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Re: Emma Pooley
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 09:41 »
Good post 42 x 16.  To add a bit more colour, in the winter of 2011 - 12, prior to the home games both Pooley and Cooke were in Perth.  They had to pay for their own flights out and back , from their £18k annual subsistence grant, which would have wiped out more than 10% of it at a stroke.  Both were living like hermits, Cooke lodging on the good will of friends.  Both doing all their own bike maintenance and life management, massages as they could get them.

Then out came the BC track team for their annual camp.  Business travel all paid for, good hotel accommodation throughout.  mechanics doctors, food advisers, soigneurs,  the lot.  Sutton would not even allow Pooley and Cooke to join the BC team while the rest of them were there, as far as he and Brailsford were concerned, they had not sanctioned the trips of Pooley and Cooke and these two were doing it because they chose to do it so they could self fund their whole program.  So the lowest bottle washer of the BC track team was being funded and cared for at a level well beyond that the Road Gold medalist and TT Silver medalist were supported to.  Other riders could see the way Sutton and Brailsford held a gun to Pooley and Cooke's heads, no prgram, no resource, no help, just blocking.  It was a power kick for Sutton and Brailsford, the pair are not very nice people and certainly not good managers.  I don't think Joe public in the UK would think such discrimination was how they wanted their money spent.

UK Lottery funding dumped in front of BC,  a sack of money that was several magnitudes bigger than any other country funded comparative programs.   That is what generated success not some devastating "marginal gains" program.

That Cooke fell apart in the run up to 2012 is understandable, that Pooley was able to come back this year like she has done and sign off on a fair high, is great.  That it has taken her so long before she walked away is a great surprise.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #31 on: August 12, 2014, 12:34 »
    It's sad to hear these stories on how even some of the bigger athletes in the sport are really struggling to make ends meet. The differences between men's and women's prize money and funding is ridiculous. For the men, it's never an issue: all the big riders get paid plenty and prize money is tiny compared to normal wages and sponsor deals. But for the women, even the fraction of prize money men get is huge for them.

    It's really something the UCI should be getting much more involved in, but it's a really difficult situation. You want the riders to have a good minimum wage and to be rewarded for winning races. But on the other hand, you don't want to ask too much and drive sponsors or race organisers away from the sport.

    What's troubling me is that even Lotto-Belisol which with its links to the men's team and a stable sponsor is paying its riders that badly. Makes me wonder what life would be like on a team like, say, Cipollini - nevermind the teams a level below that.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #32 on: August 12, 2014, 21:32 »
    I had a think about what I wrote and your reply SR.  It really is an unacceptable mess.  OK so coaches who are bullies and thugs are not uncommon, we can see it in Charlie Walsh in Aus and Eddi B in the USA.  Who was above Brailsford and Sutton as they enforced discipline with a couple of examples.

    Cookson was the guy in charge whilst Brailsford and Sutton were handing out their treatment. I went on his twitter account.  not far down is the picture of a young &  pretty Aussie girl who rides for Bigla.   I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that Bigla still are not paying any of their riders a bean.  So this is an Aussie who is not good enough to get in the Aussie team and probably not receiving any funding related to elite performance so she will, more than likely be there because mum and dad can pay for her to be there.  So what is she doing with Cookson ?  I cannot do the link properly but the text is enough to make you vomit -

    " Retweeted by Brian Cookson OBE
    Jo Hogan @healthycyclist  ·  Jul 27

    Today I had the pleasure of meeting the man behind the change in #womenscycling @BrianCooksonUCI. #LaCourse #Paris "

    Yes, my little air-head, this is the greasy politician who headed up the road commission as the women's scene lost race after race and which refused to countenance a minimum wage for female riders but put it in place for the men.  This they guy who looked the other way as the two best female talents on his national team were crushed by his staff.  You're safe in his hands darling ! 

    Just where are the journalists to expose British Cycling and the creeps at the heart of the program ?

    Then to answer my own question here is another vomit inducing piece
    "Tayler Wiles Is Breaking Up the Tour de France Boys Club
    Six years ago, Tayler Wiles didn't own a bike. Yesterday, the 25-year-old competed at La Course, the inaugural race for women that coincided with the final day of the Tour De France. " that i was pointed out going down the Jo Hogan twitter feed. 

    http://www.elle.com/life-love/society-career/tayler-wiles-tour-de-france?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1448_76617752&linkId=9064673

    "Inaugural".  They just love it don't they, having their pictures taken with the snake oil salesman who allowed it all to fall to bits.  Let's re-write history.  Such a convenient narrative for the English speaking press. 
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  • 42x16ss

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #33 on: August 13, 2014, 02:16 »
    Good post 42 x 16.  To add a bit more colour, in the winter of 2011 - 12, prior to the home games both Pooley and Cooke were in Perth.  They had to pay for their own flights out and back , from their £18k annual subsistence grant, which would have wiped out more than 10% of it at a stroke.  Both were living like hermits, Cooke lodging on the good will of friends.  Both doing all their own bike maintenance and life management, massages as they could get them.

    Then out came the BC track team for their annual camp.  Business travel all paid for, good hotel accommodation throughout.  mechanics doctors, food advisers, soigneurs,  the lot.  Sutton would not even allow Pooley and Cooke to join the BC team while the rest of them were there, as far as he and Brailsford were concerned, they had not sanctioned the trips of Pooley and Cooke and these two were doing it because they chose to do it so they could self fund their whole program.  So the lowest bottle washer of the BC track team was being funded and cared for at a level well beyond that the Road Gold medalist and TT Silver medalist were supported to.  Other riders could see the way Sutton and Brailsford held a gun to Pooley and Cooke's heads, no prgram, no resource, no help, just blocking.  It was a power kick for Sutton and Brailsford, the pair are not very nice people and certainly not good managers.  I don't think Joe public in the UK would think such discrimination was how they wanted their money spent.

    UK Lottery funding dumped in front of BC,  a sack of money that was several magnitudes bigger than any other country funded comparative programs.   That is what generated success not some devastating "marginal gains" program.

    That Cooke fell apart in the run up to 2012 is understandable, that Pooley was able to come back this year like she has done and sign off on a fair high, is great.  That it has taken her so long before she walked away is a great surprise.

    That was utterly disgusting. Cooke and Pooley were riding around town in GB kit, mixing it up on the road with the local guys and girls who were flattered to be training with them, all forced to do it on their own coin. Pooley studying her PhD in engineering at the same time.

    They weren't even able to see the Team GB mechanics, they ended up relying on a local bike shop owned by a former GB track pro. AFAIK they still help Pooley out when she's here, she was doing the shop rides last summer, was friendly with the staff and one of her old WC jerseys is framed on the wall.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #34 on: August 13, 2014, 10:01 »
    How petty could Sutton and Brailsford get ?   This really is a hell of a story.  This is the same outfit that claims with marginal gains they leave no stone unturned, every aspect of preparation before the race is looked at and optimised in the run up to the 2012 London games.  However, because Sutton and Brailsford want to make a political point and make sure there is no dissent from any other rider on the program, not paid out of anything other than public donations via the lottery, these two totally block out a gold and silver medalist and freeze them out of support, for what was it - each were there for nearly 3 months ?   

    Earlier, in  the summer before they held no trial events for the women when they ran them for the men. Again, BC would have been responsible for the organisation of that program.  And then look at everything that went into "Project Rainbow" or the Sky project.  These were not some "mistakes" or "overlooked items" and it was not something short term.  This was long term and systemic.  And that is what makes me want to lay the main blame at Cookson.  He can't expect to be responsible for oversight of every detail but long term discrimination like this is appalling, when it relates to public money.
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  • Archieboy

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    L'arri

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #36 on: September 08, 2015, 12:18 »
    http://www.220triathlon.com/news/britains-emma-pooley-crowned-2015-itu-powerman-long-distance-duathlon-world-champ/10511.html

    Emma P still a winner :cool

    Yeah, but 'we' lost her. Shame because élite women's cycling has probably never been stronger than it is in 2015.

    Although it is also true that there aren't exactly a lot of races for Pooley's type of rider.
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    Vimto

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #37 on: September 09, 2015, 18:33 »
    I've just finished reading Nicole Cooke's autobiography.  Whilst I found it to be a difficult, abrasive and suprisingly joyless read, what I really noted  from it was the sheer amount of female riders who have walked away from the sport way, way before they should have.


    I have very mixed feelings about what I read in the book because I don't think that Nicole Cooke (and her dad) always helped themselves, or any other female rider with how they went about things.  Equally, I just don't know how Dave Brailsford and the British Cycling Staff can think that their behaviour was justified.  Their actions seem to be utterly beyond me at times.

    With regard to Emma Pooley, as far as I am concerned she is an utter badass and can do no wrong, but, I don't really think her personality suited the rigors of professional women's cycling either on or off of the bike. 

    As much as I miss her not being around, I think she's better off in Duathlon/Triathlon and I continue to be a fan of hers. I am not seeing any development of more climbing type races, and as we can see from the Lotto Belgium Tour today,  the sport is continuing to spit out more and more hilly sprinter types.....UGH!




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  • L'arri

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #38 on: September 10, 2015, 08:39 »
    I've just finished reading Nicole Cooke's autobiography.  Whilst I found it to be a difficult, abrasive and suprisingly joyless read, what I really noted  from it was the sheer amount of female riders who have walked away from the sport way, way before they should have.

    I have very mixed feelings about what I read in the book because I don't think that Nicole Cooke (and her dad) always helped themselves, or any other female rider with how they went about things.  Equally, I just don't know how Dave Brailsford and the British Cycling Staff can think that their behaviour was justified.  Their actions seem to be utterly beyond me at times.

    With regard to Emma Pooley, as far as I am concerned she is an utter badass and can do no wrong, but, I don't really think her personality suited the rigors of professional women's cycling either on or off of the bike. 

    As much as I miss her not being around, I think she's better off in Duathlon/Triathlon and I continue to be a fan of hers. I am not seeing any development of more climbing type races, and as we can see from the Lotto Belgium Tour today,  the sport is continuing to spit out more and more hilly sprinter types.....UGH!

    There's a lot of good in this post. I'm going to elaborate on why I personally have to cut these women a lot of slack.

    Cooke and Pooley for me represent a women's cycling that has existed - I hesitate to write 'survived' - on the force of individual personalities, a Cartesian proposition along the lines of "I race therefore I am".

    It made for strange racing on the bike but also for a lot of outsider politics off it. There was no infrastructure beyond the Olympic machine for the likes of Cooke and I wonder how much of that contributed to her alleged 'difficult personality'.

    I'm not directly comparing myself to these athletes but I attended a pretty distinguished school as a kid and that school's tradition was to support runners, rugby players and cricketers. If one was successful at regional and national level in a 'minor' (and thus ignored) sport such as cycling, there was no provision for training, no support or interest. As a result, whenever I found myself talking to a local news journo, I refused quite indignantly to tell him or her what school I attended, even when the topic was English Schools races. I did not want any credit going to my school and I was quite bitter about it.

    So in some small way, I have a bit of sympathy for Cooke and how she was almost certainly shaped by her experience out in the sporting wilderness as a road cyclist who for the most part missed out on the Sky-funded, track-blinkered BC programme. Pooley is similiar, I suppose, inasmuch as she blazed her own trail.

    And what is so different, after all, between Pooley and Hugh Carthy, Dan McLay, Adam Blythe or any number of British men who went their own way? The difference, nay gaping chasm, is that there was something big(ger) for which to aim and that required them to fit into a well-established professional milieu which shaped their attitudes and demanded a particular, necessarily more inclusive approach of them.

    Looking ahead, women's cycling is no less top-heavy than it always was, except that now we are treated to the same phenomenon at team level. That is to say that proper teams now exist and function as such but these weigh on the sport much like the individuals did, self-sustaining and dominant among themselves, still delivering a two-speed sport of haves and have-nots.

    This dovetails into Vimto's last point: funding is one thing but without the variety of racing, it is surely inevitable that teams full of rouleurs will own the sport the way that Rabo-Liv and Boels-Dolmans do currently. Riders such as Mara Abbott or Kasia are world class but, apart from the struggle to earn a living wage, they have too few opportunities to demonstrate their particular talents. For me, once past the simple gratitude for getting a job, this could engender a different and perhaps more dangerous sort of disaffection.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #39 on: January 07, 2016, 19:48 »
    Having abandoned cycling in favour of triathlon back in 2014, Emma Pooley has now slipped ever so quietly back into the sport ahead of the Olympics. According to an article back in December ...

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pooley-to-make-comeback-for-2016-rio-olympic-games/

    ... she rode the Chrono des Nations in October and finished sixth, presumably without much specific preparation. That article uses the conditional tense but this one ...

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/great-britains-olympic-games-team-takes-shape-with-armitstead-and-pooley-at-the-helm/

    ... is more concrete, given that Sutton has pencilled her in for the British contingent in Rio.

    I'm not at all sad to hear it. All I wish is that she stays on for a while after the Olympics.

    There's no mention of a trade team, incidentally. Are we to assume that Pooley will be flying solo in 2016 and training at home?
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  • DJW

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #40 on: January 07, 2016, 20:38 »
    I'm very happy she's back, quite a formidable duo her and Lizzie.
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  • Archieboy

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #42 on: January 08, 2016, 14:03 »
    http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c7748efd34fe5c946e2814371&id=d3e950a19b&e=8edaaea5ad

    Emmas plans for 2016.

    Thanks for that, Arch'. No cycling comeback as such, then. Pooley will focus on the TT, which I suppose seems more compatible with her tri activities, and then perhaps they will require her to support Armitstead in the RR.
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  • Archieboy

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #43 on: January 08, 2016, 14:14 »
     and then perhaps they will require her to support Armitstead in the RR.
    [/quote]


    Is that support as in wait for Lizzie.
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  • AG

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #44 on: January 09, 2016, 00:29 »
    pretty sure the Olympic rules are that you must ride in the RR to ride the TT ... so yeah she will be required to serve Lizzie in the RR
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #45 on: January 11, 2016, 18:14 »
    pretty sure the Olympic rules are that you must ride in the RR to ride the TT ...
    Yes, they do.
    Which is stupid - is a marathoner also required to run the 400 m relay? Does a shooter have to enter in all calibres? - but it's the rule.

    The Olympics are also the only event (to my knowledge) where the RR is held before the ITT.[1]
     1. Maybe it's the same at Commonwealth Games, but who cares about those. :P
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    riding too slowly

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    Re: Emma Pooley
    « Reply #46 on: April 24, 2016, 19:11 »
    That was utterly disgusting. Cooke and Pooley were riding around town in GB kit, mixing it up on the road with the local guys and girls who were flattered to be training with them, all forced to do it on their own coin. Pooley studying her PhD in engineering at the same time.

    They weren't even able to see the Team GB mechanics, they ended up relying on a local bike shop owned by a former GB track pro. AFAIK they still help Pooley out when she's here, she was doing the shop rides last summer, was friendly with the staff and one of her old WC jerseys is framed on the wall.

    Could go somewhere else but right here over two years ago we had worked out Sutton

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/23/jess-varnish-british-cyling-shane-sutton-go-and-have-a-baby

    More poor behaviour  even if you extract the he said she said.
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