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Professional Cycling => Road Races => Topic started by: Flo on February 27, 2017, 18:51

Title: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on February 27, 2017, 18:51
Paris - Nice || 5 - 12 March 2017 :web (http://www.letour.fr/paris-nice/2017/us/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vt-GMWACA3uGj.jpg)
(http://www.letour.fr/paris-nice/2017/img/map_home2.jpg)



75th edition of the Race to the Sun
  :onfire1 :onfire1

Recent History
2016 | THOMAS Geraint
2015 | PORTE Richie
2014 | BETANCUR Carlos
2013 | PORTE Richie
2012 | WIGGINS Bradley
2011 | MARTIN Tony
2010 | CONTADOR Alberto
2009 | SANCHEZ Luis Leon
2008 | REBELLIN Davide
2007 | CONTADOR Alberto

Top-10 2016
1.THOMAS Geraint27:26:40
2.CONTADOR Alberto0:04
3.PORTE Richie0:12
4.ZAKARIN Ilnur0:20
5.IZAGIRRE Ion0:37
6.HENAO Sergio Luis0:44
7.YATES Simon"
8.GALLOPIN Tony0:51
9.BARDET Romain1:00
10.COSTA Rui1:07

A summary of last year's most exciting stage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVXdFIfUIcY&t=1s
And the stage in full ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md2pCP9wm_w

The Parcours

Stage 1
Bois-d'Arcy / Bois-d'Arcy
 
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/100/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/100/PROFILKMS.png)
A relatively boring flat stage with a potentially tricky finish.

Stage 2
Rochefort-en-Yvelines / Amilly   

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/200/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/200/PROFILKMS.png)
Another boring flat stage, this time with a straightforward finish.

Stage 3
Chablis / Chalon-sur-Saône

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/300/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/300/PROFILKMS.png)
More flat roads.

Stage 4
Beaujeu / Mont Brouilly

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/400/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/400/PROFILCOLSCOTES_1.png)
Probably the first interesting stage and a very important one for the final GC, an ITT with the finish on Mont Brouilly, as an apology for last year's debacle when the stage to Mont Brouilly was cancelled due to snow. Mont Brouilly is 3km at 7.7%, but it is a very irregular climb which alternates flat sections with extremely steep ones. This is the profile provided last year:
(http://cdn.cyclingstage.com/images/paris-nice/2016/stage-3-mont-brouilly.png)
Interestingly, the stats are a bit different, but in last year's route details the climb is also listed as 3km at 7.7%.
I wonder what TT set-up the riders will use. Will someone dare to go for a bike switch or will we see the riders on road bikes with TT bars? I remember that at last year's Vuelta al Pais Vasco ITT, Magnus Bäckstedt criticized Nairo Quintana's bike switch, saying that you'd need at least 10km of flat to have a net gain. Well, how interesting that there are just over 10 flat kilometers before the climb :D

Stage 5
Quincié-en-Beaujolais / Bourg-de-Péage

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/500/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/500/PROFILKMS.png)
Lots of up and down in the first part of the stage but still likely to end in a sprint.

Stage 6
Aubagne / Fayence

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/600/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/600/PROFILKMS.png)
A very demanding stage, with the Col de l'Espigoulier (8.9km/5.6%) right after the start and then at the end a combination of the 1st-category Col de Bourigaille with a short, steep finish in Fayence. As if this wasn't demanding enough on it's own, the organizers decided this should be a circuit, so we have two sides of the Bourigaille included (first time 5.5km/6.1%, second time 8.1km/5.9%) and the riders will pass the finish twice. The parcours definitely invites attacks from further out from those who lost time in the ITT, but with two tough days to come, the GC favorites might let it come down to an explosive battle up the final hill (1.3km/9.8%). I think there is a high chance the victory will go to someone from the break.

Stage 7
Nice / Col de la Couillole

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/700/PROFIL.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/700/PROFILCOLSCOTES_2.png)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/700/PROFILCOLSCOTES_1.png)
The queen stage of this year's race which will likely decide the outcome. In a very bold move, the organizers included the Col de la Couillole, the highest point ever for Paris-Nice, but remembering last year's race we can't be sure it will actually be climbed. For the sake of this race preview, let's assume the weather gods behave and we will see a big battle. Couillole is extremely tough, especially for this time of the year, with 15.7km at 7.1%, but the combination with the Col Saint-Martin (7.5km/7.2%) makes it truly epic. Likely, we will see the GC favorites battle for the stage and the yellow jersey.

Stage 8
Nice / Nice

(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/800/PROFIL.png)
(http://cdn.touretappe.nl/images/parijs-nice/col-d-eze.jpg)
(http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/PNC/2017/800/PROFILKMS.png)
After stage 7, the general classification will have been more or less sorted out, but this final stage, the classic Col d'Eze stage, still presents one last opportunity for those who dare to take a risk. Last year, we saw Alberto Contador attack with over 50km to go on the Côte de Peille (6.5km/6.9%) to find 15 seconds to claim the yellow jersey. He knows this stage like no other, he managed to win this stage and the GC with an attack from far out in 2007. He was ultimately unsuccessful last year but it was a battle all the way to the line. Hopefully, we'll witness another thriller this year.

The Overall Contenders
(https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/WATSON_00004531-007.jpg)
The main favorites for the overall victory are Alberto Contador and Richie Porte, 2nd and 3rd on GC in 2016. Both have had a good start to the season, both have declared they are coming to win, both are known for their skill in one-week stage races, both have a great TT in their legs, especially on hilly terrain and both are 2-time winners of the race! The main difference is probably that Porte has had a long break since his start of the season in Australia, building form, whereas Contador started his season later but completed both the Vuelta a Andalucia and the Abu Dhabi Tour recently. I honestly can't say which of the two is more likely to win, it could go either way.

Two other favorites are Ilnur Zakarin and Alejandro Valverde, they are both decent TTers and a good climbers, but I'd have to put them one step below Contador and Porte. However, if those are watching each other, these two have a good chance to walk away with the prize.
Another good allrounder on the startlist is Ion Izagirre, but his climbing skills aren't likely to be good enough to win the race.

Then we have a few riders who will find themselves on the back foot after the ITT, Romain Bardet, Simon Yates, Warren Barguil, Daniel Martin and David de la Cruz for QuickStep, and most of what Cannondale is bringing. QS and Cannondale also bring Julian Alaphilippe and Andrew Talansky, who can, at times, ride a decent TT and climb well, but I feel the race is too tough for Alaphilippe and I never expect anything at all from Talansky because he usually disappoints.

The Sprinters
(http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/02/WATSON_00004486-001-630x420.jpg)
The sprinters' lineup looks very tasty, we have several big names at the start, most notably Marcel Kittel, André Greipel, Arnaud Démare and Nacer Bouhanni, but also Alexander Kristoff, John Degenkolb, Dylan Groenewegen, Michael Matthews, Sonny Colbrelli and Bryan Coquard.

Others to keep an eye on are Ben Swift, Sam Bennett, Dan McLay, Magnus Cort Nielsen, Niccoló Bonifazio, Andrea Guardini and Danny van Poppel.

The full startlist can be found here (http://www.letour.fr/paris-nice/2017/us/riders.html)


Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on February 27, 2017, 21:53
I missed Kruijswijk on the startlist :shh
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 07:35
I missed Kruijswijk on the startlist :shh

it is ok he is missing all of 2016 form so far this year anyway
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 07:37
~pdf Paris - Nice / Roadbook (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6g1gOm2sMzAOElxMUJMNzFwMTg) (on Google Drive)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on February 28, 2017, 07:41
it is ok he is missing all of 2016 form so far this year anyway

Kruijswijk didn't have any major results last year either, and he is doing the same kind of preparation for the Giro again.

so yeah, he will attack here and there I guess, but there's not too much to expect, result-wise
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: pastronef on February 28, 2017, 09:08
Flo you forgot Poels (and Henao)  :P
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 14:17
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5wfjryXQAQxrUW.jpg)

Lotto´s kit for the race
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on February 28, 2017, 14:25
Flo you forgot Poels (and Henao)  :P
You're right I wanted to include Henao in the list of riders that'll lose a lot of time in the TT :)
Poels did not impress me at all in Andalucia, he had 2 top riders working for him and he was still sh*t
Of course he is a Sky rider so could go from sh*t to hit in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on February 28, 2017, 14:26
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5wfjryXQAQxrUW.jpg)

Lotto´s kit for the race
Again that ugly grey
What is the reason they wear that at Paris-Nice? It was the same last year
Brings back bad memories :angry
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on February 28, 2017, 15:33
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5vt-GMWACA3uGj.jpg)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on February 28, 2017, 18:34
Again that ugly grey
What is the reason they wear that at Paris-Nice? It was the same last year
Brings back bad memories :angry
That's not grey, that's a dark turquoise blue. :P

They do it to promote FixALL, one of Soudal's products. Though I can't tell you why they do it at Paris-Nice and not another race.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: pastronef on February 28, 2017, 19:47
You're right I wanted to include Henao in the list of riders that'll lose a lot of time in the TT :)
Poels did not impress me at all in Andalucia, he had 2 top riders working for him and he was still sh*t
Of course he is a Sky rider so could go from sh*t to hit in 2 weeks.

he was 4th in GC and went better in the TT
anyway
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on February 28, 2017, 22:01

Stage 8 Nice / Nice
After stage 7, the general classification will have been more or less sorted out, but this final stage, the classic Col d'Eze stage...

(emphasis is mine)

I really agree this is a classic stage - almost every year I have watched it it has been a thrill! this year, as often before - it will feature #sky Geraint Thomas chasing hard downhill. I don't know how he'll make it into there, some confusion on the T-A route perhaps - I just can picture this stage without a Geraint Thomas fall.  :)

(I should have inserted a poll here ... how close to the finish line before he falls?)

Anyway - if Thomas can't fall then it will be #bmc Richie Porte who has to take it. They tend to fall in the same races and on this type of parcours (like - this stage 2015 or 14, can't remember exactly which one - and the Rio Olympics RR) If I recall correctly it is the Chateauneuf descent that has been the slaughterhouse of the (then) team Sky downhill skills. It is in this year's edition but it comes earlier in the race than it used to. A more mellow descent, Cotê de Peille is the second-last descent in this edition. They will go all the way down to Nice (more or less) and then back up the Col d'Eze via La Condamine (the backside, if anywhere close to Europe's recreational real-estate epicenter can be termed backside). The top is then actually a bit higher up compared to the TT route, but they will come down to the bridge at Eze and take the classic descent back into town.

If #ag2r Romain Bardet is actually interested in winning, the route suits him perfectly - but I seem to remember this race is training for his July antics and no big target for him in itself.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 01, 2017, 07:06
Paris-Nice...we need a photo of this man....

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/42/2f/b2/422fb24099b9cdf263d32c08ea3b4214.jpg)

Seven times champion., that is quite some record. Chapeau to King Kelly
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on March 01, 2017, 09:38
This is a great race and a perfect opener to the stage races proper after the classics this past weekend.

As a small aside, this is the key race to start the season for my Wife. She has had the TV to herself all winter (apart from key 6 day and cross events) to watch tv chefs and reality shows and this will get her back in the flow of having to watch cycling every night for a week.

Really important for her to get back into the flow and daily routine of a decent stage race.

The downside is that by the end of the race she is already online booking a holiday to one of the lovely stage towns we see en route.

I swear that one year I will be camping on the runway at Mende for two weeks in the summer.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on March 01, 2017, 12:25
This is a great race and a perfect opener to the stage races proper after the classics this past weekend.

As a small aside, this is the key race to start the season for my Wife. She has had the TV to herself all winter (apart from key 6 day and cross events) to watch tv chefs and reality shows and this will get her back in the flow of having to watch cycling every night for a week.

Really important for her to get back into the flow and daily routine of a decent stage race.

The downside is that by the end of the race she is already online booking a holiday to one of the lovely stage towns we see en route.

I swear that one year I will be camping on the runway at Mende for two weeks in the summer.
Post of the year material. :lol
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on March 01, 2017, 12:26
Paris-Nice...we need a photo of this man....

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/42/2f/b2/422fb24099b9cdf263d32c08ea3b4214.jpg)

Seven times champion., that is quite some record. Chapeau to King Kelly
Aye!
Maybe his *ie nephew from Brummy will step up this year?[1]
 1. Dan Martin is Sean Kelly's nephew or somesuch, right?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 01, 2017, 12:41
Aye!
Maybe his *ie nephew from Brummy will step up this year?[1]
 1. Dan Martin is Sean Kelly's nephew or somesuch, right?

unless Kelly and Roche are brother no  ;)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on March 01, 2017, 12:44
unöless Kelly and Roche are brother no  ;)
Ah, so I got that the wrong way around, and Dan "Bad Teeth" Martin is Nico's cousin?

Damn those Irish and their complicated family relations! :D
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 01, 2017, 13:44
Ah, so I got that the wrong way around, and Dan "Bad Teeth" Martin is Nico's cousin?

Damn those Irish and their complicated family relations! :D

Dan Martin used to go to the primary school next door to the secondary school I was at...albeit some years after I'd left
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Joelsim on March 01, 2017, 13:57
Looks like Buchmann has been given leader status for this along with Konrad, for Bora.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on March 01, 2017, 20:27
Dan Martin used to go to the primary school next door to the secondary school I was at...albeit some years after I'd left

Are you originally a Tammy then?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 01, 2017, 20:46
Are you originally a Tammy then?

(https://tamworthtimehikes.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/tam_1.jpg)

I must confess I am
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: DJW on March 02, 2017, 14:21
https://twitter.com/WoutPoels/status/837305456800448513
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 05, 2017, 09:17
https://twitter.com/LaVelocipede/status/838139605954224128
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 05, 2017, 09:29
https://twitter.com/robhatchtv/status/838320092844802048
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 05, 2017, 09:51
today's finish, mapped by @raffilpt



so it's basically ~500m at 10% average, then 1300m flat to the line. Should be enough to shake up the sprint trains - or even a successful attack maybe
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 05, 2017, 12:01
I am on google earth checking out the route. I have seen reports on high winds and rain and talk about bordures but the route is not very exposed to winds in general, following the forested areas more than open fields in between them. If I understood it right, there's a headwind to the finish, so it will be hard to say in front anyway. This is the catch with loop-courses on a windy day. A straightline course (and crosswinds)  would have dished it up more for the teams who are strong in the crosswinds. Now, this one looks more like one for the puncheurs and uphill finishers. The finish looks like Valkenburg...

I guess that means #sunweb Matthews again?

Good alternatives:
#trek Degenkolb
#bahrain Gasparotto
#orica Albasini and Gerrans? (if they still had Matthews they could blanket the podium...)
#quickstep Gilbert
#sky Henao
#astana Valgren
#uae Swift
#directenergie Coquard

Outsiders
#cannondale Villela
#katusha Bystrøm

EDIT: I don't think I will follow this live (X-C skiing 50 km world championship may be prioritized) so this message may be followed by some hours complete radio silence!
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 05, 2017, 16:39
OK, that became more crosswind influenced than I thought it would.
I'll live with not having Demare in my selection but Alaphilippe should have been there  :S. He fits the bill as a guy with a good punch for the finish. :angry

For the finish, I predicted something Cauberg-like and that seemed to stick as the group did not have enough strength to roll back Alaphilippe's attack.

#quickstep Alaphilippe for the GC now?






Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 05, 2017, 16:57
 Came home from Sunday lunch to find carnage.
Boring, that certainly was not. Be tough for any of the lumpy stuff to be beat that for flat out entertainment.
Now I see that Bardet has be DQF'd, presumably for the huge amount of moto assist he got, after his crash.
That's my Velogames team, toast.
Reckon Little Richie is still a threat to the likes of Alaphilippe and Henao.
Bertie, not so much. Seems he was dropped on that drag at the finish.

Now, off to Italy.
Saving the extra large helping of Belgian cobbles for tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 05, 2017, 17:09
Looking for some #ag2r AG2R comments or at least a story explaining a little more what happened. Who was the BMC rider that was with him (cause he returned to the group s.t. as Bardet?)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 05, 2017, 17:15
Bardet disqualified. A bit harsh, but okay I guess

edit: too late
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 05, 2017, 17:17
It never stops!
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on March 05, 2017, 19:46
Demare was a bit good today. Perhaps we'll see him win MSR this year with an attack on the Poggio rather than in a sprint.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: DJW on March 05, 2017, 22:23
Got this on record, but what the hell happened there?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 05, 2017, 23:09
Demare was a bit good today. Perhaps we'll see him win MSR this year with an attack on the Poggio rather than in a sprint.

he was on the edge today I think, 100m more to push on that climb and he would have exploded - but Alaphilippe made the mistake to try to keep something in the tank for the sprint. But nonetheless... really strong, yeah
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on March 05, 2017, 23:20
he was on the edge today I think, 100m more to push on that climb and he would have exploded - but Alaphilippe made the mistake to try to keep something in the tank for the sprint. But nonetheless... really strong, yeah

My suggestion about the attack on the Poggio was tongue in cheek but that he was able to follow Alaphilippe and others in the group couldn't/wouldn't/didn't shows that he's in very good shape to me to defend his title at MSR
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: AG on March 06, 2017, 01:32
recorded it and watched today

oretty good stage.  I am a bit surprised that Bardet was DQ'd - but good decision generally.  you could see he was hanging on and drafting a LOT.   As long as it is consistent all will be fine.

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on March 06, 2017, 10:09
Bardet has the grandeur to step up, admit it was wrong, and apologise: :cool
https://twitter.com/romainbardet/status/838460331395534852
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 06, 2017, 10:36
No time for a quality stage preview from me today; I just noted that

My bet: selection to happen before the local loops, sprint finish from a reduced bunch, winner:

#fdj Demare
 
alternatives:
#katusha Kristoff
#lotto Greipel
#quickstep Kittel
#cofidis Bohanni
#sunweb Matthews
#trek Degenkolb

GC candidate to drop out in crosswinds:
#ag2r Bardet  :P
#trek Contador (the team seems to struggle with something)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Carlo Algatrensig on March 06, 2017, 10:39
recorded it and watched today

oretty good stage.  I am a bit surprised that Bardet was DQ'd - but good decision generally.  you could see he was hanging on and drafting a LOT.   As long as it is consistent all will be fine.

But thats the problem it probably won't be consistent. Had another 2 or 3 GC riders gone down in the crash and they'd all had a few magic spanners and some drafting to get back on I'd imagine it would have been a few fines handed out rather than DSQ's.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Trudgin on March 06, 2017, 11:35
Looking for some #ag2r AG2R comments or at least a story explaining a little more what happened. Who was the BMC rider that was with him (cause he returned to the group s.t. as Bardet?)

Schar never made it back he DNF'd
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Trudgin on March 06, 2017, 11:42

I'm surprised at you all, suprised that the poor French boy was DQ'd whereas the nasty Italian deserved it of course, back in the Vuelta.

But he boy apologised, so did the italian but he is vilified and it is brought up everytime a rider has a sticky bottle (some commentators / podcasters).

Man the italian even had a DS in tears taking responsibility...


Both were DQ'd, and both should have been DQ'd

And that is the end of it.

Sorry I cant rant on twitter more that 140 characters... just ignore me

And breathe
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 06, 2017, 11:44
Schar never made it back he DNF'd

OK, next question then (what I really wonder is...) was that Richie Porte?
It was a rather small rider compared to Bardet, and most of the BMC squad is made up of tall guys...
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 06, 2017, 11:45
I see I am already proven wrong on how the stage would evolve:

https://twitter.com/ParisNice/status/838712730072846336
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 06, 2017, 11:57
This will be an epic day - but my tip Demare is in the first group.  :D

https://twitter.com/ParisNice/status/838717758854529025
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: LukasCPH on March 06, 2017, 13:28
This will be an epic day - but my tip Demare is in the first group.  :D
It's absolute madness out there!
And still one hour to go until Eurosport go live ... :(
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Trudgin on March 06, 2017, 16:08

Lalalalaaaaalalaaaalala

Sonny :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 07, 2017, 08:39


looked like being a real ugly stage for many, turned out just to be bitch of day for most except Little Richard and #bmc who got flused down the toilet
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 07, 2017, 08:45
Looks like the weather is much better today no rain
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 07, 2017, 09:24

I really enjoyed yesterday's stage, I thought Gilbert showed some real grit in miserable conditions. It's good top see him really at the sharp end of things again.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: zinoviev letter on March 07, 2017, 19:21
Great sprint by Sam Bennett  #bora against a field including most of the best sprinters in the world. Particularly nice to see two likeable underdog sprinters win in a row.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 08, 2017, 06:50


Nice to see Postman Sam winning
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 08, 2017, 08:12
today's stage should be really interesting, with the ~10k flat section and then the fairly steep climb. I checked for some more or less comparable time trials in the past, but there are not too many.

The annual one the the Etoile de Bessege comes relatively close, although with a way shorter climb

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d6dcf8_5ac1b84445104c838c418cf9451cfb4f~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_600,h_249,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/d6dcf8_5ac1b84445104c838c418cf9451cfb4f~mv2.png)



Then in Pais Vasco there was a more or less comparable one, although with the Aia double in the end, so more climbing

(https://unavueltamejor.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/etapa-6.png?w=650&h=323) (https://unavueltamejor.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/encadenado-aia.png)



Tony Martin lost something around ~45 seconds in the 2nd part back then, so around ~5% of the 18 minute interval. On Mont Brouilly Wilco Kelderman has the Strava record for the final 2.2k with 6:15 minutes (set during the 200k stage in Paris Nice 2014), so the total climbing time should (at most) be around 8 minutes for the final 3k today. If Martin can limit his losses to 5% (24 seconds) again, may he have a chance to win?!

There are some more hilly time trials of course starting with a flat, but in most cases (Flumserberg in Tour de Suisse for example) the climb was way harder. In the Tour of California there was one with a climb of kinda similar average gradient and length in the end a few years back, but the flat part was almost three times as long:

(http://www.procyclingstats.com/races/profilesmaps/2013-02/Amgen-Tour-of-California-Stage-6-ITT-1360691071.png)

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Not My Circus on March 08, 2017, 09:16


Lookit #specialbreschel with the points scoring :cheer
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 08, 2017, 15:37


 :o :o :shh :shh
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 08, 2017, 16:01


Nice to see Postman Sam winning

photo finish :P

(https://scontent-fra3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/17126868_1852520481696638_8750645576657272832_n.jpg)

(via @jnsbseoul]
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 08, 2017, 17:38


 :o :o :shh :shh
:angry :angry :angry :angry :( :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 08, 2017, 18:22
 Is a minute and a half retrievable on the big climb, or is making the podium a more realistic goal?



Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 08, 2017, 18:27
Is a minute and a half retrievable on the big climb, or is making the podium a more realistic goal?
The latter. He needs 3 seconds on Zakarin, 11 seconds on Martin, 26 on Henao and 1:31 on Alaphilippe. If he manages to pass two of them and he's third. I'd say 26 seconds on Henao and especially 1:31 on Alaphilippe is pretty much impossible, unless they implode. To keep his GC hopes alive, he should have gained time on Alaphilippe and gained more on Henao.

Of course, I don't really care about a podium. I'd prefer to see him win a stage, but he seems to be terrible at winning (non-MTT) stages the last few years :S
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 08, 2017, 18:52
Climbing Times:

1      #bmc PORTE Richie       7:38.04
2      #trek CONTADOR Alberto       7:42.06
3      #sunweb ARNDT Nikias       7:44.56
4      #katusha ZAKARIN Ilnur       7:45.48
5      #cofidis EDET Nicolas       7:50.27
6      #quickstep ALAPHILIPPE Julian       7:50.76
7      #lotto GALLOPIN Tony       7:54.90
8      #bahrain IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Jon       7:55.02
9      #cannondale FORMOLO Davide       7:55.26
10      #quickstep MARTIN Daniel       7:57.11
11      #quickstep DE LA CRUZ David       7:57.52
12      #sunweb OOMEN Sam       7:58.79
13      #cannondale VILLELLA Davide       8:01.51
14      #movistar SOLER Marc       8:03.70
15      #movistar IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Gorka       8:03.79
16      #sky HENAO MONTOYA Sergio       8:04.87
17      #lotto DE GENDT Thomas       8:06.39
18      #bora KONRAD Patrick       8:07.06
19      #fdj MOLARD Rudy       8:09.51
20      #direct CALMEJANE Lilian       8:09.89
            
36      #orica YATES Simon      8:19.64
            
48      #sunweb MATTHEWS Michael      8:26.67
            
51      #katusha MARTIN Tony      8:28.56
            
117      #sunweb BARGUIL Warren      9:16.56

(Villella came out in 1st with a 7'01, using ASO's times, but I just amended it by a minute, as Pauwels time - who started a minute after him - didn't show up at all. I guess there was some confusion).

No idea what's up there with Arndt - or Barguil, on the other side of the table
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Murrjt on March 08, 2017, 19:01
Barguil was misdirected by a policeman which I guess was in that section.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 08, 2017, 19:02
well, I did a lot of calculations there, only to find out that ASO published all the climbing times in the very same PDF I was working with, but a couple of pages later :fp

~pdf http://matsport.fr/resultat/2017/PNC/pdf/Etape_04/_PNC_20170308_0400_Press_Release.pdf (page 17f)

(and just scrapped both Villella and Arndt btw)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: AG on March 08, 2017, 23:39
The latter. He needs 3 seconds on Zakarin, 11 seconds on Martin, 26 on Henao and 1:31 on Alaphilippe. If he manages to pass two of them and he's third. I'd say 26 seconds on Henao and especially 1:31 on Alaphilippe is pretty much impossible, unless they implode. To keep his GC hopes alive, he should have gained time on Alaphilippe and gained more on Henao.

Of course, I don't really care about a podium. I'd prefer to see him win a stage, but he seems to be terrible at winning (non-MTT) stages the last few years :S

I agree I dont think 1.31 on Alaphilippe is doable - but I think 2nd is fairly realistic.   I dont see Henao as unassailable though ...
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 09, 2017, 06:53
Hell  of a ride by Alaphillipe, he really emptied the tank there. Porte's climbing time was quite ominus though. that shows real climbing form
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 09, 2017, 07:52
I agree I dont think 1.31 on Alaphilippe is doable - but I think 2nd is fairly realistic.  I dont see Henao as unassailable though ...

 Especially, looking at the respective climbing times for Mont Brouilly.
Henao looks more vulnerable than Zakarin or Martin, but has a bit more of a buffer.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 09, 2017, 08:12
Especially, looking at the respective climbing times for Mont Brouilly.
Henao looks more vulnerable than Zakarin or Martin, but has a bit more of a buffer.

agree
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 09, 2017, 09:35
Is this #trek Alberto's fan club thread now? In that case, why all this talk about a podium?  :P
If Contador designed the podiums they would have only one step. If there is one rider unlikely to make the podium (as in position 2 and 3) it is Contador. The only difference an extra minute or two behind before the mountain stages seem to make for him, is if the attacks are going to be a little bit risky or complete madness, never-gonna-make-it style!

He's gonna end 1st or 4th. The mistakes of last year can not and will not be repeated!  :D

PS: the final climb to Fayence is designed by Yves-St-Laurent and Philippe Starck especially for #quickstep Alaphilippe but it's going to be done twice with some hill country in between. I wouldn't be surprised if Alberto attacks first time up to Fayence or even earlier. He had a pretty good ride on a similar stage to Guardigrele in the T-A a few years back. ;)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 09, 2017, 17:39


Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 09, 2017, 19:21
I saw this live on television, and can't double check if my impressions are right but: is it correct that Greipel won this more or less on his own - without using the #lotto train at all?

While (for contrast, flop of the day) #katusha Kristoff put Tony Martin in front with 10 km to go only to completely derail the red train in the chaotic downhill/uphill run-in to the sprint?

If you agree, that this is what happened, it is a #lotto Greipel display of tactical masterclass. It maybe sounds simple - but it looked like they had called the chaotic sprint from reckon and decided the better way to handle this was for Greipel to do it alone. Perfect positioning and a pure class victory there.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 09, 2017, 22:19
Ok, tomorrow is the stage I have been waiting for. I was hoping for #fdj Odd Christian Eiking to have a go on the Chemin de termes but as he was dropped from the team following illness earlier this season that is not to happen.

This stage is 193 km long and it starts of with a 1st category climb where the break of the day will most likely get a good gap. The finale includes 2 rounds on a circuit including the "Col de Bourrigale" (as far as I can remember this is a crossroads in the middle of the woods somewhere, been past there without noticing it at all).

The circuit includes the steep climb up the Chemin de Termes to Fayence, which will be the finishing stretch. Dubbed Mur de FAyence by race organisers, Paris-Nice have been up here a few times before. This time "Mur" is maybe right, as it ends with a ZIGZAG of tight turns where Tom Jelte Slagter slipped and #ag2r Betancur took stage win, leading to overall victory, in 2014.

It is also the same finish as the stage where Alberto Contador cracked and lost the race, in 2009.

As indicated earlier, this stage could be ambush country for Contador trying to regain time on Alaphilippe, but that would probably require an early attack - something he is capable of - about right when TV gets live pictures on the "Col de Bourrigalle".  Now that's also written on the P-N website in the updated stage introduction text so there is hardly an element of surprise involved. About the terrain I have been cycling there two times and the impression is that the inclinometer on my Garmin seemed to be stuck on 7.6 % almost all the time. I can't remember the details, but many of the roads (not all) have an excellent grippy kind of surfacing that can serve well for some ballsy descents.

If there is a compact bunch all the way to the base of the Chemin de Termes 2nd time - it is advantage #quickstep Alaphilippe. The
only one in the peloton I can see beating him on that kind of terrain would be ...  #quickstep Dan Martin?   :P More seriously - #sunweb Michael Matthews seem to be up to something with his climbing of late. #bmc Richie Porte may be allowed to go where Contador isn't and can also take the stage although his remaining objective is more probably saturday's MTF.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on March 10, 2017, 09:34
I thought Dylan had that one  #jumbo  #jumbo  #jumbo ... just couldn't hold on.

I think that shows the experience the Gorillia has  #lotto he used his riders up early but just hung around near the front before finding clean air in the final straight.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 10, 2017, 16:39


well that was all a bit meh
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: AG on March 11, 2017, 01:02
yeah I thought it was going to be very exciting ... but had already basically fizzled out before live pictures

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 11, 2017, 08:54
https://twitter.com/LottoJumbo_road/status/840484051328864256
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 11, 2017, 16:45


A bit more interesting than the race between the sea´s

Pantano was very strong been a long time Contador has had any help like that. Porte was always going to be let loose, and will be pretty happy Henao doing his best to loose the race
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 11, 2017, 17:14


A bit more interesting than the race between the sea´s

Pantano was very strong been a long time Contador has had any help like that. Porte was always going to be let loose, and will be pretty happy Henao doing his best to loose the race

Not sure I agree with that.
Far more attacking animation, earlier on the Terminillio.
Just that the final km here was very dramatic and as I pondered earlier, I thought Henao might struggle.

Porte? A bit hard to tell, but he did look to climb that with more ease than the rest.
If only he didn't spend so much time impersonating Andy Schleck looking for brother Frank.

 As it stands, Henao has half a minute and that usually is enough, but the podium order is still all to play for.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 11, 2017, 19:06
An enjoyable stage. Martin rode steadily and it would be nice to see him get a podium. Contador is still such a class rider, I love watching him ride. Porte...welll yes it was impressive but for a man of his aspiration it will never be any good unless he can learn to join the dots over the course of a GT.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 11, 2017, 19:39
An enjoyable stage. Martin rode steadily and it would be nice to see him get a podium.

yeah, he should have that in the bag I guess, sitting half a minute ahead of the guy in 4th. Of course, tomorrow's stage has the potential to change gc a bit, but unlikely that much to his disadvantage I guess.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 11, 2017, 21:30
1. Henao
2. Martin
3. Contador
4. Izagirre
-------------

Message to Alberto: this would be completely unacceptable as final GC results!

 :D
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 11, 2017, 21:35
A more serious comment: Do the results so far indicate that #quickstep Alaphilippe doesn't seem to have the ability for restitution necessary to win WT stage races? He's still young, it might come later - but right now, he seems to fade a little bit more every day in the P-N.

Yes or no?  :slow
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 11, 2017, 23:29
A more serious comment: Do the results so far indicate that #quickstep Alaphilippe doesn't seem to have the ability for restitution necessary to win WT stage races? He's still young, it might come later - but right now, he seems to fade a little bit more every day in the P-N.

Yes or no?  :slow


I'm going to say no. I just think he will always lack the necessary stamina. He emptied himself in the TT but even so he ended up clinging on the following day only to be completely shelled the day after. Something, I don't know what, would have to change
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: search on March 12, 2017, 00:54
mmh, personally I would think that it has more to do with harder nature of stages. And don't forget that it was a super tough week with the windy and rainy very selective first couple of stages. It's the first time ever he is going for gc in a race like this - considering that, he is doing pretty well.

And his main focus are the Ardennes classics for the moment which are still over a month away. I'm pretty sure he'll win WT stage races sooner or later. Even Grand Tours
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 12, 2017, 07:23

I'm going to say no. I just think he will always lack the necessary stamina. He emptied himself in the TT but even so he ended up clinging on the following day only to be completely shelled the day after. Something, I don't know what, would have to change

I don't quite follow you on "stamina": Alaphilippe is already one of the best in long one day races (Olympic games for example). I am looking forward to seeing him in this year's L-B-L and Lombardia. If he is a serious competitor in those kind of races there is nothing wrong with "stamina" but if he can't repeat a good performance on a course 2/3 that length day after day: restitution (ability to restore performance level after effort)  is the problem?

but then I am no native English speaker, maybe there is something lost in translation?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 12, 2017, 07:33
I think Stamina should read recovery

and that comes with time, generally speaking
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 12, 2017, 07:34
PS Today will go 1 or 2 ways

be super exciting or boring as bat sh*t
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 12, 2017, 07:40
I don't quite follow you on "stamina": Alaphilippe is already one of the best in long one day races (Olympic games for example). I am looking forward to seeing him in this year's L-B-L and Lombardia. If he is a serious competitor in those kind of races there is nothing wrong with "stamina" but if he can't repeat a good performance on a course 2/3 that length day after day: restitution (ability to restore performance level after effort)  is the problem?

but then I am no native English speaker, maybe there is something lost in translation?

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part but you've worked out what I mean. I'mm referring to his stamina on a day by day basis. I thnk he'll always be able to pull out a good performance but not to back it up effectively. His time trial was brilliant but he looks like he's been on his knees since.

Mind you I said wiggins could win a week race but never a GT and was proved wrong there. (or was I!)  :angel
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Capt_Cavman on March 12, 2017, 09:24
I think Stamina should read recovery

and that comes with time, generally speaking
Agreed. I suppose the interesting follow up question is whether time is a measure of physiological development or a measure of experience in terms of the correct individualised preparation for the particular race type - probably a bit of both. He might be the type to improve much faster at Sky.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 12, 2017, 09:51
Agreed. I suppose the interesting follow up question is whether time is a measure of physiological development or a measure of experience in terms of the correct individualised preparation for the particular race type - probably a bit of both. He might be the type to improve much faster at Sky.

You might be right about Sky but I'd be reluctant to see such a bright and talented racer just put in harness just for the service of others. Lot's of good racers are disappearing into obscurity there. It always reminds me of the opening to Les Miserables

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G3tCDU-N918/UcbYQD2L27I/AAAAAAAAAW8/arGynMZONxg/s1600/les.png)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 12:34
PS Today will go 1 or 2 ways

be super exciting or boring as bat sh*t
Deja vu time for me I think
Berto goes on Peille, Sky chase him down probably helped by QS. Berto tries again on Eze. In the end nothing changes :P
#quickstep if they were smart would work with Berto as Cousin Dan should outsprint Berto 10 times out of 10 and that would mean they can win the race
But not counting on it

I hope Mr Tony "anything for a ride with Sky" Gallopin will be nowhere near the action :shh
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 12, 2017, 12:49
Deja vu time for me I think
Berto goes on Peille, Sky chase him down probably helped by QS. Berto tries again on Eze. In the end nothing changes :P
#quickstep if they were smart would work with Berto as Cousin Dan should outsprint Berto 10 times out of 10 and that would mean they can win the race
But not counting on it

I hope Mr Tony "anything for a ride with Sky" Gallopin will be nowhere near the action :shh

 :lol
You are like an elephant, Flo. ;)

 Never underestimate the ability of Henao...............................to snatch stage race defeat from the jaws of victory! :D

 Bertie has to try something similar. This time he has the benefit of last year to refine his effort.
I'm not sure which way QS will play it, but I suspect it will be wait and see.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 12, 2017, 13:07
Quickstep though, could send Alaphilippe in the break? I mean nobody's  talking much about them but they are the only team with  2 men in top 5 and could exploit some tactical opportunities the other teams don't have to put Martin in no 1 spot. Martin is quite likely the best rider in the field on this kind of finish, at least if the race was 200 km long. Pantano and Alaphilippe, maybe Henao, may rival that on such a short stage.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 12, 2017, 13:21
:lol
You are like an elephant, Flo. ;)

 Never underestimate the ability of Henao...............................to snatch stage race defeat from the jaws of victory! :D

 Bertie has to try something similar. This time he has the benefit of last year to refine his effort.
I'm not sure which way QS will play it, but I suspect it will be wait and see.

I agree if Henao wins it will be a surprise

aliens might snatch him
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 14:08
I agree if Henao wins it will be a surprise

aliens might snatch him
Lol lol :P
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 12, 2017, 16:08




Great end to a fun edition

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 17:10
Déjà. Vu.  :( :( :(
Totally flipping gutted :( :(
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 17:18
https://twitter.com/Cyivel/status/840964915359805441
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 12, 2017, 18:42
 It's not as if Cobrelli is going to be in a huge race, that will end in a sprint after a climb and a fast descent, next weekend. :s

Aside it was a terrific race, overall, proving once again the the flat stages are fickle things, especially in March.
Today's stage was another out of the top drawer for sheer excitement and entertainment.
For that, we have one rider to thank. So, Chapeau Berto. Brilliant ride.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 20:45
Are you suggesting Colbrelli couldn't have sprinted if Izagirre hadn't pulled?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 12, 2017, 20:52
Are you suggesting Colbrelli couldn't have sprinted if Izagirre hadn't pulled?

 I'm suggesting you should be blaming the very start of the race, rather than looking to apportion blame at the very end........again.
The wind cost Berto over a minute.
Expect a lead group of 20 riders to not race the final kms of a race and you will likely be disappointed, every time.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 12, 2017, 21:35
It's such a non-discussion. Contador fans will be upset Bahrain helped reduce the gap (and decided the race), Sky fans will be happy they helped and will scoff at the suggestion that Bahrain didn't have any reason to work.
Like it or not this is the 2nd year in a row a Sky rider had to be saved by random other riders. Their team is already twice as strong as the others but they'll always be lucky with random idiots riding for 10th overall or 4th on the stage (no WT points BTW).
God knows I love Sonny and also Izagirre but Bahrain lost a fan today (actually two, also Trudgin). We both loved Bahrain but hate them now. Still like the individual riders.
Yes I'm flipping upset but you won't understand. Mock me all you like, call me ridiculous, IDGAF.

Also I'd like to say that Pantano is a monster and it looks like with Felline and Pantano Alberto will finally have the support he deserves and they are LOYAL not like Kreuziger the Backstabber and Majka.

Also I cried after the stage because Berto looked so upset and disappointed in the interview
https://twitter.com/francetvsport/status/840957527332421633
Last year I posted in the PN thread that I was flipping gutted because it was supposed to be his last Paris Nice. We'll see if he returns one more time and I hope he'll either win or be dead last. I can't deal with this 2nd by a couple seconds sh*t anymore.

I saw a tweet by CafeRoubaix which said Berto has 22 stage race wins in his career (not counting stripped wins) and 11 second places - by the way since 2014 he finished 2nd within 10 seconds 6 times. He lost Catalunya twice, Paris-Nice twice and Andalucia twice for a total of 18 seconds. Also he has 7 second places this year - he even finished 2nd in the points classification 1!!! point behind Alaphilippe. I'm crossing my fingers for a win in Pais Vasco or he'll collect like 20 second places and no win. Catalunya has a 40km TTT so he'll be 2 minutes behind Froome and Piti after the first stage. The TDF is a lost cause obviously unless Froome crashes out or is off form. At least he said he will most likely ride the Giro last year so no panic about saying goodbye after his worst year ever just yet.

Also jens_attacks said on twitter Berto was stratospheric on Peille with 7 W/kg for 15 minutes.

Anyway I'm done, I'll just cry myself to sleep and hope his luck turns at some point  :TT

By the way I'm not as upset as I may sound just very frustrated and disappointed.

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Miburo on March 12, 2017, 22:23
6 times 2nd already this year for Contador. God man, and again he gets screwed by another team, last year it was that french guy....

In catalunya he'll get a 40km TTT. What are the spanish people doing that to their own guy? Then again he's from madrid and it's in catalunya.

Will be a hard year :(
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 13, 2017, 06:36
While fans of the accountant might be upset not getting the win

Would you rather he road the race like yesterday and finished 2nd or would rather he just road around collecting a pay check and failing as many do

Sure the win would have been nice, but the stage racer of the generation is going out swinging and making races, I for one will miss AC for rides like yesterday more than dominant wins. Plus it is only March

Once AC goes will will have to hope Chaves takes over the it is better to try and fail, go for it swinging and if you win or not at least you went for it and went hard, rather than being happy with 2nd or 3rd or 5th
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 13, 2017, 07:01
While fans of the accountant might be upset not getting the win

Would you rather he road the race like yesterday and finished 2nd or would rather he just road around collecting a pay check and failing as many do

Sure the win would have been nice, but the stage racer of the generation is going out swinging and making races, I for one will miss AC for rides like yesterday more than dominant wins. Plus it is only March

Once AC goes will will have to hope Chaves takes over the it is better to try and fail, go for it swinging and if you win or not at least you went for it and went hard, rather than being happy with 2nd or 3rd or 5th

I couldn't agree more. That's the second year running he's lit that race up. Lovely attack and great panache
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Trudgin on March 13, 2017, 07:04

But I'm not a fan of Chaves, he will need to do a lot more than flash his "I'm so innocent, and such a nice guy" pearly whites to get me on board...


That may have been Contadors last ever Paris Nice.


He has said this is his last attempt at Tour, so maybe next year, his last year, he is going for the Tirreno Adriatico and the Giro..


Does that not add a little to the bitterness of that defeat yesterday.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 13, 2017, 09:01
But I'm not a fan of Chaves, he will need to do a lot more than flash his "I'm so innocent, and such a nice guy" pearly whites to get me on board...


That may have been Contadors last ever Paris Nice.


He has said this is his last attempt at Tour, so maybe next year, his last year, he is going for the Tirreno Adriatico and the Giro..


Does that not add a little to the bitterness of that defeat yesterday.
But they're not Contador fans so they don't care who wins, they only care about the race. It's hard to grasp for me but I guess it's logical. It does make me slightly angry when people compliment him for making the race because I know how much he hates losing and I doubt it's any consolation that he "made the race". It's almost sad to say to him - hey, you failed to win, but at least you were exciting, right...?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 13, 2017, 09:05
https://twitter.com/Cyclingnewsfeed/status/841189589427605505

seems he would rather ride with style than just ride boring and win

his worlds not mine
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 13, 2017, 09:08
Would you rather he road the race like yesterday and finished 2nd or would rather he just road around collecting a pay check and failing as many do

I'd like him to ride like yesterday and win :( 2 stupid seconds
A more difficult question would be ride like yesterday and finish 2nd or only attack in the final meters and win. I think I'd prefer the latter, honestly.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 13, 2017, 09:10
I'd like him to ride like yesterday and win :( 2 stupid seconds
A more difficult question would be ride like yesterday and finish 2nd or only attack in the final meters and win. I think I'd prefer the latter, honestly.

Sure I can see where you are coming from.
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Flo on March 13, 2017, 09:11
https://twitter.com/Cyclingnewsfeed/status/841189589427605505

seems he would rather ride with style than just ride boring and win

his worlds not mine
Yes but of course what he would like most is to ride with style and win
Did you see how disappointed he was after the stage? I posted the video above.
I'm afraid if he suffers more narrow defeats he'll suffer mentally :( it's hard to deal with disappointment after disappointment. He needs a reward at some point for his hard work else why work so hard? What is the point?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: just some guy on March 13, 2017, 09:24
Yes but of course what he would like most is to ride with style and win
Did you see how disappointed he was after the stage? I posted the video above.
I'm afraid if he suffers more narrow defeats he'll suffer mentally :( it's hard to deal with disappointment after disappointment. He needs a reward at some point for his hard work else why work so hard? What is the point?

IMHO

Because of his age and changed physical ability etc he needs to look at ways to win, most riders would just be happy with 2nd, but he looks at places where he can change races in his advantage, and some times others ie Nairo

I think this shows a tremendous amount of race craft and skill he has lost a lot of explosive and ability to go deep for longer, and dig a little deeper to break riders, now he uses race profile and controlled effort to try and do the same ( a much harder ask) but the results are harder to come by and lets be honest he has not had the team to do it, Pantano will be huge card come July ( hopefully) and they need the Phantom doing the early support plus 1-2 other climber or even Degenkolb willing to get in the early breaks and to start working over Sky early, while it might hurt There are many positives for AC fans   
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Yellow Peril on March 13, 2017, 10:46
I can only speak for myself. It was a bold and exciting move it made for a brilliant watch and was executed by a class rider. It's at times like this that I wish he was half a dozen or so years younger as opposed to someone who may retire at some point very soon.

I think we need a nice piccy of the fella!


(https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/contador-trek-segafredo-2017.jpg)
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Echoes on March 13, 2017, 11:24
Yes but of course what he would like most is to ride with style and win
Did you see how disappointed he was after the stage? I posted the video above.
I'm afraid if he suffers more narrow defeats he'll suffer mentally :( it's hard to deal with disappointment after disappointment. He needs a reward at some point for his hard work else why work so hard? What is the point?

A faculty that most great champions have is that they can be bitterly disappointed in an instant and then regroup, the day after is another day and focus on the following races, past is past. I think that is what distinguishes them from unfulfilled talents. Being able to focus on the following races. Look at Mathieu.  ;) 22 years of age. How upset he was after losing the Worlds. Three days after he won Malderghem, not really of the same standard but he was happy and had fun, enjoyed his popularity and then had a 6 cross winning streak.

With regards to being complimented for making the race, I remember Wellens really disappointed when he lost the Arrow in 2015, Tim doesn't like losing but Sergeant congratulated him on a nice effort. I think Tim appreciated the compliment despite his disappointment.  ;)

Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: AG on March 13, 2017, 11:31
Major incredible kudos tot he man.

I am and will always be a fan ... simply for the class and style and way he rides.  The way he is.

I will ALWAYS prefer someone who will risk it all to try and win over someone who is happy to defend their podium.



Awesome, amazing, wonderful ....
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Trudgin on March 13, 2017, 17:14

You guys... I'm at work in tears..... I wish I had the time to look for emojis :(
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: t-72 on March 13, 2017, 21:28
I am not done with this yet. Lost yesterday's stage due to travel, but recorded it and watched it today. It was pretty much replay of the recording from last year and #trek Alberto Contador now comes across as cycling's Donald Duck for trying so hard and failing with such a narrow margin every time. However - he knew the tactics of the attack from last year and Sky knew how to control it.
#sky Henao's measured effort on the Col d'Eze was quite precisely measured. Some remarks as to how #bahrain Ion Izaguirre helped - I think he probably did (at least in the sprint) but it looked like Henao did more of the work himself on the descent compared to #sky Geraint Thomas last year. A lot has probably been written, tweeted and shouted about this already - but #quickstep Davide de la Cruz also didn't seem very interested in working for Contador (who was going to pass #quickstep Dan Martin). Contador allowed de la Cruz to work,  that was when the gap started to go down.

However: this was not the day when the race was won. It was not the strong climbers of the #sky train that impressed this time (only Henao himself impressed as a climber). It was the flatlanders that made the difference: Luke Rowe, and maybe Christian Knees. On the first stage, they escorted Henao into the first group in the crosswinds. That day Henao scored 55 seconds on Contador, which Contador could not take back. That was the decisive stage. Rowe was also in the front with Henao on day 2, when Contador once again was in chasing group in the crosswinds.

(Kind of like 2015 Tour de France was won on stage 2 in the crosswinds on the dutch coast).

On paper, #trek shouldn't be a bad team in the crosswinds but in practice it seems that Contadors old  squad was better at it. A little homework before the TdF should level the playing field. There are enough good flatlanders on #trek to come up to #tinkoff standard, or not?
Title: Re: Paris - Nice 2017
Post by: Mellow Velo on March 13, 2017, 22:10
Although he got 3rd today, with hindsight, sending Jasper Stuyven to Italy was perhaps a mistake.