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Professional Cycling => Tour de France 2018 => Topic started by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 08:29

Title: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 08:29
(http://www.velowire.com/images/blog/storyimages/999.jpg)

This is the thread for all the latest news on the 2018 Tour de France.

Stage 1, July 7: Noirmoutier-en-l’Ile – Fontenay-le-Comte, 189km
Stage 2, July 8: Mouilleron-Saint-Germain – La Roche-sur-Yon, 183km
Stage 3, July 9: Cholet – Cholet (TTT), 35km
Stage 4, July 10: La Baule – Sarzeau, 192km
Stage 5, July 11: Lorient – Quimper, 203km
Stage 6, July 12: Brest – Mûr de Bretagne Guerlédan, 181km
Stage 7, July 13: Fougères – Chartres, 231km
Stage 8, July 14: Dreux – Amiens Métropole, 181km
Stage 9, July 15: Arras Citadelle – Roubaix, 154km

Rest day

Stage 10, July 17: Annecy – Le Grand Bornand, 159km
Stage 11, July 18: Albertville – La Rosière, 108km
Stage 12, July 19: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs – Alpe d’Huez, 175km
Stage 13, July 20: Bourg d’Oisans – Valence, 169km
Stage 14, July 21: Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux – Mende, 187km
Stage 15, July 22: Millau – Carcassonne, 181km

Rest day

Stage 16, July 24: Carcassonne – Bagnères-de-Luchon, 218km
Stage 17, July 25: Bagnères-de-Luchon – Saint-Lary-Soulan (Col de Portet), 65km
Stage 18, July 26: Trie-sur-Baïse – Pau, 172km
Stage 19, July 27: Lourdes – Laruns, 200km
Stage 20, July 28: Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle – Espelette (ITT), 31km
Stage 21, July 29: Houilles – Paris Champs Elysées, 115km

----------

https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/830808051871522816

No stage details were revealed, but according to a second report in Le Telegramme newspaper, the Grand Depart will be centred around the Puy du Fou historical theme park, with three days of racing in the Vendee before heading north to Brittany.

Le Telegramme suggests the Tour de France could visit Sarzeau, on the Rhuys peninsula in Brittany after the stages in the Vendee. The local newspaper also claims that Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme asked local officials from the Plouhinec area of Brittany to suggest a tough finale for a stage that includes dirt road sections in the final 30km.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 08:31
(http://www.velowire.com/images/blog/storyimages/999.jpg)

Velowire will have more details soon  :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Armchair Cyclist on February 13, 2017, 10:19
My brother's long term ambition has been to ride Alpe d'Huez on his 60th birthday, and I would hope to join him.  The auspicious day is 15th July 2018: the Sunday of Bastille Day weekend.   

Any idea how soon we might know whether the Alps will be Tour-free that weekend?  (I suspect he will have to change his plans)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on February 13, 2017, 10:55
If the start is actually at le Puy du Fou does that suggest that the race will begin with a TT like it did on the 2 previous times that it started there?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 12:07
My brother's long term ambition has been to ride Alpe d'Huez on his 60th birthday, and I would hope to join him.  The auspicious day is 15th July 2018: the Sunday of Bastille Day weekend.   

Any idea how soon we might know whether the Alps will be Tour-free that weekend?  (I suspect he will have to change his plans)

ask Tomas AC he will probably have some idea
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 12:08
If the start is actually at le Puy du Fou does that suggest that the race will begin with a TT like it did on the 2 previous times that it started there?

you would think so
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Armchair Cyclist on February 13, 2017, 12:10
ask Tomas AC he will probably have some idea

Tomas?  Voeckler? Geraint? or another Thomas?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 13, 2017, 12:12
Tomas?  Voeckler? Geraint? or another Thomas?

Velowire sorry I thought that was obvious

http://www.velowire.com/home.php?l=en

https://twitter.com/velowire_com
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 11:15
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5v2z0RWcAIXedF.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5v3NbxWUAA1ntH.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5v3gxVXMAEi6k9.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 12:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjI0pcGq7G0
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 13:49
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5wZvrdWQAAbhP5.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on February 28, 2017, 18:30
#direct will be happy to have their Tour ticket secured 17 months in advance. :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on February 28, 2017, 20:14
Is stage 3 an ITT or a TTT?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: killswitch on February 28, 2017, 20:45
Is stage 3 an ITT or a TTT?
A TTT.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-2018-to-start-on-passage-du-gois/

Quote
...followed by a 35km team time trial around Cholet on stage 3
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on February 28, 2017, 20:47
Is stage 3 an ITT or a TTT?
It's a TTT.

They've also announced the start of stage 4:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vVVezXMAA4JsV.jpg)
I believe they'll go west towards Britanny; if going east, there'd be no reason to turn north after Nozay, you could just continue on the D771 instead.
And there have been rumours about ribinou ... :shh
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: just some guy on March 01, 2017, 07:21
It's a TTT.

They've also announced the start of stage 4:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vVVezXMAA4JsV.jpg)
I believe they'll go west towards Britanny; if going east, there'd be no reason to turn north after Nozay, you could just continue on the D771 instead.
And there have been rumours about ribinou ... :shh

There are facts about it, just need the route confirmed  :cool
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on October 17, 2017, 19:51
https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/920231124839878657

Stage 1, July 7: Noirmoutier-en-l’Ile – Fontenay-le-Comte, 189km
Stage 2, July 8: Mouilleron-Saint-Germain – La Roche-sur-Yon, 183km
Stage 3, July 9: Cholet – Cholet (TTT), 35km
Stage 4, July 10: La Baule – Sarzeau, 192km
Stage 5, July 11: Lorient – Quimper, 203km
Stage 6, July 12: Brest – Mûr de Bretagne Guerlédan, 181km
Stage 7, July 13: Fougères – Chartres, 231km
Stage 8, July 14: Dreux – Amiens Métropole, 181km
Stage 9, July 15: Arras Citadelle – Roubaix, 154km

Rest day

Stage 10, July 17: Annecy – Le Grand Bornand, 159km
Stage 11, July 18: Albertville – La Rosière, 108km
Stage 12, July 19: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs – Alpe d’Huez, 175km
Stage 13, July 20: Bourg d’Oisans – Valence, 169km
Stage 14, July 21: Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux – Mende, 187km
Stage 15, July 22: Millau – Carcassonne, 181km

Rest day

Stage 16, July 24: Carcassonne – Bagnères-de-Luchon, 218km
Stage 17, July 25: Bagnères-de-Luchon – Saint-Lary-Soulan (Col de Portet), 65km
Stage 18, July 26: Trie-sur-Baïse – Pau, 172km
Stage 19, July 27: Lourdes – Laruns, 200km
Stage 20, July 28: Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle – Espelette (ITT), 31km
Stage 21, July 29: Houilles – Paris Champs Elysées, 115km

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMV5YOXXkAA4uFF.jpg)

Are bad fitting suits a thing now?

However Calmejane and Pinot are looking smooth. Yates (ironically enough) will be over with the wine menu soon.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Joelsim on October 17, 2017, 21:38
I like the look of this, especially stage 17.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: t-72 on October 17, 2017, 22:23
The short stage is preceeded by a long stage with some mountains, looks like the recipe from last year's Vuelta, with extra spice.  :cool

The first week though, I hope for wind and rain  :shh

Second week looks nice too, if for no other reason than the Aravis.  :D Etape du Tour will be same area as last year!
EDIT: and once again, they spend a day going more or less nowhere, from Annecy to Grand Bornand isn't a long distance if you pick the right way  :D
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: search on October 17, 2017, 22:45
The first week though, I hope for wind and rain  :shh

looks okish to me, with this one and Mur de Bretagne the day after

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMVT7yCX0AAISRF.jpg)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Joelsim on October 17, 2017, 23:11
https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/920231124839878657

Stage 1, July 7: Noirmoutier-en-l’Ile – Fontenay-le-Comte, 189km
Stage 2, July 8: Mouilleron-Saint-Germain – La Roche-sur-Yon, 183km
Stage 3, July 9: Cholet – Cholet (TTT), 35km
Stage 4, July 10: La Baule – Sarzeau, 192km
Stage 5, July 11: Lorient – Quimper, 203km
Stage 6, July 12: Brest – Mûr de Bretagne Guerlédan, 181km
Stage 7, July 13: Fougères – Chartres, 231km
Stage 8, July 14: Dreux – Amiens Métropole, 181km
Stage 9, July 15: Arras Citadelle – Roubaix, 154km

Rest day

Stage 10, July 17: Annecy – Le Grand Bornand, 159km
Stage 11, July 18: Albertville – La Rosière, 108km
Stage 12, July 19: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs – Alpe d’Huez, 175km
Stage 13, July 20: Bourg d’Oisans – Valence, 169km
Stage 14, July 21: Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux – Mende, 187km
Stage 15, July 22: Millau – Carcassonne, 181km

Rest day

Stage 16, July 24: Carcassonne – Bagnères-de-Luchon, 218km
Stage 17, July 25: Bagnères-de-Luchon – Saint-Lary-Soulan (Col de Portet), 65km
Stage 18, July 26: Trie-sur-Baïse – Pau, 172km
Stage 19, July 27: Lourdes – Laruns, 200km
Stage 20, July 28: Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle – Espelette (ITT), 31km
Stage 21, July 29: Houilles – Paris Champs Elysées, 115km

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMV5YOXXkAA4uFF.jpg)

Are bad fitting suits a thing now?

However Calmejane and Pinot are looking smooth. Yates (ironically enough) will be over with the wine menu soon.

Getting skinny trousers to look skinny on these guys must be a challenge. Tailored on a couple of long pipe-cleaners.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on October 18, 2017, 00:47
Getting skinny trousers to look skinny on these guys must be a challenge. Tailored on a couple of long pipe-cleaners.

Skinny trousers make such a VERY bad optic with a suit coat. Agh.  :barf
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on October 18, 2017, 17:14
looks okish to me, with this one and Mur de Bretagne the day after

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMVT7yCX0AAISRF.jpg)
There are ribinou in the Bretagne stages as well, aren't there?
Don't tell me they dropped those!? :-x
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on October 19, 2017, 17:00
There are ribinou in the Bretagne stages as well, aren't there?
Don't tell me they dropped those!? :-x

Ribinou? Holee crap! Tro Bro Leon 2015 onboard (https://youtu.be/S6zsLRXh9Ks)

Was it Merckx or Hinault who had no love for Paris-Roubaix and cobbles? Ribinou? I love it! IF they left some in! If its dry, not such a big deal - flats seem to be the biggest general worry then. In the wet, carnage. Uhoh, hmmm , maybe I should slow down on what I wish for.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on October 24, 2017, 17:32
Was it Merckx or Hinault who had no love for Paris-Roubaix and cobbles?
Hinault. Started Paris-Roubaix once, won it solo, said it was a circus, never returned.

Merckx, like any proper Belgian, LOVED cobbles, winning Ronde & P-R several times each.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on October 24, 2017, 20:41
Hinault. Started Paris-Roubaix once, won it solo, said it was a circus, never returned.

I thought this was one of the great urban myths/apocryphal tales of cycling and unless I'm missing some sarcasm I'm surprised to see you repeating it. He rode it more than once but won it once.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on October 24, 2017, 23:15
I thought this was one of the great urban myths/apocryphal tales of cycling and unless I'm missing some sarcasm I'm surprised to see you repeating it. He rode it more than once but won it once.
I've always only heard/read it reported as fact.
Since his P-R win came six years before my birth, I can hardly claim first-hand knowledge. ;)

It is a very good story - and I suppose it may be too good to be true.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on October 25, 2017, 15:23
https://twitter.com/OdvartJames/status/923139207673139200

Jungle Bob to be thrown to the lions at the TdF in 2018.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on November 19, 2017, 20:56
Stage 17. Awesome. Monster. Magnifique. Superlative.

And here's a short to get yer blood warmed up and all on tenterhooks in anticipation!

Col collective previews 2018 stage 17, col du Portet (http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/video-col-collective-previews-short-nasty-tdf-stage-17-portet_452300)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on November 21, 2017, 03:48
. . .
Jungle Bob to be thrown to the lions at the TdF in 2018.

And that is literally what they said they are going to do! So, now he is not Bob Jungels, he is Daniel Jungels - Jungle Dan, the lion-slayer. This could be a very interesting Tour coming up. It could be another very interesting year!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on January 08, 2018, 14:36
https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/950368362256887808
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Joelsim on January 08, 2018, 15:16
Cofidis going to Tour, CDD and PN.

Vital Convept to Dauphiné only.

Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: AG on January 09, 2018, 00:28
Coquard will not be a happy boy today ....


I do think that Wanty Groupe Gobert did enough last year to earn their spot, so I am quite happy with that actually.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on June 03, 2018, 07:33
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180603_03542593

Quote
With a distance of just 65 km, but three cols, one of the Pyrenean stages in the next Tour becomes a real spectacle. To give that short ride extra attention, the organization also takes a special start formula.

The riders will be drawn up as in Formula 1. At the center of the front is the leader in the classification, the yellow jersey. A few meters to his left is the number two, a few meters to the right of him the number three. And so the first ten in the ranking is drawn up on the first line.

Sprint or wait?

Immediately afterwards the numbers from ten to twenty start at the start. Those who are between the twentieth and the fortyth place in the standings will be placed in a following 'cage'. "Then we work in forty. It is a bit of a start like in Formula 1, or as in cyclo-cross

Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on June 03, 2018, 07:55
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180603_03542593
Is it some kind of Belgian April Fools Day today? :S

I would love to see this - I just don't see ASO doing it at their biggest event without having run a trial in a smaller race before.

EDIT: Ah, I see it's only about the start order.
I thought that the riders would start in groups of twenty with some minutes in between ...  but they still start at the same time.
In that case, this isn't really that much of a big deal, is it? The domestiques will simply be told to go all-out from the start to catch up with the leaders - and the gruppetto guys can simply stay behind.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: AG on June 03, 2018, 08:17
depending on how wide the roads are and the access, it could prove interesting.  Might be a way for a team or two to control things

This stage should be fun anyway
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Drummer Boy on June 03, 2018, 11:41
In that case, this isn't really that much of a big deal, is it?

If this is real, and if I'm interpreting it correctly,  I'd be willing to be that it amounts to nothing. Riders and teams will do what they usually do, which is follow orders and race the way they always race. They will quickly reshuffle and align themselves according to their specific agenda. If the stage were only 5 km it would one thing, but I don't understand what race organizers are hoping to achieve here.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on June 03, 2018, 18:24
If the stage were only 5 km it would one thing, but I don't understand what race organizers are hoping to achieve here.
Headlines.

Or if the stage is on a one-lane road and goes uphill from the get-go. But even then - who will attack 63 km from the finish with three mountains to go?!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 03, 2018, 19:09
Headlines.

Or if the stage is on a one-lane road and goes uphill from the get-go. But even then - who will attack 63 km from the finish with three mountains to go?!
Everybody.
Quote
"The first col is the Peyragudes, in line with the Peyresourde. '' Anyone who wants to sprint to the foot of that turtleneck can do so.
I think it should have been translated as "bottleneck", but whatever. I think the idea gets across. You can pick up significant time on tactics on this day. Maybe. Or lose the whole thing to a crash.

On another topic, I see Sky and Froome have chosen a special avatar for this Tour: an Orca. Bigger and badder-ass than any shark, especially as they work in teams. Powerful symbolism.

Who's the last GC star to win 4 GT's in a row?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on June 03, 2018, 21:10
Who's the last GC star to win 4 GT's in a row?
Eddy Merckx:
1972 Giro (21 May to 11 June), 1972 Tour (1 to 22 July), 1973 Vuelta (26 April to 13 May), 1973 Giro (18 May to 9 June).

In between those four GTs in a row, he also won:
Giro del Piemonte (9 September 1972) Giro dell'Emilia (4 October 1972), Giro di Lombardia (7 October 1972), Trofeo Baracchi (11 October 1972, pair time trial with Roger Swerts), Giro di Sardegna (24 February to 1 March 1973), Omloop Het Volk (3 March 1973), Gent-Wevelgem (3 April 1973), Amstel Gold Race (7 April 1973), Paris-Roubaix (15 April 1973), and Liège-Bastogne-Liège (22 April 1973).

Oh, and he broke the Hour Record on 25 October 1972.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 04, 2018, 00:13
Eddy Merckx:
1972 Giro (21 May to 11 June), 1972 Tour (1 to 22 July), 1973 Vuelta (26 April to 13 May), 1973 Giro (18 May to 9 June).

In between those four GTs in a row, he also won:
Giro del Piemonte (9 September 1972) Giro dell'Emilia (4 October 1972), Giro di Lombardia (7 October 1972), Trofeo Baracchi (11 October 1972, pair time trial with Roger Swerts), Giro di Sardegna (24 February to 1 March 1973), Omloop Het Volk (3 March 1973), Gent-Wevelgem (3 April 1973), Amstel Gold Race (7 April 1973), Paris-Roubaix (15 April 1973), and Liège-Bastogne-Liège (22 April 1973).

Oh, and he broke the Hour Record on 25 October 1972.

Wow. That Giro-Tour, then the Vuelta-Giro! Talk about back to back!

Well, I don't think Il Lombardia, nor the spring classics have to worry! I'm hoping Froome's Tour streak gets broken this year, but I don't have a lot of confidence. Still, we've been surprised before.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 04, 2018, 00:18
Is it some kind of Belgian April Fools Day today? :S

I would love to see this - I just don't see ASO doing it at their biggest event without having run a trial in a smaller race before.

EDIT: Ah, I see it's only about the start order.
I thought that the riders would start in groups of twenty with some minutes in between ...  but they still start at the same time.
In that case, this isn't really that much of a big deal, is it? The domestiques will simply be told to go all-out from the start to catch up with the leaders - and the gruppetto guys can simply stay behind.

The thought occurs to me - the team with the highest overall ranking on this stage could have a significant advantage in the first km.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on June 04, 2018, 09:17
The thought occurs to me - the team with the highest overall ranking on this stage could have a significant advantage in the first km.
Isn't that a lot like saying that the Kenyans & Ethiopians lining up at the front have a significant advantage in the first 500 metres of a marathon race?
It hardly matters.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 04, 2018, 20:05
Isn't that a lot like saying that the Kenyans & Ethiopians lining up at the front have a significant advantage in the first 500 metres of a marathon race?
It hardly matters.

Weeeelllll, maybe not! A mere 68km in the stage. Hardly a marathon for these guys, eh? More like a half-marathon.
 What's that you say? Still should be plenty of time to level out pack position? Hmmm, maybe. I haven't seen a route map yet. How far along is that first climb, and the bottleneck at the foot?

Positioning on the first climb could be crucial. After all, the legs will arrive at that first selection much fresher, and with fewer km to go in front of them. I think EVERYBODY (or so close to everybody it won't make a difference) will be aiming at hitting that bottleneck in the front. It will be a nervous peloton!

I'm not saying it WILL end up like a traffic jam - but it could!

Oh - I just realized - you probably think I meant "in the first kilometer" when what I intended was "in the first kilometers". If there IS going to be a sprint to the first bottleneck - having the team avoid the argy-bargy in the pack might be useful.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on June 07, 2018, 18:39
https://twitter.com/CiclismoInter/status/1004742369332416512

Read into that what you will. :P
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: t-72 on June 10, 2018, 22:19
Magnus Aarre is a norwegian cycling journalist working for TV2. He interviews racers in many languages, asks difficult questions, and in general: is a really sport good journalist! His take on the Dauphine results:


"When you realize Sky can field three teams for Tour de France that are better than the others."

https://twitter.com/magnusaarre/status/1005798963272912896
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 18, 2018, 16:25
Unzue is recognizing how much a part luck has played in the first week over the past several years. And, it seems to be part of why he's going with 3 "leaders".
http://www.velonews.com/2018/06/news/movistar-defends-decision-3-leaders-tour_469687
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: search on June 19, 2018, 08:00
https://twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/1008953782841982977
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on June 19, 2018, 11:53
So, who have we got (GC contenders) who has said they are doing the TDF?

Froome, Dumoulin, Porte, Quintana, Valverde, Landa, Uran . . .

Nibali?
Aru?
Yates?
Roglic??? (is he even a contender?)

Edit: Add
Bardet

Or better yet: startlists are starting to appear!
http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=9072.msg2241478#msg2241478 (http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=9072.msg2241478#msg2241478)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: search on July 01, 2018, 10:36
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/1013354849814089729
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on July 01, 2018, 11:50
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/1013354849814089729

My guess is that Froome will still start.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Echoes on July 01, 2018, 12:42
Hasn't Froome started any ASO races, this year? (I don't know the answer, honest question)
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 01, 2018, 12:52
Hasn't Froome started any ASO races, this year? (I don't know the answer, honest question)
That's a good question. He hasn't ridden anything since the Giro. I don't remember what he rode before the Giro.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on July 01, 2018, 12:58
Hasn't Froome started any ASO races, this year? (I don't know the answer, honest question)
He hasn't, now that you mention it:
Ruta del Sol, Tirreno-Adriatico, Tour of the Alps, Giro.

And that is unusual for him - in previous years, he has always done one or several ASO races before the Tour (Oman, LBL, Romandie, Dauphiné).
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Drummer Boy on July 01, 2018, 14:23
https://twitter.com/inrng/status/1013354849814089729
It seems that they should've made this decision a bit earlier instead of waiting until nearly the eve of the Tour itself.
Also, I always though it was: Their race; their rules. But I guess not.

If this battle becomes more contentious, and Sky and Froome prevail, it's going to be ugly out on the roads.

https://twitter.com/dnlbenson/status/1013382072629645312
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 01, 2018, 15:54
It seems that they should've made this decision a bit earlier instead of waiting until nearly the eve of the Tour itself.
Also, I always though it was: Their race; their rules. But I guess not.

If this battle becomes more contentious, and Sky and Froome prevail, it's going to be ugly out on the roads.

https://twitter.com/dnlbenson/status/1013382072629645312

Yes indeed. Could be. Cutting words from Benson, as well.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Francois the Postman on July 01, 2018, 23:54
There are times when I quite like ASO, all the more since it started to bang the drum for the importance of the layers below the elite circus, and this is another one of those times.

On Tuesday it might well be ruled that Froome's demand to start should be honoured, but it is insane that we are about to start the July 2018 edition and the outcome of the 2017 Vuelta hasn't been set in stone yet.

Mutterings that all this would be resolved before the world clocks in again on for the annual sunny slow rolling summer screensaver past French vinyards and chateaux, have really not taken into account the terror of the various lawyers to this particular legal dance, to be the one who puts that one single step wrong that will be the foundation for the mother of all marginal laysuits.

In the meantime, the actual best interst of our sport be damned.
 
No race organizer should have to put its entire franchise up for another potential race-falsifying farcical asterix edition, all the more at the back of a couple of decades that were pretty much yanked from history. That we let it happen to our showcase circus is lunacy.

No rider is bigger than a 100+ year old race. No rider, or team, is bigger than the best interests of the sport. Even if innocent.

That it happened to the Giro was bad enough, but we are about to put our global flagship out on parade again and it is inexcusable that we have no protocols in place to get issues like this resolved in a timely matter. As in an 'almost full circle again' timely manner.

I doubt invoking artcile 29 will be allowed to block Froome, but I sure as hell applaud them for trying, and it is a stern warning to the UCI to get their flipping act sorted and put rules in place that nix issues like these out of existence. To be honest, I think it is more a shot across the bow of the UCI than a shot at Sky or Froome in particular.

As for Froome and Sky, it is two enormous fingers up to the ASO, after being told you are not welcome, rightly or wrongly, to insist you will start regardless. Especially after all the smokey revelations coming out of Team Sky's camp during the last few years, it's clear it is not exactly the fresh-spirit cloudless outfit it professed to be. After walking the clean-walk, legal to the letter only just isn't good enough. And now Sky and Froome are putting themselves above the Tour de France. I am curious what the fall out of that one will be. On the roads, with the fans, and behind the scenes.

Probably time for the ASO to put removal of its races from the World Tour on a UCI Swiss dinner plate again, alongside the threat to put the TdF in whatever low-level UCI race category gives the organisation the greatest freedom to invite who the heck they want.

Whatever you think of the TdF, it is one heck of a bargaining chip.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Francois the Postman on July 02, 2018, 00:05
Hasn't Froome started any ASO races, this year? (I don't know the answer, honest question)

Great question Echoes. Thanks for the answer LukasCPH.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 02, 2018, 01:02
. . .

I doubt invoking artcile 29 will be allowed to block Froome, but I sure as hell applaud them for trying, and it is a stern warning to the UCI to get their flipping act sorted and put rules in place that nix issues like these out of existence. To be honest, I think it is more a shot across the bow of the UCI than a shot at Sky or Froome in particular.

As for Froome and Sky, it is two enormous fingers up to the ASO, after being told you are not welcome, rightly or wrongly, to insist you will start regardless. Especially after all the smokey revelations coming out of Team Sky's camp during the last few years, it's clear it is not exactly the fresh-spirit cloudless outfit it professed to be. After walking the clean-walk, legal to the letter only just isn't good enough. And now Sky and Froome are putting themselves above the Tour de France. I am curious what the fall out of that one will be. On the roads, with the fans, and behind the scenes.
 . . .

Quite so. It is lunacy that the UCI have let the "procedures" dangle as long as this. Frankly, I'm a bit amazed - twice now we have welcomed in the face of "change" to the UCI, and neither seems to be living quite up to their billing. Laparrtient should be more wary - he may be replaced by a UCI version of Trump. God forbid, and knock on wood. I won't speak more about that insanity, it upsets me too much.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Francois the Postman on July 02, 2018, 12:35
ASO threatened to kick up a storm and suddenly we have a verdict. It's like magic!

With Froome is cleared to start on Saturday it is time to get those rules sorted.

I much prefer a short process with riders losing their right to start.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: t-72 on July 02, 2018, 22:30
ASO threatened to kick up a storm and suddenly we have a verdict. It's like magic!

With Froome is cleared to start on Saturday it is time to get those rules sorted.

I much prefer a short process with riders losing their right to start.

Much prefer a shorter process too - but in the case of scientific doubt short processes can't fix it. In that case, resolving the case can obviously take months and that has been the case with more than this asthma-drug related finding (i guess I can call it finding if it is not adverse and analytical..)

What Sky/Froome cannot be blamed for in this case is that information about the test results was leaked by *someone* at a point in time where it is supposed to remain confidential, precisely because sometimes when the dust settles it turns out it is hard to be sure about the substances that are allowed in limited concentrations, and it is not an unlikely outcome that the athlete gets blamed for something that isn't considered sufficient evidence of a rule violation.

If the information about the sample and the analysis had been treated according to the rules, this discussion would not take place. That probably doesn't mean that no-one, nowhere would be accusing Chris Froome of doping.

For one day I was really looking forward to seeing Geraint Thomas charge the cobbles with no strings attached, get a huge time gap and set up all the climbers to try "Froomestre" attacks on every mountain stage, until someone suddenly forgets where Nibali is and he is way ahead on some unlikely flatland no one expected anything and the rest of the race to become pure chaos!  :shh

Turns out I was way too sleepy after a weekend with too many too long parties and it was just a dream.  :P

Anyway, now that we see the rules make sense after all, how about some journalists looking at who leaked the info and why?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Francois the Postman on July 03, 2018, 03:47
Much prefer a shorter process too - but in the case of scientific doubt short processes can't fix it. In that case, resolving the case can obviously take months and that has been the case with more than this asthma-drug related finding (i guess I can call it finding if it is not adverse and analytical..)

Has it been made public why Froome was cleared? It might have been given, but all I have read from the UCI and Sky is dripping in vagaries.

Has Froome delivered a controlled pharmacokinetic study that proved his test was the result of normal usage? As afaik that was the only acceptable way to violate the limit as it was written down.

If he hasn't, and the (reported) argumentation that the test itself is too flawed (and/or suggested kidney failure) trumped the discussion, then the decision to clear Froome, let him retain the Vuelta win and allow him to ride the TdF by extension, was a political one, not a scientific one.

Ignoring rules as written is always political, and in politics, all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others.

What we have learned is that ASO raised the stakes a good two weeks ago (and not this weekend as initially reported) with the explicit intention to force the UCI to make a decision before the TdF would have its grand depart. For bloody good reasons, if you ask me.

Which also suggests the process suddenly got political urgency, not a purely legal and scientific due-process one.

And you are not going to convince me that a ruling the day before we could trigger another potential clusterflip, the one in which the TdF-start-ruling would go against Froome, to be followed by a clearance of Froome before or during the actual TdF, is not all about poltics, rather than legalities and procedures.

That the rule for this will be up for a thorough rewrite at some point in the future is clear, whichever way this went. But the rules now are what they are, you cannot be cleared to ride by the rules that yet have to transpire.

I am curious what the argumentation was to clear Froome.


Related, I am quite happy that the awareness of the behind-the-scenes issue was put firmly in the public eye. I used to be a strong fan of the innocent until proven guilty dogma, and it seemed only natural and just that the process protected riders by not letting anyone know what was being investigated, for those who were later proven to be innocent.

To me, the riders themselves have frittered away any right of such protection, through a decade or two of rather effective institutional sport-wide substance abuse, all in collusion with an equally corrupt UCI who went through great lengths to hide what it knew from the public. Especially the deafening silence from the individual riders, the obscene riders protests against testing when at last some outside authority was trying to confront the problems head-on (showing the hollowness of the claim that anything anyone did was purely because of the rotten and unfair environment already in place around poor wee me as an aspiring drugfree racing bunny, and there is simply nothing I can do about it), the unbelievable charade of everyone involved blows away any argument to tolerate backroom procedures and protection.

And anno 2018, the ongoing smoke and mirrors TUEs, ongoing and questionable associations with people with well-known dodgy track records by far too many riders and teams, it all has convinced me that for the good of the sport, it ought to be a long time before the right of the rider to be trusted first and foremost until proven guilty becomes the overriding argument for lenghty below the radar backroom investigations. Likewise for the right of a rider to have his or her professional image placed above that of the sport as a whole.

I'd like riders to have that right, but i think that as a sport, for now, everyone has lost those privilages. Right now, to me, for the so-called greater good it should all be about public and transparent openness around amber light situations.

Sorry, blame those who went before you (and who at times are people you still chose to tolerate around you) for my desire for short procedures during which anyone investigated is no longer able to ride competitively. I am all for riders right to draw out the procedures to make a better case for themselves, feel free to write that into any rulebook, but only if they also do that from the side-lines. For the innocent that will be harsh.

I certainly see the logic of your argument t-72, but it is a generous attitude to processes, riders and rules that I think was partly the reason why it took so long for joe-public to realise how rotten our sport had become. The protection granted and the backroom culture was instrumental in keeping it hush-hush. Painting this as a “if only we had let the process ran its course it would have been so much better and cleaner” case is ignoring 2 decades of arguments why we shouldn’t trust or adopt that attitude to begin with.

As far as I am concerned the sport and riders associations can come back in 10 years when we have a decade with less scandalous incidents before we can look at protective rules with a straight face again. Earn that right, as a collective. But as long as elite riders knowingly chose to ride for a team that was wilfully employing people that had knowledgeable fans frothing in forums across the globe, whilst pretending to have turned a page to fans and sponsors... sorry, take your eye-drop free crocodile tears elsewhere. Far too many riders are still utterly reluctant to criticize any issues in the peloton. For me, writing protective and generous rules is no longer good enough.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 03, 2018, 04:53
It's late at night, and I don't want to be doing the things I SHOULD be doing - too much like work - so I was wondering if I could find something to read for a bit. And lookit at what I got! Haleluja!

. . .

For one day I was really looking forward to seeing Geraint Thomas charge the cobbles with no strings attached, get a huge time gap and set up all the climbers to try "Froomestre" attacks on every mountain stage, until someone suddenly forgets where Nibali is and he is way ahead on some unlikely flatland no one expected anything and the rest of the race to become pure chaos!  :shh

 . . . too many too long parties and it was just a dream.  :P

 . . .

The fat lady hasn't even come on stage yet, dude, she's not even been on stage. Hope remains alive. BTW, I love your idea of "What I'd Like to See"! AMOF, I'm drinking Dutch beer lately. I might be able to find a Pironi or a Moretti at one of the local stores, just to round out my support a little, eh?

. . .the decision  . . . was a political one . . .

 . . . always political, and in politics, all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others.

 . . . the process suddenly got political  . . .


Related, I am quite happy that the awareness of the behind-the-scenes issue was put firmly in the public eye. I used to be a strong fan of the innocent until proven guilty dogma, and it seemed only natural and just that the process protected riders by not letting anyone know what was being investigated, for those who were later proven to be innocent.

To me, the riders themselves have frittered away any right of such protection, through a decade or two of rather effective institutional sport-wide substance abuse, all in collusion with an equally corrupt UCI who went through great lengths to hide what it knew from the public. Especially the deafening silence from the individual riders, the obscene riders protests against testing when at last some outside authority was trying to confront the problems head-on (showi . . . the ongoing smoke and mirrors TUEs, ongoing and questionable associations with people with well-known dodgy track records by far too many riders and teams, it all has convinced me that for the good of the sport, it ought to be a long time before the right of the rider to the right to be trusted ought to be the overriding argument for backroom investigations, rather than public openness around amber light situations.

Sorry, blame those who went before you (and who at times are people you still chose to tolerate around you) for my desire for short procedures during which anyone investigated is no longer able to ride competitively. I am all for riders right to draw out the procedures to make a better case for themselves, feel free to write that into any rulebook, but only if they also do that from the side-lines. For the innocent that will be harsh.

 . . .why it took so long for joe-public to realise how rotten our sport had become. The protection granted and the backroom culture was instrumental in keeping it hush-hush.  . . .

As far as I am concerned the sport and riders associations can come back in 10 years when we have a decade with less scandalous incidents before we can look at protective rules with a straight face again. Earn that right, as a collective. But as long as elite riders knowingly chose to ride for a team that was wilfully employing people that had knowledgeable fans frothing in forums across the globe, whilst pretending to have turned a page to fans and sponsors... sorry, take your eye-drop free crocodile tears elsewhere. Far too many riders are still utterly reluctant to criticize any issues in the peloton. For me, writing protective and generous rules is no longer good enough.



Protective rules are good, so long as they ARE protective. When they are no longer protective, then other rulesets need to be employed.

A few thoughts come to mind. For instance, earlier today I saw a retweet of the good Dr Ferrari's tweet. Seems Michele is commenting on the current brouhaha to say that everybody is STILL doing whatever they think they can get away with.

I saw another comment - noting that cycling is not really any dirtier than other sports - but rather our cycling organizations have done a spectacularly bad job at managing it. I do find thinking of a few other sports useful in this regard. E.g., horse racing, dog racing. weight lifting, boxing, WWE wrestling, MMA, track and field. All spectacularly dirty. EPO is still even a thing in long-distance running.

Horse and dog racing, and boxing, have been, if anything, dirtier than cycling. MMA is way dirtier, but the fans don't care and won't believe it. And the only reason it hasn't been dirtier longer is because it hasn't been around that long. Boxing manages to avoid the worst of the drug problems, even though their regulatory agencies make Hein look like a choir boy. I suppose an argument could be made that cycling, during the period of their greatest drug violations, the sport was also breaking into TV as an entertainment. And thus under greater scrutiny. And, our fans and adherents DO care about doping and honesty about it (in opposition to the attitudes of MMA watchers). As Michael Porter so clearly pointed out - a discriminating market makes a world of difference to the business model.

I don't bring any of that up to excuse our cycling sport. Not at all. Rather, a thought to keep a rational and realistic "eye" out while we yet work through this soap opera drama.

Very interesting commentary gents. Thanks. I'd "like" both posts a few times - but that's not allowed, eh?
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: LukasCPH on July 03, 2018, 13:23
Anyway, now that we see the rules make sense after all, how about some journalists looking at who leaked the info and why?
About that, speaking as a journo:
No journalist will ever give up their sources to anyone. Ever.
It's simply not done. Ever.
And that includes giving up sources to law enforcement; journalists - like doctors or lawyers - have the privilege of not having to divulge information.[1]

While it's not impossible that the leaker whistleblower source would give themselves up, it's unlikely. Especially in this case where they'd probably be chased down by Froome's legal team and sued for damages and whatnot.
 1. At least where I live they do, and I think it's a very important right.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 03, 2018, 17:16
. . .
No journalist will ever give up their sources to anyone.  . . , and I think it's a very important right. . .

Transparency has always been associated with democracy. And the lack of it has always been associated with other forms of government. Since this leaker brought transparency to the situation, I have to agree that the right, in this case, is indeed very important. Personally, I was glad to see this leak. Even though it showed up the UCI and WADA pretty badly, making both appear toothless and/or corrupt, I feel pretty strongly that, in the long run, this will be a positive turning point. It has made apparent that the UCI and WADA need to work on their procedures.

It could be argued that transparency would now mean that the leaker should reveal themselves. But this is exactly what protective rules are for. When the greater good of the community is served by protective regulations - regulations which protect the weak - then they should be in place.  A very good example of when such protections do NOT work would be the Russian Soviet, with their numerous levels of neighbor-watchers. Or the French revolution, for that matter. Or the McCarthy era in the US. Those were times when the ability to accuse became so strong that, ultimately, the community suffered rather than benefited. All of the accusers thought they were doing the right thing.[1] To some degree, I think the accusers in the Clinic have reached this level - or, perhaps more accurately - OVER-reached. Yet, as Francois points out, the peloton has, in a way, given up any rights, due the massive abuse of trust that was perpetrated.
 1. Well, in general. Surely there were selfish people, with self-centered reasons, but I think you get the point. At some general level, there was a tacit agreement that the actors in each situation were doing something morally right.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Flo on July 04, 2018, 14:39
UK newspaper Daily Mirror's TDF preview almost seems like a parody. Almost :P
https://twitter.com/ukcyclingexpert/status/1014026587283623936
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: M Gee on July 05, 2018, 15:32
UK newspaper Daily Mirror's TDF preview almost seems like a parody. Almost :P
 . . .

It does! Somebody must be having somebody (else) on - that can't be for real. I like the response tweet https://twitter.com/bicycal_life/status/1014032207634227200 (https://twitter.com/bicycal_life/status/1014032207634227200)

“Oy, you, making the tea, you cycled in this morning, that cycling thing’s happening soon, write something we can put in the sports section!”
“I don’t know ‘nuffin ‘bout cycling!”
“Make some sh*t up, no one will read it anyway!”
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Drummer Boy on July 05, 2018, 19:18
Should anyone ever wonder why cycling struggles to be understood as a sport in the U.S., this official TdF preview from NBC Sports might explain a few things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9KRIYTE0cw

I can't believe that someone was actually paid to produce and edit that. I also can't imagine what their target audience is. Any seasoned cycling fan would only end up scratching their head; any newcomer to the sport would hardly be any more informed after watching this poor excuse of a promo.

So let's see: The Tour apparently jumps to Stage 12 after some sort of clipping-in session with Wiggins and Cancellara. OK.

Then the video morphs into an inexplicable feel-good story about Steve Cummings' stage win...in 2015.

This is NBC Sports. The largest and most influential network in America with the rights to cover cycling. Yet there's zero contextual continuity in this piece, and nowhere do they mention just when coverage will begin or end, and how the viewer might follow along.

I'd say that if your official Preview video only garners four (4!) total comments on Youtube after being up for a week, perhaps you should lose the privilege of covering the event in the first place.

NBC has ruined pro cycling in the U.S. Step-by-step, year-after-year, they have systematically taken over other networks and websites that were effectively covering the sport, only to bury it with weak coverage, poor representation, confusing options, and total disregard for the informed fans. Why they spent any money at all to acquire the rights is beyond me.

Even on the main NBC Sports website, and with the TdF just days away, cycling is not mentioned anywhere on the top of the homepage banner. The links to other sports are prominent—even the ones that are currently out-of-season—but cycling is relegated to the drop-down menu of "More." And even then, they somehow can't be bothered to spell more than "CYC" for cycling.

The first few times I went to their site (https://www.nbcsports.com), I didn't even catch the abbreviation. It seems they couldn't try harder to obscure the sport altogether.

These are the options:

OLYMPICS
CYC
TENNIS
MOTORS
HORSES
NCAA FB (?)
NCAA BK (?)
RUGBY
DOG SHOW
SAILING
BOXING

Brilliant effort, NBC. Bravo.

No wonder Liggett and Sherwen are still employed by them. Nobody is minding the shop.
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Capt_Cavman on July 05, 2018, 23:30
Dog show's a sport in the US? That's reaching a different audience!
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Francois the Postman on July 06, 2018, 00:21
Dog show's a sport in the US? That's reaching a different audience!

No, that's the NBC TdF shortcut. Anyone knows it's the greatest show on earth starring Froomedog!

:froomepup
Title: Re: Tour de France 2018 General News
Post by: Leadbelly on July 06, 2018, 19:15
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44576490

Cavendish's analysis on the twenty one stages.

He has either himself, a team mate or a fellow Brit winning ten of the stages. :lol :fp