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Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the crappest of them all

John Buchanan
5 (62.5%)
Buchanan, John
2 (25%)
Failed Professor Buchanan
1 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8


Eric

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Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
« Reply #1290 on: September 12, 2013, 09:41 »
Everybody chucks. Literally everybody. Even Fred Spofforth chucked. It is physically impossible to maintain a gun barrel, 0 degree straight elbow while bowling. Check the study that the University of Western Australia published when they launched independent testing of Muralitharan's action.

Let's come to Murali himself. Everybody chucks. Some bend their elbows more, some less, but everybody exceeds 10 degrees, which was double the legal pre-Murali limit, and the only thing that counts (I don't care if somebody bends 90 degrees or 10.000000001, it's all the same). Muralitharan's standard delivery, the off break, was within the newly imposed 15 degree limit and was thus never in question. It was only the doosra that was in question. He did not bowl the doosra for years after being no-balled all those times in Australia, and only resumed bowling it after the ICC changed the rules for him after that UWA study.

Furthermore, anybody who believes that Murali took 800 test wickets because he abused the doosra, as though real life was Brian Lara Cricket '99, needs to spend some more time watching or better yet, playing cricket. The doosra, like any other variation delivery, is lethal only if used extremely rarely. If you rely on your mystery ball alone to take wickets, you will be found out at international level in about 5 minutes. This is why mystery ball spinners like Ajantha Mendis and Sunil Narine are now completely toothless in the long form (not that Narine was ever good at test cricket), because all they can bowl is the doosra. Based on this, I can safely estimate that no more than 10 to 15% of Muralitharan's test wickets came from the doosra. You can take off those 80 odd wickets if you are still convinced that he cheated (which he didn't. It's the umpire's job to no ball a bowler. Murali only cheated a handful of times in his career, and he stopped doing so as soon as he was told what he was doing was illegal, until the rules were changed to accommodate him.) but at the end of the day he still has 700+ wickets taken from pure, 100% legitimate off breaks.

Simple logic. Murali is to bowling what Bradman was to batting. Far and away the best. His feats will never be eclipsed, nor can they be tarnished by people shouting 'CHUCKER'. It is a symbol of his greatness that the rules were changed for a talent as amazing as his.

I'm Australian, by the by, and I believe that Warne is a foulmouthed, arrogant, unsportsmanlike buffoon who hated the vast majority of his own team mates. Oh, and he doped.
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    Eric

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1291 on: September 12, 2013, 09:46 »
    This is the study:

    Portus, M.R., Rosemond, C.D., Rath, D. (2006), Fast bowling arm actions and the illegal delivery law in men's high performance cricket matches, Sports Biomechanics, Volume 5, Issue 2, pp.215-230

    Bottom line: Murali passed the ICC test, he passed independent testing by the University of Western Australia and the University of South Australia, he passed testing by Sri Lankan officials (who would no doubt have loved to stick it to him, given that he represents an ethnic minority that the government have oppressed through the most brutal, inhumane ways for decades); and even after doing all that, the ICC still changed the rules. These same studies that were launched as a result of his test results found that every bowler chucks.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1292 on: September 12, 2013, 09:56 »
    Bottom line Murali chucked. I don't find it that surprising that the laws of cricket didn't take into account someone having a birth defect that affected how much a player can straighten their arm. He may not have technically chucked, but he was clearly bowling in a way that the laws of the game were framed to try and prevent.
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  • Ram

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1293 on: September 12, 2013, 12:22 »
    Wow! Next we'll be calling 1 degree bends as chucking.... Fact is a 5 degree pivot offers little advantage, control or extra revs. 14 offers a lot more. Ajmalian angles offer a lot more. People who say otherwise should realise that it's not BLC 99 and should go outside and play (see, I did it too). Rules were not enforced per letter of current law, more actual law. The bouncer laws were also existent back then.

    Second, just Murali's doosra was chucking eh? Ooookay. Murali chucked and the rules were adapted for him. It was visibly discernible that he chucked, 15 degrees came because of him. All 800 were of doubt, not just 70.

    Fair doosra bowler? Shaqi. Check his action, not much of a doubt there.

    Mendis is not Murali. Simple, he doesn't spin it enough and he isn't all that good. Mendis is the new era John Gleeson. Guess what happened to John Gleeson after a couple of years?

    Narine, another chucker.


    Bottom line: Murali passed the ICC test, he passed independent testing by the University of Western Australia and the University of South Australia, he passed testing by Sri Lankan officials (who would no doubt have loved to stick it to him, given that he represents an ethnic minority that the government have oppressed through the most brutal, inhumane ways for decades); and even after doing all that, the ICC still changed the rules. These same studies that were launched as a result of his test results found that every bowler chucks.
    Now this is just ignorant bullsh*t. You'd think according to that that there's no famous Tamilian in Sri Lanka. I say this despite being a Tamil.

    Also funny that you stick it into the ICC for being the bcci's lapdog but seem to forget that at the time it was their clout which helped these legislations.
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  • « Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 13:16 by multiidfarknugget »

    Ram

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1294 on: October 10, 2013, 05:14 »
    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/heat-on-drs-as-nine-axes-hot-spot-infrared-tool-for-ashes-20131009-2v8pq.html

    So they pay 400-500 million Aus $ for television rights but struggle to cough up $10k per day. I definitely believe them.

    Whingy strops really has no boundaries. Not to be outdone by Cricket Australia's sooking, the BCCI upped its game
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/Cricket/CricketNews/Ian-Chappell-snubs-BCCI-won-t-do-commentary-on-India-Aus-series/Article1-1132292.aspx

    then again, the same Chappelli that worked for Packer who sacked Marsh because of criticism
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  • « Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:07 by multiidfarknugget »

    just some guy

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1295 on: November 02, 2013, 07:01 »
    ha ha Cameron White getting runs and wickets in the sheild

    Gold
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Tuart

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1296 on: November 02, 2013, 11:18 »
    That's what happens when you create a mickey mouse ODI tournament for a month
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    froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1297 on: November 18, 2013, 00:22 »
    Some good banter in the cricketing world at the moment  :evil:

    Loved the Sachin festival, it is very obvious he isn't a David Beckham figure or even a Ryan Giggs but rather a genuinely good and nice guy. And exceptionally talented to boot.

    West Indies were tame, almost verging on pathetic and whilst India's spinners aren't half bad, they should have fared better against a bowling attack which isn't famed for its fast bowling prowess. They have to go back to the drawing board, but I am afraid we won't be seeing much from the Windies in the longer format of the game. They seem to be blighted by the T20 mania and the results are very clear when watching them capitulate at the hands of the Indians.


    And then onto the Ashes..

    Australia look quite the part, a strong team and rather than doubts hovering over all their batsmen like in England, now they are settled and ready. Bailey has been performing exceptionally, his 4/5 day pedigree isn't that great, but logic suggests that he can transfer his ODI form to Tests and how he has been batting in ODIs has been quite simply brilliant. If he fires along with another Aussie I like, Steve Smith then the Aussies have a lower order which has every chance of rivalling England's. And their top order also looks settled, Rogers, Warner, Watson, Clarke.. something like that, there are no Hughes, Khawaja or Cowans that have been in indifferent form and now need to prove themselves going into an Ashes series.. !! Rather established talent, even if I am still not so sure on Warner and Watson.

    And England.. Carberry means moving Root down to 6, which I think is a great move. He shouldn't be opening at this stage in his career, England showed that. Tremlett, Finn, Rankin? It will be Finn probably, not Rankin.. a slight chance Tremlett, but everyone knows that Finn is the best of those three and the one with the most international experience. He is a bit unreliable, but get over it. He takes wickets by the dozens and that is that.

    And an honourary mention to the SA V Pakistan series..
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    42x16ss

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1298 on: November 18, 2013, 06:03 »
    This series should be a lot better than the one just recently played in England, but I wouldn't say that Aus are even close to their old swagger. Smith, Warner and Watson (again) are starting to play to their potential. With Clarke's back in doubt they need to focus, all three are senior players now and will be looked to. Bailey should be a good call up, certainly overdue, he's a smart cricketer who's worked hard to be where he is. The Aus quicks didn't really impress in India, lacked bite and imagination, that could cost them against Cook, Trott and especially Pieterson on  very true decks like Brisbane, Adelaide and Melbourne.

    The English bowling line up doesn't quite look settled, with the decision on the last quick to be made. Finn or Tremlett are capable enough, with Finn having a slight edge but Tremlett is no pie chucker either. I haven't seen too much of Rankin but what I have seen he's not on the same level as the rest. Anderson, Broad and Co. should be able to carry who ever they go with though.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1299 on: November 21, 2013, 18:21 »
    Happy Tremlett is in, even if Finn is better :P

    Australia's batting lineup, got a walloping.

    But England better hope Mitch Johnson's bowling isn't as good as his batting, otherwise they may be following the same path as the Aussie batsmen.
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1300 on: November 21, 2013, 18:46 »
    Before the 1st day's play...


    After the 1st day's play...


    Great performance by Broad silencing the Gabba and using the pressure and hostility to his advantage. England really have to stop letting the Australian lower order giving their team a credible total after Broad and co. have done the hard work against the top order. It happened to many times at home in the summer with the likes of Siddle, Agar, Haddin, Starc and Pattinson getting cheap runs late on in the innings' and I fear that the same think in Australia could cost England the series. Thought Cook kept Swann on a bit to long yesterday when he was getting belted around the park by Johnson - maybe that's something to think about, although the fat bowlers were probably a bit tired and are stll getting used to the blazing heat.

    Tomorrow's day play should answer a lot of questions that have arisen:
    Is Carberry that right man to open with Cook?
    Can Pietersen play like the old Pietersen?
    Will Cook and Trott play like they did in the last away series or like they did in the summer?
    Can Australia's bowlers contain the likes of Cook and Pietersen?
    And what about Mitchel Johnson's temperament?
    Not to mention Prior will be feeling the heat after a poor summer with the bat...

    Intriguing to say the least...
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  • Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

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    just some guy

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1301 on: November 21, 2013, 18:52 »
    Someone please remind me why Australia hate Broad.

    Well he is English.

    And he hit the ball , someone caught it , he waited for the umpires to do their job, they fliped up, he was not out.

    But mainly cause oz are sh*t so the press and boof are looking for ways to take the heat off the team
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1302 on: November 21, 2013, 19:02 »
    It will be Finn probably, not Rankin.. a slight chance Tremlett, but everyone knows that Finn is the best of those three

    Just read this now. Did u seriously think that? Everyone knew it was going to be Tremlett. Clarke said it last week himself. And Tremlett is definitely better than Finn.

    Disappointed in you froome19, all that time on cricinfo and then that comment...
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1303 on: November 21, 2013, 19:03 »
    Stuart Broad dosent walk very often, but when he dose walk its all over the Australian team...
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1304 on: November 22, 2013, 06:35 »
    How do you like them apples Archie froome * 2

     :P
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  • froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1305 on: November 22, 2013, 07:07 »
     :'(

    Meh, dose of reality is good for us.

    England have always been prone to batting collapses, especially in foreign conditions and in high pressure situations. More worringly for me, is that Warner and Rogers seem to be going well right now.. too well. If their batting clicks and the Aussie top order gain momentum. I would start feel my high perch rocking a bit.

    And FT, I didn't really believe the tabloids.. sorry ;). It was only after my post, but the rumours became more substantial.
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  • « Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 13:04 by froome19 »

    42x16ss

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1306 on: November 22, 2013, 07:17 »
    It seems that Rogers and Warner have finally realised where off stump is and that they don't have to swing at everything that moves. Not getting carried away though, as Aus are at least as prone to a collapse as Eng. I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw from Lyon, Johnson and the ever reliable Harris today. Lyon getting nice overspin and drift, Johnson bowling with good pace and fire. Johnson does need to tighten his line and length a bit before Melbourne and Adelaide though, otherwise he's going to get belted all parts  :shh

    I was relieved to see Englands main four (Cook, Trott, Pietersen and Bell) all go fairly cheap, that won't happen often this summer. That young opener Carberry looks good though! Stuart Broad seems to be turning into a true bowling all rounder as well.
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  • 42x16ss

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1307 on: November 22, 2013, 07:23 »
    ha ha Cameron White getting runs and wickets in the sheild

    Gold

    Don't laugh too hard, it'll probably be enough to get him recalled to the bl**dy test squad if Bailey or Smith (again) fail and even a one eyed Victorian (most of them) wouldn't want that to happen :angry
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1308 on: November 22, 2013, 07:32 »
    Slaugtered at the Gabbatoir :shh :shh :shh
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1309 on: November 22, 2013, 13:08 »
    That young opener Carberry looks good though!

    Carberry is 33 -  an experienced cricketer!
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  • froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1310 on: November 22, 2013, 13:17 »
    I was relieved to see Englands main four (Cook, Trott, Pietersen and Bell) all go fairly cheap, that won't happen often this summer. That young opener Carberry looks good though! Stuart Broad seems to be turning into a true bowling all rounder as well.
    Johnson causing real problems, but I firmly believe that if the England batsmen get their act together they can face off against any bowling attack in the world relatively comfortably.. A big it though.

    Indeed a very sound point 42.. two or even three of those may not be in form and will struggle for runs. But all 4? I somehow doubt it, it maybe Trott this time, or maybe Pietersen but there is too much quality in that top order for it all just to dry up.

    And Carberry young? I wouldn't say so..  Unless you call 33 young. ;) (edit: FT got there before me)
    He has had a lot of injuries even one career threatening one just two years ago, bad counties and harsh luck to contend with, but he now has his chance after previously making a cameo and disappointing appearance in one test against Bangladesh.

    Good choice by the selectors. Compton had gone back to country cricket and was churning out the runs. An average of around 49, whilst Carberry's this year was around 40. Yet they went with Carberry, a more positive player with a lot of promise. Carberry's one innings to knock out Lancs this year, was devastating. It pains me to even try and recall it.  :cheesy
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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1311 on: November 22, 2013, 13:35 »
    Good choice by the selectors.

    Bit too early to say that....
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  • froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1312 on: November 22, 2013, 13:49 »
    Bit too early to say that....
    True, but in terms of originality and not potentially going with the more steady Compton, it is certainly more of a dynamic pick.
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  • 42x16ss

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1313 on: November 23, 2013, 04:21 »
    Wow, didn't realise that Carberry was 33! Where have England been keeping him? It almost looks like the Michael Vaughan mistake all over again, leaving him too long.
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  • 42x16ss

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1314 on: November 23, 2013, 04:24 »
    Clarke looking really good! I kinda wish ACF94 was here to tell us all how bad a cricketer he is ;)
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1315 on: November 23, 2013, 06:54 »
    woke up to England need 560 more runs to win  :-x
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  • froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1316 on: November 23, 2013, 19:25 »
    Wow, didn't realise that Carberry was 33! Where have England been keeping him? It almost looks like the Michael Vaughan mistake all over again, leaving him too long.

    Quote
    And Carberry young? I wouldn't say so..  Unless you call 33 young. ;) (edit: FT got there before me)
    He has had a lot of injuries even one career threatening one just two years ago, bad counties and harsh luck to contend with, but he now has his chance after previously making a cameo and disappointing appearance in one test against Bangladesh.

    I refer you back to this post. There is a lot more to say about him, but the good thing is he now has the chance to shine and I only hope he takes it. He got a duck today, but then who would want to be an English batsmen at the Gabba at this present moment? :P

    England need to get their act together. I am confident that they will come back stronger, but they have been far outclassed by Australia in every department so far. Was watching Channel 9 for a bit a day ago, and they were mooning over Nathan Lyon bowling  better than Graeme Swann.. That is when you know that something is very, very wrong :fp
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1317 on: November 24, 2013, 07:56 »
    5.45pm: Australia have wrapped up a crushing defeat, despite the rain, despite their shaky start on Thursday, despite a run of seven defeats in nine Tests. This has been a hugely impressive display and looks to have posted a significant marker for the series; England have been battered and bruised in body and mind, suffering the sixth-heaviest defeat, in terms of runs, in their history.

     :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s   :-x
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  • just some guy

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    froome19

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    Re: Cricket- RIP CMJ, Greigy and Neil Adcock
    « Reply #1319 on: December 01, 2013, 20:38 »
    Trott was in poor form, so it won't be a massive blow. The way I see it, if England's batsmen hit form they will win the series, if they don't then England will lose. There is no middle ground here, whereas there could have been/was in the English series.

    So Trott leaving then wouldn't make that much of a difference, especially because there wasn't much chance he would regain his form.

    There is a headline on Cricinfo..:
    England tour veering off course

    And how right it seems, in the practice match just finished, only one batsmen made over 50, and that was Ballance.. enough said. Swann took 4 wickets, but promising reverse bowlers Finn and Rankin were entirely and utterly hopeless. The Aussies meanwhile have the luxury of deciding between Bailey who hasn't done much wrong and Faulkner who I am sure England would take in their team any day (at least I would take him any day in my squad over Ben Stokes). How circumstances change..
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