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Arb

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Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2013, 15:30 »
Just for the record this is worth a follow https://twitter.com/UCI_Underpants  :D

Yeh, exactly!

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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #91 on: May 02, 2013, 19:59 »
    There will be a statement coming from Cyclismas later today, and Velonation should have a much more thorough report on what is actually going on as well.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #92 on: May 02, 2013, 20:04 »
    Kimmage disappointed over issues involving defence fund

    There will be a statement coming from Cyclismas later today, and Velonation should have a much more thorough report on what is actually going on as well.

    FWIW I think this will be the death of Cyclismas
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #93 on: May 02, 2013, 20:06 »
    Kimmage disappointed over issues involving defence fund

    FWIW I think this will be the death of Cyclismas

    wait till you get the full story...

    I think the velonation piece will shed a lot of light on the whole thing. I also think that CN's role in how this  was reported could be viewed in a very interesting light.

    As a note from admin. It is known we have a relationship with cyclismas exchanging advertising links with them. the decision to temporarily suspend this has been agreed with them, and is purely a temporary decision pending full statement and clarification from cyclismas over the issue.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #94 on: May 02, 2013, 20:10 »
    wait till you get the full story...

    I think the velonation piece will shed a lot of light on the whole thing. I also think that CN's role in how this  was reported could be viewed in a very interesting light.

    will do , I wonder where they got their information from ?
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  • ram

    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #95 on: May 02, 2013, 20:19 »
    FWIW I think this will be the death of Cyclismas
    How so? As a satirical site, they've finally got people laughing at their work

    [brown nose]dim's was usually commentary, so he's not in the satirical lot AFAIK[/brown nose]
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  • « Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 21:01 by ram »

    AG

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #96 on: May 03, 2013, 02:15 »
    FWIW I think this will be the death of Cyclismas

    perhaps.

    The thing is - there may very well be reasonable explanations for things.

    I may be naive and wanting to believe the best about people, but I can see how this could have got to where we are totally innocently.

    The fund was NOT set up well.  We know that.  The money was transferred into Cyclismas trading account, and mixed with Cyclismas general funds.  That generates tax issues for both Aaron Brown and Lesli Cohen (as partners they are each responsible).  As its using Lesli's tax details she says to Aaron 'sort this out'.  He transfers the money and starts to sort it out, but hasnt got to do it fully yet.

    The Cyclismas partnership breaks down, and legal action to sever the relationship is started.  He now doesnt want to pay out the money and be left holding the bag for the tax implications for a fund that wasnt set up properly, so says 'as the legal action is suspended and I have a bit of time, we can deal with everything properly'.

    realistically - none of that is an issue.  It just needs someone to sit down and sort it through.

    I can also see why - if his and Lesli Cohens relationship is substantially acrimonious - he would not be too forthcoming with details in public.

    So while this situation is certainly a concern, I dont think its appropriate to start throwing stones just yet.

    The major questions I have are actually about the set up of the fund in the first place. 

    Why was the money deposited into Cyclismas' account, and why wasnt a non profit organisation started at the time?  and if it was just timing - they had difficulties setting things up, used the Cyclismas account because they already had a paypal account etc -  when Lesli found out that there was a tax issue, why wasnt a non profit started then?   Why did she pass it off to Aaron and not set up a proper purpose account with multi-sign requirements to withdraw the funds?   

    When you start a fund accepting public donations, you have a great deal of responsibilities, and whether or not the situation is resolved,  to my mind none of the people associated with this fund have acted appropriately as trustees in this instance.

    Having publicly donated money in an account where it is accessible by one person alone is NEVER acceptable.

    If Aaron Brown HAS used any funds inappropriately , then he should be held fully responsible, but those who set up this fund and allowed a lax corporate governance where this COULD happen must also accept some responsibility.   They have after all, had plenty of time to remedy any initial difficulties.
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #97 on: May 03, 2013, 02:19 »
    I can also see why - if his and Lesli Cohens relationship is substantially acrimonious - he would not be too forthcoming with details in public.

    Agree with all, expect this bit. It wasnt Lesli or Kimmage that went to CN.. ;)
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  • AG

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #98 on: May 03, 2013, 02:37 »
    yeah that bit puzzles me.  Why would he have gone to CN?

    the only thing I can think of is to try and make them look bad.  To try and make everyone go after him, and then come up with the funds and make them look like the bad guys for slandering him.    But he will still come out of it worse off ...

    dunno.   The whole thing is weird
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  • mew

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #99 on: May 03, 2013, 03:31 »
    well isn't UCI Overlord a friend of DnlBenson's?
    makes sense that CN got the 'scoop' (of cr@p)

    also the UCI Underpants is Overlord...is it not?
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #100 on: May 03, 2013, 03:35 »
    yeah that bit puzzles me.  Why would he have gone to CN?

    the only thing I can think of is to try and make them look bad.  To try and make everyone go after him, and then come up with the funds and make them look like the bad guys for slandering him.   

    :tick
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #101 on: May 03, 2013, 03:36 »
    somethings gone wrong with teh quote colouring.. will fix it tomorrow.. very odd..
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  • ram

    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #102 on: May 03, 2013, 04:43 »
    Why is Benson being blamed in all this? What wrong did he do? Print a story saying 60k is missing? It’s still unaccounted, in fact, even more.
    Nice time to bring this out


    Least the site and the other party can be blamed of is complete negligence.

    Being an outsider from the rather inbred (for want of a better word) twitter fan community, how is it that these people get into this partial fame? How is it that a Tracy Gaudry reposted stuff of Underling’s (which contained Jono's article, else I'd not have known) when Jono was trotting the yards out for the Oceania tour and the lines out for various publications. All for being a typewriter monkey? Weird.

    PS-I’ll admit I’m nothing more than a typewriter monkey.

    ETA- tinypic upload's grouse btw.
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  • « Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 06:56 by ram »

    sublimit

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #103 on: May 03, 2013, 10:50 »
    well isn't UCI Overlord a friend of DnlBenson's?
    makes sense that CN got the 'scoop' (of cr@p)

    also the UCI Underpants is Overlord...is it not?

    Perhaps.   There was a guy following me calling himself Not Aaron Brown until the account closed suddenly yesterday, Then I saw this recently -  https://twitter.com/notucioverlord.
     Seems like UCI overlord is not very high in the popularity stakes.

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  • AG

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #104 on: May 04, 2013, 10:37 »
    finally something I can read and not beat my head against the wall

    http://www.cyclismas.com/2013/05/no-good-deed/

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  • benotti69

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #105 on: May 04, 2013, 11:22 »
    Can someone update me on who is Aaron Brown? Why did he go to Girona? Is it part of his work?

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  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    doolols

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #106 on: May 04, 2013, 11:30 »
    finally something I can read and not beat my head against the wall

    http://www.cyclismas.com/2013/05/no-good-deed/
    I read that earlier. A great piece without the histrionics from some quarters.


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  • « Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 12:46 by doolols »

    ram

    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #107 on: May 04, 2013, 12:46 »
    Tbh, that's a pointless article. What's she saying?

    Quote
    I’m unwilling to presume any intentional wrongdoing occurred until it’s proven in a court of law. What’s best for everyone is to put the paperwork on the table and let the lawyers figure out how to minimize the fallout.
    Doesn't presume intentional wrongdoing in this and showing screenshots of fund transfers. Unless I'm missing something, can syphoning off funds, or as yet withdrawal without consent, be well intentioned?

    How can one completely lose contact with an account on an internet transaction firm in which it's registered under her name? Serious question, as I'm skint and not on paypal or any other portal. Since when does claims without proof even matter with regards to funds?

    Quote
    On a final note, Mr. Brown is Not Pat McQuaid. Not even close. Give him a chance to redeem himself and to right the wrongs. Let’s get some disclosure going, get some solutions implemented, and deal with the fallout as it comes.
    Actually, Pat McQuaid has had quite a bit of good within a large amount of crap. Where'd the Rising to the Ashes film be without him? Give him another chance to redeem himself.
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  • « Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 13:08 by ram »

    Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #108 on: May 04, 2013, 13:48 »
    Tbh, that's a pointless article. What's she saying?
    Doesn't presume intentional wrongdoing in this and showing screenshots of fund transfers. Unless I'm missing something, can syphoning off funds, or as yet withdrawal without consent, be well intentioned?

    How can one completely lose contact with an account on an internet transaction firm in which it's registered under her name? Serious question, as I'm skint and not on paypal or any other portal. Since when does claims without proof even matter with regards to funds?
    Actually, Pat McQuaid has had quite a bit of good within a large amount of crap. Where'd the Rising to the Ashes film be without him? Give him another chance to redeem himself.



    Basically Anna has tried to explain the situation , but as a neutral, not affiliated with cyclismas, but of course then its printed on the cyclismas site, so it confuses people. For those that dont know, Anna runs the blog 150watts of awesome, she doesnt usually write for cyclismas.

    Its all down to aaron basically to explain himself..

    Siroque not paying their business fees is a slight white elephant. Companies in the Uk regularly dont bother, it just takes you off the company registrar, you can still operate.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #109 on: May 04, 2013, 14:03 »
    Can someone update me on who is Aaron Brown? Why did he go to Girona? Is it part of his work?

    Aaron Brown is the @UCI_Overlord on twitter

    Girona I have no idea I guess to be near cyclists as he thinks he is part of the in crowd now.

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  • kabloemski

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #110 on: May 04, 2013, 14:52 »
    I'm all for transparency and freedom of speech. What does annoy me is the way that people write about this stuff - I never really read Ms Zimmerman's  :rolleye (yes, referring to Mr Kimmage, Mr Brown, Ms Cohen is annoying - she's not writing a legal document, and referring to somebody with a title doesn't make what you are writing more legit, it just seems like a cutesy little trick, and gives me a cramp where I'd rather not have one) stuff before her response re Sagan's bumb grab. That article of hers annoyed me too - it seems that a lot of the people writing about these issues are very concerned about sounding cool and funny and smart. It's not surprising that people like Cyclismas eventually fall prey to the sort of thing they are guilty of themselves. Putting this
    Quote
    In 2012, she dusted off her legal education and began writing about the complexities of the Lance Armstrong case in her blog, 150 Watts of Awesome where her work caught the attention of the Tour de France champion turned disgraced-age-group-swimmer. He began following her on Twitter and even asked her to meet him for coffee, an offer which she politely declined.
    in your 'bio' (or whatever that little bit is called) is a perfect example - why put that there? Is she using Lance Armstrong, who she so greatly disrespects and sees as a fraud, to give her credibility and legitimacy? So LA - whose childishness seems legendary, and who has even been accused of being a psycopath! - noticing your writing and inviting you for coffee makes you what? If LA's such a f*ckup why use that as a claim to fame? I think everybody involved should stop trying to be so darn cool and funny, and start being serious about what they write.
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #111 on: May 04, 2013, 15:09 »
    I'm all for transparency and freedom of speech. What does annoy me is the way that people write about this stuff - I never really read Ms Zimmerman's  :rolleye (yes, referring to Mr Kimmage, Mr Brown, Ms Cohen is annoying - she's not writing a legal document, and referring to somebody with a title doesn't make what you are writing more legit, it just seems like a cutesy little trick, and gives me a cramp where I'd rather not have one) stuff before her response re Sagan's bumb grab. That article of hers annoyed me too - it seems that a lot of the people writing about these issues are very concerned about sounding cool and funny and smart. It's not surprising that people like Cyclismas eventually fall prey to the sort of thing they are guilty of themselves. Putting this  in your 'bio' (or whatever that little bit is called) is a perfect example - why put that there? Is she using Lance Armstrong, who she so greatly disrespects and sees as a fraud, to give her credibility and legitimacy? So LA - whose childishness seems legendary, and who has even been accused of being a psycopath! - noticing your writing and inviting you for coffee makes you what? If LA's such a f*ckup why use that as a claim to fame? I think everybody involved should stop trying to be so darn cool and funny, and start being serious about what they write.

    Agree to an extend about Anna.. theres a degree of self importance about her, I hadnt even heard of her till about 8 months ago and suddenly she appears as this big anti armstrong campaigner, who had been there all along? Kinda frustrated by her tendancy to take existing information, add big words to it, and call it research (or as you call it  a cutesy trick) for this reason I find a lot of anna's stuff a bit unreadable.. its written in far to factually a way than just writing for me...

    That said, there is a legal fight going on between lesli/cyclismas and as such have a "neutral" do the statement, and having it worded in a legal sense, does protect cyclismas to an extent, so that has to be born in mind..

    and yeh, the armstrong coffee thing.. maybe i should add to my bio that i was spotted by the radioshack guys in paris and verbally abused.. or maybe not, its not relevant and it doesnt give me any extra credibility. Festinagirl was also followed by lance, I was followed by Lance.. doesnt make us credible, just makes lance a douche. :D Anna was late to the party, but sometimes acts like she was there all along.
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #112 on: May 04, 2013, 15:30 »
    You can always rely on Shane.

    Velonation may be three days behind everyone else, but a full detailed account of whats going on from all sides.

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/14498/Feature-The-many-questions-about-the-Kimmage-defence-fund.aspx
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #113 on: May 04, 2013, 15:36 »
    Why is Benson being blamed in all this? What wrong did he do? Print a story saying 60k is missing?

    Benson is mates with Brown. Neither Lesli, Kimmage, Andy or Digger gave the story to Benson. Brown did (allegedly). Why? Flip knows
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  • L'arri

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #114 on: May 04, 2013, 17:10 »
    I'm all for transparency and freedom of speech. What does annoy me is the way that people write about this stuff - I never really read Ms Zimmerman's  :rolleye (yes, referring to Mr Kimmage, Mr Brown, Ms Cohen is annoying - she's not writing a legal document, and referring to somebody with a title doesn't make what you are writing more legit, it just seems like a cutesy little trick, and gives me a cramp where I'd rather not have one) stuff before her response re Sagan's bumb grab. That article of hers annoyed me too - it seems that a lot of the people writing about these issues are very concerned about sounding cool and funny and smart. It's not surprising that people like Cyclismas eventually fall prey to the sort of thing they are guilty of themselves. Putting this  in your 'bio' (or whatever that little bit is called) is a perfect example - why put that there? Is she using Lance Armstrong, who she so greatly disrespects and sees as a fraud, to give her credibility and legitimacy? So LA - whose childishness seems legendary, and who has even been accused of being a psycopath! - noticing your writing and inviting you for coffee makes you what? If LA's such a f*ckup why use that as a claim to fame? I think everybody involved should stop trying to be so darn cool and funny, and start being serious about what they write.

    This is right on the (missing) money, Kablinka. The whole Cyclismas business this week has been made worse by this distasteful, self-aggrandizing undercurrent of fame-seeking. Sadly for everyone, the Kimmage Defence Fund case is now inextricably linked to the world of people the journos - their natural arch enemies - like to call (with dripping sarcasm) "Twitter personalities".

    After this week's shenanigans, we're extra-sensitive to this stuff though I think many of us have been aware of it bubbling away for a while, this accretion of epithets and a certain, non-transferable celebrity which have absolutely nothing to do with real people.

    Many of Anna's writings have been interesting, confrontational and righteous, but her hyperbolic schtick kind of grates a bit on this of all stories.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    AG

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #115 on: May 05, 2013, 13:03 »
    The Velonation article is a good in depth explanation

    Here is the legal action from Lesli Cohen

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/139460677/Complaint-Cohen-v-Aaron-Brown-and-Siroque-Holdings-Inc-A2280371

    things are not looking good.  To me that looks like she is saying he has scarpered with not just the Defense fund but a heap of Cyclismas funds too.

    And with the Velonation report suggesting that Brown paid wages etc out of the defense fund - not looking good at all    :(
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  • Zam

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #116 on: May 05, 2013, 13:14 »
    That old adage money and women are the root of all evil   :P  :D
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  • L'arri

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #117 on: May 05, 2013, 13:16 »
    The Velonation article is a good in depth explanation

    Here is the legal action from Lesli Cohen

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/139460677/Complaint-Cohen-v-Aaron-Brown-and-Siroque-Holdings-Inc-A2280371

    things are not looking good.  To me that looks like she is saying he has scarpered with not just the Defense fund but a heap of Cyclismas funds too.

    And with the Velonation report suggesting that Brown paid wages etc out of the defense fund - not looking good at all    :(

    Well now, I'd thought some of those embezzlement claims seemed a bit far-fetched - and this is only one party's account, of course - but reading this, some of this alleged behaviour is pretty eyewatering. According to her position, Cohen seems almost completely to have been kept in the dark while Brown dined out on the proceedings.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #118 on: May 05, 2013, 13:28 »
    WTF is this zimmerman clown doing writing for cyclismas? ACF is infinitely more qualified than her on every level.

    Confusing.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    sublimit

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    Re: The Kimmage Defence Fund
    « Reply #119 on: May 05, 2013, 13:37 »
    I dont suppose too many people will be contributing to a "Brown defence fund" if and when he finds himself in deep sh*t. 

    Somebody compared Zimmerman to Anthony Tan at the other place.   Might be pushing it a bit but I find it hard to disagree   :lol
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