAK
14:38:00 41 TEOH Yi Peng SIN
14:39:30 40 BURROWES Jermaine GUY
14:41:00 39 MARTINS SANDOVAL Uri MEX
14:42:30 38 HALILAJ Redi ALB
14:44:00 37 CHEUNG King Lok HKG
14:45:30 36 ASADOV Elchin AZE
14:47:00 35 NDAYISENGA Valens RWA
14:48:30 34 LAMPAERT Yves BEL
14:50:00 33 KONOVALOVAS Ignatas LTU
15:20:00 32 TVETCOV Serghei ROU
15:21:30 31 SEPULVEDA Eduardo ARG
15:23:00 30 TESHOME Meron ERI
15:24:30 29 BOND Hamish NZL
15:26:00 28 HOULE Hugo CAN
15:27:30 27 SMIT Willem Jakobus RSA
15:29:00 26 POSTLBERGER Lukas AUT
15:30:30 25 MADSEN Martin Toft DEN
15:32:00 24 GRIVKO Andrey UKR
15:33:30 23 KELDERMAN Wilco NED
15:35:00 22 PANTANO GOMEZ Jarlinson COL
16:05:00 21 ROCHE Nicolas IRL
16:06:30 20 GRUZDEV Dmitriy KAZ
16:08:00 19 BARTA Jan CZE
16:09:30 18 HAGEN Edvald Boasson NOR
16:11:00 17 CAMPENAERTS Victor BEL
16:12:30 16 OLIVEIRA Nelson POR
16:14:00 15 GOUGEARD Alexis FRA
16:15:30 14 MOSCON Gianni ITA
16:17:00 13 LUDVIGSSON Tobias SWE
16:18:30 12 KUNG Stefan SUI
16:20:00 11 KIRYIENKA Vasil BLR
16:50:00 10 VAN GARDEREN Tejay USA
16:51:30 9 ZAKARIN Ilnur RUS
16:53:00 8 JUNGELS Bob LUX
16:54:30 7 BODNAR Maciej POL
16:56:00 6 ROGLIC Primoz SLO
16:57:30 5 DENNIS Rohan AUS
16:59:00 4 CASTROVIEJO Jonathan ESP
17:00:30 3 FROOME Chris GBR
17:02:00 2 DUMOULIN Tom NED
17:03:30 1 MARTIN Tony GER
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 19, 2017, 22:21
OK, tomorrow (wednesday) is the beeeg day, with the men's elite ITT includign the unprecedented (lie! Etoile de Besseges - style) finishing climb up to Mount Fløyen. Too much is written about the course already all over the net, so lets look at the competitors:

the startlist is here (https://d2o9doy8pqmlel.cloudfront.net/1505775985/53693-itt-me-startlist.PDF) (pdf-file from uci again...)

NINJA EDIT: or just read the post above which leadbelly posted while I was writing  :)

The start order...say again?
There are 6 groups of starters with 1 min 30 secs interval between the starters in each group, and ... what ? 30 minutes between each group? I wasn't planning on bringing some beers in my backpack for tomorrow but what the BIIP are we going to do all those empty half-hour sets?

In the first group starting 13:05 there are a few outsiders for the podium like  *kz Alexay Lutsenko starting first, then  *de Jasha Sutterlin and a long list of no-nevers, including  *dk Lasse Norman Hansen who will probably be hoping for the Fløyen to tilt back to level for a while, and then go back to normal.

In the second group starting 13:50 there are a few very interesting riders like  *no Andreas Vangstad (only because I will be cheering for him)  so it is very interesting. Andreas has a decent time trial and is not a poor climber, and I hope he can compete with  *no Edvald Boasson Hagen on this course.  Edvald Boasson Hagen is a good time trialist but he could be a lot better if he actually practiced, so I really hope someone beats him in a serious race soon.
After Vangstad comes *pt Rui Costa. I think he should do relatively well on such a course? Also in the same group is  *es Gorka Izaguirre and  *gb Tao Geoghan Heart.

Group 3 starts 14:35 and includes  *be Lampaert and  Konovalovas but they're not the ones I would expect to perform on such a course? (Food and beer break may be at this time...

Group 4 starts 15:20 and there's *nl Wilco Kelderman starting at 15:33, then Givko then Pantano. I would have hoped for Uran, but it seems he stayed at home. Watch out for teamwork, I expect Kelderman to ride as the pacesetter for Dumoulin (if you saw van der Breggen and van Vleuten today, I think that is how they operated.)

Group 5 starts 16:05 and its full of really good time trial dudes who cannot win on this course: Roche, Barta. Edvald, Campenaerts, Oliveira, Gougeard, Moscon, Ludviggson, Kung, and Kiriyenka.

Group 6 starts 16:50 and these are the podium candidates: Zakarin, Jungels, Roglic, Dennis, Froome, Dumoulin. Throw in a Bodnar and a Castroviejo for seasoning and Tony Martin for dessert...
 
So: *gb Froome, *nl Dumoulin or an unexpected victory?
Easy, as long as Dumoulin stays on his feet. The Dutch come much better prepared than the British, they were here in May spending time, preparing for the time trials. Kelderman is probably the best pacesetter Dumoulin can get, whereas Tao Geoghan Heart is not the ideal substitution for Geraint Thomas. Then again, if your plan A doesn't work you might as well put your money on the future.

Froome reportedly has not prepared specifically for the event, although he might have a hint of supercompensation left after the Vuelta. Dumoulin I think has been targeting this for a while now...

As any potential third force here...that would be  *ru Russian or  *au Australian I think...no, wait.
It would have to be  *si Roglic. He's the cube shaped bouncing ball in this company: he can bounce very high and go very far but God only knows in which direction...





Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 19, 2017, 22:30
There are 6 groups of starters with 1 min 30 secs interval between the starters in each group, and ... what ? 30 minutes between each group? I wasn't planning on bringing some beers in my backpack for tomorrow but what the BIIP are we going to do all those empty half-hour sets?
The idea is that group 1 will have started their second lap before group 2 takes off, and so on. They did the same in Copenhagen.

So: *gb Froome, *nl Dumoulin or an unexpected victory?
Easy, as long as Dumoulin stays on his feet. The Dutch come much better prepared than the British, they were here in May spending time, preparing for the time trials. Kelderman is probably the best pacesetter Dumoulin can get, whereas Tao Geoghan Heart is not the ideal substitution for Geraint Thomas. Then again, if your plan A doesn't work you might as well put your money on the future.

Froome reportedly has not prepared specifically for the event, although he might have a hint of supercompensation left after the Vuelta. Dumoulin I think has been targeting this for a while now...

As any potential third force here...that would be  *ru Russian or  *au Australian I think...no, wait.
It would have to be  *si Roglic. He's the cube shaped bouncing ball in this company: he can bounce very high and go very far but God only knows in which direction...
I agree with this. Dumoulin is THE favourite. Froome will probably still be good enough for a podium. And yes, looking at the startlist Roglic jumped out at me. Excellent timetrialist, excellent climber - bronze medal wouldn't surprise me. Even silver wouldn't. Gold would, though - that one's Dumoulin's to lose.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: t-72 on September 19, 2017, 23:15
The idea is that group 1 will have started their second lap before group 2 takes off, and so on. They did the same in Copenhagen.

Copenhagen had nothing like Fløyen? I mean, it is a few years ago, there could have been a little erosion and so on, but ... nah!
I think there will be few spectators on those laps, and everyone, their dog and their mother up Fløyen somewhere. Net effect, the crowd gets 5* 30 mins breaks => drunk spectator issues. Or maybe just happy. We'll see..
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: hiero on September 20, 2017, 02:41
Lotto-Jumbo #jumbo at Vetrlidsalmenningen. Notice last rider conducting the cheering from the crowd  :)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/37138742432_68e9451fa3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLeo)lotto-jumbo TTT Vetrlidsalmenningen (https://flic.kr/p/YzPLeo)

ID the riders anyone?
Ooohhh, they're all a bit on the dark side, aren't they?

Post Merge: September 20, 2017, 02:54
. . .

In the first group starting 13:05 there are a few outsiders for the podium like  *kz Alexay Lutsenko starting first, then  *de Jasha Sutterlin and a long list of no-nevers, including  *dk Lasse Norman Hansen who will probably be hoping for the Fløyen to tilt back to level for a while, and then go back to normal.

In the second group starting 13:50 there are a few very interesting riders like  *no Andreas Vangstad (only because I will be cheering for him)  so it is very interesting. Andreas has a decent time trial and is not a poor climber, and I hope he can compete with  *no Edvald Boasson Hagen on this course.  Edvald Boasson Hagen is a good time trialist but he could be a lot better if he actually practiced, so I really hope someone beats him in a serious race soon.  . . .

Ahahahaha! You guys have got me in stitches today! I see we are a bit disappointed in Boassen Hagen, eh? Well, ok, then I will cheer for Vangstad, also. Should I bet on him?

I am a bit amazed at the positive forecast for Dumoulin - but hey - I really like him as a rider - so "Shields On!" Forward and upward. Only way to go.

Oh, hey, this seems to be shaping up as a real crackin' Worlds this year!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 20, 2017, 07:38
I think there will be few spectators on those laps, and everyone, their dog and their mother up Fløyen somewhere. Net effect, the crowd gets 5* 30 mins breaks => drunk spectator issues. Or maybe just happy. We'll see..
I think they count on the fact that beer is so hilariously expensive in Norway that nobody can afford more than one. :lol
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: search on September 20, 2017, 10:41
EBH said he will use a road bike for the whole course, not sure if that's a good idea. Haven't heard anything like that from others so far.

Dumoulin says the climb isn't as steep as it looks like on the profile, he even claims the measurements are wrong. According to him it's 3k at ~7% only
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 20, 2017, 11:19
Dumoulin says the climb isn't as steep as it looks like on the profile, he even claims the measurements are wrong. According to him it's 3k at ~7% only
RideWithGPS gives me 298 altitude metres over 3.4 km. Granted, that's 8.7% and not 9.1%, but it's still far closer to that than it is to 7%.

Maybe Dumoulin has simply become so good a climber that 9% feel to him now as 7% did a few years ago? :D

Also, it appears to be raining in Bergen. Was bound to happen, three days without (much) rain are the absolute exception from the rule (which is "it always rains in Bergen").
Title: Re: World Championships 2017: Bergen, Norway!
Post by: LukasCPH on September 20, 2017, 16:52
Wow. Just wow. :o
What a course. :cool
What an absolute MASS of spectators on the climb. :D

And what a performance by #teamnl Tom Dumoulin, adding the ITT #rainbow to his #pink Giro win.
:pray

Nobody was even close: Difference between 1st & 2nd bigger than that between 2nd and 13th.




Medal table after 5/10 events:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *nl Netherlands 2 1 0
2 *it Italy 1 2 0
3 *uk Great Britain 1 0 1
4 *dk Denmark 1 0 0
5 *si Slovenia 0 1 0
6 *us USA 0 1 0
7 *au Australia 0 0 2
8 *fr France 0 0 1
9 *pl Poland 0 0 1
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 20, 2017, 17:17
https://twitter.com/cyclingnieuws1/status/910535189918617600
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 20, 2017, 17:48
The all important climbing splits.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKLcc05W0AA0a8o.jpg)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Francois the Postman on September 20, 2017, 19:24
Only clocked the other day that this party is taking place in your backyard T-72. Congrats on throwing a spiffing one! Nice to see actual crowds on a WC, having a ball, and the superb Norwegian Police response to running fans. More of that please. All that unarmed response training really paying off there. Loved the Eritrean posse turning out for their rider too, I have a lot of time for these global coming togethers, and Norway is certainly doing it in style, against a great backdrop, with a gem of a circuit. Enjoy the coming weekend road-side!   
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Archieboy on September 20, 2017, 19:33
Only clocked the other day that this party is taking place in your backyard T-72. Congrats on throwing a spiffing one! Nice to see actual crowds on a WC, having a ball, and the superb Norwegian Police response to running fans. More of that please. All that unarmed response training really paying off there. Loved the Eritrean posse turning out for their rider too, I have a lot of time for these global coming togethers, and Norway is certainly doing it in style, against a great backdrop, with a gem of a circuit. Enjoy the coming weekend road-side!

Yes this :cool
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 20, 2017, 21:10
. . . Congrats on throwing a spiffing one! Nice to see actual crowds on a WC, having a ball, and the superb Norwegian Police response to running fans.  . . . Norway is certainly doing it in style, against a great backdrop, with a gem of a circuit. . . .

GOT to say it! I have to third this! Best Worlds in years! And what a year for the Dutch!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 20, 2017, 21:25
It isn't really in my backyard but they are racing around my house  :D glad to read y'all enjoy this watching on TV too. On the streets it is great. Dumoulin is a big winner now with 2 out of 3 possible victories  here, but it is actually cycling, the sport, which is the even bigger winner. Love it  :cool

PS: Dumoulin is in such good shape now, I think we need to put him on the favorites list for sunday.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 21, 2017, 03:39
Ok, now - t-72: What about this Salmon Hill for the RR? How will Sagan manage on it?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 21, 2017, 18:23
Junior Women's RR Start List:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 21, 2017, 18:28
U23 Men's RR Start List:

Spoiler (hover to show)

10-20 potential winners?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 21, 2017, 19:11
10-20 potential winners?

Let's see:
*no Halvorsen is their best man, but don't underestimate Foss or Skaarseth. Tiller is elite national champion, so he's good too. And Wærsted is option B for a sprint. And I'll take Forfang in as well for good measure.
*dk Casper P. and Carbel are probably the leaders; Asgreen or Gregaard could be part of an early attack that makes it. Bjerg is the ITT world champion.
*be Allegaert and Lambrecht, plus Philipsen. A very strong team.
*fr Cosnefroy or Madouas for me, Bonnamour and Thomas after that.
*gb Knox would have to attack on the climb; I don't know the rest well enough.
*ru Nych & Sivakov will have to be watched very closely.
*co Hodeg for a sprint, Dani Martinez for attacks.
*ch Hirschi & Müller
*cz Schlegel
*it Affini, Albanese, Carboni ... another very strong team.
*us Oien might try something, but Powless is probably their strongest card.
*nl Jakobsen will still be around in the end in all but the hardest race scenarios, and he can sprint. Eenkhoorn isn't bad either.
*lu Wirtgen impressed me in the ITT, don't let him out of sight.
*au Hindley, Storer, Scotson
*ie Mark Downey at a stretch
*jp Onodera, maybe - but that's even more of a stretch
*pt Ivo Oliveira
*at Gamper
*kz Gidich
*ua nope, nobody that jumps out
*de Schinnagel and Nowak are good on the hill, Kanter is a good sprinter; Kämna can do a late finisseur attack or just follow moves
*cr *ch *ar nope
*by Riabushenko, definitely
*mx nope
*pl Paluta or Banaszek at a stretch
*hk *lb *fi *az nope
*se Höög
*sk nope
*ee Lauk, or even Mäoma
*lv nope
*es Carretero, Ivan Garcia, or Samitier
*rs Rajovic
*si Pogacar
*er Zemenfes Solomon has a good sprint if he's still around at the finish
*rw Areruya is a good climber, should be able to follow moves on the hill
*ca *il *pa *nz *bg *cy nope
*hu Pelikán, just because
*mc nope
*dz A. Mansouri
*mk not really
*mn *gr *ve *uy nope
*ma Zahiri & Sahbaoui aren't bad as such
*ug nope

That's 63 names I highlighted. If half of those make the top-40 tomorrow, that would be a very good result with my prediction skills. :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 21, 2017, 22:48
Ok, now - t-72: What about this Salmon Hill for the RR? How will Sagan manage on it?

The "Salmon Hill" (which in everyday life is known as Landåslien) is a dominant feature of the road race, but it is a far less selective climb than the ones that have dominated the races so far: The shorter and steeper Birkelundsbakken, and the longer and steeper climb up to Fløyen: The maximum gradient is below 10 % and it is a mostly wide road with soft curves on the way up. It's an uphill drag without well defined focus point  for attacks. I think it will have the greater impact in the men's elite road race, because they will have to go up there 11 times.  I think the main impact will be to wear riders down, thinning the field and set  up conditions for late move and decisive attacks. Teams without sprinters will try to set the pace so the better sprinters get dropped. TEams with good sprinters will try to control it with their sprinters in protected positions.

 I am less certain that the winning move will go on the Salmon Hill, but in-shape versions of Peter Sagan, Michael Matthews, Greg van Avermaet, Michail Kwiatkowski, Julian Alaphilipppe  and lets not forget Tom Dumoulin  and EDvald Boasson Hagen will probably not be dropped on this climb.  The race may be settled until the technical city streets, which (from the looks of it) could work for technically skilled riders like...Sagan.

Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 22, 2017, 07:43
Let me add to the above: I am really curious to see if the salmon hill will be decisive in the races where it is climbed fewer times:

Friday (today):
Women's junior: 4 laps
Men's U-23: 10 laps

Saturday:
Men's junior: 4 laps
Women's elite: 8 laps

Sunday:
Men's elite: 11 laps

Looks like the men's U-23 race will be the best predictor for how the men's elite race will play out. It is not a given that the impact will be the same in all classes.


Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: search on September 22, 2017, 08:27
Let me add to the above: I am really curious to see if the salmon hill will be decisive in the races where it is climbed fewer times:

Friday (today):
Women's junior: 4 laps
Men's U-23: 10 laps

Saturday:
Men's junior: 4 laps
Women's elite: 8 laps

Sunday:
Men's elite: 11 laps

Looks like the men's U-23 race will be the best predictor for how the men's elite race will play out. It is not a given that the impact will be the same in all classes.

not that it makes much of a difference, but in the men's elite race they will climb it 12 times (the first lap doesn't seem to be counted as it isn't a full lap - they enter the circuit after 1km or so)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 22, 2017, 09:10
not that it makes much of a difference, but in the men's elite race they will climb it 12 times (the first lap doesn't seem to be counted as it isn't a full lap - they enter the circuit after 1km or so)
Same for men's juniors, they do four full laps plus one, so five ascents of the hill.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: search on September 22, 2017, 11:19
Wielerflits did a preview for today:

**** Vincenzo Albanese
*** Iván García, Aliaksandr Riabushenko
** Kristoffer Halvorsen, Damien Touzé, Michael Storer
* Patrick Müller, Fabio Jakobsen, Michael Carbel Svendgaard, Jasper Philipsen

http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/302774/wk-2017-voorbeschouwing-wegrit-beloften.html
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 22, 2017, 18:01
Wow. Just wow. Again. :o
Two magnificent races to start off the second part of the Worlds. :win

First the women's juniors raced four laps of the circuit, and they raced from the gun. *dk Emma Norsgaard got a gap on the descent from the hill on the first lap and kept going for some time, but eventually decided it was too early still and dropped back.
There were several moves, but the next to really get a gap was *it Elena Pirrone on the penultimate lap with almost 30 km to go ... and she just kept going. Her teammates, especially Paternoster, did a good job of shutting down any chasers, and Pirrone could celebrate a great victory. Supported by Bohé, Norsgaard kept her powder dry in the finish and took silver ahead of a very strong Paternoster.



And in the afternoon, the U23 delivered what was an even better race. 10 laps of the circuit, and here, too, the race was on from the start. Two groups merged into a break of 12, including five Africans, five Europeans, and two Japanese: *jp Oka, *jp Yamamoto, *pt José Fernandes, *ua Novakovskiy, *by Strokau, *se Höög, *er Habtom, *er Musie, *er Solomon, *rw Mugisha, *hu Pelikán, and *ma Zahiri. They kept a gap of around two minutes for some time, while the peloton was controlled by *no with *dk sitting on their wheels. Eritrea having three riders in the break, as well as Japan having two, made for some speculation about their tactics, and if they could keep one of their riders fresh enough to go with later moved coming up from behind.

Halfway through the race, the twelve were slowly brought back, and other riders started attacking. A strong group of eight formed, including *se Höög from the early break plus *au Hindley, *ru Sivakov, *no Tiller, *us McNulty, *ch Müller, *kz Gidich, and *uk Davies, and built a gap of up to one-and-a-half minutes before the peloton woke up and brought them back to more manageable 23 seconds at the start of the penultimate.

Then the race exploded completely, riders attacked not only on the climb, but already on the run-in, and others simply pushed a high pace over the hill hoping to fracture the peloton and form groups that way. The situation changed constantly on the downhill & false flat, with the field in single file, riders coming to the front, dropping back, and chasing others down. It all came back together on the part after the cobbles, winding through Sandviken and back to Bergen along the sea, and a large peloton of 80 started the final lap together.

Again there was a move in the slightly rising run-in to the actual climb, with *fr Madouas & Thomas represented in the group of six along with *co Paredes, *it Albanese, *uy Moreira, and *au Storer. Defending champion and home country favourite *no Kristoffer "Doffen" Halvorsen couldn't keep up on the final climb up Salmon Hill, meaning that the great work of his teammates was for nought (apart from an impressive show of strength - Joker Icopal would be more than ready for PCT status if only they wanted to step up and/or had the sponsorship for it).

*de Kämna attacked from the peloton just before the climb, joined the front, took a short breather, then powered on solo. He had about 12 seconds at the top, and he's an accomplished timetrialist (former junior world champion, and just won the TTT with Sunweb on Sunday). *fr Cosnefroy was part of a chasing group of four, but went down the descent like a falcon, dropping his companions and taking up the chase of the German in front of him. *co Paredes, after shooting up the climb like a rocket, was also in between the front and the peloton for some time. Cosnefroy caught Kämna on Kalfaret, and they worked together alright, keeping a slender gap on the peloton through the cobbles of Vetrlidsalmenningen & Øvregaten.

Had the circuit turned left after that, going onto Bryggen and on to the finish immediately, they would have had time to play cat-and-mouse with each other - but the 3-km detour through Sandviken meant that the peloton stood more than a real chance of catching them and bringing about a bunch sprint for the #rainbow jersey. Kämna even disrupted the cooperation by attacking with 3.8 km to go, but couldn't shake off the Frenchman. Paredes was reeled in, and several other riders tried jumping from the peloton, but didn't get away. The front duo persisted and went into the last turns a few seconds ahead of the peloton. Cosnefroy opened the sprint, and Kämna had nothing left to answer with, giving the gold medal to France. *dk Carbel won the bunch sprint for bronze.




Medal table after 7/10 events:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *it Italy 2 2 1
2 *nl Netherlands 2 1 0
3 *dk Denmark 1 1 1
4 *fr France 1 0 1
5 *uk Great Britain 1 0 1
6 *de Germany 0 1 0
7 *si Slovenia 0 1 0
8 *us USA 0 1 0
9 *au Australia 0 0 2
10 *pl Poland 0 0 1
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 22, 2017, 18:16
Kämna looked so good the last lap up Sollien, but he may have burned too much there.
Personally, I have declared a 12 hour phase of grief  :( TT TT

Attackers vs sprinters 2-0

Tomorrow the tables will turn. We (meaing *no) don't have a sprinter  :D

The way this tactically plays out I think I can see sprinters like Aleksander Kristoff struggling on Sunday.

EDIT: Sollien = upper part of "Salmon hill".
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 22, 2017, 19:32
The sprinters still have a chance over the next couple of days. They just need to have enough helpers left on the last lap after the climbing. Easier said than done I know, but with the general level being higher in the elite races imo it's more likely to happen there.

An MSR re-match between Sagan, Kwiatkowski and Alaphilippe would be something though. :high
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 22, 2017, 19:51
Junior Men's RR Start List:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Interestingly this has more starters than the U23 race today.

Only two Australian riders and only the one in the Junior Women's today. Was that all they qualified or all they could afford or was it a case of "it's not track we don't care"?

Some random names to watch out for: Gazzoli (off to join Polartec for 2018), Evenepoel, Matsuda, Arthur Kluckers (what a name), Tyler Cole (http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=7697.0;message=2220583), Turuk and 3 Israelis (sadly none of them called Guy).
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 22, 2017, 20:07
Elite Women's RR Start List:

Spoiler (hover to show)

http://www.astanawomen.com/single-post/2017/09/18/Six-riders-racing-in-Bergen

If you were wondering like me where Arlenis Sierra is, she suffered a "vertebral" injury at the PanAm Championships.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 22, 2017, 20:09
https://twitter.com/Under19Zone/status/911298590445797376
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Not My Circus on September 23, 2017, 00:35
I hesitate to post this because I don't like posting videos of crashes. However this from the U23 men's race made my blood run cold.

https://twitter.com/GranFondoGuide/status/911326163963957249

The rider is *fi Joni Kanvera. Finnish Cycling report that he was taken to hospital and underwent surgery. His condition is stable but he has broken ribs, collarbone and is badly bruised with cuts to his face. That's bad enough, but it could have been so much worse.

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/911329102061293568

Obviously the car that hit Joni swung out to pass the car that had stopped to service the Irish rider. I don't know what the 'etiquette' is for following support cars, but this isn't right. It's looks and is dangerous driving and I can't believe the car just drove off!

NRK report (https://www.nrk.no/sport/vm-syklist-til-sykehus-etter-stygg-ulukke-1.13702097) the matter has been reported to the police and contains more details.

Hoping Joni heals well.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: AG on September 23, 2017, 07:27
Ok so I am away on holidays and haven't been able to watch any of these races. I know nothing about the course except what is written here (essentially that it's a ripper )

I will (hopefully) get to watch some or maybe even most of the race tomorrow though

So - what can I expect ?   


Is this a race for Phil?   
Can Sagan get a three-peat?
Aussies are all in for Matthews ... is that a realistic chance?

Or is it more for the likes of Kristoff and the sprinters ?


Please thought do have one request  - I do NOT want to have to deal with a ear of GVA in rainbows. :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: AG on September 23, 2017, 07:34

Interestingly this has more starters than the U23 race today.

Only two Australian riders and only the one in the Junior Women's today. Was that all they qualified or all they could afford or was it a case of "it's not track we don't care"?

Some random names to watch out for: Gazzoli (off to join Polartec for 2018), Evenepoel, Matsuda, Arthur Kluckers (what a name), Tyler Cole (http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=7697.0;message=2220583), Turuk and 3 Israelis (sadly none of them called Guy).

Not sure about the junior selection but I know for the women Aus qualified 7 but they only chose 5 saying "quality over quantity". Hosting and Neylan took it to CAS and won - and were both added to the squad - but the squad are not at all happy with the new manager
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Not My Circus on September 23, 2017, 08:07
Finding it hard to put into words just how much I've enjoyed this Worlds. All the TTT/ITT's were fascinating. I don't think I'll forget the scenes on Mount Fløyen for a long time and I wish we'd seen the elite women tackle it also. The whole bike change drama, there were some shockers, and the tactics that played out over it. It was fitting that the podium contained a changer and a non changer. And as a bonus twitter was much more like a couple of years ago with a joyful feeling rather than the snipe fest it can so often be these days.[1]

The two RR we have seen have been brilliant, and I have the say the parcours is superbly balanced between attackers and sprint finishers and has produced some nail-biting finishes. So far the attackers have carried the day. We shall see if this continues, but I suspect the balance will swing in the elites.

I only have to read the content on here (take a bow EVERYONE) to see it's been the same for you guys. t-72 you must be having an absolute blast, I smile when I think of you out there (btw, did you take the beers in your backpack on Weds??)  The organisers are really living up to the hashtag #racetocelebrate it's felt like that every time I watch. That goes for their social media too...

This one caught my eye yesterday. I thought at first glance it was a tale of a day trip to watch the race pass by, but no, it's much, much better than that. This is proper inclusivity for a section of the population so often disregarded. Loved it  :cool

https://twitter.com/bergen2017/status/911274243832328193

 1. the Danish lions bringing home some metal hasn't harmed my mood either  :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Flo on September 23, 2017, 08:27
I hope Gazzoli does well because he will race for Berto's Conti team next season :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 23, 2017, 08:50
Only two Australian riders and only the one in the Junior Women's today. Was that all they qualified or all they could afford or was it a case of "it's not track we don't care"?
The men's juniors are ranked 22nd in the Nations Cup, which would give them three spots + one spot for the Continental champion.
The women's juniors are ranked 7th, for four spots + one for the Continental champion.
So this is very much a case of "it's not track we don't care".
:angry

The rider is *fi Joni Kanerva. Finnish Cycling report that he was taken to hospital and underwent surgery. His condition is stable but he has broken ribs, collarbone and is badly bruised with cuts to his face. That's bad enough, but it could have been so much worse.
:o That looked awful. :(
I'd say that both car drivers are at fault here:
The first car shouldn't stop so soon after a turn; but of course, that's no excuse for the second car to hit the rider like that. You must be aware of if there's a rider around your car AT ALL TIMES.
I know it was a split-second decision to avoid crashing into the other car ... but here's the thing: Modern cars are incredibly safe. They have airbags, crush-collapsible zones and whatnot. Cyclists are basically naked. Maybe people who drive cars in a bike race should be taught that in this situation, if you're not 1000% sure there are no cyclists around, it's better to hit the brakes and crash into the car in front of you than to suddenly swerve like that.

Ok so I am away on holidays and haven't been able to watch any of these races. I know nothing about the course except what is written here (essentially that it's a ripper )
It's not even that much of a ripper, could have been made harder:
The climb isn't hard enough to really get away with an attack (though the descent & false flat are so technical & fast that you can extend your advantage here if you're good, and won't lose your advantage unless you're really bad - and then you wouldn't be off the front in the first place).
And the 3-km detour through Sandviken very much puts a chasing peloton at the advantage over any attackers.

It's still a great course, of course. :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 23, 2017, 13:39
. . .

Please thought do have one request  - I do NOT want to have to deal with a ear of GVA in rainbows. :D
:lol  It took me more than a minute to figure out what you meant - I think "ear" threw me off!
Quote
Please though I do have one request  - I do NOT want to have to deal with a year of GVA in rainbows.
Right?


Two magnificent races to start off the second part of the Worlds. :win
 . . .
Lukas, CHAPEAU! Your reporting on the women's and U23 was better than anything I've seen from the likes of CN. I didn't get live streaming.

. . .
:o That looked awful. :(
I'd say that both car drivers are at fault here:
The first car shouldn't stop so soon after a turn; but of course, that's no excuse for the second car to hit the rider like that. You must be aware of if there's a rider around your car AT ALL TIMES.
I know it was a split-second decision to avoid crashing into the other car ... . . .
Watching it, it seems obvious to me that the 2nd driver had a momentary lapse of attention, and failed to slow when the car in front did. The results were sufficiently catastrophic - I am glad they were not worse. That driver should be carrying a large lesson today, as he goes forward.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: search on September 23, 2017, 14:33
first star ratings for tomorrow:

*be Het Nieuwsblad
:*:*:*:*:* Sagan
:*:*:*:* GvA, Matthews
:*:*:* Gilbert, Kwiat, EBH
:*:* Trentin, Dumoulin, Gaviria, Kristoff
:* Costa, Wellens, Ulissi, Alaphilippe, Stybar


*nl de Telegraaf
:*:*:*:*:* Sagan, Kwiatkowski
:*:*:*:* EBH, GvA, Matthews
:*:*:* Dumoulin, Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Trentin
:*:* Boom, Poels, Wellens, Kreistoff. Gallopin, Ulissi
:* Terpstra, Mollema, Herrada, D. Martin, Swift, Gaviria, Kragh
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 23, 2017, 17:05
. . .
Watching it, it seems obvious to me that the 2nd driver had a momentary lapse of attention, and failed to slow when the car in front did. The results were sufficiently catastrophic - I am glad they were not worse. That driver should be carrying a large lesson today, as he goes forward.

BTW, regarding that accident? I recently saw a sign at a golf course that is applicable. I can not remember the exact wording, but to paraphrase: "You are not the players in front of the players behind you. You are the players behind the players in front of you. "  It is equally applicable to the situation for motor traffic.

When cycling, especially team time trialing, it is sometimes different, and only because drafting is so important to a cyclist. In motor traffic you should ONLY be concerned about the traffic ahead of you, and primarily the one directly ahead of you. The 2nd driver lost sight of that for a second or three, and that was 3 seconds too many.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 23, 2017, 17:24
 So, the Dutch mega women chase down the eventual Dutch winner, who would have won in any case, then mark themselves out of silver and bronze. :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 23, 2017, 18:56
Elite Men's RR Start List:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 23, 2017, 19:08
At the danger of repeating myself:
Wow. :cool


In the men's juniors race, the #teamdk Danish team brought a dangerous break back from 1'20" to around 30" - and then Julius Johansen showed everyone who is boss, making the other boys in the race look like, well, boys:
He bridged to the front group solo, then went solo from the front group, and with one-and-a-half laps to go[1]. Julius kept a small, but steady gap into the final lap, didn't lose any time on the last time up Salmon Hill (despite half the #teamit Italian team attacking the peloton and each other), and then gunned the descent and false flat.

Juniors race on restricted gears, and he was so fast that pedalling wouldn't have made any sense, so he got into an aero tuck and just went for it. In the chase that was left further and further behind, more than one rider was spinning out his gears in the effort to get closer, but it just wouldn't be. Once the road didn't go downhill anymore, Johansen sat back up and pedalled with such souplesse that he actually increased his advantage even further, winning a well-deserved #rainbow world title with a 51-second gap.

Behind, the one of the three Italians in the chase managed to just stay ahead of the peloton, and another (who had been caught with about 3 km to go) won the bunch sprint. The third finished in seventh place, giving the Italians two medals and three top-10 placings. You might think they could - maybe should - have won with better tactics, but to be honest, *dk Julius Johansen was simply in a class of his own today.




The women's elite race saw a #teamnl Dutch team that was head and shoulders above everyone, placing riders in every escape and being in control of the race at every moment. They could even afford to chase down their own riders, so strong was the team. But once the decisive attack was placed, the other Dutchwomen put their own ambitions aside and policed the chase group, disrupting the chase (not that there was much of one) and ensuring a win for their teammate.

That teammate was Chantal Blaak. Often riding in support of her (trade) teammates herself, everything aligned for her today: After an early crash, she got back into the peloton with road rash on the left leg and shoulder and a ripped kit, and after a dangerous move of 13 (including 3 Dutchwomen) that went on Salmon Hill on, you guessed it, the penultimate lap couldn't cooperate and was brought back, Blaak went off the front and was joined by #teamgb Hannah Barnes and #teamfr Audrey Cordon.

The trio started the final lap half a minute ahead of the peloton. On the last ascent of Salmon Hill, Annemiek van Vleuten opened proceedings from the peloton, but then #teampl Kaśia Niewiadoma pulled out all the stops, taking three other riders (#teamau Katrin Garfoot and the Dutch duo of AvV and Anna van der Breggen) with her in a ferocious attack. A massive pull by AvV brought this quartet to the front trio, and with three of the seven leaders in an orange jersey, this was now the Dutch team's race to lose.

But how were they going to win? Their strongest sprinter Blaak had to be tired, and AvV & AvdB, while impressive rouleurs, would likely lose a sprint against Barnes, Niewiadoma or Cordon. It was now that AvV sacrificed herself for the team, taking another huge turn on the front of the group once they had hit the (false-flat downhill) main road after the descent from the hill. And when she let off the pace, the now-so-tired-after-all Blaak went all-in, attacking from the back of the group and into the tunnel below the Haukeland hospital.

When they emerged from the tunnel, she was way ahead of the remaining six riders in the group that was no longer the front group, and with two Dutch riders (the Olympic champion and the freshly-crowned ITT world champion, no less!) on their heels, the four non-Dutch riders hesitated in chasing Blaak. Niewiadoma finally moved on the road to Sandviken after the cobbled section, but by then it was far, far too late, and Blaak was riding towards the #rainbow title. The chase group was swarmed by the sprinters in the final, with Garfoot just holding on for silver. #teamdk Amalie Dideriksen had the strongest kick on the last 50 metres and took bronze.




Medal table after 9/10 events:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *nl Netherlands 3 1 0
2 *it Italy 2 3 2
3 *dk Denmark 2 1 2
4 *fr France 1 0 1
5 *uk Great Britain 1 0 1
6 *au Australia 0 1 2
7 *de Germany 0 1 0
8 *si Slovenia 0 1 0
9 *us USA 0 1 0
10 *pl Poland 0 0 1
 1. see a common theme here?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 23, 2017, 23:31
just to say hi, and yes, I am having a blast :)

For the second half of the women's race I was on "Salmon hill" (again), and it was awesome. I can walk from home to watch world class cycling, it is in Bergen, it is late September and I was wearing shorts and t-shirts all day. Chances are tomorrow I'll have to bring sunscreen instead of umbrella  :S

And then, the racing was really cool to follow up close, and the Norwegian women's team surprised us with really good performances, especially by Vita Heine and Susanne Andersen. I think Vita (our "adopted" Bergen girl) probably had the best race of her career. She was instrumental on bringing the peloton back together with the front group, setting up for Susanne Andersen to go for the sprint, scoring a 7th which is somewhat surprisingly Norway's best result to date.

Susanne is an unusual talent and I think we will see her develop into a female version of Aleksander Kristoff. She even talks like him, making bold statements and being brutally honest about everything. I might add she has the same trainer (Stein Ørn) same club background and that she at times trains with Kristoff too.

Tomorrow, back at "Salmon hill" with some friends, and some thousand cycling fans.  :cool
I still think it will be a Sagan vs Kwiatkowski vs GvA battle, but that isn't so bad... :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 24, 2017, 03:08
. . . some thousand cycling fans.  :cool
I still think it will be a Sagan vs Kwiatkowski vs GvA battle, but that isn't so bad... :)

How much is Norway paying those fans? OMFG! SO MANY!  Love it! ;)

I'm watching the UCI full race broadcast (recorded) of the women's. Helps to see the on-the-road reactions and difficulty. Nice course, BTW, although that has been said. Not selective the first time, but do it 5 times or more, and it gets that way!

I don't think Kwiat is the man to win this one. Good course for Sagan, Phil Gil, or GVA. Kwiat might do it in a long break, I think.

If the teams actually work like teams to any degree, and they manage to keep things together in the last km, we might see Kristoff. Doubt that, tho. Teamwork never seems to me to be a forte in the men's worlds.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 24, 2017, 13:47
I saw last night that Dumoulin is actively targeting the road win. Now THAT would be something - do you think Kelderman and Mollema would work as well as the Dutch women did? They could go for the same game plan. They have the team strength. If they actually pulled that off, it would be as massive as Sagan getting a 3-peat.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 24, 2017, 17:32
No energy left for an in-depth report.
But I found this another very good and utterly unpredictable race that could have gone any number of ways, and a great way to end a wonderful Worlds week.

Chapeau to the following riders:
#teamie Conor Dunne & Sean McKenna, #teamaz Elchin Asadov, #teamza Willie Smit, #teamal Eugert Zhupa, #teamma Salaheddine Mraouni, #teamse Kim Magnusson, #teamcr Andrey Amador, #teamus Alexey Vermeulen & #teamfi Matti Manninen for going into the early break

#teambe Tim Wellens for initiating the break of eight subtoppers that stayed out front for almost two laps, as well as #teamnl Lars Boom, #teames David de la Cruz, #teamit Alessandro de Marchi, #teamno Odd Christian Eiking, #teamau Jack Haig, #teamat Marco Haller & #teamco Jarlinson Pantano for going with him

#teamnl Tom Dumoulin for not only showing up, but trying something - though I expected him to try more

#teamdk Michael Valgren for starting proceedings on the last climb of Salmon Hill

#teamfr Julian Alaphilippe for what could well have been the winning attack, shaking some of the best puncheurs in the world off his wheel

#teamby Vasil' Kiryienka for taking his chance and trying to chase down Alaphilippe & Moscon on his own (well, with Pöstlberger on his wheel)

#teamco Fernando Gaviria for not only going with the moves on the hill, but apparently[1] attacking on the last kilometres as well

#teamdk Magnus Cort for making a late attack for the title

#teamno The whole Norwegian team for taking responsibility for the race for a long time, and almost making it a dream finish with Kristoff just beaten to the line.

#teamsk Peter Sagan for keeping cooler than any cucumber, staying in the peloton all race (except for a short move after Gaviria's, apparently), putting all his eggs in the sprint basket - and pulling off an unprecedented 3rd #rainbow world title in a row

But most of all, a big, big TAKK to Bergen and the hundreds of thousands of (mostly Norwegian) spectators who made this the best Worlds I can remember. :pray




Final medal table:
/gm /sm /bm
1 *nl Netherlands 3 1 0
2 *it Italy 2 3 2
3 *dk Denmark 2 1 2
4 *fr France 1 0 1
5 *uk Great Britain 1 0 1
6 *sk Slovakia 1 0 0
7 *au Australia 0 1 3
8 *no Norway 0 1 0
9 *de Germany 0 1 0
10 *si Slovenia 0 1 0
11 *us USA 0 1 0
12 *pl Poland 0 0 1
 1. we don't know for sure because of the lack of TV pictures from 4 km to go until 800 metres to go
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 24, 2017, 17:44
Also, #teamit Gianni Moscon (who had made it to the wheel of Alaphilippe and was in the running for the title) has been disqualified for getting a tow from the team car after a crash.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 24, 2017, 19:01
This disqualification is unfair given the countless precedents in the last few decades of riders being aided after a crash, whether being car-paced or towed this way: Example in mind Tom Boonen with the Mr Bookmaker car at the 2004 E3 Harelbeke.

Nothing much else to say about this race. It seems that next year is a Worlds with a route comparable to a real classic, so let's turn this page and focus on what is to come.  :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 24, 2017, 19:11
Here's the part of the race we didn't see:
http://www.tv2.no/sport/9384804/ (http://www.tv2.no/sport/9384804/)

There was a loss of electrical power on Fløyen which caused the loss of live footage from the moto cameras, leaving only the fixed cameras on the final kilometre.
As Norwegian TV commentator said, "it was almost like a cross-country skiing race on Holmenkollen. Who emerges from the forest first". :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: DJW on September 24, 2017, 20:17
Great week, great course, great fans, and a great climax to the championships.


Circa 2013-4 I really didn't like Peter Sagan because I thought he thought he was better than he was, and didn't know how to race.
Over the past few years, to me at least, he as learned a great deal of humility and strategy.

We didn't see a lot of him towards the end of the race (well, we didn't see anything of 3-1km to go) but he rode it perfectly.

A few years ago we would have seen him closing down Alaphilippe, Kiri, Cort, Barguil and every other attack by himself. And perhaps he didn't do it with as much panache as he did in Richmond (or might have done in MSR this year) but 3 WCs in a row is a hell of a way to cement your position as a legend. At the age of 27. Crazy.

It might take him a few years (looking at Innsbruck in particular), but I don't doubt that he will win a fourth.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Servais Knavendish on September 24, 2017, 20:19
Gutted for Bergen that the blue ribbon finale was hampered by loss of images; but Sagan, oh my word, from nowhere, ghosted to the front of the race and won comfortably, cometh the worlds comethth the man, fantastic for him, and cycling, that the world icon of the sport did what he does...

Roll on MSR!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 24, 2017, 21:34
The moment the sport has an "icon", there is a problem.

Sagan worship is getting unbearable, really. Legend him? The least sprint finish becomes fantastic with him, just because he wheelies to celebrate wins. If it were Gaviria winning, everybody would agree it was dull...
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 24, 2017, 22:04
The moment the sport has an "icon", there is a problem.

Sagan worship is getting unbearable, really. Legend him? The least sprint finish becomes fantastic with him, just because he wheelies to celebrate wins. If it were Gaviria winning, everybody would agree it was dull...

I tend to agree with you...................for once.
It's a bit too full on in the worship dept, for my taste.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 24, 2017, 22:50
No energy left for an in-depth report.
But I found this another very good and utterly unpredictable race that could have gone any number of ways, and a great way to end a wonderful Worlds week.
 . . .

But most of all, a big, big TAKK to Bergen and the hundreds of thousands of (mostly Norwegian) spectators who made this the best Worlds I can remember. :pray


Yes, a big TAKK to Bergen!  And glad to hear you had a great time!  Wonderful to watch!

I, too, was highly suspicious of Sagan in his first years - firstly because I doubted the reality of his talent - thinking there must have been a bottle involved somewhere. Secondly because he seemed more than a bit audacious - so much so that he seemed disrespectful. But having come to see that is simply a part of his joie-de-vivre, and smelling no taint of scandalous support regimes, I have come to greatly enjoy his massive talent.

Thanks to Lukas for that 5 minute clip covering what we didn't see! Alaphillipe didn't last long after the feed died. Gaviria got a 3 second gap and managed to hold it for a bit. But you know something? We have a lot of very strong riders at the top these days. There were a LOT of people burning a LOT of matches trying to make a break stick - and no one managed it. It wasn't the same guys bringing it all back together each time - it was a LOT of guys bringing it back together.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Drummer Boy on September 25, 2017, 04:11
Here's the part of the race we didn't see:
http://www.tv2.no/sport/9384804/ (http://www.tv2.no/sport/9384804/)

That link didn't work for me, but this one does:
https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/912018053927489539 (https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/912018053927489539)

I have always enjoyed the rare times when you get raw video footage without commentary.
I find it much more compelling. 
:cool
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 25, 2017, 08:30
He was of course less dislikeable in his early days with Liquigas but that goes without saying.  :P
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 25, 2017, 10:51
I've always liked Sagan's personality. I think the reason i didn't want him to succeed initially was I was afraid he'd become too dominant. But actually he's become one of a number of great riders of the current era and I'd be happier to see him win than most of his rivals, a number of whom have a much stronger whiff of suspicion about them.


P.s. Why did Gaviria attempt to attack and not wait for the sprint, surely he was the fastest sprinter left?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 25, 2017, 11:03
I've always liked Sagan's personality. I think the reason i didn't want him to succeed initially was I was afraid he'd become too dominant. But actually he's become one of a number of great riders of the current era and I'd be happier to see him win than most of his rivals, a number of whom have a much stronger whiff of suspicion about them.


P.s. Why did Gaviria attempt to attack and not wait for the sprint, surely he was the fastest sprinter left?

 Not sure who you are referring to there.
What are their degrees of whiffery? :D
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Servais Knavendish on September 25, 2017, 11:23
The moment the sport has an "icon", there is a problem.

Clearly I take a contra view - all sports with an interest in a professional funding model need personalities, to build engagement and interest with fans.  It also helps if there are dominant champions that the public can side for or against.  Yes we over use the word icon, but it is useful in the marketing of a sport to have someone like Sagan that will command press reports and online clicks, far more than if say, Gaviria had pulled on those glorious bands.



Sagan worship is getting unbearable, really. Legend him? The least sprint finish becomes fantastic with him, just because he wheelies to celebrate wins. If it were Gaviria winning, everybody would agree it was dull...

I am not sure it is worship, but he is now a triple world champion; >100 race wins; multiple GC stage wins; >multi year green jersey winner; so again whilst legend is over used - he has made a significant impact on the sport and is probably already somewhere in the top 20 riders of all time...

I didn't used to be a  fan at all but found myself screaming at the scream yesterday in the hope that he had three-peated - the incredible power of personalities in live sport!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on September 25, 2017, 11:32
I think if Sagan still lost heroically every week people would like him more.

I was at NFLUK so missed the coverage, will try and watch some highlights this week :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 25, 2017, 11:57
Cycling does not need extra media attention and sponsors to inject even more money with such a shaddy personality as Sagan's. He's just putting cycling as low as football, which is indeed very popular and widely media covered but a crap sports with hundreds of Sagans as main protagonists.

If a cycling without Sagan gets fewer sponsors and media attention, so much the better. For that would be real cycling. I'm sorry for you if you need a jerk like him to appreciate this sport. This sport has always managed to work on low-scale with few sponsoring, at least here in Belgium.

Making history while never putting a nose outside the belly of a peloton is overrating. There's already Kittel for that. Making history with I don't know how many wins in a row at the Scheldeprijs. 100 wins? How many in bunch sprints? I really cannot get used to his showoff personality. It's un-cycling. I cannot even enjoy his defeats. Usually I liked it when riders I dislike got beaten but with him his sole presence in the peloton is sufficient to make me wanna puke. No cycling riders at least until the eighties were showoffs. They had their flaws but not that one. It's a sport for the low-profile, humble people. When Hinault won Liège-Bastogne-Liège he did not even raise his arms, let alone wheelied. Sagan is a Tinkov on the bike: wheelies, bunny caps, butt pitching, sour grapes whenever he loses, and body checking riders who get on his way. We don't need those millionairs.

Top20 riders of all time? Him?

I know it's hard to speak negative about him these days but I've been raised into hating showoffness. I was a showoff when a kid. Fortunately my father gave the necessarily slaps whenever I was acting like that. No wonder my dad hates Sagan, realised before me how detestable he is. I know that this post won't get a single like because Sagan is too much beloved on all those boards because he wheelies but with respect to all the adults who've educated me, who've handed me values on when I was a kid: parents, family, teachers, etc. I cannot consider this kid a good man, unless he changes in the future. And if you think that showoffs have great personalities, good on you. Probably it's a matter of culture.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 25, 2017, 12:05
Not sure who you are referring to there.
What are their degrees of whiffery? :D
I was thinking of the Classics when I wrote it. One of the problems with using the term 'Sagan's rivals' is that they span a range of rider types because he does.

I don't think I need to educate someone as knowledgeable as you on controversies surrounding Classics winners from 2010 to the present day. Suffice to say that there seem to be far fewer in recent times.

In order to get the 2010 date as the start of his WT successes, I looked him up in Wikipedia and found out he'd failed a trial with Quickstep. I never knew that and it's pointless but interesting to speculate what might have happened if they'd realised what his potential was.

Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 25, 2017, 12:16
... It's a sport for the low-profile, humble people. When Hinault won Liège-Bastogne-Liège he did not even raise his arms, let alone wheelied...

not sure I've ever heard Hinault described as low profile or humble before, but all sport fandom requires a degree of making allowances for people we are emotionally drawn to and not to those we aren't. It's actually quite refreshing to read passionately held views even if I don't share them.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Servais Knavendish on September 25, 2017, 12:42
Cycling does not need extra media attention and sponsors to inject even more money with such a shaddy personality as Sagan's. He's just putting cycling as low as football, which is indeed very popular and widely media covered but a crap sports with hundreds of Sagans as main protagonists.


Unfortunately at World tour level (infact any professional level) cycling does need media attention to support the significant sponsor investment - that pays the wages.. that attracts the viewers ... that etc etc.

 The very fact that you can't stand Sagan is a good thing (not for you perhaps!) but it  shows that we all form opinions about these people that drives our desire to see these competitors, not necessarily in a positive way - so yes I'll tune into the Vuelta in the hope that someone, anyone, anything has stopped Mr Froome...



If a cycling without Sagan gets fewer sponsors and media attention, so much the better. For that would be real cycling.


No  - that would be 'No' Cycling - the teams that have folded in recent years don't continue somewhere else in a Corinthian spirited world tour, they simply cease.




Top20 riders of all time? Him?



That's probably worth a strand all of its own!

Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 25, 2017, 13:20
I form an opinion on many things and try to talk less and less on this clown but people  always come back to talk about him because he's always wheelying. I've shared a lot of comments in recent weeks about small races which hardly anybody paid any attention to because there are too many showoffs like Sagan on them.

At least likewise I was glad to see that Marc Madiot polarised opinion with his book as I've translated fragments of it here. Whether we like him or not, Madiot draw attention by his words, ideas and opinions. In an adult way. Not because of childish behaviour...


I know that cycling as we know it today needs sponsors and an awful lot of media coverage to support insane wages. Still I'd like to see the whole system collapse. And I'm sure that the sport would then build up again in some form. Many races would disappear and riders would lose their jobs but a lot of races don't need the WT to exist, least of all Sagan.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 25, 2017, 14:37
I was thinking of the Classics when I wrote it. One of the problems with using the term 'Sagan's rivals' is that they span a range of rider types because he does.

I don't think I need to educate someone as knowledgeable as you on controversies surrounding Classics winners from 2010 to the present day. Suffice to say that there seem to be far fewer in recent times.

In order to get the 2010 date as the start of his WT successes, I looked him up in Wikipedia and found out he'd failed a trial with Quickstep. I never knew that and it's pointless but interesting to speculate what might have happened if they'd realised what his potential was.

Ah 2010: I'm with you now. I was thinking more currently and Valverde, but that clears it up.
A couple of well wiffy in one particular classic
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 25, 2017, 16:38
Ah 2010: I'm with you now. I was thinking more currently and Valverde, but that clears it up.
A couple of well wiffy in one particular classic
There's another, more direct, current rival that sprang to my mind but this isn't the correct place to have this conversation.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 25, 2017, 19:07
https://www.bt.no/100Sport/sykkel/Syv-kilometer-for-mal-gikk-Norges-freidige-plan-i-vasken--Jeg-sa-ikke-Edvald_-sier-Kristoff-242737b.html (https://www.bt.no/100Sport/sykkel/Syv-kilometer-for-mal-gikk-Norges-freidige-plan-i-vasken--Jeg-sa-ikke-Edvald_-sier-Kristoff-242737b.html)

The #teamno Norwegian team revealed their game plan for yesterday: Both EBH and Kristoff were to hang on over Salmon Hill, and then EBH would attack with 2-3 km to go. Kristoff would be the plan for the sprint.
As it happened, EBH couldn't keep up with the first group, so Kristoff was left to do the sprint.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 25, 2017, 19:32
Thanks again to Capt Cav and Drummer Boy for the last 4 km clips.

You know, Sagan was running out of steam at the line - he wasn't passing Kristoff. Looking at the finish line clips, esp the overhead, I think Sagan got that win because he had a better throw. I'll bet Kristoff will be putting in some practice this coming year! If anything, Sagan might have actually been a couple of inches behind Kristoff - except for the bike throw. The vids aren't good enough - and when throwing your bike, the body technically moves backward - so its hard to tell - except the photo finish is the bottom line.

Considering the strength and number of guys who gave an attack a try - and opened up gaps - it is a bit amazing it all came back together. A LOT of calories getting burnt there!

BTW - I must have missed Sagan's wheelie this time - did anybody get that on tape?  ;)

Echoes, you've done VR a real service, translating Madiot's book, and thanks for that! Very interesting! But I just can't agree with you regarding Sagan. Colorful and lively personalities are good for the sport. It's like dancing. You go to a dance where everybody is like sticks, with the boys hanging on one side, and the girls on another - and it's no fun! But you get some good music and a beat, and get down and boogy, and swing those legs? Fun! Lots of fun. Enough to lighten one's heart for days and days. Its all about having fun, and Sagan makes it a point to have fun while he is doing racing. And now we've got other riders doing wheelies while climbing in the GTs, etc! It's all good, because they are interacting with the audience - the fans - giving them a laugh - brightening their days a little. It shows us the riders are human, and it lets the riders have some fun as well (which is also very important). Hinault, Merckx - etc - none of those guys were wallflowers. Hey, who's famous for punching a protester blocking the road? Is that wallflower behavior?
   
So, I'll continue to read Madiot, and to cheer Sagan! I will also agree that Sagan is well inside the top numbers of greats now.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Leadbelly on September 25, 2017, 20:45
https://twitter.com/TiesjBenoot/status/912318560701120513

Lesson #1 - Don't mess with Marco Haller

Colourful and lively personalities are good for the sport. It's like dancing. You go to a dance where everybody is like sticks, with the boys hanging on one side, and the girls on another - and it's no fun! But you get some good music and a beat, and get down and boogy, and swing those legs? Fun! Lots of fun. Enough to lighten one's heart for days and days. Its all about having fun, and Sagan makes it a point to have fun while he is doing racing. And now we've got other riders doing wheelies while climbing in the GTs, etc! It's all good, because they are interacting with the audience - the fans - giving them a laugh - brightening their days a little.

What have you done with the real Hiero!? Where's Eeyore?  :P
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 25, 2017, 21:05
You know, Sagan was running out of steam at the line - he wasn't passing Kristoff. Looking at the finish line clips, esp the overhead, I think Sagan got that win because he had a better throw. I'll bet Kristoff will be putting in some practice this coming year! If anything, Sagan might have actually been a couple of inches behind Kristoff - except for the bike throw. The vids aren't good enough - and when throwing your bike, the body technically moves backward - so its hard to tell - except the photo finish is the bottom line.
Oh, he definitely won it on the bike throw.
That's a cycling skill too, and he executed a perfect one - that won him another rainbow jersey.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 25, 2017, 21:26
I tried to write something worth reading here before going to sleep last night, and ended up falling asleep while typing the second sentence....I don't really like the  english  words "fan" or "supporter"  , it says nothing about the emotions involved.  The only language I know that decribes this in a way that makes it understandable, is portuguese. A real fan in portuguese is called a torcedor and the collection of fans are called the torcida. This is related with the verb torcer (to turn) and there you have it: it describes those who are so deeply into the results of their team or athlete that they can't stand watching (thus turns away) when the most exciting things are ongoing, like a penalty kick in football or a really really close sprint in cycling. When you suffer with them in defeat and really don't want to be involved in that once again.

 :D I am still emotionally exhausted! Damn you Aleksander Kristoff and Peter Sagan!  :angry

For the record I couldn't have had a better day out there watching racing....except yes, I had it the day before. So it was my second best day out there watching racing, and it was 20 centimeters short of being god damn perfect. Aleksander needs to get a velodrome in Stavanger so he can hang out there practicing bike throws every evening all winter long This was the second time he loses a race to Peter Sagan's bike throw skills, it also happened in the Bern stage of TdF 2016.

I saw a hundred things you didn't get to see on TV which made this a great race but then also missed a lot of stuff you saw on TV that perhaps gave you a better overview. For some reason I best remember August Jensen and Kristoffer Skjerping, both on duty for *no from the start, riding up Salmon hill one more time after being dropped, giving high fives to everyone at the roadside.

Then again, the men's race lacked a bit the defining moment we saw in the women's race, on the last two laps up Salmon hill. The girls digging in as deep as they knew they could and then some was impressive, and my impression was that there were quite a few men that exploded or gave up easier on Sunday. The shorter women's course could be an explanation for this

I think Mark Cavendish agrees with me...

https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/912001140459556865

Now, time to clean up the mess left behind, the economy of the event is reportedly not good and norwegian cycling can suffer for years from this. Part explanations:

There may be a way out of this, but we will see what happens.

 
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 25, 2017, 21:41
Oh, yes, one more thing:
I am glad you liked it! I mean the whole week. As host city citizen, I am happy if you liked it.

I hope Echoes can forgive Sagan winning. Next time, we'll take more care in inventing booby like sending him into the wrong tunnel or something. We have tried this last year and it can work, if we do it on the last lap.[1]
 1. If you looked closely you would notice that the ordinary blue Shimano sponsor's banner was replaced by one saying "turn right this time!" where the peloton got it wrong in last year's Tour des Fjords. That should do it  :S
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 26, 2017, 01:42
. . .

For the record I couldn't have had a better day out there watching racing....except yes, I had it the day before. So it was my second best day out there watching racing, and it was 20 centimeters short of being god damn perfect. Aleksander needs to get a velodrome in Stavanger so he can hang out there practicing bike throws every evening all winter long This was the second time he loses a race to Peter Sagan's bike throw skills, it also happened in the Bern stage of TdF 2016.

I saw a hundred things you didn't get to see on TV which made this a great race but then also missed a lot of stuff you saw on TV that perhaps gave you a better overview. For some reason I best remember August Jensen and Kristoffer Skjerping, both on duty for *no from the start, riding up Salmon hill one more time after being dropped, giving high fives to everyone at the roadside.

 . . .
:)  There are only so many times you can :lol. You had me laughing so hard it brought tears to my eyes!

But tell us if Bergen has a donation site - I'll give $10 to help out. It was worth more, but I can't afford more! GREAT Worlds.

BTW, another word about showing off - Echoes' dad was/is right, I think, in many circumstances, on this issue. It is certainly an insult to those around you when you are only part of a local or small crowd. But once it becomes a spectacle, like a stage, then things change somewhat. When done properly, it is no longer an insult to the other participants. It becomes part of the theatre of an event. And one has to live up to the "show-off" standards one puts on. Someone who is a bottom rung player or rider - well - if they show off - everybody would just laugh at them. We could get into a deep discussion about this, as fame, at its worst, is destructive to the person who has it. But handled well, it is good for the watchers and the performers.

Perhaps ironically, while Echoes thinks Sagan acts in a childish way, I think quite the opposite. He is so determined to have fun, and to be human, in spite of his fame, that he has achieved Sagan Zen. A lot of people in the world wish for that sort of self-composure. But, I will say, having money helps a lot when it comes to having self-composure!

Speaking of self-composure, how about that Tiesj Benoot? It took me a while to figure out what all his fuss was about. I finally think it was the jacket - somebody flapping a jacket over the barriers (again!? Have we seen this somewhere before?). The jacket caught him, or he caught the jacket, and boom, on the deck and the rest is history. Not to mention a small storm of temper on the way!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Servais Knavendish on September 26, 2017, 11:21

somebody flapping a jacket over the barriers (again!? Have we seen this somewhere before?).



... yeah and we know who the victim was in that instance!!!   :shh
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Caruut on September 26, 2017, 12:17
I didn't manage to catch the finale live - had to dash out. Spent the rest of my day avoiding the news, only to have Eurosport spoil me with a video title. I sent off a strongly-worded email threatening to cancel my sub, just like a well-balanced adult should. Even still, the race was enjoyable to watch.

I find it hard to warm to Sagan. I used to be something of a fan when he was younger, but then the butt-pinch and his general attitude turned me off somewhat. Still, to say the attention is because of his wheelies is a little churlish. Right now we're talking about him because he's won a third consecutive World title.

A very interesting discussion on personality, theatre and showing off. One thing I would add is that riders of the past... were riders of the past. They didn't wear helmets, or identical sunglasses, and they had much more control over their own tactics. To have a sense of yourself come through from the racing is harder now, I think. Riders have social media, true, but I think connecting to the human off the bike and connecting to the rider on the bike are two subtly different things. So, maybe he celebrates differently to Hinault, but he lives in a totally different world. I find it hard to warm to him and hard to judge him.

(On a side note, are we sure Hinault didn't just keep his hands on his bars because they were literally frozen there?)
(http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/hinault-lbl-620x409.jpg)

Sagan as a rider is something else. This win marks the first time that his palmares really shows off his talents, I think. Until now, and particularly in his younger years he struggled so much to turn that talent into big wins, and I think couldn't accept being tactically beaten. He was the rider everyone watched, but in terms of winning the big classics it was just that solitary Ronde from 2016 out of... what 15 real tilts at the majors. He has really made this race his own though. Congrats to him, I look forward to cheering others on against him for a while to come!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 26, 2017, 13:07
I didn't manage to catch the finale live
Don't beat yourself up over it - neither did anyone else! :lol
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 26, 2017, 20:38
(On a side note, are we sure Hinault didn't just keep his hands on his bars because they were literally frozen there?)

Partly true yes.

From Vélo Magazine #414 (November 2004), celebrating his 50th birthday:

Quote
On the finish line, I did not raise the arms. Why should I have raised them? To show that I won? Everybody knew it... Also I was completely numb. Had I raised the arms, I would have broken my face.

I remembered that article but only the first part of that bit. Anyway, riders back then who celebrate by just raising the arms, often even by just raising one of them, sometimes even not celebrating at all. Of course punching a demonstrator does not make Hinault a showoff. A brutal man if you want to but not a showoff. Of course I was aware of it, I've just translated part of Madiot's book referring to it. I know what I was saying when I said past riders had their flaws but were not showoffs. Perhaps Tom Simpson might be an exception but not sure he can compare to Sagan. The latter really reached the bottom but keeps digging.

Of course it was past and as per the codes of the time showoffness was highly regarded (rightly so). Yes there were no mandatory helmet (but in Belgium but okay these were good old sausage helmets and the riders were recogniseable, yet I'm not in favour of liberalising mandatory helmet). Sagan is the symptom of a society that is going more and more self-centered, more individualistic. We can no longer create things together, we only care for our own little persona, our own little pleasure, our own little image. We all want to have our own share of fame. Bragging has become something positive. Discretion used to be a quality but is now a big flaw (too bad for shy boys like me). We no longer read books. We have Instagram, selfies, reality shows, etc. As a certain CN poster to told me:

"Let's face it, if [Sagan] wasn't an exceptionally talented bike rider, he'd be running out of MTV reality shows to compete on before his 15 minutes of fame ran out."

And yet showing off should be a way to curse a self-destroying fame? Fame is self-destroying, so more fame is needed? Vicious circle? What is he going to become when he retires? MTV reality shows?

Wheelies are not everything but I'm really sad when I see a genuinely good man like Mathieu Van der Poel feeling forced to wheelie every now and then, fortunately it remains every now and then. I still believe that Mathieu is still a good man and was already more mature at age 20 then Sagan today. But well now as per the codes of today, wheelying is seen as something positive, so he does it. Roadside spectators are having a laugh? I've been roadside spectators on many occasion and even though I never saw any rider doing it live, I can say for sure that spectators do not need that to have a good time, the race alone is already enough to make them cheer. However hopefully there are still a lot of people who do believe that such move represents selfishness. I remember it very well when at age 20 I frequented an online cycling forum for the first time. I was young and rather enjoyed it when on the odd occasion Robbie McEwen wheelied but older people found it ridiculous. Now that I have the age that those guys had back then I agree with them but society changed their minds too in reverse direction. Or is it that I'm now on an English speaking forum? Well Sagan is an untouchable icon on Velo-club.net as well and all his antics have always made one-braincellers laughed over there as well.

Does Greg Van Avermaet need to show off to find self-control while famous? He got the most exhilarating victory a cycling rider can ever get at Rio and look how low-profile and discrete he remained? Only biting the medal "because everybody does it" (he said). Self-control comes naturally for him. Yet he's been young too and did silly things in the past (some know what I'm referring to) but once in a while acting like a clown does no harm. If you are a clown at every race, in front of dozens of cameras, that means that you are doing your best to maintain your media image out of narcissism, not that you are a joker. It's funny to see that just because I claim he's a showoff then I'd be some sort of a prude puritan who can never tolerate anybody having a "good time". Sorry folks, I can have fun. Sagan however never could make me laugh. My humor is probably different but my friends know I like laughing. There's a major difference between a showoff and a joker. Sagan is a showoff, not a joker. I see showoffs everyday now at the company I'm working for and they really get on anyone's nerves. Others have a great sense of humor and are really enjoyable. There's a clear distinction between the two.

I know from reliable sources that Greg Van Avermaet and Sep Vanmarcke are real jokers. Of course you don't know that because they don't need a TV camera to show it. They don't care about their own media image, they joke privately.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 26, 2017, 20:52
Sagan is the symptom of a society that is going more and more self-centered, more individualistic. We can no longer create things together, we only care for our own little persona, our own little pleasure, our own little image. We all want to have our own share of fame. Bragging has become something positive.
Sagan, the guy who in his post-Worlds win interviews talked about the refugee crisis (2015; and was nervous like hell about that) and Michele Scarponi (2017), is self-centered and individualistic?
If you say so.

It's fine to not like Sagan (or anyone else) - I didn't like Sagan.
But you're turning a blind eye to his having matured over the last few years.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 26, 2017, 21:06
Yes he (or PR's behind him) knows how to maintain his own media image and popularity. That fake speech at Richmond, was - I thought - an all-time low but I don't think we've seen the end yet. It reminds me of Virenque dedicating a polka dot jersey to the victims of the Rwandan Genocide without even knowing what had happened.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 26, 2017, 21:28
Yes he (or PR's behind him) knows how to maintain his own media image and popularity.
Is there something he could do that could win you over?
Or have you made up your mind on him and won't be swayed by anything?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 26, 2017, 21:40
....
But tell us if Bergen has a donation site - I'll give $10 to help out. It was worth more, but I can't afford more! GREAT Worlds.

Careful what you wish for, you might have started something there, Hiero!

Quote from:  Bergen2017 (on facebook)
Vi har fått mange henvendelser om folk som ønsker å bidra, og det synes vi er veldig hyggelig! Vår Vipps konto er #122843 Bergen 2017
Kontonummer: 15035624381

There has been a spontaneous response after the news on the bad economy broke, and people started donating. However, so far I haven't seen any way to make a donation from outside Norway (these systems are national). The donation drive started this morning and reportedly (latest update I could find) it just passed 1.8 million norwegian kroner (NOK). It may not cover all the expenses but I am sure it will help. now if they only could open for Hiero too... :)

For those that can read Norwegian, this is pretty unprecedented:
Report on the spontaneous donations in local newspaper BT (https://www.bt.no/100Sport/sykkel/Innsamlingen-tar-av-Vanlige-folk-har-gitt-nesten-to-millioner-kroner-til-VM-i-Bergen-242859b.html)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 26, 2017, 21:58
There has been a spontaneous response after the news on the bad economy broke, and people started donating. However, so far I haven't seen any way to make a donation from outside Norway (these systems are national). The donation drive started this morning and reportedly (latest update I could find) it just passed 1.8 million norwegian kroner (NOK). It may not cover all the expenses but I am sure it will help. now if they only could open for Hiero too... :)
Surely if they have a bank account number, they have an IBAN & BIC as well?
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 27, 2017, 04:05
Ran into this youtube vid tonight - the last 4 km vid with Sagan picked out in detail. Lovely! I was thinking we needed to see something like this - I could not figure out who the players were, for the most part. And I couldn't even find Sagan most of the time in that vid. This guy adds a pointer to Sagan through the action - and I have to realize Sagan was moving a lot in the final 4 km. He didn't just hide until the very end - he was in the action. Still he was surfing wheels - but at least it was not just one wheel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2rw1G95u8
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 27, 2017, 08:35
Ran into this youtube vid tonight - the last 4 km vid with Sagan picked out in detail. Lovely!
I love 'replays' like this. After a sprint finish, I could watch them for hours, analysing what each rider did right and wrong.
In this run-in, Sagan did a lot of things right: Follow & chase by others, but not make moves himself; not chase down every move; getting into the wheel of Kristoff[1] with 500 m to go; doing the classic "out of his slipstream" sprint.
:cool
 1. someone who becomes better and better the longer a race is
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 27, 2017, 08:39
In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on September 27, 2017, 09:04
In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.
What would you want him to have done, then? Put all the power he had left into one big move with 3 km to go, because "it looks better"?
And what are the >20 guys in that group that didn't attack either?

Attacking all-out may look glorious, but it's not always the smartest thing to do. Sagan raced smart, maximising his chances of success. If he always waited for the sprint, that would be one thing - but there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left (Gent-Wevelgem 2013, Richmond Worlds 2015).
Is that "flaunting his strength" and "showing off", or what?

More and more I have the feeling that Sagan can do no right in your eyes.
And that's fine, you're more than entitled to that opinion.
But it's enormously tiring to hear a dozen versions of it every time Sagan shows up in a bike race.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 27, 2017, 10:02
For his fans, it's just the other way round. When he attacks, it's panache so it's great. When he wins in a sprint, it's great because he's smart. When Cavendish or Kittel wins in sprint, it's never smart. When Van Avermaet wins after a long breakaway like in Rio, it's never panache because he's the hated rival.

My opinion has changed on many riders who've matured up: Niels Albert, Laurent Jalabert (though changed back due to dark side). My posting history on CN might show I was critical of Albert in his early days and enthusiastic in his later years. Sagan has NOT matured up. It's wild to think otherwise. He now bodychecks riders to the ditches, which he didn't do before. Like Caruut I also was some sort of an admirer before and no longer now. My posting history has also left traces of that. Even perhaps here.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on September 27, 2017, 11:10
...

Attacking all-out may look glorious, but it's not always the smartest thing to do. Sagan raced smart, maximising his chances of success. If he always waited for the sprint, that would be one thing - but there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left (Gent-Wevelgem 2013, Richmond Worlds 2015).
Is that "flaunting his strength" and "showing off", or what?...

Absolutely, he showed that in the clip above where he was prepared to close down moves or get into them to see where they went. This is not what I call wheel sucking, it's highly intelligent, heat of the moment, tactical riding. He didn't just wait for the race to come his way, he made it come his way.

And I'm not his biggest fan, I still hold him responsible for deliberately forcing Cavendish into the barriers and out of the TdF but credit where it's due, he rode this perfectly.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 27, 2017, 11:17
Jesus, on that clip, you can clearly see that once he was in the lead of the peloton he let the other take the turn in an instant. he did nothing to chase down Alaphilippe (the true winner for me).

Greg Van Avermaet said that the only time of the day he got passed by Sagan is with 4km to go. Philippe Gilbert said it was with 2.5km to go. He hadn't seen him for the whole day (source: Le Soir last Monday).
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: t-72 on September 27, 2017, 21:45
But it's enormously tiring to hear a dozen versions of it every time Sagan shows up in a bike race.

I kind of find it balances my view that Froome gets all the hate on online cycling forums. I appreciate other winners getting their share too. Strange kind of justice, but justice anyway.

Sagan said something in an interview afterwards which you maybe did not hear (it might have been for Norwegian ears only on TV2 but I am not 100% sure). The reporter said Sagan had stayed hidden for a long time. Sagan filled in "oh yes, I can do that only one time all year and that is this race, the worlds, where I race without the rainbow jersey." I tend to agree, I had a hard time picking him out from the peloton ...yea, he should have been in there somewhere but... I think he played his low profile card excellently, staying out of everybodys attention by not competing in the TTT and not training in Bergen before the race before hiding somewhere in the peloton for 250 km.

He is usually blamed for having poor tactics and too much strength for his own good. This time he won by having tactics and superior skills in bike-throwing. To continue the comparison with Froome, both keep winning although it can be questioned if their advantage in terms of physical ability is a little reduced compared to previous years, because they are adding new skills to their repertoire.

One more comment on the tactics, this year the spring tactics was dominated by long and ultra-long range attacks that made the race, with Philippe Gilbert's Ronde van Vlaanderen win as the climax. This trend evolved because teams without the strongest sprinters had to do something before the finish or Sagan, Kristoff and Degenkolb would take the race in the finish. What happened here Sunday: they did not make the race hard enough early enough to put Gilbert/van Avermaet in the advantage. Or the strong finishers were just to determined to hang on. Norwegian coaches said heart rate measurements indicated the world championship road race was actually raced harder than the spring classics this year.
One thing though, the race was won in a sprint but with the intense attacks on the final kilometres it wasn't raced like a sprint stage, more like the P-R with civilized cobbles only.
 
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on September 28, 2017, 02:07
Lovin' this conversation!

I love 'replays' like this. After a sprint finish, I could watch them for hours, analysing what each rider did right and wrong.
 . . .

There is MORE!!!!  :D   Go to VN Show 61 (http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/video/vn-show-sagan-makes-three-dutch-domination-contador-sings_449266), starting about 3:18 in, they discuss Sagan, the Worlds, and Gaviria. They do the same pointer treatment for Gaviria, pointing out how much work he did to keep the breaks in control. In the VN podcast (http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/podcast/vn-podcast-ep-52-worlds-banned-beards-and-froome-vs-dumoulin_449181) on the same topic, one of them points out, I think correctly, that if Gaviria had not worked to keep things together, there would not have BEEN a Kristoff / Sagan showdown. His conclusion - Sagan owes Gaviria a few beers!

In other words, an experienced wheelsucker.

You remind me of the race where Gerrans wheelsucked Cancellara for a couple of km to take the win. Gerrans never stuck his nose into the wind, not once, and I still have not forgiven him. But he won. And I'm probably the only person in the whole world who thinks he stole that race from Cancellara!  :lol Ah, well, that's life in the cycle lane!

. . . there are numerous examples of him going solo even when he's arguably the best sprinter left  . . .
. . .Sagan said something in an interview afterwards which you maybe did not hear (it might have been for Norwegian ears only on TV2 but I am not 100% sure). The reporter said Sagan had stayed hidden for a long time. Sagan filled in "oh yes, I can do that only one time all year and that is this race, the worlds, where I race without the rainbow jersey." . . .
Oh, yeah. Yes. In Sagan's first year - he won a bunch of stuff - because everybody kept seeming to forget he was there! Since then, he gets marked, whatever he does, whatever he tries, there is somebody there to make sure it doesn't work. He is MARKED, in all caps. We have not seen another rider win in so many different ways in a long time.

Absolutely, he showed that in the clip above where he was prepared to close down moves or get into them to see where they went. This is not what I call wheel sucking, it's highly intelligent, heat of the moment, tactical riding. He didn't just wait for the race to come his way, he made it come his way.

And I'm not his biggest fan, I still hold him responsible for deliberately forcing Cavendish into the barriers and out of the TdF but credit where it's due, he rode this perfectly.
I also hold him responsible for that, but it seems even Cav has forgiven him. Since he isn't (normally) trying to do such shenanigans, and because Cav hasn't held him responsible, I can give him a slide on this one. A cautious slide, but still . . .

I kind of find it balances my view that Froome gets all the hate on online cycling forums. I appreciate other winners getting their share too. Strange kind of justice, but justice anyway.
 . . .

:lol   Yeah.

For his fans, it's just the other way round. When he attacks, it's panache so it's great. When he wins in a sprint, it's great because he's smart. When Cavendish or Kittel wins in sprint, it's never smart. When Van Avermaet wins after a long breakaway like in Rio, it's never panache because he's the hated rival. . . .
Now hold on just a danged second - you hold your horses now! I love it when Cav wins, and I cheer him! I love it when Kittel or Kristoff win, except if they are against Cav and Cav is there! I cheer them all and give them full credit when they don't break something trying to get there!  And AG is partial to PhilGil, but I've got nothing against GVA - so you just tamp that down, because you are unfairly generalizing!

Dude, you are digging deep, trying to find arguments to convince yourself and others that Sagan is bad. I don't like Gerrans, or Froome, but I have to recognize that this is based on my feelings - not rational arguments and reason. You don't like Sagan? No problem - that's your right. Don't bother trying to rationalize it, you'll give yourself an ulcer!   :o And that's no good!


Back to general stuff on Sagan. Somebody mentioned the butt-pinch as a "loss-of-respect" moment. Initially, it was, I think. But I also think this demonstrates how he has grown more mature as time passes. The butt-pinch was not a Trump / Schwarzenegger grope, nor was it an Anthony Weiner personal porn moment. It was an attempt at humor and entertainment, although in poor taste, with bad timing, and somewhat insulting. Just like the "showing-off" that echoes hates so much. But he has never repeated this behavior - as each of the examples I have given HAVE done. He has certainly been appropriately apologetic over the incident, rather than self-righteous, and he has passed the TRUE test of apologizing, i.e. actually changing one's behavior. He was a bit stupid to do it in the first place, but AFAIC, he has clearly demonstrated that he learned the error of his ways!

30 years ago, watching the canned coverage of the TdF (highlights only), and following newsprint reports in the VeloNews of that day, I did not think we would ever get to analyze, and enjoy, races at the level of detail we have, here, today. It is lovely. As t-72 noted, we, the video audience, get to view details that he did not, sitting on the course. Of course - he got stuff we didn't, but hey, nothing is perfect!
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on September 28, 2017, 08:52
Gerrans did take turns with Cancellara and did not steal that victory. Sagan stole many wins, just like Kittel or Cavendish, though a bit less of them.

And of course my admiration for some rider and my disgust for others are always rational or at least explainable. If I had reasons to like that guy, I would have liked him like I did in his first years when based on your feelings, you did not.
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: hiero on October 05, 2017, 02:18
Just ran across this:
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/WK/1.3073205#

Sporza has done a more detailed analysis of the last 4 km - who was where - with arrows.

I can't get the vid - I think it is country restricted - but maybe you can - and one can always get a proxy if the desire is great enough!  :)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on October 05, 2017, 07:57
Sporza has done a more detailed analysis of the last 4 km - who was where - with arrows.

I can't get the vid - I think it is country restricted - but maybe you can - and one can always get a proxy if the desire is great enough!  :)
Helemaal bedankt!!

I can confirm that the video is geo-restricted ... and that my desire to watch it was great enough. ;)
Title: Re: World Championships 2017
Post by: Echoes on October 05, 2017, 08:50
Not too interesting from what I saw but for the confirmation that Sagan hardly did anything (but for fans it becomes a lot of course because everything he does gets agrandised). Just the same footage with identification and even there a 30" gap without identification when it's impossible to. I don't know if there's sound either (I've muted because at work right now) but I don't think there is.
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