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Joelsim

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Re: Operation Puerto
« Reply #330 on: January 13, 2016, 10:45 »
The question is who? Will they be current, high profile athletes or retired, foreign nobodies? I strongly suspect that many of the blood bags will somehow happen to be "untestable". The rest will simply confirm what we knew (Valverde, Basso, Mancebo, Sevilla etc) and possibly some long retired smaller names in other sports but that will be about it.

Fuentes offered to give his full client list on the stand in court - his reward was immediate removal from the courtroom. He's also received several death threats. Nothing ground breaking will come of this, everything that was permitted came out in 2006.

I guess it all depends on how much money he is offered.

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  • 42x16ss

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #331 on: January 13, 2016, 12:07 »
    I guess it all depends on how much money he is offered.
    And who the benefactors are.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #332 on: April 13, 2016, 12:51 »
    https://twitter.com/SkyOrla/status/720216047064903681

    June is the end of statue of limitations so not long now 
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    Joelsim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #333 on: April 14, 2016, 00:45 »
    No decision in sight.

    Statute of Limitations ends in June.

    Make of that what you will.

    FWIW...money, cover-up, lawyers, money, reputations, damage limitation, lawyers, money, seedy sh*t, money, cover-up.

    FFS.
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  • just some guy

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    just some guy

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    just some guy

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    Havetts

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #339 on: June 14, 2016, 12:02 »
    Holy crap, this is such big news with potentially huge consequences. Lets hope they actively chase after finding out to which bloodbag every single one belongs.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #341 on: June 14, 2016, 12:53 »
    wow - huge news
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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #342 on: June 14, 2016, 13:28 »
    I will be interested to see how (or if) they go about trying to set aside the statute of limitations.

    As I understand it, the SOL applies in a way that the time is from the time of the offense until the start of proceedings against the athlete.

    The blood bags were discovered in 2006 or so ... and were handed to authorities at that time.   Will be interested to see if they can argue that proceedings started back then against all athletes whose blood was seized.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #343 on: June 14, 2016, 13:56 »
     There may be the odd, "mystery" cyclist left in the pro peloton, but surely we already know most of the names?
    As for the 12 athletes, they have become the equivalent of cyclists in the noughties: soft targets. Everybody now expects athletes to be dabbling in the dark arts.
    Meanwhile, not a Real or Barca footballer in sight, never mind a certain Mallorcan tennis player.
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #344 on: June 14, 2016, 14:02 »
    I will be interested to see how (or if) they go about trying to set aside the statute of limitations.
    They scrapped the SoL in the USADA case against Lance et al., with some rather imaginative arguments.
    If they really wanted to, they could do the same here.

    The question is: Do they want to?
    I'm not holding my breath. :shh
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    AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #345 on: June 14, 2016, 14:08 »
    they applied some very vague reasoning in the Armstrong case - reaching and stretching in ways that were never tested.

    If Armstrong had gone to arbitration and argued against the SOL ,... there is a fairly good chance he would have won that.  But he didnt, so USADA's argument was allowed as it was the only one presented.


    Will be interesting to see if WADA, UCI or any other agency wants to try it on.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #346 on: June 14, 2016, 14:57 »
    They scrapped the SoL in the USADA case against Lance et al., with some rather imaginative arguments.
    If they really wanted to, they could do the same here.

    As far as I remember that was a peculiarity of US law, where the SoL could be removed if there was an indication that an individual had taken action to defraud an investigation[1].

    I don't know if that is a globally-applied maxim.

    And that is before you get to questions of motivation to act at all...
     1. Or something...
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #347 on: June 14, 2016, 15:09 »
    Let's hope the truth will out and the names we all suspect of being complicit in this are finally outed and punished.

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    just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #349 on: June 14, 2016, 16:57 »
    Despite the ruling I can't seem to  get that excited about this. With the passing of the statute of limitations there will be no sanctions so beyond a round of "I told you so" and "I never suspected him" it might go out with more of a whimper than a bang.

    Here's a picture of everyone's favourite comedy doper Ricco. He's the only guy who'll probably ask for his bag back so he can use it...

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #350 on: June 14, 2016, 19:34 »
    When I first saw the news I assumed it meant ALL the blood bags, but it seems Spain is still protecting Real and Barca (and probably Nadal) and throwing Cycling under the bus. If there had not been so much noise around doping in athletics in the past few years I suspect even fewer blood bags would have been released in this judgement.
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  • Race Radio

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #351 on: June 15, 2016, 09:39 »
    they applied some very vague reasoning in the Armstrong case - reaching and stretching in ways that were never tested.

    If Armstrong had gone to arbitration and argued against the SOL ,... there is a fairly good chance he would have won that.  But he didnt, so USADA's argument was allowed as it was the only one presented.


    Will be interesting to see if WADA, UCI or any other agency wants to try it on.

    Nope. Tolling the SOL is a well established legal procedure. WADA commissioned a independent review of USADA's use of it and they verified it. WADA is already exploring the possibility here, but I think that will be much harder.

    Back on topic. Claissciomano = Flecha.
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  • « Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 14:46 by Race Radio »
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    Joelsim

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #352 on: June 15, 2016, 09:58 »
    When I first saw the news I assumed it meant ALL the blood bags, but it seems Spain is still protecting Real and Barca (and probably Nadal) and throwing Cycling under the bus. If there had not been so much noise around doping in athletics in the past few years I suspect even fewer blood bags would have been released in this judgement.

    But some of the bags were 'lost in the post' years ago weren't they?

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  • AG

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #353 on: June 15, 2016, 10:16 »
    Nope. Tolling the SOL is a well established legal procedure. WADA commissioned a independent review of USADA's use of it and they verified it. WADA is already exploring the possibility here, but I think that will be much harder.

    Back on topic. Cowboy = Flecha.

    Their use of it was ok - legal and valid - but unchallenged.

    They argued that Armstrong was involved in a conspiracy to defraud and dope the team - and therefore the SOL should be set aside because he actively attempted to bypass the enforcement.

    His lawyers would have had a good argument against this - and it would have been interesting to see what the arbitration would have ruled.    Because he refused to go to arbitration, the panel of arbitrators decided that the arguments were valid.

    Essentially if they only hear one side of the argument, its pretty likely they will go with it.   


    In the case of the Operation Peurto guys, they will be actively arguing against this kind of application of SOL by-pass
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  • Race Radio

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #354 on: June 15, 2016, 10:31 »

    In the case of the Operation Peurto guys, they will be actively arguing against this kind of application of SOL by-pass

    I think it will be hard for WADA to toll the SOL with the Puerto bags as there is less evidence of efforts to obstruct official investigations.

    I disagree that USADA's tolling would not have held up. WADA's independent review agreed

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-will-not-appeal-usada-decision-on-lance-armstrong/

    It was not the first USADA case were the SOL was tolled, they were also successful with Hellebuyck. With Puerto WADA's strategy would likely hing on if riders lied to an official investigation. I wonder if Spain or Portugal ever really investigated it?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #355 on: June 15, 2016, 12:15 »
    I think it will be hard for WADA to toll the SOL with the Puerto bags as there is less evidence of efforts to obstruct official investigations.
    It wasn't as much obstructing of official investigations as it was the official investigation sitting on its hands.

    But I guess one could argue that this wasn't the athletes' fault.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #357 on: July 06, 2016, 08:41 »
    Quote
    Eufemiano’s defense claims that “the bags were obtained in a patient/doctor situation, in a strictly private manner and that they should remain this way”.

    To his belief turning over the bags violates the most fundamental right to privacy, intimacy and confidentiality between a patient and a doctor, and therefore since he was absolved the bags should be returned to him.

    “The outcome of turning over the bags will be the public bashing of the donors only to satisfy the sick prying of some parts of society.“
    He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.
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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #358 on: July 09, 2016, 16:44 »
    He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.

    I my self also am conflicted in this.

    On one side I think it will be good for cycling to finally get these names out in the open, so we can close this chapter once and for all

    On the other side there is also no doubt in my mind that handing over the BB's ultimately is wrong. The BB's were obtained for a different case altogether and Doping was at the time not a crime in Spain. How a legal investigations material can then later be turned over to someone else, not even with the police, is confusing to me. It seems at the core unjust.

    So while whoever this injustice may hit ultimately may deserve what they get, I am not sure that I am happy with a ruling that sacrifices justice in the system for a preceived sense of justice against a few individuals.

    That being said, when this will happen I do hope it will be not just cycling as well.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Operation Puerto
    « Reply #359 on: July 12, 2016, 13:12 »
    He has a point  :slow unfortunately patient-doctor confidentiality doesn't mean much in court.
    They weren't classic patients with a classic doctor though. They went to Fuentes specifically to improve their athletic ability, not to treat a disease. Fuentes just happens to be a doctor (in gynaecology).
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