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just some guy

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Operation Puerto
« on: September 20, 2012, 11:42 »
Could not find a thread

But http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/09/19/actualidad/1348083073_884633.html

Charged with a crime against public health, doctors Eufemiano and Yolanda Fuentes and José Luis Merino Batres, cycling team managers Manolo Saiz and Vicente Belda and trainer Ignacio Labarta face a prosecutor's request two years in prison that some special charges increased to four years.

No athlete will sit on the dock, but many cyclists must appear as witnesses to the allegations or defenses. Thus, among the 35 invited, apart from the 13 Civil Guards who were involved in the operation and a dozen experts include riders Alberto Contador, who then competed in the Liberty, Saiz, although, according to the investigation, at no time was involved in doping practices , Jesus Manzano, also a private prosecution; Dario Gadeo, Pedro Diaz Lobato, Ivan Basso and Michele Scarponi, who were sanctioned for doping, plus Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Joseba Beloki, Angel Vicioso, Isidro Nozal, Unai Osa, Jorg Jacksche and Gianpaolo Caruso, who ran in the Liberty and supposedly underwent blood transfusions and other doping methods, such as injections of EPO, testosterone patches or pills anabolic. Many of them have retired from professional competition.
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 11:43 »
    can you take the 5th in Spanish law ?

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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 11:53 »
    Contador is going to take the stand and perjure himself to defend his doctor
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 11:57 »
    Contador is going to take the stand and perjure himself to defend his doctor

    More likely to defend himself


    Option 1

    have you meet this man - no

    option 2

    have you meet this man - yes sure he was the team Dr but only for controls. he never gave me any doping products or transfused any of my blood

    option 3

    Sure we joined the arms race to take it to Armstrong

    What odds on option 2
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 12:42 »
    Are those Puerto fridge bags still in existence anywhere? I still hope that someone might pull a repeat of what the Italian federation did to Valverde.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 13:18 »
    Are those Puerto fridge bags still in existence anywhere? I still hope that someone might pull a repeat of what the Italian federation did to Valverde.

    Good question, but the answer is probably not in the case of any suspected Spanish Athletes. CONI had to use subterfuge to get hold of Valverde's, the german federation got given Ullrichs in 2007 to do a DNA match, but it seems the spanish have never been too enthusiastic on doing DNA matches on their own riders.

    Doubtful.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 08:24 »
    Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

    I did,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html


    Quote
    The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 09:50 »
    MOULAI ‏@MOULACHI
    Lundi proch, procès de l'affaire Puerto! 30% des clients de Fuentès étaient cyclistes. Et les 70% restant?? Allez doc, mets toi à table!

    GT

    Monday proch, Puerto trial of the case! 30% of customers Fuentes were cyclists. And the remaining 70%?? Go doc put you at the table!
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 10:06 »
    Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

    I did,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

    It's interesting to read Jaksche's suggestion that Fuentes was in Germany for the 2006 World Cup.

    The German authorities conducted a raid in Goettingen less than a month after the World Cup had ended and the press view at the time was that the target of the raid was supplying drugs to Fuentes via Labarta acting as middleman, who had been arrested in May that year along with four others including Fuentes himself.

    The heat was on Fuentes by July, when the World Cup was hosted, and it seems extraordinary that he may have, despite being under investigation, travelled to Germany anyway.

    Finally, as far as I am aware, this simple fact is a new development:

    Quote
    Reports in Spain have said that Fuentes is not denying that the transfusions took place, but his defence will state they were done with top-of-the-range equipment.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon

    just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 10:12 »
    It's interesting to read Jaksche's suggestion that Fuentes was in Germany for the 2006 World Cup.

    The German authorities conducted a raid in Goettingen less than a month after the World Cup had ended and the press view at the time was that the target of the raid was supplying drugs to Fuentes via Labarta acting as middleman, who had been arrested in May that year along with four others including Fuentes himself.

    The heat was on Fuentes by July, when the World Cup was hosted, and it seems extraordinary that he may have, despite being under investigation, travelled to Germany anyway.

    Finally, as far as I am aware, this simple fact is a new development:

    Quote
    Reports in Spain have said that Fuentes is not denying that the transfusions took place, but his defence will state they were done with top-of-the-range equipment.

    which makes sense as it is a health issue not doping
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 14:05 »
    Howman wants other sports investigated too
    World Anti Doping Agency David Howman has expressed frustration at the insistence of Spanish authorities that the upcoming Operacion Puerto trial will focus only on cycling, pointing out that many other sports are understood to have been involved too.



    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13762/WADA-frustrated-with-Operacion-Puerto-trials-focus-on-cycling-only.aspx#ixzz2IiH4zWfj
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 15:40 »
    Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

    I did,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html


    I will never, ever, ever forget the time that the Spanish government made cycling look like a filthy sport but protected football and tennis. I hope the rest of the list comes out and tennis has to actually clean its act up. Football won't change, there is too much money in it.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 15:59 »
    I will never, ever, ever forget the time that the Spanish government made cycling look like a filthy sport but protected football and tennis. I hope the rest of the list comes out and tennis has to actually clean its act up. Football won't change, there is too much money in it.
    didn't they destroy all the evidence though?
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    cj2002

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 16:11 »
    Hands up with all the sh*t going on if you forgot about this one

    I did,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9816922/Spain-accused-of-a-doping-cover-up-as-doctor-implicated-in-cyclings-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

    As with so many other things, I tend to survive on the potted summary I can glean from Twitter. That article makes very interesting reading, though. I had realised that this spread beyond cycling, but not a) how far beyond cycling (I mean, if even Fat Pat is complaining, that's bad, right?!) and b) how brazen Fuentes was about it all. And for so long...!

    And now the Spanish authorities intervened to restrict the case to only cycling... I don't believe they're allowed to get away with that!

    </bemusement>
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 19:46 »
    As with so many other things, I tend to survive on the potted summary I can glean from Twitter. That article makes very interesting reading, though. I had realised that this spread beyond cycling, but not a) how far beyond cycling (I mean, if even Fat Pat is complaining, that's bad, right?!) and b) how brazen Fuentes was about it all. And for so long...!

    And now the Spanish authorities intervened to restrict the case to only cycling... I don't believe they're allowed to get away with that!

    </bemusement>

    Fuentes openly said in an interview that he would be bumped off if he talked about football and I have no reason to disbelieve that. It is my personal hunch that Alberto Leon's "suicide" was not as simple a case as we were told. He was a courier for Fuentes' operation and he may have known too much.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 22:49 »
    Fuentes openly said in an interview that he would be bumped off if he talked about football and I have no reason to disbelieve that. It is my personal hunch that Alberto Leon's "suicide" was not as simple a case as we were told. He was a courier for Fuentes' operation and he may have known too much.

    I know he is alleged to have said that if he talked Spain would cease to be world champions at football, but did he really say that they would kill him?
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 10:14 »
    I know he is alleged to have said that if he talked Spain would cease to be world champions at football, but did he really say that they would kill him?

    There was an indirect statement of that kind in an interview he gave to As or Marca I think. I'll try to find it.

    If I can rediscover it, it will be a volte face from July 2006, when he told El Pais that "What I have to say I'll say. I'll leave nothing out. If I have to tell the truth, even if it hurts, I'll talk." [source]
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 10:30 »
    There was an indirect statement of that kind in an interview he gave to As or Marca I think. I'll try to find it.

    If I can rediscover it, it will be a volte face from July 2006, when he told El Pais that "What I have to say I'll say. I'll leave nothing out. If I have to tell the truth, even if it hurts, I'll talk." [source]

    OK, when asked by Le Monde in December 2006 if he had worked with Real Madrid and Barcelona, Fuentes replied: "I can't say. I've received death threats ... I've been threatened three times".

    Following the publication of the interview, Fuentes changed his story in Marca, which prompted the headline that the doctor now denied receiving death threats. What Fuentes actually says, however, is something different: "I can't talk about that subject, but the threats do not come from the world of football".

    Le Monde was in possession of documents that supposedly proved Fuentes' involvement with football clubs, but the doctor claimed that they were not his work and again issued a denial through which some daylight still passed: "The name of none of these four clubs came from the mouth of Eufemiano Fuentes" but the doctor did allow that he had worked with players from the first and second divisions.

    Here's a summary in French from Belgian daily La Dernière Heure.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 12:21 »
    JSG i am a dissapoint if it were not for puerto our beloved robo basso could have done the double. I hate puerto for that. :D
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  • just some guy

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    Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 17:13 »
    so ALberto will really speak in defense of manolo :?
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  • « Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 22:14 by Fleur »
    RIP Keith

    Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 18:23 »
    I can see it now..


    Quote from: Jörg Jaksche
    Dr Eufemiano Fuentes doped me and many other riders


    Quote from: Ivan Basso
    Dr Eufemiano Fuentes thought about doping me


    Quote from: Alberto Contador
    Dr Eufemiano Fuentes doped me, it was a dark time in my career and I only did it to keep up. When I left ONCE in 2006 that was the last time I went into that dark place


    Quote from: Manolo Sainze
    We only ever paid Fuentes for training plans and advice on diet
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 18:27 »
    My personal thought on Alberto, when faced with a court of Law he will admit doping. But will say he stopped at the end of 2006 when he left ONCE (everyone stopped in 2006), and take a six month ban for co-operating.
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  • Havetts

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #23 on: January 25, 2013, 21:08 »
    Except that will be his second offense and one which I think is still in the Statute of Limitations (8 years?) so that will be the end of his career for sure. 2nd offense with a 6(+) months duration means the end of Bert surely?
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #24 on: January 25, 2013, 21:16 »
    nah because it wont actually be a ban. I dont think doping was illegal in spain, and its outside statute but he might take a voluntary six months off to match Levi and the rest. Although, even if he took that six months off from August he will still consider himself the real winner of the vuelta. :D

    joking aside, going to be interesting how they all testify, when faced with having to speak under oath.
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #25 on: January 25, 2013, 21:27 »
    Hasn't Alberto already denied any involvement with Fuentes? I fully expect him to perjure himself.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #26 on: January 25, 2013, 22:16 »
    Hasn't Alberto already denied any involvement with Fuentes? I fully expect him to perjure himself.

    So do I.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #27 on: January 25, 2013, 22:18 »
    My personal thought on Alberto, when faced with a court of Law he will admit doping. But will say he stopped at the end of 2006 when he left ONCE (everyone stopped in 2006), and take a six month ban for co-operating.

    He won't because of what havy said and because it would completely blow away that last tiny bit of credibility.
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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #28 on: January 26, 2013, 00:00 »
    he wouldnt even admit to the clen stuff ... I cant see him admitting this time either.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #29 on: January 26, 2013, 10:58 »
    By the way, the fact that Fuentes is not denying transfusions is not new after all. Some research I did the other day showed that his counsel had held that position for at least 12 months already.
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