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Re: Operation Puerto
« Reply #180 on: March 15, 2013, 22:28 »
yeah, and Fuentes was in Germany, so no bloog bags left in the office
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    Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #181 on: March 15, 2013, 22:45 »
    You can only work with the evidence you have. As Dim said, there's no reason for footballers to refill in late May.

    and theres the small issue of location.. there were two main locations, one had the riders bags in, one had the other bags in. One got logged and recorded really well (well, i say really, its a mess but they were logged), the other... :D
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #182 on: March 15, 2013, 23:03 »
    yeah, and Fuentes was in Germany, so no bloog bags left in the office

    what was that then that le monde were saying about Barcelona and what Fuentes said himself about how only the cyclists were targetted and not the football players.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #183 on: March 15, 2013, 23:08 »
    was there anyone playing for Barcelona who was not at the world cup at that time of the year?

    I was partly joking though, obviously he did not take all the blood bags to Germany. But he did come here for the world cup, didn't he?
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #184 on: March 16, 2013, 00:20 »
    Non-cyclist blood is what I really hope for out of this, something to force tennis/football/whatever to face up to some problems.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #185 on: March 16, 2013, 08:40 »
    late May 2006? There was this little thing called the World Cup.
    Good point, didn't think of that.
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    L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #186 on: March 16, 2013, 12:39 »
    Good point, didn't think of that.

    Yeah, this was explained in the trial. I think he had Labarta with him and the latter obtained products from Marcus Choina who, I'm sure by coincidence, worked in a lab about an hour's drive from where the Spanish team was based. Choina was later raided by German police but it was much too late.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #187 on: March 20, 2013, 12:05 »
    Someone found the missing Blood Bags all are accounted for  - http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/03/19/actualidad/1363722651_606904.html

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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #188 on: March 21, 2013, 05:49 »
    "El misterio de la sagre" - sounds like a new catholic dogma... ;)
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #189 on: March 21, 2013, 08:51 »
    In this recent CN article ...

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/puerto-fuentes-willing-to-give-up-client-list

    ... we now have 39 clients on Fuentes' list which he will, if the deal is right, give up to WADA but which is, in my opinion, actually a veiled threat to the people on that list and their backers. I think he has no intention of giving away that data for free.

    Surely these 39 clients consist of little more than a pruned version of those we already knew? What's the value of a list that mostly restates names like Basso, Scarponi, Jaksche, Osa A, Osa U, Cipollini and Ullrich (to name but seven).
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #190 on: March 21, 2013, 09:42 »
    well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

    JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

    Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

    still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #191 on: March 21, 2013, 09:50 »
    well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

    JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

    Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

    still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.

    In that case, I apologise for the rather jaundiced character of my post.  :embarrassed I didn't mean to suggest that the info shouldn't come out. It is always worth it.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #192 on: March 21, 2013, 17:44 »
    Posted this one in the evidence thread, but Its worthy of discussion.

    Liberty Seguros 2005

    Calendar - indicates if a team calendar is present in evidence along with its reference number
    Codename and numbers refers to fuentes bag numbering
    Bags refers to if there are bags known to exist

    Note: the bags in stock is obviously for 2006 at the time of the Puerto raids, and the roster is for 2005 and they did not ride the Tour in 2006, but working on the logic of similar doping patterns, and customers.

    Whats interesting is that of the 11 Liberty riders that scored UCI ranking points, Calendars are present in evidence for all but two of them, while of the remaining 16 riders, only 5 have calendars.

    Of the 11 Liberty riders that scored ranking points 5 have known identities and code numbers or blood bags in stock, while of the remaining 16, only 2 do..


    This clearly seems to show that if there is organised team doping, the bulk of it seems to be very much at the top end, evidence is there for nearly all the riders that scored UCI points, while at the bottom end of the squad, there is barely any evidence at all.

    If you then break it down into the Giro and Tour squads.
    Of the 8 riders who started the Giro, only 1 has a known reference number and only 4 have calendars.
    Of the 9 that started the Tour, all but one have team calendars in evidence, and 5, over half the squad have known codenames or bags in stock.
    [/i]

    Again this would suggest very much that the teams doping policy was focused almost entirely on the Tour de France.

    UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Giro?Tour?
    18Roberto Heras*es10RH142Y
    33Alberto Contador*esNo NumberY
    37Jörg Jaksche*de24Bella/Vains2011Y
    43Allan Davis*au23Y
    47David Etxebarria*es27
    71Giampaolo Caruso*itY
    77Ángel Vicioso*es8VCS/Vicioso164Y
    107Jan Hruška*cz14Y
    107Carlos Barredo*es
    112Michele Scarponi*it26Zapatero 32Y
    136Marcos Serrano*esNo NumberAlcalde138Y
    Joseba Beloki*es28YY
    Igor González de Galdeano*es16 & 29Y
    Luis León Sánchez*esHuerta263Y
    Dariusz Baranowski*poY
    Javier Ramírez Abeja*esY
    Koldo Gil*esY
    René Andrle*cz11Y
    Aaron Kemps*au
    Daniel Navarro*cz
    Isidro Nozal*cz9Alonso Cano/Guri53
    Ivan Santos Martinez*es
    Jesús Hernández Blázquez*es15
    José Antonio Redondo*es
    Koen de Kort*nl
    Nuno Ribeiro*pt
    Sérgio Paulinho*pt

    Just the Tour Squad
    UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Tour?
    18Roberto Heras*es10RH142Y
    33Alberto Contador*esNo NumberY
    37Jörg Jaksche*de24Bella/Vains2011Y
    43Allan Davis*au23Y
    77Ángel Vicioso*es8VCS/Vicioso164Y
    136Marcos Serrano*esNo NumberAlcalde138Y
    Joseba Beloki*es28Y
    Igor González de Galdeano*es16 & 29Y
    Luis León Sánchez*esHuerta263Y

    Just the Giro Squad
    UCI RankNameNatCalendar?Codename?CodeNumber?Bags?Giro?
    Joseba Beloki*es28Y
    71Giampaolo Caruso*itY
    107Jan Hruška*cz14Y
    112Michele Scarponi*it26Zapatero 32Y
    Dariusz Baranowski*poY
    Javier Ramírez Abeja*esY
    Koldo Gil*esY
    René Andrle*cz11Y

    Still unidentified cyclists
    NameCode No.
    Bags
    Cesar151
    Porras Bis/Dona2310
    En Blanco1
    Clasicómano Luigi2410
    Clasicomano337
    Amigo de Birillo254
    Gemma3

    Total of 6 cyclists whos identities are not known. (Note Dekker is either Clasicomano or Clasicomo Luigi)
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  • « Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 00:09 by Dim »

    Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #193 on: March 21, 2013, 17:49 »
    well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

    JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.

    Also will confirm for the record Contador and maybe even Frank Schleck

    still worth it as far as I am concerned - but yeah, I see it as a threat issued to those people.

    source???
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    Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #194 on: March 21, 2013, 17:58 »
    well it does appear to name a few newbies - that are still riding

    JI Guiteriez, LL Sanchez are 2 that jump out at me.


    these two have been well known for a while.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #195 on: March 21, 2013, 18:30 »
    Following on from the above.

    Liberty had a pretty dire Tour.. Final Finishing positions along with wether there are known bags in stock for them. This makes equally fascinating reading. Four of their top five finishers had blood bags confiscated in the Puerto raids, with one notable exception.

    PosRider'+/-CodenameBags?
    16thJaksche24.07Bella11
    31stContador1.03.25
    40thSerrano1.21.31Alcalde8
    45thHeras1.38.33RH2
    64thVicioso2.09.37VCS4
    75thBeloki2.26.26
    84thDavis2.34.40
    108thSanchez3.03.19Huerta3
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  • Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #196 on: March 21, 2013, 18:59 »
    Berto didn't need any blood bags ;)
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  • Echoes

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #197 on: March 21, 2013, 20:16 »
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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #198 on: March 21, 2013, 20:20 »


    Hell, those ears.. Thats definate growth hormone at work.

    its well known they test on mice :D
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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #199 on: March 21, 2013, 23:49 »
    source???

    meaning might confirm whether or not either of them received more than just training plans.

    Sorry if my meaning was not clear. 

    these two have been well known for a while.

    they have been known for ages - but evidence to be able to ban them would be nice.  They are still riding after all.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #200 on: March 21, 2013, 23:57 »
    meaning might confirm whether or not either of them received more than just training plans.

    Sorry if my meaning was not clear. 

    they have been known for ages - but evidence to be able to ban them would be nice.  They are still riding after all.

    Well Lulu is suspended and living on fairly borrowed time.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #201 on: March 22, 2013, 00:04 »
    The real standout one that has yet to be identified is 23 - Poras Bis

    10 bags in storage which is similar to the amounts being held by the Liberty riders that would have ridden the Tour. Almost certainly a rider that was going to transfuse during the tour, was still having transfusions in May and June.

    Think that will be the big news.

    Porras is Mancebo, so who is Porras Bis?

    Bis in Spanish is "encore", so "Mancebo Encore?"
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  • « Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 00:19 by Dim »

    AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #202 on: March 22, 2013, 05:28 »
    Well Lulu is suspended and living on fairly borrowed time.

    he is suspended by his team pending their investigation.  Not actually being investigated by UCI, Spanish federation or WADA.    Big difference.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #203 on: March 22, 2013, 09:04 »
    The real standout one that has yet to be identified is 23 - Poras Bis

    10 bags in storage which is similar to the amounts being held by the Liberty riders that would have ridden the Tour. Almost certainly a rider that was going to transfuse during the tour, was still having transfusions in May and June.

    Think that will be the big news.

    Porras is Mancebo, so who is Porras Bis?

    Bis in Spanish is "encore", so "Mancebo Encore?"

    Yes. In all Latin languages, it means "again" or "repeat", so it could be another, distinct Mancebo tapping. Or else it was that of a close colleague of his who Mancebo introduced.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #204 on: March 22, 2013, 10:43 »
    Yes. In all Latin languages, it means "again" or "repeat", so it could be another, distinct Mancebo tapping. Or else it was that of a close colleague of his who Mancebo introduced.

    my thought was the 2nd
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #205 on: March 22, 2013, 14:33 »
    Its not Mancebo's second identity. He already has about 20 bags stored under Porras, more under another name would be silly..

    Just looking at the 2005 Illes Balears lineup, the same old names pop up, Gutierrez, Osai, Valverde, Arrieta...

    Same old names.. Couple of wildcards.. Vladimir Karpets, Xabier Zandio. And for some reason Juan Manuel Gárate keeps apearing on my doping radar.



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  • barrus

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #206 on: March 22, 2013, 19:06 »
    Fuentes attorney stated that from 2007-2009 Fuentes worked for Real Madrid, Real even still owes him money

    http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #207 on: March 22, 2013, 20:15 »
    Fuentes attorney stated that from 2007-2009 Fuentes worked for Real Madrid, Real even still owes him money

    http://www.nu.nl/sport/3377897/fuentes-werkte-real-madrid-van-2007-2009.html

    Funny that.. could have sworn that was around the time that Greenedges doctor, Manuel Rodriguez Alonso was also working there. :D
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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #208 on: March 23, 2013, 01:43 »
    and in english

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/22/blood-doping-trial-fuentes-real-madrid?CMP=twt_gu

    does he have a death wish or something?    he is playing a very hard game now
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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #209 on: March 23, 2013, 02:07 »
    sibling discount huh?   maybe thats why Andy didnt get caught paying ....
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