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Dim

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Re: Operation Puerto
« Reply #270 on: August 28, 2013, 15:18 »
Did someone by any chance get hold on the other Puerto Tomo's than those already included in the document-topic? I'm trying to dig into it after the French Senat report.

I found Tomo IV, X, XI and XIII as well as a lot of separate pages from other Tomo's. Especially a complete version of the Tomo's I, II and III would be a lot of help for further analysis.

Sadly no, ive been digging and talking to people but to no avail.

I have chunks of Tomo III. This has the basso stuff, a bunch of calendars, and someone at Gazetta has access to Tommo III as this has the Cippollini stuff but ive not managed to get hold of a copy.

Tomo 1 is the one people want to get their hands on. Spoke to a guy in spain a while back and he has seen the bulk of it, but said that huge sections of it were missing. Most of what remains has been published, its largely the Liberty Seguros calendars and its fair to assume that most of the missing stuff refers to Liberty as well. Its these missing pages that fuel the controversy over Contador and if he was protected. Certainly from what I know, Tomo 1-3 are mainly concerning cyclists, rider calendars, personal notes etc, very likely that 5 to 9 has teh stuff on non cylists. Bits and bobs of this have appeared (football stuff), but very little.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #271 on: August 28, 2013, 15:29 »
    Someone who should be spoken to is Carlos Arribbas. He has seen all of Tomo 1-3 but is very selective on what he decides to share with and report on.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #272 on: August 28, 2013, 17:15 »
    Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #273 on: August 28, 2013, 18:18 »
    Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?
    Lack of Transparency on docs plus Internet Access equals Conspiracy Heaven.

    I am of the opposite opinion, but I do not have any hard evidence, just pure speculation and McInternet NonConspiracy.

    If Contador was mixed up in Puerto and was mentioned, or more able to be deciphered, someone somewhere would have sold the story by now given he is such a huge star.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #274 on: August 28, 2013, 19:42 »
    Lack of Transparency on docs plus Internet Access equals Conspiracy Heaven.

    I am of the opposite opinion, but I do not have any hard evidence, just pure speculation and McInternet NonConspiracy.

    If Contador was mixed up in Puerto and was mentioned, or more able to be deciphered, someone somewhere would have sold the story by now given he is such a huge star.

    I thought Contador was just one of several cases in which codenames had been incorrectly identified as particular riders. Can someone confirm that?
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #275 on: August 30, 2013, 07:38 »
    I thought Contador was just one of several cases in which codenames had been incorrectly identified as particular riders. Can someone confirm that?

    I remember seeing a calender with the markings "AC" on it that fit with what Contador had ridden for that year.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #276 on: August 30, 2013, 09:24 »
    I remember seeing a calender with the markings "AC" on it that fit with what Contador had ridden for that year.

    Fair enough. I remember now that I had read somewhere that it could have been Antonio Colóm but if the schedules match so precisely, I guess it's kind of obvious. ;)
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #277 on: August 30, 2013, 09:36 »
    Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #278 on: August 30, 2013, 09:56 »
    Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?

    some were both from memory
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #279 on: August 30, 2013, 16:00 »
    Weren't there files and calendars for all the LS riders? I did not see the calendar DB is talking about but I wonder, was it a doping calendar or just a race calendar?

    I can't seem to find it again, I found a team calendar for Contador marked "ALB" in the files, had some asterixes, but nothing like a dope calendar.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #280 on: August 30, 2013, 16:13 »
    Ah yes that calendar was posted on this forum too but it was just a race calendar I thought.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #281 on: August 30, 2013, 17:31 »
    Ah yes that calendar was posted on this forum too but it was just a race calendar I thought.

    Yes, the "ALB" one was, I remember seeing one labeled AC, for doping, but I can't seem to find it, I may be wrong in my recolection though.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #282 on: August 30, 2013, 18:39 »
    Yes, the "ALB" one was, I remember seeing one labeled AC, for doping, but I can't seem to find it, I may be wrong in my recolection though.

    I am sure dim would know if such a calendar is out there on the interwebs
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #283 on: August 30, 2013, 19:03 »
    The calendar for Contador is captioned "ALB" and is purely a race calendar.

    There were two calendars on the whole for liberty riders, one a race calender supplied by the team on Liberty Paper, the other then put together by Fuentes which included the doping schedule. Theres a fair few missing.

    the numbered liberty calendars from Tomo 1 are as below.

    3-7 missing
    8, Angel Vicioso
    9, Nozal;
    10, Heras,
    11, Andrle;
    12, missing
    13,  Amateurs (AMA)
    14, Hruska
    15, Jesus Hernandez
    16, Igor
    17-22 missing
    23, Allan Davis;
    24, Jaksche
    25, missing
    26, Scarponi
    27, Etxebarría;
    28, Beloki;
    29, Igor second one
    30, missing
    31, Calender for the Tour
    32-36, Missing
    unnumbered - Contador (Code ALB)
    unnumbered - Serrano

    So a lot of the original Liberty Calendars are missing, but they are just the ones that the team gave to Fuentes with the rider schedules on at the start of the year. From that, he would then draw up seperate doping calendars.  There was a liberty calendar present for Alberto.

    An awful lot of Tomo one is missing though.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #284 on: August 30, 2013, 19:04 »
    As far as I know, there is no doping calendar marked "AC" (but there are huge swathes of doping calendars missing". From memory "ac" was included on a handwritten note, and in the evidence notes from the civil guard

    (there are more doping calendars "vanished" than there are present ;))
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  • Dim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #285 on: August 30, 2013, 19:06 »
    Perhaps I'm just being ignorant but I can't see a reason why Alberto would be protected and for example Piti not?

    Piti was protected.

    It was the italians who got him after they illegal raided the bloodbank, got his bag, and then hit him when the tour crossed into italy.  But he was certainly protected by the spanish. (as were many)
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #286 on: September 02, 2013, 11:02 »
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #287 on: October 10, 2013, 00:59 »
    Lulu dumped by Belkin with two years left on his contract.
    http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/373938/
    reached settlement apparently. (chances are theyve paid his contract to get him off the books pending some revelations)
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #289 on: February 02, 2014, 15:29 »
    Don't name Berto please :shh
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #290 on: February 02, 2014, 15:34 »
    https://twitter.com/rorymasini/status/429998067299786752

     :D

    How is this "breaking" ? He was saying as much as early as 2007.

    It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #291 on: February 02, 2014, 15:39 »
    How is this "breaking" ? He was saying as much as early as 2007.

    It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.

    same way a certain cycling news website uses the words exclusive

    as I said on twitter hope he does this time
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #292 on: February 02, 2014, 15:39 »
    It will only be "breaking" if and when he starts retching up hairballs full of names.

    Preferably a whole lot of Tennis and Football players  since those documents were destroyed in the Puerto investigation.
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    L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #293 on: February 02, 2014, 16:05 »
    Preferably a whole lot of Tennis and Football players  since those documents were destroyed in the Puerto investigation.

    Several years ago, he told Le Monde that he would be made to disappear if he named names. He backtracked on that a lot later but I see no reason to doubt the essence of it. Fuentes' best choice would be to watch his words because a lot of folks will be watching him.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #294 on: February 02, 2014, 16:19 »
    Several years ago, he told Le Monde that he would be made to disappear if he named names. He backtracked on that a lot later but I see no reason to doubt the essence of it. Fuentes' best choice would be to watch his words because a lot of folks will be watching him.

    If Fuentes wanted to say something, he would have done so by now.

    In my opinion, it not about being frightened, it is that he doesn't think he has done anything wrong.

    You can see that from his defence at the trial.

    I see no sort of repentance whosoever and if he was allowed he would reopen his doping clinic in a nanosecond.

    It is hard to figure out who is the worst Fuentes, Ferrari or Conconi.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #295 on: February 02, 2014, 16:26 »
    It is hard to figure out who is the worst Fuentes, Ferrari or Conconi.

    Conconi was a mad scientist, a Dr Frankenstein who believed he was furthering human endeavour and even doped himself for research purposes.

    Ferrari and Fuentes are both incredibly vain, self-absorbed, power-hungry, attention seeking and probably sociopathic.

    Not much of anything good to choose between them. ;)
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #296 on: February 02, 2014, 16:36 »
    Don't name Berto please :shh

    now why would he be naming contador behind..., you know what, fuentes dont even know no Contador.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #297 on: December 04, 2014, 09:21 »
    https://twitter.com/bambula/status/540434147563823104

    GT

    Basso on Operacion Puerto: It was a black period
    By Rasmus Staghøj 04. December 2014 09:41
    Ivan Basso is currently around and smile at Gran Canaria. That smile is his trademark. "The smiling killer," he called, because he looks loyal friend, but 'kills' its competitors on the bike.

    But in 2006 the smile faded from Ivan Basso. He was caught in doping case Operacion Puerto, and after first denying all knowledge, he admitted that he had paid doping doctor Eufemiano Fuentes for doping treatment which he claims that it never reached to implement fully. It provided a dopingdom and sacked from Bjarne Riis, where Basso was the big star.
    Also read: Basso and Riis' dubious past
    Today Ivan Basso 37 years old, and he is back with Bjarne Riis, who right now has its riders at training camp in Gran Canaria. He has long refused to talk about doping case, which he later commented in connection with Eufemiano Fuentes' trial in 2013. Basso could hardly remember anything. It was so long ago, he said. Therefore, he has never shared very many details about the doping network, he was part of. But one thing he has stated. He was alone, and his former Team CSC did not know anything about doping plans.
    The details held Basso still for himself when TV 2 Sport yesterday met Italy's training camp in Gran Canaria. But he told how he has handled the situation since then.
    Also read: Bjarne Riis did not care about doping past
    - That's seven years ago, and it's better to think of the next year than in the past. After that time, I have done very well with a victory in the Giro d'Italia and two podium finishes in Grand Tours. The only problem with that is seven years ago is that I also was seven years older. It makes it harder for me to win.
    - What happened then was a black period in my career, but I use all my energy to restart and rebuild trust from the people. Secondly, in the past now. I have done many good things for the next seven years and I will continue to do.
    Also read: Riis about Basso old doping: It was a huge mistake
    Operacion Puerto was cycling history's biggest doping, which involved the greatest riders like Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich and Tyler Hamilton. Basso's involvement was nearly cost Team CSC life in the big bike field. Bjarne Riis was forced to fire Basso as a result of the case, though he would rather have kept him. The then Team boss was disappointed Basso as he had accumulated an almost familial relationship.
    Riis told in connection with the new contract with Basso, the past is past and that Basso deserves a second chance. Also with him.
    - He knows that it was a huge mistake at the time, said Bjarne Riis.
    The huge error has Ivan Basso spent all his time to remedy, he says.
    - Of course I am not happy about what I did, but life goes on. The most important thing is that you must understand that you will be working in the right direction. We are talking about a period of seven years ago. It is a long time. And I have not been to the beach in the last seven years. I ran on my bike, and I've run with good results. I have regained confidence from the people. It does not stop, but restart and gain confidence from the people.
    Doping case and the problems of 2006 have not been mentioned in connection with the new contract, tells both Riis and Basso. And the good is generally not to talk about it. Take action instead, think Basso.
    - No, we're not talking about what happened seven years ago. We have talked about what should happen in the future. At the beginning of this interview we talked about the captains and our strong riders. That is what we should focus on. It does not mean much to people what I say about it, but what I do. People will not hear me, they want to see action and I think I over the last seven years have shown what I need.
    Today Ivan Basso at a different level than that which made him one of today's best GC riders. He can not win a Grand Tour, and that's why he picked the Tinkoff-Saxo as a domestique. Basso will lead Alberto Contador to victory in the Tour de France. The role he has really good about.
    - The goal is this: to be ready when the team needs me. It is no less ambition than in the past, it is a great ambition. Usually I'm only responsible for myself, but in this case, I also take responsibility for a captain. It is a new role, but I am happy and believe that it is good for my career.
    Da Basso was last on the team, it was Danish and much has happened since then. Oleg Tinkov bought the team and made the Russian and new riders have come to. But one thing has not changed, says Basso.
    - Seven years ago, it was one of the best teams, and today it is also one of the world's best teams. The mentality is still that when you are the best, you have to work hard to remain the best. There will always be a team that will try to beat you, so you have to have the mentality. This applies right from Oleg Tinkov and down to the team.


    Not much in that biut more than before I guess
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #298 on: December 05, 2014, 09:17 »
    Basso could hardly remember anything. It was so long ago, he said. Therefore, he has never shared very many details about the doping network, he was part of. But one thing he has stated. He was alone, and his former Team CSC did not know anything about doping plans.

    So that is why he hasn't said more, he couldn't remember.  :lol

    So he couldn't remember who was involved, but he could remember that the people he couldn't remember didn't work for Team CSC  :shh



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  • L'arri

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #299 on: February 10, 2015, 10:37 »
    Puerto rumbles on. And on and on, grumbles Carlos Arribas in yesterday's edition of El Pais.

    Sixteen months after the Puerto judgement, a decision has still to be made over what should become of the remaining blood bags in storage. The case, we are told, is in the hands of Judge Alejandro Benito who reportedly has yet to even start work on it, let alone hand down a judgement.

    http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2015/02/09/actualidad/1423511559_098370.html (ES)
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