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Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2012, 08:46 »
Friday, September 14, 2012

My Book will be in my hands  :win
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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #31 on: September 10, 2012, 09:17 »
    I finished Tyler's book over the weekend. I plowed through it, and took notes along the way (I hate when books don't have an index) but I may go back and re-read the entire thing because there is just so much detail:o

    What struck me right away was just how similar Floyd's account was to Tyler's. You could practically interchange the two them at random and it would hardly change the overall picture. They way they both easily slipped into Lance's inner circle and enjoyed the benefits of that; how they both ended up becoming a threat to Lance due to their own improvements;  to then leaving the fold and suffering the wrath of LA because of it. And then there's the almost identical run-in with Armstrong that included a very heated verbal exchange, on the road, during one of the Tour stages. Two different guys, from different years, with the same story to tell. That's now at least two riders who told Lance to go F*** himself right in the middle of the TDF. Shame it's such a small number though.  :)

    Two different guys, at two different times, describing such similar events, such similar interactions with Lance, and with nearly the exact same delivery—calm rational and matter-of-fact. To me, it only supports both of them, as the truth has a way of revealing itself when retold from different yet similar perspectives.

    I found the book to be less of a great read and more of a great reference. But I suppose that's due to the fact that there are just so many...facts that there really isn't all that much room left for a colorful narrative. There is some, but the facts alone are more than enough to fill the pages.

    I don't want this to be a spoiler, because I encourage people to purchase and read the book, but a couple of things are worthy of discussion here.

    From Page 164
    I was quite surprised to learn that Cecchini was strictly anti-doping and discouraged Tyler from going down that path. "He constantly warned me about Fuentes."
    Equally surprising (if not downright bewildering) is that Tyler states that, "though we worked  closely together for years, Cecco [Tyler's nickname for him] never charged me a dime."
    (It is speculated in the footnotes that this was due to previous police raids and charges (which were later dropped) but it still begs the question of why he was so generous with his time then.)

    From Page 102
    I was also surprised to learn just how effective a seemingly small amount of doping could be in the early years [1999-2000]. (But obviously, over time, the process became more sophisticated and involved.)

    “No big menu of drugs, just [EPO] and testosterone (Andriol). One red egg of Andriol every week or two during training was usually enough.”

    Add to that a  shot of EPO every second or third day, usually 2,000 units (about the volume of a pencil eraser), and that was it!

    From Page 105
    Tyler does also state though that it was possible win "clean" during that same era for shorter races, claiming that he won both TTs and 4-day races on "bread & water" with a hematocrit of 42. Beyond one-week races though, PEDs just offered too much of an advantage to the doped rider.

    Speaking of doped riders...
    From Page 87
    "Lance, Kevin (Livingston) and I would be the only team members to get EPO during the race [1999 TdF]. We kept it secret but the other guys knew something was up."

    Those "other guys" would then be:
    Frankie Andreu, Jonathan Vaughters, George Hincapie, Christian Vande Velde, Peter Meinert-Nielsen and Pascal Deramé.

    This isn't to suggest that the other Postal riders were neccessarily "clean," but rather that just for the '99 Tour, they didn't receive EPO during the race. As a matter of fact, Tyler claims that just prior to the race, "several of our hematocrits were dangerously close to surpassing the 50 percent limit."
    So there's that.   ::)
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  • « Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:29 by Drummer Boy »

    just some guy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #33 on: September 10, 2012, 17:12 »
    on OZ tv

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-10/former-lance-armstrong-teammate-describes-doping/4253740
    That was a great interview. She did what so few tv journos seem to be capable of: She asks a question, and then let's the person answer in full, without interruption. It's a lost art these days. I'm also encouraged by the fact that didn't regurgitate LA's "500 tests" bs, but rather simply referred to it as "scores" of drug tests.

    For Tyler's sake, I hope he does more of these and gets better at it each time. He seemed like he was squirming a little for the first half of that, as he is clearly still very uncomfortable talking openly about the topic. Yet half-way through he seems to relax quite a bit. Plus, I would imagine that those long-distance satellite interviews are difficult enough anyway, regardless of the topic.

    Some good editing too. Nice shot of Tyler and Lance embracing, and then classic footage of Lance riding hand-in-hand with Jan, and then getting props from Vino.
    Multiple layers of messaging there.  ;)
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #34 on: September 11, 2012, 20:21 »
    Friday, September 14, 2012

    My Book will be in my hands  :win

    Des Tyler mention if he or any other riders with his teams Tinkoff and Rock Racing were doping.
    He did ride with Mancebo and Botero and another Latin rider who were notorious TdF dopers and also he rode with Bahati Clinger, etc. etc.
    Plus Tinkoff was a notorious dirty team up there with Polti and Kelme.
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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #36 on: September 13, 2012, 03:26 »
    http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/09/11/daniel-coyle-interview-on-writing-the-secret-race-tyler-hamilton-and-lance-armstrongs-legacy/
    That interview raises a few questions I've had since reading the book. Coyle mentions a few stories they couldn't use due to conflicting accounts with other witnesses, and that, "as a result we had to lose some pretty interesting stories. Maybe those will come out someday; I don’t know." So there's still a lot more to be told, it would seem. I remember what Paul Kimmage said after spending time with Team Garmin during their first season. He said that the ex-Postal riders told him stories about Lance that "shocked" him. Now think about that for a moment! What would it take to shock PAUL KIMMAGE!?!? But Kimmage does not reveal what those things were (most likely to protect those sources). There's a tremendous amount of info in Tyler's book that I found surprising, but truly shocking to someone like Kimmage? I have to wonder what hasn't been shared yet.

    The other thing I wonder about, is that Hamilton gave an interview to Velonews in 2008, during the comeback phase of his career, where he mentioned a "mafia" in cycling and how some people had done some bad things to him.
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/10/news/road/in-an-interview-with-neal-rogers-tyler-hamilton-talks-about-redemption-the-cycling-mafia-and-life-on-rock-racing_84106

    It was also the first time (that I know of) that he mentioned the possibility of writing a book about it one day. But he never once used the term "mafia" in the book, and besides the account of Lance actually reporting Tyler to the UCI (which ended up with a bizarre meeting between Tyler and Dr. Mario Zarzoli at UCI headquarters, that seemingly went nowhere) there is no real indication of what he was referring to. When I first read Tyler's accusation in Velonews, I suspected that someone had set him up when he failed the blood test. But the book seems to indicate that it was merely the result of sloppy work by Fuentes and his dementia-impaired assistant (which is also the likely explanation given for Vino's failed test, and a bad day for Ullrich at the Tour. They were all seeing Fuentes). I just think there's more damning info out there. A lot more.

    One of the more disturbing things in the book is Tyler's description of his comeback attempt. While riding for Rock Racing, Tyler says, on Page 235:
    "I looked like a rock-and-roller and raced mostly clean [emphasis mine], without EPO. (I did take testosterone a couple of times). Be assured: it wasn't some kind of moral stand. I'm sure that if someone had offered me EPO, I would have taken it, no questions asked."

    That convinces me there's just something wrong with these guy's brains. It also begs the question: Was Tyler's winning of the 2008 U.S. National Road Race Championship fueled at all, even in the slightest bit, by testosterone? Because he only beat Garmin rider Blake Caldwell at the line by a few pixels. It was very, very, very, very close. "A photo finish gave the win to Hamilton by .002 second," Velonews reported.



    Any guilt about that? At all? There doesn't seem to be. Blake Caldwell's only professional wins came in two stages of the Tour of Utah. One in 2006 and one in 2008. So just how big an accomplishment might his winning the US Pro Road Race have been? It would've been immense. Was he beaten, by .002 seconds, by a doper? He'll probably be sickened to read this book.

    Besides that, there's not a single mention of Michael Ball's involvement with PEDs. Perhaps there's still some legal work being done there? Who knows, but that appears like a gaping hole in the full story to me.
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #37 on: September 13, 2012, 05:39 »
    That interview raises a few questions I've had since reading the book. Coyle mentions a few stories they couldn't use due to conflicting accounts with other witnesses, and that, "as a result we had to lose some pretty interesting stories. Maybe those will come out someday; I don’t know." So there's still a lot more to be told, it would seem. I remember what Paul Kimmage said after spending time with Team Garmin during their first season. He said that the ex-Postal riders told him stories about Lance that "shocked" him. Now think about that for a moment! What would it take to shock PAUL KIMMAGE!?!? But Kimmage does not reveal what those things were (most likely to protect those sources). There's a tremendous amount of info in Tyler's book that I found surprising, but truly shocking to someone like Kimmage? I have to wonder what hasn't been shared yet.

    The other thing I wonder about, is that Hamilton gave an interview to Velonews in 2008, during the comeback phase of his career, where he mentioned a "mafia" in cycling and how some people had done some bad things to him.
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/10/news/road/in-an-interview-with-neal-rogers-tyler-hamilton-talks-about-redemption-the-cycling-mafia-and-life-on-rock-racing_84106

    It was also the first time (that I know of) that he mentioned the possibility of writing a book about it one day. But he never once used the term "mafia" in the book, and besides the account of Lance actually reporting Tyler to the UCI (which ended up with a bizarre meeting between Tyler and Dr. Mario Zarzoli at UCI headquarters, that seemingly went nowhere) there is no real indication of what he was referring to. When I first read Tyler's accusation in Velonews, I suspected that someone had set him up when he failed the blood test. But the book seems to indicate that it was merely the result of sloppy work by Fuentes and his dementia-impaired assistant (which is also the likely explanation given for Vino's failed test, and a bad day for Ullrich at the Tour. They were all seeing Fuentes). I just think there's more damning info out there. A lot more.

    One of the more disturbing things in the book is Tyler's description of his comeback attempt. While riding for Rock Racing, Tyler says, on Page 235:
    "I looked like a rock-and-roller and raced mostly clean [emphasis mine], without EPO. (I did take testosterone a couple of times). Be assured: it wasn't some kind of moral stand. I'm sure that if someone had offered me EPO, I would have taken it, no questions asked."

    That convinces me there's just something wrong with these guy's brains. It also begs the question: Was Tyler's winning of the 2008 U.S. National Road Race Championship fueled at all, even in the slightest bit, by testosterone? Because he only beat Garmin rider Blake Caldwell at the line by a few pixels. It was very, very, very, very close. "A photo finish gave the win to Hamilton by .002 second," Velonews reported.



    Any guilt about that? At all? There doesn't seem to be. Blake Caldwell's only professional wins came in two stages of the Tour of Utah. One in 2006 and one in 2008. So just how big an accomplishment might his winning the US Pro Road Race have been? It would've been immense. Was he beaten, by .002 seconds, by a doper? He'll probably be sickened to read this book.

    Besides that, there's not a single mention of Michael Ball's involvement with PEDs. Perhaps there's still some legal work being done there? Who knows, but that appears like a gaping hole in the full story to me.

    This is one issue I have with Chimeras' hermano. I went to the IMAX at the Tech museum in San Jose and saw a short film about how the brain can drive the body to incredible accomplishments. It followed a TdF rider, French on a French team.
    Positively the greatest footage of cycling over the Pyrenees, incredibly spectacular, really better than being there, shot on the special IMAX film. I read later that it was filmed with Tyler, and the footage had to be scrubbed, when he was positive for the PEDs at the Olympics, and then again at the Vuelta.
    Tyler really really disappointed me. I was really happy when he took the nationals after his ban. After his 3rd positive (that I know about) I felt he was abusing the fans, and his fellow riders.
    If going on 60 minutes, and writing a book condeming His fellow team mates managers, other riders makes him feel peace, well personally it does not sit well with me.
    If he returns any winning he stole, by cheating other riders who were racing clean, I would be impressed.
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  • ram

    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #38 on: September 13, 2012, 10:27 »
    Watching Hardtalk was a clear reason as to why his words shan't be taken as gospel but always with a touch of salt. On the whole, he did okay, and remained composed despite a clearly disappointed Beeb (see Extra time 2004 and his lying to them then) and a lagging radio link between the two.

    One statement in particular by him was proper dodgy and stupid. I lied then as it would cost scores of jobs. That there is a lie. He lied to save his arse, and save it he did till he got caught. He'll speak the truth that is necessary to turn opinion to his favour.
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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #39 on: September 14, 2012, 10:51 »
    My book just arrived
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  • Martin318is

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #40 on: September 14, 2012, 11:20 »
    I know its shocking but I actually walked into a thing called a bookshop today and bought it off a shelf.   :win
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    just some guy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #41 on: September 14, 2012, 11:24 »
    I know its shocking but I actually walked into a thing called a bookshop today and bought it off a shelf.   :win

    Nice looking forward to that over Summer

    I would be waiting a looooooong time for the Swedish version to come out and be in bookshops then the English one comes after  :'(

    Amazon FTW
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  • Martin318is

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #42 on: September 14, 2012, 11:42 »
    Yep, being Australian doesnt always suck!
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #43 on: September 14, 2012, 13:45 »
    I know its shocking but I actually walked into a thing called a bookshop today and bought it off a shelf.   :win
    What, I thought I was the only person still doing that... :P
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    just some guy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #45 on: September 24, 2012, 08:59 »
    David Walsh Hamilton article in the times - full text

    Walsh Hamilton
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #46 on: September 24, 2012, 23:07 »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/24/tyler-hamilton-tour-de-france

    Another Hamilton interview. Haven't read it yet but early on he claims there will be more revelations in the coming weeks from other riders
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  • l29205

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #47 on: September 25, 2012, 00:51 »
    I have read it and I am surprised by Tygrat's claim that everything is x30 times worse then anything published or in print.  WOW things must be coming of the hinges at the UCI/Lance camp.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #48 on: September 25, 2012, 12:30 »


    Tyler Hamilton: 'Now the truth about doping will come out'

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/24/tyler-hamilton-tour-de-france?CMP=twt_gu
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #49 on: September 25, 2012, 23:30 »
    I have read it and I am surprised by Tygrat's claim that everything is x30 times worse then anything published or in print.  WOW things must be coming of the hinges at the UCI/Lance camp.

    I thought the same. They must have TONS of information for him to make a statement like that. When Coyle and Hamilton were on the Today Show, Coyle referred to "300 pages" and "an avalanche" of evidence, and it seemed that that was only regards to the UCI/Tour de Suisse cover-up (but I could be wrong because the interviewer failed to probe that point sufficiently). If Coyle has that much info on just one incident, imagine what Travis must have in his file cabinet.  :o



    I suspect it's going to be brutal when it hits the fan. David Walsh had this to say on Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST
    Quote
    My guess: within 10 days USADA report will drop like a bomb on UCI HQ in Aigle, Switzerland. The explosion will be heard around the world.

    If UCI wished to clean up cycling they would make public every line in USADA report, let people know how bad it was, and vow 'never again.'

    But UCI won't do that, it will fight on jurisdiction question and it will be left to USADA to get report out there. End of year is best bet.

    USADA can't make anything public until the cases of Johan Bruyneel, Pedro Celaya and Pepi Marti are dealt with.
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  • GreasyMonkey

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #50 on: September 26, 2012, 03:16 »
    Yep, being Australian doesnt always suck!

    You mean there are still some bookshops open for business??

    Thought they all were bankrupt and being flogged off...... ::)
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #51 on: September 26, 2012, 14:24 »
    When Coyle and Hamilton were on the Today Show, Coyle referred to "300 pages" and "an avalanche" of evidence, and it seemed that that was only regards to the UCI/Tour de Suisse cover-up (but I could be wrong because the interviewer failed to probe that point sufficiently). If Coyle has that much info on just one incident, imagine what Travis must have in his file cabinet.

    OK, I just got confirmation from Dan himself that he was referring to the entire case against Armstrong with the "avalanche" remark, and not just the Tour de Suisse incident (which makes perfect sense). He said the evidence on the TdS was more like "a couple of heavy boulders."  ;)

    I would imagine that for a few select individuals mentioned in the USADA report, daily life is becoming a bit like this:

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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #52 on: September 26, 2012, 21:00 »


    Tyler Hamilton: 'Now the truth about doping will come out'

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/24/tyler-hamilton-tour-de-france?CMP=twt_gu


    Tyler is looking mightily like Harpo Marx!
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #53 on: October 06, 2012, 06:10 »
    Author Dan Coyle is going to be a guest on TourChats, Sunday evening (21:00 EST)

    http://tourchats.com

    Neil Browne and the folks at TourChats have always been very accommodating to my questions. I've already got my list, but what would you like to ask Dan Coyle?
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #54 on: October 08, 2012, 03:54 »
    Eh, not so much after all. Wasn't able to get a question in. And I can't even tell you how much prep I put into this!  ;D

    I was hoping for a video question. Had my lighting all set; Velorooms logo on shirt was good to go... :P

    There just isn't any new info at this point. For anyone that has followed the ins-and-outs of doping and the LA saga over the past ten years or so, there just isn't much left that hasn't been covered. Until the USADA report comes out, or some other startling revelation, I can't really be bothered much anymore. There are still plenty of good questions that arise from Tyler's book, but they're not really being asked. And the trolls have become beyond boring and predictable. So I can wait. Or just go to the source directly. Whatever...
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #55 on: October 10, 2012, 16:33 »
    This book has been nominated for the William Hill Sports Book of the Year prize in the UK, along with Victoria Pendleton's autobiography
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #56 on: October 21, 2012, 23:24 »
    Tyler to appear on TourChats this evening. They go live at 9:00pm EST (approx 2.5 hours from now).

    I can't imagine that's there really that much more to talk about or to say at this point, but we'll see.

    I wonder which pseudonym the chat-room troll will assume tonight?  :-\
     
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  • Archieboy

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    flicker2.0

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    Re: Tylers Book - September 18th
    « Reply #58 on: November 28, 2012, 07:00 »
    Just can't get enough of Tyler.

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