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Professional Cycling => Road Races => Topic started by: search on September 11, 2017, 09:17

Title: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: search on September 11, 2017, 09:17
The Italian Autumn Classics

At the far end of the season, Italy takes center stage as the season’s final dramas play out on the southern side of the Alps. It's time for the Italian Autumn Classics again.

The 112-year old Il Lombardia is the centerpiece of the fall calendar — the last of the five monuments and the only one not held in spring. Lombardia is the star, but it is supported by an undercard rich in Italian cycling history and local flavor that is relatively undiluted by the sport’s global push. During the weeks before Lombardia, northern Italy hosts another number of classics ranging from UCI 1.HC to UCI 1.2 status - among them Milano-Torino,  which debuted in 1876, 16 years before La Doyenne, which makes it the oldest race on the professional calendar.
[1]

DATE STATUS RACE
13.09.      1.1      #med   Coppa Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze
14.09.      1.1      #flat   Coppa Bernocchi
16.09.      1.1      #flat   Memorial Marco Pantani
26.09. - 27.09.      2.1      #med   Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini
28.09.      1.1      #med   Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio Città di Peccioli
30.09.      1.HC      #mountain   Giro dell'Emilia
01.10.      1.HC      #med   Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli
01.10.      1.2U      #med   Piccolo Giro di Lombardia
03.10.      1.HC      #med   Tre Valli Varesine
05.10.      1.HC      #mountain   Milano-Torino
07.10      WT      #mountain   Giro di Lombardia

The schedule of races is more or less the same as last year, starting with the two Coppas and with Lombardia as the highlight in the end, which should attract good starting fields to races like the Giro dell'Emilia again.

The "Trittico di Autumno" (consisting of Milano-Torino, Piemonte and Lombardia, brought back by RCS two years ago) is down to two though this year, as the Giro del Piemonte was basically held in June already, as the Italian National Championship. From the GP Industria & Commercio di Prato, initially part of the calendar last year, there's no sign of return unfortunately.

Two newly introduced two-day race Giro della Toscana will remain in the calendar though, basically forming a series of three one day races together with the Coppa Sabatini the day after again, including an overall competition over those three days, called "Memorial Martini".

Unfortunately the Trittico Lombardo is still separated by nearly three weeks now, with Agostoni and Bernocchi right at the start, and Tre Valli Varesine two weeks after, but apart from us no one regarded it as an overall competition anymore anyway, I guess ;).

According to the early schedules, we should get live coverage for Coppa Agostoni, Coppa Bernocchi, Giro dell'Emilia, GP Beghelli, Tre Valli Varesine, Milano-Torino and Il Lombardia - which is pretty amazing, I must say :cool
 1. source: velonews.competitor.com/2015/09/news/bello-autumno-six-cant-miss-italian-classics_386770
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics
Post by: search on September 11, 2017, 09:23
most races are also part of the "Ciclismo Cup" - all but (Piccolo) Lombardia and Milano-Torino, actually. Here are the current standings:

Classifica Individuale

Pos. Gruppo Sportivo Atleta Punti
1       #androni      BERNAL GOMEZ Egan Arley*       137
2       #uae      ULISSI Diego       120
3       #trek      FELLINE Fabio       114
4       #androni      GAVAZZI Francesco       101
5       #astana      ARU Fabio       100
6       #androni      CATTANEO Mattia       96
7       #fantini      CANOLA Marco       87
8       #androni      TORRES AGUDELO Rodolfo       87
9       #ag2r      POZZOVIVO Domenico       82
10       #amore      CELANO Danilo       73


Classifica  a squadre

Pos. Gruppo Sportivo Punti
1       #androni Androni-Sidermec       321
2       #wilier Wilier Triestina-Selle Italia      217
3       #fantini Nippo-Vini Fantini      208
4       #bardiani Bardiani-CSF      120
5       #uae UAE Abu Dhabi      111
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: search on September 11, 2017, 09:49
71° Coppa Ugo Agostoni - GP Banca Popolare di Milano

Wednesday, September 13th

The season of Italian Autumn Classics starts on Wednesday with the first race of the Trittico Lombardo, the Coppa Ugo Agostoni - Giro delle Brianze - GP Banca Popolare di Milano. In recent years, climbers like Rebellin or Sella, as well as alrounders like Pozzato and Colbrelli, but also more or less pure sprinters like Modolo or Bonifazio were victorious at the finish in Lissone.

1st 2nd 3rd
2016      *it   COLBRELLI Sonny      *it   ULISSI Diego      *it   GAVAZZI Francesco
2015      *it   REBELLIN Davide      *it   NIBALI Vincenzo      *it   BONIFAZIO Niccolo
2014      *it   BONIFAZIO Niccolo      *si   BOLE Grega      *it   PONZI Simone
2013      *it   POZZATO Filippo      *it   PONZI Simone      *it   ZAMPARELLA Marco
2012      *it   SELLA Emanuele      *it   BALIANI Fortunato      *it   DI LUCA Danilo

Two years ago the organizers hardened up the parcours though to attract Nibali and give him the opportunity to prepare for the Richmond World Championships after his exclusion from the Vuelta - and they sticked to that approach. So the riders still have to tackle four laps on the hilly circuit around Lissolo instead of one in previous editions:

(http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Coppa-Agostoni-2017_planimetria.png) (http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Coppa-Agostoni-2017_altimetria.jpg)

That circuit is not super hard though, last year quite a lot of sprinter managed to close the gap on the flat run-in to the finish, so it should be an open race, which favors attacking riders, but leaves the sprinter teams some hope as well.

The provisional start list (http://www.coppaagostoni.it/coppa-agostoni/iscritti/) looks good:

Seems like Finetto will be on double duties for #delko and #teamit :P. What's up with #cajarural Celano though?

The only non-Italian winner in the past 14 years was Linus Gerdemann in 2008 - and looking at that list of participants, that's unlikely to change. But #fortuneo Romain Hardy is in good shape though and recently won the Tour du Doubs and Albasini looked good in Montreal, so who knows.

The race will be broadcasted live for the first time (as far as I can remember) on Rai Sport, PMG Sport and Eurosport (among others) on from ~13:45 cest
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: Leadbelly on September 11, 2017, 10:36
What's up with #cajarural Celano though?

He missed Limousin due to a fever, so it's possible he's still recovering from that.

There could be other explanations of course. :shh
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 11, 2017, 15:57
 The Bike Channel UK also has both races live, this week.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 12, 2017, 20:22
The Bike Channel UK also has both races live, this week.

The Bike Channel UK ceased transmission, yesterday.  :(
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on September 13, 2017, 14:48
Strange one that.

I thought they would have a decent commercial deal set up and utilise Sky and Sky Italia to keep them going.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: Leadbelly on September 14, 2017, 18:41
https://twitter.com/BrainOnWheels/status/908338331775373313

Boivin was meant to be leading out Raim (who got cramp).
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Coppa Agostoni)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 25, 2017, 08:03
 Looking at this week's races via Rai's tv grid, Giro della Toscana, Coppa Sabatini and GP Beghelli have highlights only, this week.
I mention the fact because first reports suggested that GP Beghelli would be shown live. In fact it has just 40 minutes of highlights on Sunday evening.

I can confirm that the Giro dell'Emilia does have live coverage: 15-30 to 17-15cet.

I expect the following week's races all to have live coverage, as usual.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 25, 2017, 11:32
Memorial Martini: Giro della Toscana & Coppa Sabatini

Tueday 26th to Thursday 28th

After the debut last year, the Memorial Alfredo Martini returns in a similar fashion, consisting of the two day 2.1 race Giro della Toscana and the 1.1 race Coppa Sabatini the day after:

The parcours of the Giro della Toscana is way harder this time though, especially with the (~9k at 5% average) mountain top finish on day 2.

Giro della Toscana - Stage 1: Pontedera - Pontedera (181,8 km / 49,9 km + 2x 54,4 km + 3x 7,7 km)

(http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092113360-hoehenprofil-giro-della-toscana---memorial-alfredo-martini-2017---etappe-1-erster-rundkurs.jpg) (http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092128661-hoehenprofil-giro-della-toscana---memorial-alfredo-martini-2017---etappe-1-zweiter-rundkurs.jpg)

Giro della Toscana - Stage 2: Lajatico - Volterra (165,1 km)

(http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092117245-hoehenprofil-giro-della-toscana---memorial-alfredo-martini-2017---etappe-2.jpg) (http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092124537-hoehenprofil-giro-della-toscana---memorial-alfredo-martini-2017---etappe-2-letzte-3-km.jpg)

Coppa Sabatini: Peccioli - Peccioli (195,9 km / 57,6 km + 3x 21,7 km + 6x 12,2 km)

(http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092114178-hoehenprofil-coppa-sabatini---gran-premio-cittagrave-di-peccioli-2017-erste-576-km.jpg) (http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092126791-hoehenprofil-coppa-sabatini---gran-premio-cittagrave-di-peccioli-2017-erster-rundkurs.jpg) (http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092132702-hoehenprofil-coppa-sabatini---gran-premio-cittagrave-di-peccioli-2017-zweiter-rundkurs.jpg)

Additional to the normal classification by time in the Giro della Toscana, there's a combined points classification for both races. 1 to 50 points are awarded to the Top 20 each of the three days, and the rider with the most points takes the overall.

(https://i.imgur.com/Sr8Snus.png)

Participating teams:

A full start list doesn't seem to be available yet, but among those riders confirmed to participate are big names like #astana Vincenzo Nibali, #bahrain Sonny Colbrelli, #bahrain Enrico Gasparotto, #fantini Damiano Cunego, #dimension Mark Cavendish and #dimension Steve Cummings.

As MV mentioned above, highlights on tv will be broadcasted in the evening each day.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 25, 2017, 18:03
~pdf Start List (http://www.girodellatoscana.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GDT-Partenti-25-09-h17-10.pdf)

so we have...
...which (in numbers) is less than expected to be honest. But almost all teams are sending their big players :cool

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 26, 2017, 15:05
#dimension Cummings won the first stage ahead of Bernal, Backaert & Nibali. Colbrelli came first in the sprint from the peloton half a minute behind or so.



Highlights will be broadcasted online on PMG Sport at 17:00
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 26, 2017, 18:13
 I may watch it later, as Rai aren't showing these highlights until after midnight.
I just went browsing French Eurosport 2, to see what coverage they had live of Vendee on Sunday and what do you know?
Their schedule does in fact show the GP Beghelli live at 15-00cet for 90 minutes. (Vendee live to follow)
Also showing on the Eurosport player.
So, I would assume PMG Sport will have the race live.

Only Rai missing out then.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 26, 2017, 18:32
unfortunately they seem to have missed most of the action today as the decisive move came pretty early.

those 50 minutes of the 4 leaders holding back the peloton are now available online though: http://www.pmgsport.it/video/diretta-streaming-ciclismo-cup-giro-della-toscana-live/

Post Merge: September 26, 2017, 18:43
as PCS doesn't seem to have the full results yet...here (http://ciclismo.ficr.it/default.asp?p=Ym9keV9yZXN1bHRzLmFzcD9wX0Fubm89MjAxNyZwX0NvZGljZT0xMSZwX0dhcmE9MSZwX1RhcHBhPTEmcF9MaW5ndWE9SVRB) they are, by the way

so Cavendish, Celano, Atapuma, Meintjes, Cunego, Bongiorno and so on all finished way down the order. Strong climbers who finished in the first group and may have a chance to still challenge Bernal and Nibali for the overall tomorrow are Guillaume Martin, Ciccone, Durasek and Sepulveda... but most likely it will be between those two only
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 26, 2017, 18:59
@lasterkateburua did proper profiles for the race by the way...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkskghW0AITCVo.jpg:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkyfF2WkAAx0Xa.jpg:large)

... and also an interactive one for tomorrow



so the final climb is not particularly steep. Cummings sounded skeptical in the post-race interview today, but maybe he does stand a small chance as well
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: Leadbelly on September 27, 2017, 11:35
https://twitter.com/WilierSelleIta/status/912988590292049920

Break: Federico Zurlo (UAE Team Emirates), Alessandro Tonelli (Bardiani-CSF), Jacopo Mosca (Wilier-Selle Italia), Danilo Napolitano (Wanty-Groupe Gobert), Igor Boev (Gazprom-RusVelo), Matthias Krizek (Tirol Cycling Team), Fabricio Ferrari e Josu Zabala (CajaRural-RGA)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: Leadbelly on September 27, 2017, 14:14
https://twitter.com/TeamWantyGobert/status/913027553924993025
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: Leadbelly on September 27, 2017, 14:33
https://twitter.com/TeamDiData/status/913031748015083520

Is Cummings in there? Not sure I see him, but he must be.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 27, 2017, 15:02
#wanty Guillaume Martin wins the stage ahead of Visconti & Cattaneo

https://twitter.com/edoardochiozzi/status/913040092490543105

looks like the gap was big enough to take the overall as well
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 27, 2017, 19:25
that was a pretty good showing by #wanty Martin, he just destroyed Visconti from the front. Strong performance by #cajarural Ferrari as well, who still finished 4th after being in the breakaway all day



50 minutes of highlights are available on PMG Sport's website (http://www.pmgsport.it/video/diretta-streaming-ciclismo-cup-giro-della-toscana-27-settembre/)

Here are the Memorial Martini standing after 2 of 3 race days:

GdT #1 GdT #2 C.S. TOTAL
1      #dimension   CUMMINGS Stephen      50                        50
1      #wanty   MARTIN Guillaume            50                  50
3      #androni   BERNAL GOMEZ Egan Arley      30      13                  43
4      #bahrain   NIBALI Vincenzo      17      14                  31
5      #bahrain   VISCONTI Giovanni            30                  30
6      #wanty   BACKAERT Frederik      20      7                  27
7      #nippo   CANOLA Marco      11      15                  26
8      #androni   CATTANEO Mattia            20                  20
9      #cajarural   PRADES REVERTER Eduard      10      9                  19
10      #fortuneo   BOUET Maxime      7      11                  18
11      #cajarural   FERRARI Fabricio            17                  17
12      #fortuneo   DELAPLACE Anthony            16                  16
12      #bahrain   COLBRELLI Sonny      16                        16
14      #wanty   PASQUALON Andrea      15                        15
15      #uae   KUMP Marko      14                        14
16      #fortuneo   FONSECA Armindo      13                        13
16      #sangemini   GAFFURINI Nicola      1      12                  13
18      #androni   GAVAZZI Francesco      12                        12
18      #bardiani   ROTA Lorenzo      8      4                  12
20      #wilier   MARTINEZ POVEDA Daniel Felipe            10                  10
20      #tirol   SCHÖNBERGER Sebastian      4      6                  10
22      #wilier   BUSATO Matteo      9                        9
23      #cajarural   LASTRA MARTINEZ Jonathan            8                  8
24      #wanty   MINNAARD Marco      2      5                  7
25      #gazprom   TRUSOV Nikolay      6                        6
26      #bahrain   BOLE Grega      5                        5
27      #bardiani   CICCONE Giulio            3                  3
27      #bardiani   VELASCO Simone      3                        3
29      #bahrain   NIBALI Antonio            2                  2
30      #gazprom   ARSLANOV Ildar            1                  1

so it's still pretty open, theoretically even riders with 0 points so far could still win
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 28, 2017, 08:55
~pdf Start List (http://www.girodellatoscana.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GDT-Partenti-25-09-h17-10.pdf)

so we have...
  • #bahrain Bahrain Merida
  • #dimension Dimension Data
  • #uae UAE Team Emirates
  • #bardiani Bardiani CSF
  • #wilier Wilier Triestina - Selle Italia
  • #nippo Nippo - Vini Fantini
  • #androni Androni-Sidermec-Bottecchia
  • #academy Israel Cycling Academy
  • #wanty Wanty - Groupe Gobert
  • #gazprom Gazprom - Rusvelo
  • #cajarural Caja Rural - Seguros RGA
  • #fortuneo Fortuneo - Oscaro
  • #tirol Tirol Cycling Team
  • #damico d'Amico Utensilnord
  • #sangemini Sangemini - MG.Kvis
...which (in numbers) is less than expected to be honest. But almost all teams are sending their big players :cool

Spoiler (hover to show)

+ #sky Team Sky for Coppa Sabatini today, with a good team including Viviani, Rosa, Tao and Kennaugh. And #uae UAE adds Ulissi to their roster for the race. Sbaragli at #dimension Dimension Data is another strong addition :cool
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 28, 2017, 15:41
Pasqualon doubles up for #wanty Wanty!: Very nice!

(https://i.imgur.com/QcbjqHJ.jpg)



only the Top 5 are published so far, but those 50 points should be enough for Pasqualon to also secure the win of the Memorial Martini overall rankings :cool
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 28, 2017, 16:52
Cobrelli not a happy bunny, as Pasqualon's back wheel appeared to clip him, as the Wanty man slightly altered his line in beginning his sprint.
However, it was just a racing incident. So tough cheese, Sonny.
No helicopter shots, this year for the first time in a while.
I assume tv has to cough up quite a lot a money, with all these races now in a line on the calendar.

I figured out why Eurosport in the UK aren't showing any of these races, until Milano-Torino.
The rights were with the Bike Channel and then they went bankrupt.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Memorial Martini)
Post by: search on September 29, 2017, 09:38
only the Top 5 are published so far, but those 50 points should be enough for Pasqualon to also secure the win of the Memorial Martini overall rankings :cool

Martin came close, but Pasqualon beats him by one point in a #wanty Wanty 1-2

GdT #1 GdT #2 C.S. TOTAL
1      #wanty   PASQUALON Andrea      15            50            65
2      #wanty   MARTIN Guillaume            50      14            64
3      #dimension   CUMMINGS Stephen      50                        50
4      #bahrain   COLBRELLI Sonny      16            30            46
5      #androni   BERNAL GOMEZ Egan Arley      30      13                  43
6      #nippo   CANOLA Marco      11      15      13            39
7      #cajarural   PRADES REVERTER Eduard      10      9      16            35
8      #bahrain   VISCONTI Giovanni            30      3            33
9      #androni   GAVAZZI Francesco      12            20            32
10      #bahrain   NIBALI Vincenzo      17      14                  31
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Giro dell'Emilia)
Post by: search on September 29, 2017, 10:55
(http://www.wilierprocycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/giro_emilia.jpg)
Giro dell'Emilia

Saturday, September 30th

Tomorrow already there's the next race on the schedule, the 100th edition of the beautiful Giro dell'Emilia. Now finally back to where it belongs in the order of races, we again can see a strong field fighting for the win on the challenging circuit around San Luca.

1st 2nd 3rd
2016      *co   CHAVES Esteban      *fr   BARDET Romain      *co   URAN Rigoberto
2015      *be   BAKELANTS Jan      *it   FEDI Andrea      *es   MADRAZO Angel
2014      *it   REBELLIN Davide      *es   MADRAZO Angel      *it   PELLIZOTTI Franco
2013      *it   ULISSI Diego      *dk   SØRENSEN Chris Anker      *it   VILLELLA Davide
2012      *co   QUINTANA Nairo      *se   KESSIAKOFF Fredrik      *it   PELLIZOTTI Franco

as you can see, this has always been a race for the strong climbers, and we expect the same tomorrow:

(http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092112654-hoehenprofil-giro-dell-emilia-2017.jpg) (http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092126816-hoehenprofil-giro-dell-emilia-2017-letzte-3-km.jpg)

interactive profile via @raffilpt



~pdf Roadbook (http://www.gsemilia.it/images/pdf/emiliauomini2017_guida.pdf)

Twelve WT teams and most of the stronger PCT outfits will line up for the race:
...with plenty of strong riders like #ag2r Bakelants, Pozzovivo & Vuillermoz, #androni Bernal & Cattaneo, #astana Aru & Bilbao, #bahrain Nibali & Visconti, #bmc Hermans & Teuns, #cannondale Uran, Slagter, Villella & Formolo, #cofidis Simon, #fdj Pinot & Reichenbach, #gazprom Firsanov, #orica Chaves, Kreuziger & Adam Yates, #dimension Cummings & Anton, #sky Henao, Rosa & Moscon, #trek Pantano, #uae Conti & Ulissi, #wanty Martin, if the ~pdf provisional start list (http://www.gsemilia.it/images/pdf/emilia17-iscritti.pdf) is to be believed.

For the first time since 2012 (I think) the race will be broadcasted live, with both Rai Sport and Eurosport starting their coverage at 15:30 cest
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Giro dell'Emilia)
Post by: search on September 29, 2017, 16:40
~pdf Final Start List (http://www.gsemilia.it/images/pdf/emiliauomini2017partenti.pdf)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Giro dell\'Emilia)
Post by: Mellow Velo on September 29, 2017, 17:08
PMG reckon they will have live coverage from 15-10cet, but that probably includes a good 10 minutes of Italian chin wagging. :D

Early startlist for Tre Valli suggest 13 WT teams and load of PC teams, plus an Italian squad. Sunweb bringing all their big guns and Movistar have both Quintanas penciled in.

http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html?detp=view&_ap=startlijst&editie_idd=MjgxNTY=

Post Merge: September 29, 2017, 20:51
Good news!

Eurosport in the UK now have live coverage of Emilia, Beghelli and Tre Valli to tv schedules. :)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Giro dell'Emilia)
Post by: search on September 30, 2017, 22:30
that was quite good... let's hope :chaves is alright though



In the end Visconti may not have won without the crash, but well... it still was a gutsy move, and a deserved victory

A treplay of the live coverage is available on PMG Sport's Website (http://www.pmgsport.it/video/visconti-fa-il-nibali-e-vince-il-giro-dellemilia/)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Giro dell'Emilia)
Post by: hiero on October 01, 2017, 01:13
So that was Chaves who went down at 4km out? Nasty crash - he whacked his head on the pavement twice, but the helmet should have taken care of him on that. Still, he could have a concussion. The crash was a bit surprising - he slipped out on something in the road - dry conditions - road looking good but rough - not in the best repair. Maybe it was change in the pavement and a loss of grip.

Thanks for the link to PMG - nice to have the coverage.

Nicely done by Bahrain. Visconti pretty thrilled with his win!

And nicely done by the race organization. They really put on the dog. Lookin' good.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (GP Beghelli)
Post by: search on October 01, 2017, 10:22
Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli

Sunday, October 1st

One for the sprinters today...

(http://ticker.live-radsport.ch/images/17092112904-hoehenprofil-gran-premio-bruno-beghelli-2017.jpg)

Same teams as yesterday, apart from Cycling Academy replacing Movistar
~pdf Start List (http://www.gsemilia.it/images/pdf/begh17u-partentiok.pdf)

Live on Eurosport 2 at 14:45, PMG Sport 20 minutes earlier
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (GP Beghelli)
Post by: search on October 02, 2017, 08:36
One for the sprinters today...
or not ;). Lulu managed to take it with a late attack, and also a second, bigger group was only caught on the line



if anyone wants to watch, there's the complete re-live on PMG Sport's website (http://www.pmgsport.it/video/sanchez-anticipa-tutti-e-si-prende-il-gp-bruno-beghelli/)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Tre Valli Varesine)
Post by: search on October 02, 2017, 09:20
(http://www.trevallivaresine.com/allegati/2017_020_TRE_VALLI_VARESINE_2017/leaflet_trevallivaresine_2017.jpg)
Tre Valli Varesine

Tuesday, October 3rd

The next race is tomorrow's 97th edition of the Tre Valli Varesini, the third and final race of the Trittico Lombardo. The parcours seems to be more or less the same as last year, with nine laps on the twisty and not too easy circuit from the 2008 World Championships in the end.

(https://i.imgur.com/JMaHbyp.jpg)
~pdf roadbook (http://www.trevallivaresine.com/allegati/2017_020_TRE_VALLI_VARESINE_2017/Brochure_Tre_Valli_Varesine_2017.pdf)

Usually it's a very open race where the winner either comes from a late attack or a small sprint

YEAR 1st 2nd 3rd
2016      *it COLBRELLI Sonny      *ru ULISSI Diego      *it GAVAZZI Francesco
2015      *it NIBALI Vincenzo      *ru FIRSANOV Sergey      *it NIZZOLO Giacomo
2014      *ch ALBASINI Michael      *it COLBRELLI Sonny      *it POZZATO Filippo
2013      *hr DURASEK Kristijan      *it BONGIORNO Manuel      *ru KOLOBNEV Alexandr
2012      *ca VEILLEUX David      *it PALINI Andrea      *it DI LUCA Danilo

There seems to be no provisional start list available yet, but the list of participating teams looks really good:
Same as last year, the race will be live on Rai 3, Eurosport, and others
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Tre Valli Varesine)
Post by: search on October 02, 2017, 09:38
the Italian Cycling Federation lists Sonny Colbrelli as the winner of the Trittico Lombardo in 2016, so although there is basically no information given, it seems like there's still an overall classification for the the two Coppas and Tre Valli, although there are over two weeks between them now.

Assuming the points scheme is the same as usual, here is what the standings look like at the moment:

RANK C.A. C.B. Tre Valli TOTAL
1.      #orica ALBASINI Michael      15pt      8pt                  23pt
2.      #bahrain COLBRELLI Sonny            15pt                  15pt
3.      #academy BOIVIN Guillaume            12pt                  12pt
3.      #fantini CANOLA Marco      12pt                        12pt
5.      #androni GAVAZZI Francesco      10pt                        10pt
      #uae MODOLO Sacha            10pt      DNS            10pt
6.      #cannondale BETTIOL Alberto      8pt                        8pt
      #ccc PONZI Simone      6pt            DNS            6pt
7.      #sky VIVIANI Elia            6pt                  6pt
      #gm TIZZA Marco      5pt            DNS            5pt
      #uae CONSONNI Simone            5pt      DNS            5pt
8.      #bardiani BARBIN Enrico      4pt                        4pt
      #bora ARCHBOLD Shane            4pt      DNS            4pt
9.      #academy RÄIM Mihkel            3pt                  3pt
9.      #sangemini GAFFURINI Nicola      3pt                        3pt
11.      #cajarural PRADES REVERTER Eduard            2pt                  2pt
      #delko FINETTO Mauro      2pt            DNS            2pt
13.      #androni BALLERINI Davide            1pt                  1pt
13.      #cajarural LASTRA MARTINEZ Jonathan      1pt                        1pt

so it's looking quite good for Albasini to win il diamante, but Colbrelli is not too far behind
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Tre Valli Varesine)
Post by: Mellow Velo on October 02, 2017, 16:20
PCS very slow to come up with a provisional startlist, but there is one available from Cyclingfever.
And what a star studded one it is, this year.:-

http://www.cyclingfever.com/editie.html?detp=view&_ap=startlijst&editie_idd=MjgxNTY=

 #sunweb Dumoulin, Kelderman, Matthews,  #bahrain Nibali, Cobrelli,  #sky Kwiatkowski, Poels, Henao, Moscon,  #movistar Quintana,  #orica Albasini,  #cannondale Uran, Formolo, #astana Aru,  #bora Majka,  #ag2r Pozzovivo, Latour, Bakelants,  #uae Ulissi, Costa,  #fdj Pinot.............
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Tre Valli Varesine)
Post by: Leadbelly on October 03, 2017, 20:48
https://twitter.com/Cicloweb_it/status/915267797613195266

Even with Bernal leaving I think they're still going to have the best squad in 2018 of the Italian PCTs. A Giro invite is well deserved.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Tre Valli Varesine)
Post by: search on October 04, 2017, 09:56
I missed most of the early parts of the race, but the finish was quite good I must say, when it totally exploded during the final lap. Nibali went clear first, Pinot closed the gap and Geniez came back during the final km and took the win. Ulissi was about to return as well, but didn't have anything left for the sprint.



Full re-live on PMG Sport (http://www.pmgsport.it/video/ciclismo-ciclismo-cup-tre-valli-varesine-on-demand/)

Albasini came only 10th today, but as no one who was left in contential scored points at all, he thereby easily secured the overall victory of the Trittico Lombardo

RANK C.A. C.B. Tre Valli TOTAL
1.      #orica ALBASINI Michael      15pt      8pt      1pt            24pt
2.      #ag2r GENIEZ Alexandre                  15pt            15pt
2.      #bahrain COLBRELLI Sonny            15pt                  15pt
4.      #fdj PINOT Thibaut                  12pt            12pt
4.      #academy BOIVIN Guillaume            12pt                  12pt
4.      #fantini CANOLA Marco      12pt                        12pt
7.      #bahrain NIBALI Vincenzo                  10pt            10pt
7.      #androni GAVAZZI Francesco      10pt                        10pt
      #uae MODOLO Sacha            10pt      DNS            10pt
10.      #uae ULISSI Diego                  8pt            8pt
      #cannondale BETTIOL Alberto      8pt                        8pt
11.      #cannondale VILLELLA Davide                  6pt            6pt
      #ccc PONZI Simone      6pt            DNS            6pt
      #sky VIVIANI Elia            6pt      DNS            6pt
12.      #sunweb OOMEN Sam                  5pt            5pt
      #gm TIZZA Marco      5pt            DNS            5pt
      #uae CONSONNI Simone            5pt      DNS            5pt
13.      #sky MOSCON Gianni                  4pt            4pt
13.      #bardiani BARBIN Enrico      4pt                        4pt
      #bora ARCHBOLD Shane            4pt      DNS            4pt

he got an award on the podium, so the overall classification definitely still exists - but they don't seem to hand out a diamond anymore

(https://i.imgur.com/z3jKnD2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/irB1mrn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: search on October 04, 2017, 10:20
(http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/themes/milanotorino/img/logo.png)
Milano-Torino

Thursday, October 5th

Next up is Milano Torino tomorrow, the first of the classics organized by RCS. Here is what they said about the race in their press release:

(https://i.imgur.com/4NYmqR1.jpg)
The first RCS Sport Autumn Classics will be raced on 5 October on an almost identical course to the last edition, when Miguel Angel Lopez won from Michael Woods and Rigoberto Uran. The race starts at San Giuliano Milanese (Sesto Ulteriano) and finishes on the Colle di Superga (climbed twice) after 186km.

Now at its 98th edition – but older than any other bicycle race, having been first run in 1876 – Milano-Torino is 141 years old. Previously won by many great cycling champions, this race – organised by RCS Sport/La Gazzetta dello Sport – is an international level Classic end of season cycling battle. The last edition was won by Miguel Angel Lopez with an attack on the ramps of the Colle di Superga.


(http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MI-TO_2017_plan.jpg)
The route starts in San Giuliano Milanese (Sesto Ulteriano) and rolls across the Po Valley along flat roads, all the way through the Vigevano and Lomellina plains, up to Casale Monferrato, where the race profile becomes wavier, with gentle climbs and descents that lead to the final circuit.
The route rolls past San Mauro Torinese and all along the Po River in Corso Casale, where it takes in the first climb to the Basilica of Superga. The road then drops down into Rivodora on a technical descent (diverting 600 metres before the finish) that leads back to San Mauro. Here the route goes up again, all the way to the finish, with gradients exceeding 10%. The fixed feed zone is in Casale Monferrato (km 91-94).


(http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MI-TO_2017_alt.jpg)
~pdf roadbook (http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/GARIBALDI_MITO_2017-DEF-web.pdf)

(http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MI-TO_2017_ukm.jpg)
The last 5km (to be covered twice, with the exception of the final 600m) start in Torino, in Corso Casale, at the foot of the climb that leads to the Basilica of Superga. The average gradient is 9.1%, with a mid-climb peak of 14% and long stretches with 10% gradients. There is a left-hand U-turn 600m before the finish that leads to a short 8.2% climb, with one last bend 50m before the finish, on 7m wide asphalt road.

The 19 teams (14 UCI WorldTeams and 5 UCI Professional Continental Teams) of eight riders who will participate in 98th Milano-Torino are:
~pdf provisional start list (http://static2.milanotorino.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Iscritti-al-29-09.pdf)

Many of the top names in professional cycling will be at the start of the 98th edition of Milano-Torino – the oldest Classic bicycle race, having been first run in 1876. Organised by RCS Sport/La Gazzetta dello Sport, its last edition was won by Miguel Angel Lopez, who will be challenged by, among others, his teammate Fabio Aru (Astana Pro Team), Giro d'Italia winner Tom Dumoulin and Tour de France mountains classification winner Warren Barguil (Team Sunweb), Giro runner-up Nairo Quintana (Movistar Team), Tour de France runner-up Rigoberto Uran (Cannondale Drapac Professional Cycling Team), Milano-Sanremo winner Michal Kwiatkowski and his teammate Mikel Landa (Team Sky) and others including Esteban Chaves and Adam Yates (Orica - Scott), Steven Kruijswijk and Primoz Roglic (Team Lotto NL - Jumbo), Daniel Martin and Julian Alaphilippe (Quick - Step Floors) and Thibaut Pinot (FDJ).

Live coverage will start at ~14:45 on Eurosport, Rai Sport and others
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Not My Circus on October 04, 2017, 11:21
I missed most of the early parts of the race, but the finish was quite good I must say, when it totally exploded during the final lap. Nibali went clear first, Pinot closed the gap and Geniez came back during the final km and took the win. Ulissi was about to return as well, but didn't have anything left for the sprint.

I really enjoy watching this race and the way the attacks just keep coming. Nibali's attack was sharp and on point, Pinot was all over his bike to get back to him. The pair worked well together, each taking the front. When I saw Ulissi cross the gap, I'd have laid money on that being the winning move. But I'd discounted Geniez and his perfect timing - as had Pinot I suspect.

The Reichenbach/Moscon incident left a sour taste. There's a rider that needs to take a good, hard look at himself in the off season. It seems unlikely to me that FDJ would make such a direct accusation unless they were sure. I have a feeling we'll never get to the bottom of this, it seems the incident was not captured either by TV or mobile camera. Neither party have commented directly after Moscon's tweet yesterday hoping Reichenbach was OK. However, this from CN gives a quote from GM to La Gazzetta dello Sport which smacks a little of 'It wasn't me Guv - honest'

https://twitter.com/Cyclingnewsfeed/status/915513118494687232

“It’s not true. It’s nothing to do with me. We were on a section of rough road and Reichenbach’s hands slipped from his handlebars. I’ve never spoken to him in my life.”

Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Echoes on October 04, 2017, 14:02
I've tended to defend Gianni Moscon thus far since the Tour of Romandy, not because I defend racism, of course (hope you won't accuse me of that) but because I tended to think he unconsciously vented an unfortunate insult in a quick-second reaction after a dangerous manoeuvre by Kevin Reza in the leadout of a sprint, an insult that might not even have a racial connotation (or did it, we do not know).

But vengeance is something I cannot possibly approve of. Not more than racism but in this case it would be a conscious act on his part. There would be no excuse and it's a very serious/grave affair. It would be so sad and I think we should first keep our good measures as long as we don't have tangible evidence.

But it would be so dreadful that I don't even wish to think it really happen, to be honest.  :o :(
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Caruut on October 04, 2017, 14:47
I've tended to defend Gianni Moscon thus far since the Tour of Romandy, not because I defend racism, of course (hope you won't accuse me of that) but because I tended to think he unconsciously vented an unfortunate insult in a quick-second reaction after a dangerous manoeuvre by Kevin Reza in the leadout of a sprint, an insult that might not even have a racial connotation (or did it, we do not know).

But vengeance is something I cannot possibly approve of. Not more than racism but in this case it would be a conscious act on his part. There would be no excuse and it's a very serious/grave affair. It would be so sad and I think we should first keep our good measures as long as we don't have tangible evidence.

But it would be so dreadful that I don't even wish to think it really happen, to be honest.  :o :(

Do we know if there is anything specific he wants vengeance against Reichenbach for?
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: search on October 04, 2017, 14:48
Do we know if there is anything specific he wants vengeance against Reichenbach for?

Back in April Reichenbach was the one who made in public that Moscon racially abused Kevin Reza
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Caruut on October 04, 2017, 15:32
Back in April Reichenbach was the one who made in public that Moscon racially abused Kevin Reza

Ah right, did not remember the details beyond it being Reza and Moscon.

Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Mellow Velo on October 04, 2017, 15:35
 I think I'll reserve judgement until more is known.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: t-72 on October 05, 2017, 22:04
I will judge willingly: Milano-Torrino is a perfect Thursday race (wish someone could follow Rigo for a more intense finish though, as in Quickstep could have saved Julian for the final lap. )
This race's recipe is almost like a Vuelta stage, but better, because one-day races are.

The Italian fall classics should be cultivated as the fall equivalent of the Belgian spring classics. It is a lot of good one day races!
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: search on October 06, 2017, 08:14
yes, exactly  :)

...and tomorrow (not Sunday!) there is Lombardia. Anyone interested to put together a real preview or shall be just squeeze it in here?
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Milano-Torino)
Post by: Mellow Velo on October 06, 2017, 11:06
yes, exactly  :)

...and tomorrow (not Sunday!) there is Lombardia. Anyone interested to put together a real preview or shall be just squeeze it in here?

I'm doing a similar thread elsewhere and that lazy lot will be having it in the same thread, like it or not. ;)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: search on October 06, 2017, 13:35
(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/themes/illombardia/img/logo.png)
Giro di Lombardia[1]

Saturday, October 7th

(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lombardia_2017_plan-1.jpg)
On Saturday 7 October, the 111th edition of Il Lombardia will start from Bergamo and arrive in Como after 247km. The "Classic of the Dead Leaves", the last Classic Monument race of the season, will run on the same route as the 2015 edition, when Vincenzo Nibali rode to a solo victory.

(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lomb_17_S01_Gallo_web.jpg)
(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lomb_17_S02_Ghisallo_web.jpg)
(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lomb_17_S03_Sormano_web.jpg)
(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lomb_17_S04_Civiglio_web-1.jpg)
A very selective route with six climbs and 4,000 meters of vertical elevation. The first climb, Colle Gallo, is followed by Colle Brianza; and after the town of Onno the riders climb the Madonna del Ghisallo, followed by the Muro di Sormano. After passing the Colma di Sormano the race descends to Nesso and onto the last two climbs: Civiglio and San Fermo della Battaglia, before reaching the finish line on Lungo Lario Trento e Trieste in Como


The race sets off from Bergamo, southbound. The route initially leads through the Bergamo plain (over the first 40km), and then up along the Val Cavallina, all the way to Casazza, to tackle the first climb of this race: Colle Gallo (763m). A fast-running descent leads back from Val Seriana to Bergamo; here the route goes back on flat roads and eventually arrives in Brianza. The course passes briefly across Colle Brianza (533m) and descends into Pescate, then heads for Valmadrera and Oggiono. Finally, it rolls past Pusiano and Asso, and drops down into Onno, heading for Bellagio, where the Ghisallo climb (754m) begins. The climb has a maximum 14% gradient, on a wide road, with several hairpins

The descent runs quickly on long, straight stretches up to Maglio, where the Colma di Sormano climb (1,124m) begins abruptly after a right-hand bend. After some kilometres with moderate gradients, a few hundred metres past Sormano, the route turns left to tackle the Muro di Sormano (2km at a 15% gradient). The road is tight and very steep, and it runs partly through the woods, with very narrow hairpins and sharp gradients exceeding 25% and reaching almost 30% after about 1,000 metres. After clearing the Colma, the road climbs down into Nesso (initially a false-flat drag, followed by a very technical descent with several hairpins on a narrowed roadway). Here, the route takes the coastal road that leads to Como. A harsh climb up to Civiglio follows (614m), with steady 10% gradients (the roadway is markedly narrowed at the top of the climb); the route then drops down, runs through Como again, and then heads for the final climb in San Fermo della Battaglia (397m). There are two feed zones: the first in San Sosimo (km 112-115) and the second in Onno (km 182-185).


(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lombardia_2017_alt.jpg) (http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lombardia_2017_ukm_web-1024x686.jpg)
~pdf roadbook (http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/GARIBALDI_LOMBARDIA-DEF-web.pdf)

(http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Lombardia_2017_ARR_web-1024x686.jpg)
The last 10km begin in urban Como and run along wide avenues, up to the railway underpass, where the final climb towards San Fermo della Battaglia begins. The climb has a gradient of nearly 7% (max. 10%) and runs on a narrowed roadway and rough road surface, with several hairpins leading all the way up to the summit (around 5km from the finish). The descent runs along a wide and well-paved road, with two well-lit tunnels and two wide roundabouts, and it ends 1,000m before the finish. One last, wide left-hand bend can be found 600m before the finish. The home straight is on 7m wide asphalt road.

2015-2014 winners, Vincenzo Nibali (Bahrain - Merida) and Daniel Martin (Quick - Step Floors) are among the prominent names from the 25 teams which appear in the entry list of Il Lombardia. Among the other riders in the provisional entry list, are this year's Giro d'Italia winner Tom Dumoulin and Tour de France mountains classification winner Warren Barguil (Team Sunweb), Giro runner-up Nairo Quintana (Movistar Team), Tour de France runner-up Rigoberto Uran and Vuelta a España mountains classification winner Davide Villella (Cannondale Drapac Professional Cycling Team), Fabio Aru and Miguel Angel Lopez (Astana Pro Team), Mikel Landa and Diego Rosa (Team Sky) and others including Adam Yates (Orica - Scott), Steven Kruijswijk and Primoz Roglic (Team Lotto NL - Jumbo), Thibaut Pinot (FDJ), Julian Alaphilippe and 2009-2010 winner Philippe Gilbert (Quick - Step Floors).

The 25 teams (18 UCI WorldTeams and 7 UCI Professional Continental Teams) of eight riders who will participate in the 111th Il Lombardia, alongside the potential protagonists, are:
~pdf provisional start list (http://static2.ilombardia.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Riepilogo-iscritti-LOM17.pdf)

The race is live on Eurosport and Rai 3 from around ~15:00 cest
 1. Source of all text: RCS press release
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: search on October 06, 2017, 16:09
not that it makes much of a difference, but...

https://twitter.com/cirogazzetta/status/916299768095223810
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: search on October 07, 2017, 08:43
Stars:

*be Het Nieuwsblad
:*:*:*:*:* Nibali
:*:*:*:* Kwiat, Uran
:*:*:* Pinot, Alaphilippe, Aru
:*:* Yates, Moscon, Wellens, Martin
:* Landa, Visconti, Pozzovivo, Fuglsang, Barguil


*fr l'Éqiupe
:*:*:*:*:* Nibali
:*:*:*:* Ala, Pinot, Uran
:*:*:* Aru, Kwiat
:*:* Quintana
:* Barguil, Rosa, Martin, Yates, Moscon, Gilbert, Villella, Ulissi, Henao, Visconti


*it Gazzetta
:*:*:*:*:* Nibali
:*:*:*:* Uran, Pinot
:*:*:* Alaphilippe, Aru
:*:* Poels, Ulissi, Moscon, Villella
:* Bettiol
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: Mellow Velo on October 07, 2017, 21:41
The de Plus crash:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-f0ETXO1Q&feature=youtu.be

There were three more incidents of riders falling into the same ravine.
Simone Petilli (UAE Team Emirates), Jan Bakelants (AG2R La Mondiale) and Daniel Martinez (Wilier Triestina)

Where Bakelants bike ended up.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLj4EXpWsAAYjdF.jpg:large)

He has seven rib fractures and compression-fractures of the first lumbar vertebra and the third lumbar vertebra, the latter of which will require additional examination.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: AG on October 08, 2017, 00:39
wow - that isnt good

watching the de plus crash was very scary indeed.  Obviously the others were too - we just didnt see them at the time

hope he recovers soon
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: LukasCPH on October 08, 2017, 07:41
To complete the race:


Nibali attacked on the Civiglio climb, only Pinot could follow him there ... but not on the descent. Starting the last hill, San Fermo della Battaglia, with ~10" on Pinot and 47" on the chasing group, the Shark's victory was all but secure, and he could celebrate from a long way out in the streets of Como.
Pinot was caught by the group behind him on San Fermo, then Alaphilippe made away; the group sprinted for the remaining podium spot.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: t-72 on October 08, 2017, 11:46
A question on the Ld+/Bakelants/Petilli/Martinez crash, this must be one of the worst curves ever, if there were 4 separate incidents in one day. But was it 4 crashes or did the last 3 riders go down in a collective fall?

It is a bit surprising, this happened on a day with stunning weather and good conditions for cycling. In theory, the 3 last ones shouldn't be linked to Ld+ as both man and bike cleared the road immediately. In practice, I guess there would be chaos pretty quickly and the most likely cause for the later 3 is that there was not enough time gap from Ld+ to the peloton so the site of the accident could be secured, and the peloton was approaching at high speed?

https://youtu.be/3tIzbPNfV0o

The Italian race organizers have previously been decent at securing downhill sections, but here there was nothing, so I don't think they saw the disaster potential here. I checked out the site on google earth/streetview and this is understandable. From the top of the Muro de Sormano, the descent isn't too challenging with long straight sections between quite mellow curves. It runs through the village streets of Zelbio but continues in much the same way past the accident site, down towards the lake where it gets steeper and there are 9 switchback turns until the SP44 joins the SS583 at a about 100m from the lake. Those tight 160 degrees turns on a narrow road looks a lot more threatening and might have been the focus  security work.

(https://i.imgur.com/YGWJetk.jpg)
3D view showing accident site looking back up valley. Notice the 700-800 m mostly straight section before the accident site.

The site of the accident is a blind right-hand curve where the road turns into a ravine then crosses the river on a stone bridge. It comes after a 700-800 meters long almost straight section where the racers probably attained high speed. It is conceivable that the blind righ-hand curve came as a surprise to them.

(https://i.imgur.com/JgqIJ8Q.jpg)
This Streetview screenshot gives a good impression of what the approaching rider would see.

(https://i.imgur.com/09lLXfQ.jpg)
When they get a little closer, they can see the road as it exits from the ravine, ahead of them. (Courtesy of te dead tree). This still doesn't look too bad, perhaps it is a little deceiving. However, there is a detail here. Look by the side of the road.

(https://i.imgur.com/MwXHvxa.jpg)
Flowers, often planted to indicate that this is a site of previous tragedy. From this point, the riders will see just how sharp the curve really is.

However, it shouldn't. Higher up on the road there is are similar sequences where a long almost straigh section is followed by a blind right-hander into a ravine, but the one where the crash occured is clearly the worst. It should be possible to pick it up if race preparations included a recon ride (by at least one team member) or maybe just google earth/streetview (as shown above). It is essential to know which curves should be approached more careful. Race organizers, teams and racers all should take notice.

Blind curves, where the trajectory and the exit isn't visible when you are approaching, are notoriously difficult obstacles and tackling them at high speed (clearly above the design limits of the road) will not be possible unless the right preparations are made. Reference is made to Ilnur Zakharin's crash in the Giro in 2016 which featured the same ingredients although likely much higher speeds.

In alpine ski racing, blind turns are rehearsed for the downhill competetition (minimum 3 times) but for the super-G, rehearsal is not allowed and racers need to spot it. For the Olympic Games in Utah (2002), the Super G featured a blind curve more or less right at the finish line, hidden in a steep section behind a hillcrest. Kjetil Andre Aamodt won: he actuallty braked on the hillcrest and limited time-loss through the curve, where most of his adversaries either had a major (uncontrolled) time loss or simply flunked it, DNF'ing.

I am highlighting this, blind curves are difficult (and dangerous), even one of the greatest alpine skiers off all times checks his speed before the curve and that is a winning combination. A few hours of google earth/streetview and maybe the odd team-member-on-trial run should be enough to flag the difficult curves on the course. Racers can learn to memorize exactly where this is, and, anyway with today's technology, there should be an alarm sounding from their GPS when they come close. It must be part of preparations, if not the risks are not correctly understood.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: LukasCPH on October 08, 2017, 11:51
I am highlighting this, blind curves are difficult (and dangerous), even one of the greatest alpine skiers off all times checks his speed before the curve and that is a winning combination. A few hours of google earth/streetview and maybe the odd team-member-on-trial run should be enough to flag the difficult curves on the course. Racers can learn to memorize exactly where this is, and, anyway with today's technology, there should be an alarm sounding from their GPS when they come close. It must be part of preparations, if not the risks are not correctly understood.
The problem is that in pro cycling, ain't nobody got time to put hours into route recon on Google StreetView.
That won't change until ... well, we've had a number of very bad crashes because of this already[1], and it hasn't changed.
I don't think it will ever change. :(
 1. Pedro Horrillo is just one example
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: hiero on October 08, 2017, 13:35
. . .
I am highlighting this, blind curves are difficult (and dangerous), even one of the greatest alpine skiers off all times checks his speed before the curve and that is a winning combination. A few hours of google earth/streetview and maybe the odd team-member-on-trial run should be enough to flag the difficult curves on the course. Racers can learn to memorize exactly where this is, and, anyway with today's technology, there should be an alarm sounding from their GPS when they come close. It must be part of preparations, if not the risks are not correctly understood.
The problem is that in pro cycling, ain't nobody got time to put hours into route recon on Google StreetView.
That won't change until ... well, we've had a number of very bad crashes because of this already[1], and it hasn't changed.
I don't think it will ever change. :(
 1. Pedro Horrillo is just one example

Back when I was racing - even when I had ridden a road before - and I KNEW there was a bad corner - unless I knew the road intimately (i.e. a home road) - in the heat of the race - I could not remember exactly where the bad corner was. There would always be, in my mind, "oh, is it here?  No, not this one, not yet." And then it would be there and it would be a bit of a surprise. And I have a much better than average memory. I don't think I'm the only one who had such an issue! :)

The GPS idea might work tho - an electronic warning. But, you know, in the heat of a race, there are times that even a flagman with a whistle doesn't grab a rider's attention. However, I think on such a corner as this one, a flagman with a whistle might have been what should have been there.

Nibali said, on his first win here, he did not know the descent. This time he prepped for it. Significant, eh?

But I really popped in to ask a question. What was with the 8-finger salute at the finish? Or was it 5 and 3? I don't see anything in the news reports of Nibali's victory.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: search on October 08, 2017, 13:39
But I really popped in to ask a question. What was with the 8-finger salute at the finish? Or was it 5 and 3? I don't see anything in the news reports of Nibali's victory.

5 and Zero apparently, as it was his 50th win
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: Echoes on October 08, 2017, 14:03
So hopefully it becomes a good reason to ditch the Sormano. I've always advocated for it though must be said, that is because I find the ascent "a circus and I don't want to be a part of it". At some point, steep climbs are getting absurd. Classics should be open for the biggest number and in particular for complete riders and not restricted to featherweight climbers. Problem is that then we should avoid bunch sprints or cases like 2011 when Sky chased Nibali for peanuts as Uran was outside the top10 and Zaugg was a surprise winner.  :-x


Descent of the Civiglio is as I remember often equally as dangerous but how come that that corner had never caused crashes in previous editions and then at least 2 terrible crashes in one edition?


Finally and most importantly, as much as I have always enjoyed Nibali as a rider, I can never enjoy a victory for the Gulf oil dictators who support terrorism and Israeli colonisation of Palestine. I've lost all the respect I had for Nibali since his transfer. Same goes with Rui Costa and now Dan Martin.

Hope I'm entitled to say that because last time I talked politics on this part of the forum, I was censored but this time, politics and sport are clearly related and we cannot ignore that Nibali is working for despicable employers !!!  :angry
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: t-72 on October 08, 2017, 20:51
Back when I was racing - even when I had ridden a road before - and I KNEW there was a bad corner - unless I knew the road intimately (i.e. a home road) - in the heat of the race - I could not remember exactly where the bad corner was. There would always be, in my mind, "oh, is it here?  No, not this one, not yet." And then it would be there and it would be a bit of a surprise. And I have a much better than average memory. I don't think I'm the only one who had such an issue! :)

To visualize (for your inner eye) and memorize a descent to minute detail is actually possible, but it takes training. That's the kind of training you get as a young alpine skier. (Unlike in cycling you getto have  a large number of failures with usually very limited consequences). I don't think road cyclists train like that today, but there is certainly potential to learn from downhill skiing. I am not sure about MTB downhill athletes, they would certainly benefit a lot from it.

Certainly it is an extra challenge dealing with a group of other cyclists at the same time as negotiating a tricky course. I used to think I would be comfortable cycling downhill (I mean, on my own, I am!) but put me in a peloton - the kind you find in sportives - and  I am easily spooked, especially by other riders looking scared stiff. I am scared what they will do when we come to the difficult curves!

Laurens de Plus has had a bad run lately in terms of stability, he actually fell in a curve on the climb onto Puddefjordsbroen in the World championship RR. This while he was, as usual, towing the bunch, and it makes me question if he is the kind of rider that empties his tank to the level where dizziness sets in and spatial awareness is a bit compromised. (He did some 150 km on front of the bunch that day...geez!)
Unintentional fake news, mixed up de + with Vermote!
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: t-72 on October 08, 2017, 20:55
Finally and most importantly, as much as I have always enjoyed Nibali as a rider, I can never enjoy a victory for the Gulf oil dictators who support terrorism and Israeli colonisation of Palestine. I've lost all the respect I had for Nibali since his transfer. Same goes with Rui Costa and now Dan Martin.

Hope I'm entitled to say that because last time I talked politics on this part of the forum, I was censored but this time, politics and sport are clearly related and we cannot ignore that Nibali is working for despicable employers !!!  :angry

I am also a bit concerned (to say the least) about the association of sports, especially cycling, to "ill money" - we should have a thread for that somewhere off the races forum....
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: LukasCPH on October 08, 2017, 22:11
I am also a bit concerned (to say the least) about the association of sports, especially cycling, to "ill money" - we should have a thread for that somewhere off the races forum....
It's the off-season - get thread-creating! ;)

Laurens de Plus actually fell in a curve on the climb onto Puddefjordsbroen in the World championship RR.
Wasn't that Vermote?
Or did de Plus do the same?
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: hiero on October 09, 2017, 02:04
. . .

Certainly it is an extra challenge dealing with a group of other cyclists at the same time as negotiating a tricky course. I used to think I would be comfortable cycling downhill (I mean, on my own, I am!) but put me in a peloton - the kind you find in sportives - and  I am easily spooked, especially by other riders looking scared stiff. I am scared what they will do when we come to the difficult curves!

 . . .

Now, I was, at my best, maybe close to being a Cat 3, so not very good. But I was one of the best Masters racers in town - consistently came in 2nd! But, the effort involved is very much part of the confusion. One can not just concentrate on the course - there are wheels and road hazards and idiots braking etc etc. Even when other riders are not squirrelly, they may act in a way that to oneself might be unexpected, and thus unpredictable - when you don't know that rider and how they respond. And the physical effort does detract from the mental ability to focus - very much. Even if you are not at your limit. Your energy stores are all being devoted by your body to the muscles, the brain comes in 2nd! You mentioned this already.

While I very much believe that the technique you describe is a good one for a downhill skier - I simultaneously doubt the usefulness for a cyclist riding in a pack. You can use any memory aid you want - a km marker, a landmark, so many km into the race, whatever - chances are good you are going to miss the cue because something is going on you need to pay attention to. When things are happening, it's like driving in rush hour traffic in bad weather. Oy! ALL your attention is required to avoid crashing! At least, that was my experience.

With race radios and GPS onboard the cycles, they should do better if they use them properly. Since 4 riders crashed on that very corner, I have to think the teams are not doing everything they can to help the riders navigate. After many races, one gets better at juggling the physical demands with the mental focus, but still, a slipup is a mere microsecond away.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: hiero on October 09, 2017, 02:17
. . .

Descent of the Civiglio is as I remember often equally as dangerous but how come that that corner had never caused crashes in previous editions and then at least 2 terrible crashes in one edition?


Finally and most importantly, as much as I have always enjoyed Nibali as a rider, I can never enjoy a victory for the Gulf oil dictators who support terrorism and Israeli colonisation of Palestine. I've lost all the respect I had for Nibali since his transfer. Same goes with Rui Costa and now Dan Martin.

Hope I'm entitled to say that because last time I talked politics on this part of the forum, I was censored but this time, politics and sport are clearly related and we cannot ignore that Nibali is working for despicable employers !!!  :angry

Good point about the corner. It's not like the course is a new one! I do have to wonder though, with Nibali out front, and him being one of THE premier descenders of today's peloton, how much CHASING him got others overcooking the descent. Which would be their fault, not Nibali's, if that was the case, of course.

I don't care for the Gulf oil involvement myself - but it is an extremely complicated isssue, and VERY difficult to discuss it rationally today. When it comes time to watch the race, I try to just forget all that stuff, and focus on the race. And on how the people who support the teams act around the racing and towards the cyclist. Give it a little separation, you know. Otherwise, I'd probably not watch any of the races any more at all!
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: AG on October 09, 2017, 12:11
Nibali wasnt out in front on that descent though.

the accident was when Cherel was out in front ind De Plus was trying to bridge.  Peleton was just basically monitoring (with FDJ leading them)

Nibali didnt attack until the next climb about 20km later
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on October 09, 2017, 15:43
Watching that live was scary.

As De Plus went over even Carlton Kirby was quiet and didn't know what he could or should say.

The distasteful replays were tough to watch and it was a real relief to know that the guy will be ok.

It raises an interesting question now in cycle sport. Descents are becoming a problem and it will need addressing.

Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: t-72 on October 10, 2017, 21:15
It's the off-season - get thread-creating! ;)
Wasn't that Vermote?
Or did de Plus do the same?

Sorry, my bad, for some reason I thought that was de +, but he didn't even start.
(Lame excuse: watching roadside means I didn't hear a word of commentary... :) )
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: hiero on October 11, 2017, 00:56
Nibali wasnt out in front on that descent though.

the accident was when Cherel was out in front ind De Plus was trying to bridge.  Peleton was just basically monitoring (with FDJ leading them)

Nibali didnt attack until the next climb about 20km later

Really! I'm sure you are sure, or you wouldn't have said so - I am surprised. But probably not enough to go back and review the footage, as I have other things I am SUPPOSED to be doing. Instead of killing time on some dumb cycling topic  :o  know-what-I-mean?  :lol

Watching that live was scary.

As De Plus went over even Carlton Kirby was quiet and didn't know what he could or should say.

The distasteful replays were tough to watch and it was a real relief to know that the guy will be ok.

It raises an interesting question now in cycle sport. Descents are becoming a problem and it will need addressing.



It is certainly a topic that should be addressed - but one also has the fact, at least here, that this is the same descent as past years. Kinda confuses the issue.
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: hiero on October 11, 2017, 20:42
The VN guys discuss the Lombardia issue on the latest podcast, with Alex Howes:
VN Podcast 54: Why Lombardia is cycling's hardest one day race (http://www.velonews.com/2017/10/podcast/vn-podcast-ep-54-why-lombardia-is-cyclings-hardest-race_450090)
Title: Re: The Italian Autumn Classics (Il Lombardia)
Post by: jimmythecuckoo on October 16, 2017, 10:52

It is certainly a topic that should be addressed - but one also has the fact, at least here, that this is the same descent as past years. Kinda confuses the issue.

True.

My issue is with the TV editor to be fair.

In all other sports when a serious injury looks to have occurred, they do not show the aftermath or replays of the incident.