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Dim

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Re: The Venting Thread
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2013, 18:51 »
stop now please.
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  • AG

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #181 on: March 12, 2013, 00:55 »
    Why should TV be the only way to get interest in something. Before TV existed, people were already interested in cycling, through newspapers, radio, Cinema news or visiting races and they were equally as passionate, if not more. A friend of mine still listen to live coverage on the radio, in the 21st century. I find it very nice.

    TV is a mass-media and hence favours rich race organizations that get richer and richer. In the 50's small races could gather crowds of 50,000 people. I have pictures in books. It's very impressive. Hence what I said, we are all - tv viewers - accomplices (including myself). Visiting races is the way to go.

    But now, we have the Internet with live streams for many races and articles, profiles, start lists, etc. for almost any races. There's no excuse for Tour obsession.

    :snip

    Evans is a former World Champion and the last two Milan-Sanremo wins are Aussie !


    yes - our access has grown exponentially over the last few years - and support for cycling all over is growing in Australia as a result.  But that is relatively new.

    Until a few years ago, we didnt have radio or newspaper coverage, or tv.  Nothing.  Cycling may as well not have existed as a sport outside the olympics - and even that focussed on track.

    As for going to a race ... you are talking to people on an english speaking website here.  Predominately people in US, UK and Aus (though we have some lucky ones in countries where they do actually race - but not that many)    Most of us dont get to go to races where they have great quality athletes ...

    support for the classics, and for other races outside the Tour is building. 

    But you have to be realistic - that doesnt mean that people will not talk about the Tour.  Its seen as the grandfinal, the epitomy of the season - and people will refer to that and look forward to it ...  especially when the riders themselves see it as all-important.


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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #182 on: March 12, 2013, 08:46 »
    Really? Well if you do that, you're my hero !  :D

    I admit it. But sometimes, there's overdose. Too much is too much. There are much better things to do in winter than ... waiting for the Tour of France. Really, I can't understand that.
    If there is big news regarding the classics, it will be discussed on a forum like this, no matter how far away the start of those classics actually is.

    I can only speak for this forum, since I barely read CN, but I don't see the Tour obsession. Sure, it is the biggest race in the sport (sorry, bigger than the classics - though definitely not more fun) so it's going to be discussed. However, as mentioned, there was more discussion on the Giro than on the Tour during the off-season, and there have been multiple topics on the classics and other races as well.

    But most importantly, there is little to no Tour-talk in other topics not related to the Tour. That means that if you want to ignore the 'Tour obsession', all you have to ignore is those topics, while you can be nice and active in all other topics.

    Because ironically, your posts have caused a long discussion about the Tour in this otherwise unrelated thread, and most of your recent posts on this forum are about the Tour. All that while the rest of us have been enjoying discussions on Tirreno, Milano-Sanremo, doping, and Richie Porte's future to name some things. Now who's obsessed? :P
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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #183 on: March 12, 2013, 08:48 »
    Vive le Tour















     :lol
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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #184 on: March 12, 2013, 18:09 »
    Until a few years ago, we didnt have radio or newspaper coverage, or tv.  Nothing.  Cycling may as well not have existed as a sport outside the olympics - and even that focussed on track.

    Track is part of cycling and you have a long history of track racing in Oz. When I register on CN, the track section was very active.

    And did you know that Hincapie got to cycling watching CBS report on Paris-Roubaix (OK it's still ASO but an exciting race):    . So how can interest so suddenly get lost?

    As for going to a race ... you are talking to people on an english speaking website here.  Predominately people in US, UK and Aus (though we have some lucky ones in countries where they do actually race - but not that many)    Most of us dont get to go to races where they have great quality athletes ...

    But why not? I don't know if there are races around where you live but there are enough road races in Oz, aren't there?

    Besides, I thought these boards were rather international, with many posters from several countries of Continental Europe.

    But you have to be realistic - that doesnt mean that people will not talk about the Tour.  Its seen as the grandfinal, the epitomy of the season - and people will refer to that and look forward to it ...  especially when the riders themselves see it as all-important.

    Makes me think of a quote by singer Pete Seeger, that I really love: "Normally, I don't believe in big things, you know. I believe the world will be saved by millions of small things." Just think about it.  ;)

    Quote from: Slow Rider
    (sorry, bigger than the classics - though definitely not more fun)

    What I don't understand is that you all seem to think it's boring and still watch it. Personally, I wouldn't be able to hold this sadomasochism for years. In 2007, I wasn't able to watch it at all because I had to write my dissertation in July and surprised myself not missing it at all, so I decided not to watch it again, and still not miss it for a million.

    Quote from: Slow Rider
    However, as mentioned, there was more discussion on the Giro than on the Tour during the off-season

    Yes, when another race is discussed, that would be the Giro, which in my opinion is equally as boring (a pale copy of the Tour of France). But the other races rarely get a mention except the day they take place.

    Quote from: Slow Rider
    Because ironically, your posts have caused a long discussion about the Tour in this otherwise unrelated thread, and most of your recent posts on this forum are about the Tour. All that while the rest of us have been enjoying discussions on Tirreno, Milano-Sanremo, doping, and Richie Porte's future to name some things. Now who's obsessed?

    I'm not online 24h/day. I've posted on many different things since registering here and you know it but most of the time, that's talking on empty while it's just my third post on this debate, so it's not my fault if it's long.

    Oh by the way, I should've said it earlier but don't take all my posts personally, you're a very interesting poster.   ;)

    On CN, I would start threads about all the races that I feel strongly about: Tro Bro Léon, 4 Days of Dunkirk, the late U23 Paris-Roubaix and the most important cyclocross events. I even started a general debate on Flandrian cycling which seemed to interest a lot of posters back then but ultimately, these threads were silenced by all this stupid verbal jousting between Contadortards and Schlecktards. And you'd say it's my fault?

    I'm not saying this out of megalomania. It's just sad for all these smaller races, most of which have financial problems, races that build up this sport. Cycling is less and less popular overall and when I see some of its fans, I think perhaps it deserves what it gets.
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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #185 on: March 12, 2013, 18:34 »
    1st echoes what happened or happens on other forums has no place here, it is our policy which we try to stick to.

    Why not try and make threads on these races, or make comments on existing ones.

    We are trying to get discussions going but being smallish and new it takes time, what I am saying is be part of the solution, not bitch about GT's.

    In my way of looking at things try and make a positive contribution it goes further, plus I am sure people would love more people opening race threads .

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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #186 on: March 12, 2013, 19:19 »
    What I don't understand is that you all seem to think it's boring and still watch it. Personally, I wouldn't be able to hold this sadomasochism for years. In 2007, I wasn't able to watch it at all because I had to write my dissertation in July and surprised myself not missing it at all, so I decided not to watch it again, and still not miss it for a million.
    Oh, I'm not bored by the Tour, not at all. It's incredibly entertaining, just because it is so overhyped, chaotic and crazy. It's just that nothing in cycling even comes close to the spring classics, not even a Giro d'Italia.

    Quote
    I'm not online 24h/day. I've posted on many different things since registering here and you know it but most of the time, that's talking on empty while it's just my third post on this debate, so it's not my fault if it's long.
    Hehe, that was more of a joke than a serious comment, hence the :P

    Quote
    Oh by the way, I should've said it earlier but don't take all my posts personally, you're a very interesting poster.   ;)
    Oh don't worry, I never take anything personal. And none of my posts were meant as a personal attack either, I always appreciate a good discussion like this. Although, when you say things like this

    Quote
    Yes, when another race is discussed, that would be the Giro, which in my opinion is equally as boring (a pale copy of the Tour of France).
    .. it does gets eerily close to personal ;)

    Quote
    On CN, I would start threads about all the races that I feel strongly about: Tro Bro Léon, 4 Days of Dunkirk, the late U23 Paris-Roubaix and the most important cyclocross events. I even started a general debate on Flandrian cycling which seemed to interest a lot of posters back then but ultimately, these threads were silenced by all this stupid verbal jousting between Contadortards and Schlecktards. And you'd say it's my fault?

    I'm not saying this out of megalomania. It's just sad for all these smaller races, most of which have financial problems, races that build up this sport. Cycling is less and less popular overall and when I see some of its fans, I think perhaps it deserves what it gets.
    Agreed there. But then let's fix this the right way: by starting threads and discussion on those smaller races. This forum often has excellent threads on many smaller races outside the traditional cycling countries, courtesy of Ram and DinZ (who, btw, I hope will continue doing that this year). Last year the Sibiu Tour was one of the most discussed races of all. And JSG and Dim (and others) create a thread on every other race they feel deserves discussion too.

    I'd love more discussion on smaller and U23 races, though I have to admit I'm not the most knowledgable on races like that. So if you'd like to start threads on those races, please do, I'm always happy to get to know those races better.
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  • « Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 19:35 by Slow Rider »

    AG

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #187 on: March 12, 2013, 23:44 »
    between Ram, Dinz and Jono L and a few others we have a pretty good coverage of small races (relative to our forum size) ...

    I would love to have your contributions to those.  Some of the smaller races are fantastic - and we have been exposed to an amazing array of them since VR started.

    Ram (our resident expert on these) is busy with study and work right now, so the new threads have been a little lax, but trust me - we will get them going again   :D
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  • DinZ

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #188 on: March 13, 2013, 00:19 »
    between Ram, Dinz and Jono L and a few others we have a pretty good coverage of small races (relative to our forum size) ...

    I would love to have your contributions to those.  Some of the smaller races are fantastic - and we have been exposed to an amazing array of them since VR started.

    Ram (our resident expert on these) is busy with study and work right now, so the new threads have been a little lax, but trust me - we will get them going again   :D

    Strangely there was a point last year where i would say velorooms was one of , if not the, best sites for getting information on smaller races and and having a place to discuss riders and races outside of the world tour. Unfortunately last year the site lost some impetus in this area as a number of contributors became disillusioned by what seemed a movement of the site in general towards a focus on doping and away from racing.

    it is possible that the focus may return this year but i have to say people should not underestimate the amount of effort that went into getting information on some of those races. Even if the combination of doping here, and just plain annoying critical bashers on CN had not stopped me working on those races the volume would have dropped off as changes in work meant i was no longer able to keep up work on the race blog i started. when i started that blog and was updating races during the season it was easily taking 3 or 4 hours a day, including contacting race organisers, teams and riders for information. For some races the only way to gain info would be through contacts made on earlier races, like photographers and soigneurs.

    with enough people willing to contribute (search and Fus are also good sources of info) then it is possible that the smaller races focus can return without putting too high a demand on one or two users.

     
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  • AG

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #189 on: March 13, 2013, 00:23 »
    I put you in as I didnt want to forget you again  :D    But that was not with an expectation that you would do that amount of work again.

    I know that your 'real' work is pretty full on at the moment ... as well as the other stuff about the disillusionment. 

    We do appreciate the effort that you and ram especially put in though, and it was a joy to read and experience the variety of races that you guys showed us.

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  • Dim

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #190 on: March 13, 2013, 00:29 »
    Strangely there was a point last year where i would say velorooms was one of , if not the, best sites for getting information on smaller races and and having a place to discuss riders and races outside of the world tour. Unfortunately last year the site lost some impetus in this area as a number of contributors became disillusioned by what seemed a movement of the site in general towards a focus on doping and away from racing.

    it is possible that the focus may return this year but i have to say people should not underestimate the amount of effort that went into getting information on some of those races. Even if the combination of doping here, and just plain annoying critical bashers on CN had not stopped me working on those races the volume would have dropped off as changes in work meant i was no longer able to keep up work on the race blog i started. when i started that blog and was updating races during the season it was easily taking 3 or 4 hours a day, including contacting race organisers, teams and riders for information. For some races the only way to gain info would be through contacts made on earlier races, like photographers and soigneurs.

    with enough people willing to contribute (search and Fus are also good sources of info) then it is possible that the smaller races focus can return without putting too high a demand on one or two users.

     

    Agree with all of the above.

    I think above all what we have to remember is we are a very young site, and most of the other sites etc have been around a long time, and have a lot of history and it takes us some time to get across our ethos and way of things, so during the tour there was always going to be a bit of historyonics going on.

    Yes, race threads take a huge amount of time and research which is why I appreciate so much how much effort people put into them, and why one of the focus'es of something that is being worked on is really enhancing the way we publicise the lesser races, and the excellent work the members put in.

    you only have to google some of the smaller races from last year and we are top of google, that says a lot.

    last year we were very much finding our feet, mistakes were made, we learnt some things, good and bad, and theres a lot of work going on to really learn from that and develop. Just need a bit of time..
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  • Dim

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #191 on: March 13, 2013, 00:32 »
    And Sibiu tour was the highlight of my cycling year, it was flipping amazing :D
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  • DinZ

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #192 on: March 13, 2013, 00:58 »
    Yeah was not attempting to Martyr myself or want congrats i guess my point is it does take a fair amount of investment to get the smaller races stuff running and needs continual input as that way you get more like minded people coming in. Just wanted to warn people it can be painful.

    seems as if i am on some sort of mailing list for Azerbaijan this year. started getting emails and they linked to me on LinkedIn

    oh and was not wanted to have a go or dredge up old discussions was just making the point that it faded as the three people that contributed most to those threads left the site. well one half left, then came back, then left again, without really leaving, then flounced back, flounced out, and shook it all about.
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  • AG

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #193 on: March 13, 2013, 03:46 »
    well - since this is the vent thread

    my vent for the day is that 3 people I really liked a lot dont post much here - and when they are here they play stupid arcade games.  They should each get their asses back in here just to talk to me!!!   I am important you know - and I just dont do twitter      :D
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  • jobiwan

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #194 on: March 13, 2013, 03:49 »
    well - since this is the vent thread

    my vent for the day is that 3 people I really liked a lot dont post much here - and when they are here they play stupid arcade games.  They should each get their asses back in here just to talk to me!!!   I am important you know - and I just dont do twitter      :D

    There are arcade games here?!?!?!?!

    Thanks Dim, now I won't get anything done!!!  :D
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  • ram

    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #195 on: March 13, 2013, 06:31 »
    Well then, a week and look what's happened here..

    No, I'll not be making new race threads. Work, study, cricket, golf, rugby being telecast properly for the first time in nearly a decade and cycling. Something had to give, and the one with pee weakest coverage got flicked. Can't waste an hour or more on finding info, Dave's were usually comprehensive (and Iranian) and not balls so understandably he took more time. Would rather sit back and watch even McAulay Culkin boffing Megan Fox, which is really much easier with non streaming of races. Maybe in June, but by then Tour fever would be peaking, and definitely not Tour of Qinghai Lake. But again, as Dave alluded to, if nobody else posts, t he thread isn't really worth it. Anyway, others could do it just as well. If I could, anyone can. I do still troll when balls comes to me though, but won't be going out of my way to find said balls.

    As it is, the Asian tour coverage had taken a massive hit with Cyclingiq Cam moving to Europe.

    There's the Asian Continentals going on which is being telecast here with the Indian junior girls also riding with appreciable success, the Oceania continentals start tomorrow (good luck to Jono if you're riding it) I think.

    As for the Tour, it's the only European race live on the telly all year here. It's definitely easier to follow, far more than the Giro and Vuelta which just become irritating to follow searching for streams, and I've never seen the winner ride into the Roubaix velodrome live as bandwidth Nazis get to me by then. And might I add, that's also really down to Armstrong being such a larger than life figure or we'd have zero live coverage of European cycling. But the Tour de France in March, it really doesn't get me excited enough to flick my boogers into the dustbin, but that's just me and the same goes to the classics in May or October.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #196 on: March 13, 2013, 07:48 »
    Strangely there was a point last year where i would say velorooms was one of , if not the, best sites for getting information on smaller races and and having a place to discuss riders and races outside of the world tour. Unfortunately last year the site lost some impetus in this area as a number of contributors became disillusioned by what seemed a movement of the site in general towards a focus on doping and away from racing.

    it is possible that the focus may return this year but i have to say people should not underestimate the amount of effort that went into getting information on some of those races. Even if the combination of doping here, and just plain annoying critical bashers on CN had not stopped me working on those races the volume would have dropped off as changes in work meant i was no longer able to keep up work on the race blog i started. when i started that blog and was updating races during the season it was easily taking 3 or 4 hours a day, including contacting race organisers, teams and riders for information. For some races the only way to gain info would be through contacts made on earlier races, like photographers and soigneurs.

    with enough people willing to contribute (search and Fus are also good sources of info) then it is possible that the smaller races focus can return without putting too high a demand on one or two users.
    I agree totally, finding all this info takes much time. And I only do it if I really care about the race - and even then not always. So I can totally understand DinZ and ram.
    If I have the time and motivation to gather information on obscure races and follow them I may do that. But I will not promise anything.
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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #197 on: March 13, 2013, 10:46 »
    It would be cool if the races got some threads

    with 4-5 people doing them it makes less work, but I agree I know how much time goes into threads and for me the info is easier to find, but some times it is on PDF form talk about a nightmare.

    But re Ram point on only 3 people reading the thread and posting I think 100s of people read them just not post or even give thanks which can seem like you are talking to yourself.

    Same as in the womens side of things, but I try and keep going just if a new member thinks cool they give a sh*t about it and get involved.Having less members does mean than sometimes you think you are talking to yourself , but just because no one writes anything does not mean there is not the views
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #198 on: March 13, 2013, 12:11 »
    It's not just that it takes so long and that only ram and DinZ and bicing post, it's also trying to keep it fresh and interesting when you have no feed. You can do it once or twice but then...

    Otherwise it becomes an area of cliques and in-jokes which don't encourage existing members let alone new ones. The bigger the race, the better the coverage, the more there is to engage with.
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  • ram

    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #199 on: March 13, 2013, 13:18 »
    While some races had next to no coverage- some Malaysian, which did the year before, and the Indonesian lot- others had very good highlights packages. Vietnam was as extensive as Oman's (just that daily half hour 20-30 min highlights were on their website and 100 journalists were not sharing it), Tour of Japan had live streams too (not Fuji, but the stage with 3000 or 4000 m climbing) and Southland streamed an hour each delayed telecast of the stages and even saved it. Yet the latter petered out after Landis pulled out.

    To be fair it's as much to do with personalities, quite logical too and I've got no issues with it. But if it's blog like with nobody else.... I'd not, but main thing is, not got enough time.
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  • Echoes

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #200 on: March 13, 2013, 18:09 »
    Agreed there. But then let's fix this the right way: by starting threads and discussion on those smaller races. This forum often has excellent threads on many smaller races outside the traditional cycling countries, courtesy of Ram and DinZ (who, btw, I hope will continue doing that this year). Last year the Sibiu Tour was one of the most discussed races of all. And JSG and Dim (and others) create a thread on every other race they feel deserves discussion too.

    I'd love more discussion on smaller and U23 races, though I have to admit I'm not the most knowledgable on races like that. So if you'd like to start threads on those races, please do, I'm always happy to get to know those races better.

    I usually follow some U23 races because I love to watch cyclocrossers results in summer, like those of your former avy (shame you changed :'() and the other Rabo Giant's.

    I also closely followed the Tour of Sibiu because the Fidea were there. I even remember that Rob Peeters was disqualified for hanging to his team car.  :D

    Quote from: AG
    I would love to have your contributions to those.  Some of the smaller races are fantastic - and we have been exposed to an amazing array of them since VR started.

    Ram (our resident expert on these) is busy with study and work right now, so the new threads have been a little lax, but trust me - we will get them going again

    If so, be sure I'll make my contribution on the races I like best and those I would discover.  ;)

    Edit: Oh and the problem is, I hate gathering all of these races in a "smaller race thread". I find it degrading. Lol, I'm fussy but if I have to make a contribution of the kind, the race in question deserves a thread of its own.  :D
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  • DinZ

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #201 on: March 13, 2013, 18:37 »
    Echoes, previously we would have the made te effort to do individual threads, it usually depended on the level of info available. If you just had results would stick in smaller races.

    Should reiterate than the main issue is time. The site used to have two lazy bums with not much to do. Now said lazy bums are actually working and that means no coverage. For start i will be continuing in my current role, and therefore spending 15 hours a week on planes and in airports, till at least september. So nothing is happning till then.

    And cavman is right about content. I tried trting a blog and along with time one reason i stopped was there i only so many ways you can describe a bike race....
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  • AG

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #202 on: March 14, 2013, 01:44 »
    Echoes, previously we would have the made te effort to do individual threads, it usually depended on the level of info available. If you just had results would stick in smaller races.

    Should reiterate than the main issue is time. The site used to have two lazy bums with not much to do. Now said lazy bums are actually working and that means no coverage. For start i will be continuing in my current role, and therefore spending 15 hours a week on planes and in airports, till at least september. So nothing is happning till then.

    And cavman is right about content. I tried trting a blog and along with time one reason i stopped was there i only so many ways you can describe a bike race....

     :D   now there is a change  :D
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  • mew

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    • 💜craig walsh💜;💜Krebby💜
    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #203 on: March 23, 2013, 21:29 »
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





     :D


    I feel much better
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  • L'arri

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #204 on: March 23, 2013, 21:53 »
    Every time I scroll down past AG's post above, I see this...



    ... and all I keep seeing is a dirty old man hiding in the trees and vigorously ransacking his dignity.  :rolleye
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
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    mew

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #205 on: March 23, 2013, 22:16 »
    lol!
    exactly my first thought L'arri !
     :D
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  • Shawn Gossman

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #206 on: April 03, 2013, 19:14 »
    My random vents are the drama going on in the USA. Citizens are against citizens even in a time when nuclear threats are being made against us. No one trusts one and other and everyone wants to change each other. It is a sad time to live in a country that was founded for completely opposite reasons. Why can't people just embrace one and other and accept each other's marriage choices, self-defense choices, political opinions, religious opinions and so on... I am more worried about citizens destroying one and other than a nuke reaching mainland...
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  • 2012 Trek 1.1
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    DinZ

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #207 on: April 03, 2013, 23:18 »
    My random vents are the drama going on in the USA. Citizens are against citizens even in a time when nuclear threats are being made against us. No one trusts one and other and everyone wants to change each other. It is a sad time to live in a country that was founded for completely opposite reasons. Why can't people just embrace one and other and accept each other's marriage choices, self-defense choices, political opinions, religious opinions and so on... I am more worried about citizens destroying one and other than a nuke reaching mainland...

    it is interesting can never tell if my impressions of the US are based on stereotypical media impressions we get outside or if it really is that bad. been giving serious thought to moving to the US as my company has a fair amount of work there and just not sure i want to move my kid there. He has grown up in Sydney in an inner city area which i think provides him with a balanced outlook on life. I wonder if the US would unbalance that at all.

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  • Shawn Gossman

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #208 on: April 04, 2013, 02:23 »
    Well I will say this, if you move to a burb or out of the city in America, its a bit better and a bit more peaceful... No disrespect to the city folks though.
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  • mew

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    Re: The Venting Thread
    « Reply #209 on: April 04, 2013, 02:34 »
    it is interesting can never tell if my impressions of the US are based on stereotypical media impressions we get outside or if it really is that bad. been giving serious thought to moving to the US as my company has a fair amount of work there and just not sure i want to move my kid there. He has grown up in Sydney in an inner city area which i think provides him with a balanced outlook on life. I wonder if the US would unbalance that at all.

    Dinzy we are all unbalanced.
    honestly though it would depend on where you raised him..just like anywhere.  :cheesy
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