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Professional Cycling => Road Races => Topic started by: search on May 30, 2018, 08:43

Title: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on May 30, 2018, 08:43
Critérium du Dauphiné[1]

June 3rd to 10th

The 70th edition of the Critérium du Dauphiné will start with a 6.6 km prologue through the streets of Valence on 3 June. After a long, hard slog on the roads of Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, the adventure will draw to a close in Saint-Gervais Mont-Blanc on 10 June.

(https://aso.hosting.augure.com/Augure_ASO/r/ContenuEnLigne/Download?id=F7474389-2EFC-433D-B723-404420D6DA19&filename=CDD18_generik_v3.jpg)

For cycling enthusiasts, the city of Valence and more broadly the Rhône Valley bring to mind sprint finishes, whether on the Critérium du Dauphiné, Paris-Nice or Tour de France. The region is also conducive to time-trial routes, which is what took place the last time that the Dauphiné stopped off in Valence in 2009 (with a victory for Bert Grabsch). For the return of the race to the administrative centre of the Drôme, the riders will again have the opportunity to express themselves against the clock on a 6.6-km prologue. The sprinters will have their turn the following day at Saint-Just-Saint-Rambert and, if circumstances allow, the day afterwards in Belleville.

Sunday, June 3rd: Prologue : Valence > Valence (6,6 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/6uAwgFM.jpg)

Monday, June 4th: Stage 1 : Valence > Saint-Just-Saint-Rambert (179 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/JSOj99L.jpg)

Tuesday, June 5th: Stage 2 : Montbrison > Belleville (180,5 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/rm4Lb2p.jpg)

The battle between the favourites will take on another dimension when the traditional time-trial takes place on Wednesday, which this year will be a team time-trial between Pont-de-Vaux and Louhans-Châteaurenaud. The time-trial specialists will give themselves an option for victory on this stage, but only the best climbers will retain any chance of success as the programme turns mountainous at the end of the week. The climbing will start on the stage at Lans-en-Vercors, which the riders will reach after having crossed the Col du Mont Noir pass and its 17.5 km of slopes with a 6.9% average gradient for the very first time. The ascent to Valmorel has been well-known to the pack since the 2013 edition and could again be used as a springboard for a future winner. The two remaining days will nevertheless still offer opportunities to burst upwards from the pack. The route to La Rosière, identical to the 11th stage of the Tour de France 2018, boasts an ultra-dynamic 110-km format. The finish at Saint-Gervais Mont-Blanc has also proved its worth on the Tour de France, via the show of strength with which Romain Bardet climbed up to 2nd place in the general classification in 2016. At the foot of Mont Blanc, the riders can aim high…

Wednesday, June 6th: Stage 3 : Pont-de-Vaux > Louhans Châteaurenaud (TTT, 35 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/jE8Ozgj.jpg)

Thursday, June 7th: Stage 4 : Chazey-sur-Ain > Lans-en-Vercors (181 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/OD2w3Jm.jpg)

Friday, June 8th: Stage 5 : Grenoble > Valmorel (130,5 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/W7pz4oF.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/KyTQ81y.jpg)

Saturday, June 9th: Stage 6 : Frontenex > La Rosière (110 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/8lrLzht.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/BhJMiO8.jpg)

Sunday, June 10th: Stage 7 : Moûtiers > Saint-Gervais (129 km)
(https://i.imgur.com/M8cj162.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/PvhBXR3.jpg)

The Alps will separate the men from the boys in the Dauphiné and the Tour de France. A dynamic new generation is heading into the race with solid climbers such as Romain Bardet, Marc Soler, Egan Bernal and Bob Jungels. They could well end up toppling Vincenzo Nibali, a rider who has won all three Grand Tours and remains a powerful force to be reckoned with.

22 teams: the main contenders (as of 24 May)
 
 1. Source of all text: ASO press release
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Mellow Velo on May 30, 2018, 11:14
 Here are the profiles for the stage 4 climbs.

(https://cdn.cyclingstage.com/images/criterium-du-dauphine/2018/stage-4-col-du-mont-noir.png)

(https://cdn.cyclingstage.com/images/criterium-du-dauphine/2018/stage-4-lans-en-vercors.jpg)
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Joelsim on May 30, 2018, 11:49
This could be quite an open race.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on May 30, 2018, 12:18
This could be quite an open race.

...or a first chance to get tired of Bernal-domination?! :D

edit: okay, he is not on the start list anymore anyway
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on May 30, 2018, 18:32
Whatever happened to descents? I thought we'd got over this stupidity about how only mtfs can produce decisive results but clearly not.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on May 30, 2018, 23:00
There will be 8-man teams or? I just noted that none of the teams have listed more than 7 + substitutes on the Dauphine web site?

PS: #movistar Marc Soler can win this?

Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on May 30, 2018, 23:04
  • *au Australia
    • #mitchelton Mitchelton–Scott: A Yates

They don't specify which one, just bring a Yates

 :angel
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on May 30, 2018, 23:28
There will be 8-man teams or? I just noted that none of the teams have listed more than 7 + substitutes on the Dauphine web site?

7, as usual now
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Flo on May 31, 2018, 11:23
4 uphill finishes in succession?? I guess they need something to offset the 35km TTT. Now we just need to hope the strongest climber isn't also on the strongest team
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on June 02, 2018, 23:21
start times for tomorrow's prologue (finishing early btw, last rider off the ramp is Houle at 14:40)

~pdf Ordre de depart (http://tissottiming.com/File/0003100106010101FFFFFFFFFFFFFF02)

so lots of big guys took the gamble to start right at the beginning
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 02, 2018, 23:38
Just glancing through the team rosters, first glance, it seems that QS and Sky are bringing a "name" or two each. And Bahrain has Nibali, of course. Given Simon's perf at the Giro, maybe we can expect some action from #mitchelton with A Yates.

Could be a very interesting race. I don't know who the good TTTers would be, but we don't usually look for that from Nibali.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 03, 2018, 16:57
I didn't see it today but there are some decent time gaps here for a <7km prologue:



Kwiatkowski says he's sharing leadership on GC with the crashing Welshman but this is a very climby week, so it will be interesting to see how he holds out against the likes of Nibali, Soler, Yates A, Martin, Bardet et al.

Not exactly a stacked field, so the Pole might have a chance, although I often think of him as being a bit like Alaphilippe: can climb high mountains quite well but usually falls apart when it gets very hard.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on June 03, 2018, 18:48
here are the split times for those of interest:

NAME INT INT -> FIN FIN
1      KWIATKOWSKI Michal      3:53.04 (1.)      <- 3:31.98 (2.) ->      7:25.02
2      VAN EMDEN Jos      3:54.27 (3.)      <- 3:32.39 (4.) ->      7:26.66
3      MOSCON Gianni      3:57.31 (11.)      <- 3:31.40 (1.) ->      7:28.71
4      CAMPENAERTS Victor      3:56.84 (10.)      <- 3:33.37 (5.) ->      7:30.21
5      BEVIN Patrick      3:58.64 (15.)      <- 3:32.22 (3.) ->      7:30.86
6      BRANDLE Matthias      3:54.82 (4.)      <- 3:36.76 (12.) ->      7:31.58
7      JUNGELS Bob      3:56.36 (7.)      <- 3:36.07 (7.) ->      7:32.43
8      KEUKELEIRE Jens      3:57.44 (12.)      <- 3:36.94 (13.) ->      7:34.38
9      CASTROVIEJO Jonathan      3:58.58 (14.)      <- 3:36.33 (8.) ->      7:34.91
10      BOOKWALTER Brent      3:59.46 (18.)      <- 3:36.58 (11.) ->      7:36.04
11      EDMONDSON Alex      3:53.73 (2.)      <- 3:42.81 (44.) ->      7:36.54
12      IMPEY Daryl      4:00.93 (28.)      <- 3:36.52 (10.) ->      7:37.45
13      TERPSTRA Niki      3:56.68 (8.)      <- 3:41.64 (34.) ->      7:38.32
14      TEUNISSEN Mike      3:55.43 (6.)      <- 3:42.94 (46.) ->      7:38.37
15      VAN BAARLE Dylan      4:01.19 (31.)      <- 3:37.20 (14.) ->      7:38.39
16      CRADDOCK Lawson      4:01.03 (29.)      <- 3:37.90 (16.) ->      7:38.93
17      ALAPHILIPPE Julien      3:59.65 (20.)      <- 3:39.60 (22.) ->      7:39.25
18      THOMAS Benjamin      3:58.16 (13.)      <- 3:41.25 (32.) ->      7:39.41
19      BOOM Lars      3:55.01 (5.)      <- 3:44.70 (57.) ->      7:39.71
20      POWLESS Neilson      3:56.75 (9.)      <- 3:43.13 (47.) ->      7:39.88
21      CARUSO Damiano      3:59.61 (19.)      <- 3:40.48 (25.) ->      7:40.09
22      DE PLUS Laurens      4:01.27 (32.)      <- 3:39.00 (19.) ->      7:40.27
23      WALLAYS Jelle      3:58.94 (17.)      <- 3:41.65 (35.) ->      7:40.59
24      FELLINE Fabio      4:02.08 (37.)      <- 3:39.06 (20.) ->      7:41.14
25      VALGREN Michael      4:01.40 (33.)      <- 3:39.79 (23.) ->      7:41.19
                        
29      ZAKARIN Ilnur      4:04.03 (51.)      <- 3:39.06 (21.) ->      7:43.09
                        
32      BOHLI Tom      4:02.51 (40.)      <- 3:41.06 (31.) ->      7:43.57
                        
39      SOLER Marc      4:04.55 (54.)      <- 3:41.28 (33.) ->      7:45.83
                        
41      BILBAO Pello      4:05.45 (58.)      <- 3:40.82 (30.) ->      7:46.27
42      YATES Adam      4:03.36 (43.)      <- 3:43.25 (49.) ->      7:46.61
43      THOMAS Gerant      4:12.64 (125.)      <- 3:34.18 (6.) ->      7:46.82
44      LUDVIGSSON Tobias      4:03.75 (50.)      <- 3:43.29 (50.) ->      7:47.04
                        
48      BARDET Romain      4:07.20 (74.)      <- 3:40.81 (29.) ->      7:48.01
                        
58      NIBALI Vincenzo      4:06.56 (67.)      <- 3:42.69 (42.) ->      7:49.25
59      BENOOT Thiesj      4:08.98 (95.)      <- 3:40.66 (27.) ->      7:49.64
                        
61      ROSON Jaime      4:04.21 (52.)      <- 3:46.46 (66.) ->      7:50.67
                        
64      LATOUR Pierre      4:01.75 (35.)      <- 3:50.02 (85.) ->      7:51.77
                        
73      MARTIN Daniel      4:09.97 (103.)      <- 3:44.03 (55.) ->      7:54.00
                        
82      BUCHMANN Emanuel      4:09.72 (100.)      <- 3:47.28 (74.) ->      7:57.00
                        
86      GAUDU David      4:08.56 (90.)      <- 3:50.18 (87.) ->      7:58.74
                        
102      TEUNS Dylan      4:08.14 (86.)      <- 3:53.03 (114.) ->      8:01.17
                        
133      MARTIN Guillaume      4:14.43 (135.)      <- 3:56.61 (129.) ->      8:11.04

so after the crash, Thomas did fairly well. And Bardet seems to have made (minor) improvements. Compared to most of the other gc contenders, this is quite a decent performance at least
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 03, 2018, 19:01
. . .

so after the crash, Thomas did fairly well. And Bardet seems to have made (minor) improvements. Compared to most of the other gc contenders, this is quite a decent performance at least

Oy, the "crashing Welshman". Hell of a nick to earn. Looks to me like it started on that paint patch. He had it in control, but at the limit for that wheel/tire combination. The paint may have put it just a hair over the line, as that back wheel completely lost traction about 1-2 meters further on. The pavement doesn't look oily or slick, but could have been that, too.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: AG on June 04, 2018, 01:18
I like it.  The crashing Welshman.   apt
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 04, 2018, 21:51
Technical and punchy finishing circuit today, and once again #vital le coq sportif aka trying sohard put his team to work on the front all day and once again he wasn't there for the sprint. I pity the team and pity the rider, but admire the way they don't give up. One day, he is going to stick the landing, after god knows how many face plants and close calls. Today was actually quite a close one, and for a pro-conti team it is a more ambitious tactic going for stage wins from the main bunch on a finish like this compared to sending a guy in the breakaway every day #androni style, but then they get good tv time hauling the bunch too, just as good as the usual suspects #cofidis get in the breakaway.



Just a little rant from me on what this race has not:
Following the Giro this is yet another stage race without really good sprints. Thankfully, the Tour de Suisse will hopefully turn into something like at least a little prelude to fireworks,  for those that enjoy big trains and mad horses sprinting. However the TdF this year I think will be top drama, because there has been little on offer so far this season, and there isn't anything after that of similar importance. So far we have seen either fields with the best sprinters a bit out of shape when present or lacking depth in the field to make the competition really fierce, or tricked by Nibali.  :shh
I am really looking forward to see the bee-train #jumbo vs quickstep #quickstep vs katusha #katusha vs mitchelton-scott #mitchelton vs #fdj fdj,  all on full force.  :D

Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: LukasCPH on June 05, 2018, 07:04
Technical and punchy finishing circuit today, and once again #vital le coq sportif aka trying sohard put his team to work on the front all day and once again he wasn't there for the sprint.
#vital, not #veloconcept ;)
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on June 05, 2018, 07:29
...
I am really looking forward to see the bee-train #jumbo vs quickstep #quickstep vs katusha #katusha vs mitchelton-scott #mitchelton vs #fdj fdj,  all on full force.  :D



Me too :D. Do we know if Cav is riding? It would be nice to see him in the mix one last time.

Unlike you though, I'm not so bothered about seeing the big trains in action anywhere else. One week isn't enough time to cater for a climbing comp, a sprinting comp and have something for the puncheurs.

And the French towns and villages and the roads into them, in general seem much better suited to sprint trains than the other two GTs.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on June 05, 2018, 19:00
same as yesterday, #bora Ackermann was basically the only pure sprinter to make it over the climbs - and this time he delivered and took the win :cool



Tomorrow it's time for a fairly long, flat, non-technical TTT

Ordre Heure Equipe
1      14:50:00      #sunweb TEAM SUNWEB
2      14:53:00      #vital VITAL CONCEPT CYCLING CLUB
3      14:56:00      #dimension TEAM DIMENSION DATA
4      14:59:00      #jumbo TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO
5      15:02:00      #bahrain BAHRAIN - MERIDA
6      15:05:00      #fortuneo TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC
7      15:08:00      #wanty WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT
8      15:11:00      #cofidis COFIDIS SOLUTIONS CREDITS
9      15:14:00      #uae UAE TEAM EMIRATES
10      15:17:00      #katusha TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN
11      15:20:00      #ag2r AG2R LA MONDIALE
12      15:23:00      #bora BORA - HANSGROHE
13      15:26:00      #ef TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P.
14      15:29:00      #astana ASTANA PRO TEAM
15      15:32:00      #fdj GROUPAMA - FDJ
16      15:35:00      #movistar MOVISTAR TEAM
17      15:38:00      #trek TREK - SEGAFREDO
18      15:41:00      #quickstep QUICK - STEP FLOORS
19      15:44:00      #bmc BMC RACING TEAM
20      15:47:00      #lotto LOTTO SOUDAL
21      15:50:00      #sky TEAM SKY
22      15:53:00      #mitchelton MITCHELTON - SCOTT

there's a small chance of rain though, especially for those starting later on.

Ag2R, Dimension, Trek and Jumbo are down to 6 riders already, and Sunweb down to 5 even, which is surely not an advantage.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 05, 2018, 20:45
TTs always happen on the days when I work from home. Big, race changing stages happen when I'm tied up in pointless meetings, two floors under and surrounded by middle-aged guys with massive bellies and skinny legs.

That said, I'm looking forward to this TTT even if I feel like #sky will probably destroy it. And in part this is because I feel like I have seen very few of them this season. I don't know if there have been less than usual in 2018 but if there were not then I was probably in meetings with those skinny legged guys when they happened.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on June 05, 2018, 21:14
Sky destroying a TTT would be quite a surprise though. Usually they finish way below par
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 05, 2018, 21:30
TTs always happen on the days when I work from home. Big, race changing stages happen when I'm tied up in pointless meetings, two floors under and surrounded by middle-aged guys with massive bellies and skinny legs.

That said, I'm looking forward to this TTT even if I feel like #sky will probably destroy it. And in part this is because I feel like I have seen very few of them this season. I don't know if there have been less than usual in 2018 but if there were not then I was probably in meetings with those skinny legged guys when they happened.

Ehm...#sky has Geraint Thomas racing, and as we have seen they are doing allright on destructive capabilities but the Criterium de Dauphine is looking fine whilst #sky has accumulated at least a few bruises on their leaders. The gun is no good if they don't know where to point it!
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 05, 2018, 22:04
same as yesterday, #bora Ackermann was basically the only pure sprinter to make it over the climbs - and this time he delivered and took the win :cool

Ackermann was clearly the best and while you may call Edvald "not a pure sprinter" he was this good last July:
(https://i.imgur.com/9djGHmd.png)
The guy in the blue shirt that was a few millimeters ahead was a german dude called Marcel Kittel, so let's agree that when Edvald is in top shape, he can sprint with the best. Ackermann's victory was by a wide margin compared to that other German last year, but then again this was Edvald still not in top shape. Nice to see that he is able to ride in to the final on such a hard stage in a WT race that is raced considerably harder than the Tour of Norway.

Also, great to see #wanty Odd Christian Eiking up there doing his job for the team.  :cool
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: search on June 05, 2018, 22:32
I agree that he can, yes, but that's approximately once every 20 times he tries to. So can we agree that he is not a pure sprinter? :P
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 06, 2018, 02:23
Me too :D. Do we know if Cav is riding? It would be nice to see him in the mix one last time.

 . . .
One last time???????????

Whoa. Did I miss something? Who's leaving us? You? Or Cav?  Oy, oy, oy.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on June 06, 2018, 08:35
One last time???????????

Whoa. Did I miss something? Who's leaving us? You? Or Cav?  Oy, oy, oy.
The last time doesn't have to be this time. But obviously there are a limited number of not this times before it becomes never.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 06, 2018, 12:48
The last time doesn't have to be this time. But obviously there are a limited number of not this times before it becomes never.
You gave me a shock with that. Yeah, there are a limited number of times. Even tho it seems like yesterday, Cav is a senior member of the peloton now. Knock on wood, and hope he stays so for some time to come.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 06, 2018, 16:09
No big surprises here, except perhaps the #lotto performance, where most teams did not have their strongest TT line-ups. So Kwiatkowski back in yellow and four #sky in the top 5.

The first serious climber on GC is Adam Yates at 1:01. All to play for but this will be quite literally an uphill struggle for Sky's rivals.



If Kwiatkowski still has ambitions to ride polyvalently and include GCs in his career, then this might well be the week to prove it.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on June 07, 2018, 08:43
I do like the team time trial as a thing. There's certainly a lot more going on than in an ITT, with different tactics to harness a team's strength and cover up its weakness especially if that weakness has got GC ambitions. I remember Leaky Gas always getting 8/9 men to the finish and posting good times as a consequence, whereas others go for the minimum number to finish together with all the domestiques giving it full gas until they have nothing left.

It does seem a lot of trouble to go to for less than 2 hrs of cycling which isn't particularly tv friendly. Why not run it in the morning and run a short stage in the afternoon?
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: AG on June 07, 2018, 08:48
I do like the team time trial as a thing. There's certainly a lot more going on than in an ITT, with different tactics to harness a team's strength and cover up its weakness especially if that weakness has got GC ambitions. I remember Leaky Gas always getting 8/9 men to the finish and posting good times as a consequence, whereas others go for the minimum number to finish together with all the domestiques giving it full gas until they have nothing left.

It does seem a lot of trouble to go to for less than 2 hrs of cycling which isn't particularly tv friendly. Why not run it in the morning and run a short stage in the afternoon?

this x 100
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 07, 2018, 09:33
Why not run it in the morning and run a short stage in the afternoon?

this x 100

Betraying your age a bit there. :D All those crazy split stages they used to have in the GTs.

Agree re the spectacle and I suppose the format would work best if they kept the finish the same to avoid having to dismantle everything and put it up someplace else during the lunch break. Sort of like a TTT and then a loop road stage.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: LukasCPH on June 07, 2018, 11:53
It does seem a lot of trouble to go to for less than 2 hrs of cycling which isn't particularly tv friendly. Why not run it in the morning and run a short stage in the afternoon?
Half-stages are forbidden in WT races.

But then, nobody says that this rule can't be changed ... :shh
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Drummer Boy on June 07, 2018, 12:32
Betraying your age a bit there. :D All those crazy split stages they used to have in the GTs.

Yes, didn't this used to occur as recently as the mid-90s? Can't remember now. :slow
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Drummer Boy on June 07, 2018, 12:38
Big, race changing stages happen when I'm tied up in pointless meetings, two floors under and surrounded by middle-aged guys with massive bellies and skinny legs.

(http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/09/Bidon_bottle_challenge.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 07, 2018, 19:20
I recorded it because I was at work. I forwarded the recording as far as 6km to the finish and I am not sure I missed any action there.

Good sprint from Ala, Martin stuck to the script going early and finishing second and Kwiatkowski folded much sooner than I expected but there wasn't much else to see here except #sky doing what #sky does. Can't blame them for that.



Still waiting for that big Latour moment and he's inching ever closer under cover of Bardet's shadow. Any stage now...

The real star of the day was the region and I know I have harped on about it before but the Vercors is fabulous for a visit.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: AG on June 08, 2018, 00:24
the only problem with the Vercors is that the really spectacular part you couldnt see much due to the rain dumping down.   Looked absolutely gorgeous though from what you could see.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 08, 2018, 22:04
Another day with an MTF and today we saw Geraint Thomas in role as #sky captain practically stamping his authorithy on the race. Yes, #uae Dan Martin won the stage but he is still so far behind he could almost get into the breakaway if he wanted.

There are a couple of strong riders in this race that are clearly not even trying to be at their best and beat Thomas. Rather, they let him show his cards and they hope that their knowledge of Thomas' abilities as shown here awill give them an advantage for timing their attacks in the tour.
 
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: AG on June 09, 2018, 01:07
yeah that is pretty much how I saw it too.

The stronger GC-types are not ready yet, and/or dont care enough about this race to go that deep ... 
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 09, 2018, 01:29
Another day with an MTF and today we saw Geraint Thomas in role as #sky captain practically stamping his authorithy on the race. Yes, #uae Dan Martin won the stage but he is still so far behind he could almost get into the breakaway if he wanted.

There are a couple of strong riders in this race that are clearly not even trying to be at their best and beat Thomas. Rather, they let him show his cards and they hope that their knowledge of Thomas' abilities as shown here awill give them an advantage for timing their attacks in the tour.
 
 . . .

Ok, you've lost me. Are you referring to Yates? OR ??? Give me a clue, so I can :fp
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 09, 2018, 10:48
Spectacular start of the short stage today? short, intense stage profile starting with 2 HC climbs and then there's no no tv  ???   
What a mismanagement by the race organizers!  ASO should know better!
If they only get 2 hours of TV then make a stage where the important stuff happens in the last two hours, not before the cameras are turned on!

 :angry :angry :angry
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 09, 2018, 11:46
Ok, you've lost me. Are you referring to Yates? OR ??? Give me a clue, so I can :fp

just scroll down (quite a way down, actually) on the results list to find a multi-monument, all-grand tour winner that seems happy with not winning this race :)
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: LukasCPH on June 09, 2018, 12:05
just scroll down (quite a way down, actually) on the results list to find a multi-monument, all-grand tour winner that seems happy with not winning this race :)
The shark has bigger fish to fry bigger swimmers to rip apart. ;)
Winning the Dauphiné would be a blip on his palmarès radar - winning the Tour against Froome et al. would be the crowning achievement of his career.

Cycling at the very top is often not about being strong, but about managing your strength well.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 09, 2018, 12:35
As Geraint Thomas knows perfectly well, staying on the bike is part of the game.

In my book Nibali already did win the tour against Froome and Contador, when they had a bad year. He actually won it with the largest margin of modern times, probably just because of the balance problem with other riders.

More important point not being how you count that 2014 Tour, but you cannot hold it against Thomas (he looses because he falls to often) while you forgive Contador for it (he lost, but we're not counting that because he had a fall). The same criteria should apply for all riders, you decide what you like, but don't make exceptions for accidents that are valid only for Froome and Contador.

Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 09, 2018, 15:11
The Shark. Ah, then. Yes - he seems to be out for a Sunday ride, just with the A riders. :D  Come July, I think he is likely to get eaten by the orcas, though.

BTW - if Nibali does manage to challenge the orcas, I'll be cheering him on!

As Geraint Thomas knows perfectly well, staying on the bike is part of the game.

In my book Nibali already did win the tour against Froome and Contador, when they had a bad year. He actually won it with the largest margin of modern times, probably just because of the balance problem with other riders.

More important point not being how you count that 2014 Tour, but you cannot hold it against Thomas (he looses because he falls to often) while you forgive Contador for it (he lost, but we're not counting that because he had a fall). The same criteria should apply for all riders, you decide what you like, but don't make exceptions for accidents that are valid only for Froome and Contador.


I kind of agree about Nibali winning because Froome and Contador had a bad year. The issue with that is they didn't even last long enough to create a challenge for Vincenzo. As for Thomas, the crashing Welshman, well, when he's won a few GTs, I'll reverse the way I look at things, as you say. Meanwhile, I don't see the compulsion to look at him in the same light as Contador - not yet.

Maybe this July will be his turn to shine. I do believe he is hoping it will be!
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 09, 2018, 15:46
Just when you thought Bilbao was done after a hard Giro and that #astana would deliver a blank sheet at this Dauphiné ...



On a parcours that we'll see again come July for the Tour's designated "silly stage", Bilbao was the last of the BOTD to hang out, dispensing with Boswell, Power and others on the last climb of the day.

Usually, you think, a BOTD needs minutes to make it on the final climb and these guys started it with less than 30 seconds. But in full conservative tempo bot mode, #sky didn't seriously attempt to chase it down and nobody else fancied a go either. Dan Martin's dig blew up the last of the peloton with Thomas, Yates A and Bardet eventually shaking out as the only followers but Bilbao, to whom they got within 10 seconds, still somehow made it.

I know the last section up to La Rosière was a bit flatter but I just wasn't happy about the gear the Basque was turning. Big ring and mid-cassette. Bizarre.

Today #ag2r got its tactics wrong, sending Latour to bridge over to the BOTD but then letting the youngster go for broke himself such that, when the GC contenders came back, he had nothing left to help Bardet and squandered an opportunity to improve his overall placing.

In the end Thomas himself jumped within the last 500m, presumably to put paid to any Doubting and grab the remaining bonus seconds, but you felt that he hadn't been seriously challenged all day. Like all trackies on the climbs, the crashing Welshman can't live with a lot of accelerations, but it seems the memo has not been read elsewhere. Bardet, who tried to slip away on the descent of the Cormet de Roseland, might have done better to attack on the steep bit of the final climb, but he doesn't quite look sharp enough yet.

A Thomas collapse doesn't look probable with one day to go, but tomorrow's stage is anything but easy. Perhaps someone should take a leaf out of the Froome playbook and go long, unless of course that kind of scenario is entirely unrealistic...
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 09, 2018, 18:01
#rosa Chris Froome was capable of going long against an opposition consisting mostly of #sunweb Tom Dumoulin. Now, #sky Geraint Thomas reminds me a little bit of Dumoulin, and maybe the same tricks can be used against them, but I haven't seen anyone in the peloton that appears to have the capability of riding in a long range attack here, this week. (Nibali obviously can but by now I guess we can agree that he doesn't count in this race). It is only Thomas himself that seems to be in shape for something like that, and he doesn't need to attack.

Something really unexpected must happen on the last stage for this not to go down in history as the most boring Criterium de Dauphine of the last few years. This is despite a parcours so full of MTFs and climbs it is probably one of the hardest ones by design. With a peloton lacking motivation for the race in itself, its a parade for the only team that seems to have ticked it off as at least a waypoint to their greater objectives. For the rest of the big names: they are elsewhere, or just here for the training effect, or maybe not that either, as we have seen Sunweb dropping most of their giro squad members after a few km prologue, and then more later.

If the TTT today in Tour de Suisse compared to the TTT earlier this week here in the Dauphine is anything to go by, the race with the less challenging parcours will more easily motivate riders in June.  On the other hand, the last year's Tour de Suisse was boring whereas there were fireworks every day in the Dauphine,  so I am not sure what to make of it...   :S
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: LukasCPH on June 09, 2018, 19:48
Something really unexpected must happen on the last stage for this not to go down in history as the most boring Criterium de Dauphine of the last few years. This is despite a parcours so full of MTFs and climbs it is probably one of the hardest ones by design. With a peloton lacking motivation for the race in itself, its a parade for the only team that seems to have ticked it off as at least a waypoint to their greater objectives. For the rest of the big names: they are elsewhere, or just here for the training effect, or maybe not that either, as we have seen Sunweb dropping most of their giro squad members after a few km prologue, and then more later.
This is an eternal truth: The riders make the race.

Course planners often want to cram as many difficulties into their race as possible - but that can often lead to the riders being overly cautious and wait for the last difficulty out of fear of cracking if they go too early.
Less is often more, as long as there are still opportunities to make a difference.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: L'arri on June 10, 2018, 14:51


Today was a nice day for our sport because it presented us a rare opportunity to ask ourselves pro cycling's equivalent of the philosophical question "if a tree falls ..."

The equivalent goes something like this:

If a GC contender attacks within the last 500m to grab the final stage win and by doing so halves his deficit to the leader, should he have gone sooner?

On the last climb above Saint Gervais, Thomas let Geoghegan Hart's legs do the talking. It was one of those moments when you saw some hint of the future in a crystal ball, when a young domestique suggests that he is far more talented than the journeyman in yellow, but in WT teams as in society, there is a hierarchy to obey. Que sera sera.

Thus Tao cleared The Way for the crashing Welshman's best GC victory yet while some of us wondered what might have been. Thomas was surely on the rivet and, if they had enough gas left themselves, Bardet and Yates showed too much caution, while Martin had burned his matches chasing down a big gap after an earlier descent.

Yates in particular, you felt, should have taken it on with all of his explosivity. Perhaps unlike his twin brother since May, he is still rather used to placegetting on GC, so he waited and waited and broke the heart of a Navarro as strong as we have ever seen him in the bio-passport years. You won't find a better picture of Spanish suffering in El Greco or Zurbaran.

Despite the limited length of the race, this week's performance will doubtless prompt another effusion of words about Thomas' GT capabilities. But does it seem any more possible now than it did after last year's Giro that he could hold on for 21 stages? And if Froome does prove to be bulletproof, will he be the bridesmaid again at Sky?
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 10, 2018, 22:12
Not completely clear if we saw the same race; arriving at the finish line today was only very tired men. The winner was one of them, but he still won by one minute so the situation was quite under control.
On his way to today's GC victory he suffered two punctures, on the last occasion #ag2r attacked and split the field, leaving Thomas to chase, first alone and later with a team, taking back one minute. I didn't hear what Thomas said to Bardet when he caught up with him, but I would guess he was not pleased with the situation. There was rationale for the Ag2r group to keep riding though, as there were relatively dangerous riders up front with #ef Pierre Rolland close to virtual leader's jersey.

On the final climb up le Bettex there were several attacks and by #uae Martin, #ag2r Bardet and a #mitchelton Yates, reeled in by #sky Hart and then by #sky Thomas alone. Oh..I forgot...we are still in this strange situation where #bora Emanuel Buchman is substittuted by a body double (does he have a twin too?) that can be recognized as different from the real Emu, because he forgets his role and goes on the attack.

The final attack, when #mitchelton Yates broke free,  came with only a few hundred meters left, and #sky Thomas could let him go, as it was unlikely he would reel back one minute and twenty seconds. Yates probably knew he would be let go at this point.

Tao Hart definetly had an excellent ride both this stage and through the whole of the Dauphine. Jonathan Castroviejo was equally impressive. Geraint Thomas may certainly not be the best grand tour rider in Team Sky, as long as Froome is allowed to ride.  At a relatively high age already, he is not going to put his stamp on half of the grand tours in the coming decade the way Froome has, and there are younger riders which seem ready to start challenging for GC captain status, just around the corner.

However, Thomas is good enough now to win a Grand Tour, this year - maybe even the Tour de France, as a captain of Team Sky.  His main problems will be with his own tendencies to slip and fall when no-one else does. His main advantage can be the opening week, wet and windy northern French July weather. There are few of the GC contenders that can follow him in such conditions, he might be capable of putting minutes into a rider like Quintana on the cobbles, if he is allowed to go full gas for his own results, instead of babysitting Froome.

In the mountains, it probably won't be more exiting racing than what we have seen with Dumoulin: an occasional stage victory, an attack here and there - but those attacks will not be the most spectacular ones. In the Dauphine, the attacks only came at the very end of the stages, where failures would be of limited consequence. A tour with Thomas as a captain for Sky will probably mean more of the boring and defensive Skytrain riding than we have seen with Froome. 
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on June 11, 2018, 07:05
I agree with every word T-72.

Thomas certainly looked gaunt in the post-race interviews, it will be interesting to see whether Sky can keep him light enough but strong enough for the full three weeks. If anyone can, Sky can.

Sky should put some resources behind GT on the cobbles as there are plenty of light climbers besides Quintana he could get serious time on. I'm not sure they will though. But that assumes Froome has another disastrous day on the cobbles and that can't be taken for granted.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: t-72 on June 11, 2018, 07:24
Froome isn’t too bad on the cobbles, but old Thomas could bag a top 10 in the Paris-Roubaix, and that is where Froome falls short: finish line, one day race, say no more.

Thomas should ride the cobbles stage offensively,  to win and bag time on his rivals, whereas Froome will probably ride it in stop-loss mode. These two strategies are impossible to combine, so question is if Sky will split their team for that day. It would be an unskyly thing to do.

P.S. Froome’s 2014 disaster wasn't on the cobbles - he didn’t make it to the first stone that day.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: AG on June 11, 2018, 07:34
Firstly - as far as AG2R attacking Froome - they were already on the front and riding exceptionally hard when Thomas had his issues.   Bardet wanted the stage and they were intent on chasing the break, and trying to create gaps along the way.   

Secondly - Thomas didnt chase back on his own for very long at all.   He got another bike from Moscon, Kwiatkowski waited for him up the road, and so did 2 other team mates.  Tao didnt help in the chase back on, so was fresh enough to stay with him (though it was indeed a superb effort from him)

As far as Yates goes - AG2R were most definitely not strong enough to hold off Sky for the 45 second gap they had.  But Michelton Scott or other teams who were going to get back on werent helping.

There were splits later as well, and no one was interested in capitalising or making much of it.

It all smacked of a preparation race that others were not prepared to put their whole team into.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: LukasCPH on June 11, 2018, 08:54
Thomas should ride the cobbles stage offensively,  to win and bag time on his rivals, whereas Froome will probably ride it in stop-loss mode. These two strategies are impossible to combine, so question is if Sky will split their team for that day. It would be an unskyly thing to do.
Thomas to latch onto Nibali's #bahrain train, Froome to shadow the other uncobbly GC contenders.
It could work. And then everybody else is left guessing who's their plan A and who's their plan B. :cool

But, as you say, Sky would never do that. They'll stick to their plan A come hell or high water. And no matter how great Thomas' form is or how much the route suits him, that will be Froome.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: Capt_Cavman on June 11, 2018, 09:49
Firstly - as far as AG2R attacking Froome - they were already on the front and riding exceptionally hard when Thomas had his issues.   Bardet wanted the stage and they were intent on chasing the break, and trying to create gaps along the way...
According to Thomas, Yates and Martin told him that AG2R went from chase to full on sprint once he'd stopped.

But yes, it's questionable how high the level was if Dani Navarro, from the break, nearly managed to hold onto a narrow lead up the final climb.
Title: Re: Critérium du Dauphiné
Post by: M Gee on June 11, 2018, 23:08
Thomas to latch onto Nibali's #bahrain train, Froome to shadow the other uncobbly GC contenders.
It could work. And then everybody else is left guessing who's their plan A and who's their plan B. :cool

But, as you say, Sky would never do that. They'll stick to their plan A come hell or high water. And no matter how great Thomas' form is or how much the route suits him, that will be Froome.

Indeed. Lots of quotable thoughts from everyone above in these closing moments of this Dauphine.  :hi