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Capt_Cavman

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Re: Chris Froome
« Reply #2460 on: December 21, 2017, 11:15 »
I can see your (honourable) intentions - but this would exclude e.g. diabetics. Possibly others with chronic conditions as well.

I know #novonordisk isn't a team of world-beaters, but who's to say there isn't an aspiring junior cyclist somewhere who could become the next Sagan ... just that he has diabetes.
Should he be stopped from pursuing a pro career because of that? No.

The topic of asthma in cyclists & other elite athletes is something of a chicken-egg situation. I don't know enough about it to form an informed opinion; and I am very wary saying that "all asthmatics should just be chucked out".

Also, welcome to VR! :welcome
I think I'm with 58x11

Should we make the rules fuzzy and open to abuse in order that a small number of riders with a particular condition can participate? No.

The rules need to be simplified, either Salbutamol is unfairly performance enhancing, in which case ban it. Or it isn't, in which case allow it as substance which may have some limited benefit like caffeine (or nicotine?) and we can just live with that.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2461 on: December 21, 2017, 18:36 »
    I think I'm with 58x11

    Should we make the rules fuzzy and open to abuse in order that a small number of riders with a particular condition can participate? No.

    The rules need to be simplified, either Salbutamol is unfairly performance enhancing, in which case ban it. Or it isn't, in which case allow it as substance which may have some limited benefit like caffeine (or nicotine?) and we can just live with that.
    Certainly.
    Diabetics (to stay with that group) don't need salbutamol. They need insuline. And they should be allowed to have that insuline.

    Sufferers of exercise-induced asthma could medicate with something else than salbutamol ... most of the 'replacements' would probably require a TUE, though.

    Should TUEs as a whole be regulated more stringently?
    I'm sorry to say that with the almost-rampant abuse they're seeing (yes, I'm looking at you, Shane Sutton), they possibly should.
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    Francois the Postman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2462 on: December 21, 2017, 19:50 »
    It's getting to the point that suffering from asthma is seemingly a prerequisite for winning a grand tour, and especially the TDF, one of the toughest endurance sports on this planet.

    I'm perfectly fine if that accolade is put beyond the reach of professional asthma sufferers.

    DB, is this a 'new' thing, that cyclist end up with asthma through exercise? Or was this also the lot of top-cyclists from the 60s, 70s, 80s?

    Because it sounds to me like a result over over-exercise, training regimes which are so inhumane that they ruin breathing abilty, triggering a self-induced disability with erstwhile fit top-athletes in pursuit of the dream to become the proven fittest athlete in their discipline.

    To then allow medication to counter that disability during sport-events is institutionalizing this bodily abuse. You are de facto encouraging athletes to go down this route, when a responsible sport it should be the exact opposite, it should be heavily discouraged.

    Just like people are questioning the ethics behind a sport that leaves a trail of athletes with brain-injuries (boxing, American football), I can see no argument why we shouldn't do the same in our sport, and question the facilitation of people who go -effectively- demonstrably too far with prepping their own body for their own good, by allowing medication that (more than?) off sets the negative byproduct of the preparation process.

    I had asthma in my youth, I was the quickest over 40 yards and the slowest over a 100. I also accepted that marathons would simply be beyond me, let alone competing at the fore-front in the toughest one on the planet.

    As much as I like to encourage and facilitate participation for people with disabilities, I already felt that this playing field leveling never should stretch to the duty to make sufferers compete at the elite levels of a given discipline. And that was considering only the people who were natural sufferers.

    If the aids that make the sport more inclusive -in effect- create more sufferers as a result, and potentially even help the people who have a given disability (based on the amount of documented grand tour asthma winners over the last 5 years it certainly seems to be an indicator of ultimately aiding the athlete even if it was only through enabling over-exercise), that really is making the mountain climbs come to Mohamed.

    You are creating an arena in which athletes face competition with over-exercised-and-now-with-disability-to-prove-it (except-it-doesn't-show-in-competition-because-stimulants) athletes, leaving only one route open for anyone who wants to win: join them.

    If asthma is indeed training-induced, I can find no good argument to condone anything that enables this practice. Tough for those like me who were born with a set of lungs that has put their TDF dreams permanently on ice.

    But hey: billiards!
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  • « Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 20:05 by Francois the Postman »

    Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2463 on: December 21, 2017, 20:23 »
    Certainly.
    Diabetics (to stay with that group) don't need salbutamol. They need insuline. And they should be allowed to have that insuline.

    Sufferers of exercise-induced asthma could medicate with something else than salbutamol ... most of the 'replacements' would probably require a TUE, though.

    Should TUEs as a whole be regulated more stringently?
    I'm sorry to say that with the almost-rampant abuse they're seeing (yes, I'm looking at you, Shane Sutton), they possibly should.

    There were only 13 TUEs in 2016.

     :shh
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2464 on: December 21, 2017, 20:33 »
    There were only 13 TUEs in 2016.

     :shh
    I question this factoid. TUEs for insuline or similar are probably open-ended or renewed as a matter of course.
    It sounds more likely that there were 13 new TUEs granted in 2016.

     :)
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2465 on: December 21, 2017, 20:34 »
    I question this factoid. TUEs for insuline or similar are probably open-ended or renewed as a matter of course.
    It sounds more likely that there were 13 new TUEs granted in 2016.

     :)

    Still, it's been reined in, hardly a massive problem at this level.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2466 on: December 21, 2017, 20:35 »
    Still, it's been reined in, hardly a massive problem at this level.
    So Shane Sutton and his ilk aren't as influential anymore as even they themselves think they are?
    Nice.
    :)
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2467 on: December 21, 2017, 20:37 »
    So Shane Sutton and his ilk aren't as influential anymore as even they themselves think they are?
    Nice.
    :)

    Well...
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2468 on: December 21, 2017, 20:38 »
    If it was my decision on what to clamp down on it would be OOC use of everything rather than TUEs.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2469 on: December 21, 2017, 20:44 »
    If it was my decision on what to clamp down on it would be OOC use of everything rather than TUEs.
    Hear, hear!
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  • neppe

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2470 on: December 21, 2017, 22:57 »
    There were only 13 TUEs in 2016.

     :shh

    Please note that the UCI automatically recognizes TUEs decisions made by the following NADOs.

    This means that if a rider’s TUE has been delivered by a NADO listed below, he/she does not need to apply to the UCI for recognition of that TUE, insofar as the TUE is still valid. The TUE is automatically recognised by the UCI, without further action required by the Rider.


    NADO of the French Community of Belgium
    Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport
    Agence Française de lutte contre le dopage
    Agencia Española de Protección de la Salud en el Deporte
    Antidoping Switzerland
    Antidoping Denmark
    NADO Vlaanderen
    National Anti-Doping Agency Austria
    Anti-Doping Norway
    UK Anti-Doping
    South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport
    United States Anti-Doping Agency
    Swedish Sports Confederation
    Nationale Anti Doping Agentur Deutschland
    International Paralympic Committee
    Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority
    NADO Italia
    Sport Ireland
    Anti-Doping Autoriteit Nederland
    Anti-Doping Agency of Serbia
    Slovenian Anti-Doping Organisation
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2471 on: December 22, 2017, 00:17 »
    Please note that the UCI automatically recognizes TUEs decisions made by the following NADOs.

    SNIP the long list
    So, how many TUEs last year?

    BTW, I just came back because another comedian popped up. Lancey boy, this time, chiming in that he thinks Froome's rep is now "tarnished forever". Reckon maybe he's living under a rock these days? Or did Froome have an UNtarnished reputation hiding in some remote location? I mean, he was just finally beginning to outlast the skeptics.

    It's a rich year for real-life comedy. If you don't mind a strong side of irony and fatalism.
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2472 on: December 22, 2017, 01:11 »
    Why not allowing one-legged cyclist with second mechanical motorized leg? Same principle.

    It is always a question of where you place the cut off for what is performance enhancing.
    Eh, perhaps a poor choice of words?  :wut


    Anyway, we don't have to speculate, really. Oscar Pistorius forced the debate into the real world. So that provides us with at least one example of how sporting authorities might respond to such a scenario. Although it's obviously a very complex issue with no easy resolution.
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  • blutto

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2473 on: December 22, 2017, 13:43 »
    It's getting to the point that suffering from asthma is seemingly a prerequisite for winning a grand tour, and especially the TDF, one of the toughest endurance sports on this planet.

    I'm perfectly fine if that accolade is put beyond the reach of professional asthma sufferers.

    DB, is this a 'new' thing, that cyclist end up with asthma through exercise? Or was this also the lot of top-cyclists from the 60s, 70s, 80s?

    Because it sounds to me like a result over over-exercise, training regimes which are so inhumane that they ruin breathing abilty, triggering a self-induced disability with erstwhile fit top-athletes in pursuit of the dream to become the proven fittest athlete in their discipline.

    To then allow medication to counter that disability during sport-events is institutionalizing this bodily abuse. You are de facto encouraging athletes to go down this route, when a responsible sport it should be the exact opposite, it should be heavily discouraged.

    Just like people are questioning the ethics behind a sport that leaves a trail of athletes with brain-injuries (boxing, American football), I can see no argument why we shouldn't do the same in our sport, and question the facilitation of people who go -effectively- demonstrably too far with prepping their own body for their own good, by allowing medication that (more than?) off sets the negative byproduct of the preparation process.

    I had asthma in my youth, I was the quickest over 40 yards and the slowest over a 100. I also accepted that marathons would simply be beyond me, let alone competing at the fore-front in the toughest one on the planet.

    As much as I like to encourage and facilitate participation for people with disabilities, I already felt that this playing field leveling never should stretch to the duty to make sufferers compete at the elite levels of a given discipline. And that was considering only the people who were natural sufferers.

    If the aids that make the sport more inclusive -in effect- create more sufferers as a result, and potentially even help the people who have a given disability (based on the amount of documented grand tour asthma winners over the last 5 years it certainly seems to be an indicator of ultimately aiding the athlete even if it was only through enabling over-exercise), that really is making the mountain climbs come to Mohamed.

    You are creating an arena in which athletes face competition with over-exercised-and-now-with-disability-to-prove-it (except-it-doesn't-show-in-competition-because-stimulants) athletes, leaving only one route open for anyone who wants to win: join them.

    If asthma is indeed training-induced, I can find no good argument to condone anything that enables this practice. Tough for those like me who were born with a set of lungs that has put their TDF dreams permanently on ice.

    But hey: billiards!

    ...with your reference to billiards, I'm assuming you are saying something along the lines of " if you want a sport without drugs there is always billiards".....

    ....two words...beta blockers.....the ugly reality is a while back, a prominent player, the reigning world champion no less, was tossed for the use of beta blockers....

    ....bottom line, its a drug addled societal reality out there, starting with the coffee many start their days with ( originally pushed , among other things, to increase worker productivity...)....so drug addled sports are what ?....an awful insult against "everything we hold dear" or just "business as usual"....

    ....btw about that 40/100 yard problem you mentioned....had exactly the same problem....salbutamol was "the thing" that allowed me to have a fairly successful bike race career......

    Cheers
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  • Francois the Postman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2474 on: December 22, 2017, 21:40 »
    I was simply saying that if endurance sport are beyond you, there is always billiards!

    It was also a reference to my short-lived glory days as a south netherlands billiard player in a non-distinct but fun youth league.

    Although for full disclosure it was a hobby picked up during a particular long recovery period after the umpteenth football injury, not because of issues with long-distance running.

    I did however learn a couple of things wielding a billiard cue:

    - playing 6 billiard matches over the course of two days was far more draining than playing 6 football tournament matches over 2 days.
     I am not at all surprised that there is drugs at billiard elite level too. I am sure chess players are at it too.
    - yes, it is possible to sustain a crippling muscle injury that forces you out of a billiard tournament, unable to hold a cue, if you are trying a very tricky shot overhead behind your back AND you are also just too short to keep the required 'one feet on the floor' whilst doing that. A bit like this:



    but having to stretch a lot further behind my back.

    The GP that saw me half an hour after twanging a back muscle as a result of a similar shot asked if I had been playing volleyball, basketball, anything like that. He had not seen a tear that bad before. Imagine his face when I said billiards.


    Blutto, ignoring all that, yes, I know salbutamol can change your options (and access to joys) in life dramatically. I guess we disagree about the position of drugs like this on the coffee and hot chocolate to EPO track, and where the desirable cut-off point is for allowing it in elite sport.

    I do get 'I' would slam the door on some folk with asthma who could otherwise... I have no real issue with that.   
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  • blutto

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2475 on: December 23, 2017, 12:38 »
    I was simply saying that if endurance sport are beyond you, there is always billiards!

    It was also a reference to my short-lived glory days as a south netherlands billiard player in a non-distinct but fun youth league.

    Although for full disclosure it was a hobby picked up during a particular long recovery period after the umpteenth football injury, not because of issues with long-distance running.

    I did however learn a couple of things wielding a billiard cue:

    - playing 6 billiard matches over the course of two days was far more draining than playing 6 football tournament matches over 2 days.
     I am not at all surprised that there is drugs at billiard elite level too. I am sure chess players are at it too.
    - yes, it is possible to sustain a crippling muscle injury that forces you out of a billiard tournament, unable to hold a cue, if you are trying a very tricky shot overhead behind your back AND you are also just too short to keep the required 'one feet on the floor' whilst doing that. A bit like this:



    but having to stretch a lot further behind my back.

    The GP that saw me half an hour after twanging a back muscle as a result of a similar shot asked if I had been playing volleyball, basketball, anything like that. He had not seen a tear that bad before. Imagine his face when I said billiards.


    Blutto, ignoring all that, yes, I know salbutamol can change your options (and access to joys) in life dramatically. I guess we disagree about the position of drugs like this on the coffee and hot chocolate to EPO track, and where the desirable cut-off point is for allowing it in elite sport.

    I do get 'I' would slam the door on some folk with asthma who could otherwise... I have no real issue with that.

    ....was just trying to say, though not as clearly as maybe I could have, that its a crazy mixed up world we live in......and not trying to beat a dead horse or anything but about that coffee thing, didn't Bugno get banned for exceeding the allowable caffeine limit ( and if memory serves me right it was initially a very long ban....two years I think....)...

    Cheers
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2476 on: December 23, 2017, 21:32 »
    . . .

    I do get 'I' would slam the door on some folk with asthma who could otherwise... I have no real issue with that.
    I'd have to put myself in the "me, too" column on that score. As it is, what with Pistorius being allowed, and other examples, I think the Olympic committee has allowed overly much. The physical enhancement side is somewhat different, but all is certainly arguable.

    I think one of the REAL problems, especially when it gets down to the more subtle gradations of what is defined as abuse, is the inability to definitively determine intent. And, in a case like Froome's, he could be using it honestly 80% of the time, and pushing the envelope less honestly for a mere 20% of the time. 
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  • 58x11

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2477 on: December 24, 2017, 21:12 »
    holy flipping smoke.... kimmage goes full retard on vroom/sky BS

    https://m.soundcloud.com/thestandwitheamondunphy/ep-112-paul-kimmage-on-chris-froome

    Vroom took a  puff right before doping control "not lo look sick/coughing" - so he says... and much more stories
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2478 on: December 26, 2017, 19:25 »
    This is all so funny.  Now with this "highest ever recorded AAF for Salbutemol" Froome says he took a couple of puffs before the camera for the interview.  And all the apologists are trying to make up reasons for the high level and explain it away.

    Why don't people get it ?  The TV doco people called their bike with the motor in "Spartacus".  Cav & Sagan were suddenly going over hills and turning up at finishes that they previously couldn't manage.  Ryder's bike spins around on its own.  that Cyclo-cross footage of the back wheels spinning is awesome.  Where does Vino's bike hang.  In whose shop ?

    Suddenly the Brit UCI Pres gets a "gift", on his last day, can you believe, his last day, what a coincidence, my, my.   Oh, that the guy who is on course to eclipse Merckx, Hinault, Anquetil and Indurain has gone over the top on a sauce that does not give an automatic ban ! 

    What an f******g coincidence.  The rider with the best motor or let me translate that, the guy with the most "round wheels", suddenly swallows a bee.  Its hellish unpleasant but it does not threaten his life.

    Flip that burger.  Say they caught him with a motor and he says - "go on, bust me.  I am going to burn your house down.  If you think Floyd had a house fire, you ain't seen nothign yet"   

    Only a complete cretin would think that Lappartient wants to catch someone with a motor.  What he wants to do is stop the monkeys in the circus getting out of control.  He wants to stop motor use but not catch anyone, because he knows the monkeys are playing with fire, a fire that could bring down the whole circus so it never gets to put on another show like it ever again.  He wants to show the monkeys that they only get to perform in the circus with the permission of the ringmaster and they cannot use "fire" in their act. 

    Froome might well be right - "well you have known about it for years, if you wanted to stop it, why didn't you do something.  You didn't. I was getting thrashed by people who used them and so I just made sure I did it better.  I got some "rounder wheels"". 

    Don't believe?  Think it is all about the Salbutemol ?  Just who do you think leaked it and why ?  Read the story over at cyclingtips about the "story behind the leak".  We never get near a whiff of the leak.  The monkey was not taking his medicine, like a naughty monkey should (ffs the monkey was busy negotiating a £2M deal to show at the Giro) and so the rest of the world had to have a peak into his "secret".  That wiped the smile off that very, very naughty little monkey's face didn't it.  Stacked CAS tribunal, keeping their hearing AND findings a tidy little secret, a "confidential hearing" my arse.  Let's see them deal with this out of the glare of publicity. 

    I got it wrong in 2013.  I saw that unbelievable finish up Ventoux and I thought Brailsford/Froome negotiated with Quintanna's DS and bunged him a packet to ensure Quintanna took a fall in the last.  I thought motors were BS and a figment of the conspiracy theorists.  Someone gave me another prism to look through.  I got the story about the Lizzie leak wrong because I could not believe one who had gained so much for so long could sell his grandmother like that.  But then, I believe he has way more secrets in his locker and that was just a little taster.

    The Tour would survive a big motors story bust.  A good number of sponsors would stay.  But a good number would walk away.  Profit is not about the 100%, it is about the last 25%.  ASO would be looking at their profits collapsing, their business model scre*ed over big style.  It might take a decade to recover.  It might not. Imagine the biggest sponsor of the Tour deciding that it was a brand that it could no longer support because it had become a laughing stock? The monkeys need to be shown who is in charge.
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  • « Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:24 by riding too slowly »

    M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2479 on: December 26, 2017, 23:31 »
    This is all so funny.  Now with this "highest ever recorded AAF for Salbutemol" Froome says  . . .<SNIP> . . . The monkeys need to be shown who is in charge.

    You know, 10, 20 years ago I would have thot you were over the top. Today I still think you are, but only a bit, and entertaining as well, and I have less confidence that you are not right. Keep those skeptic wheels rolling!

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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2480 on: December 29, 2017, 16:19 »
    DB, is this a 'new' thing, that cyclist end up with asthma through exercise? Or was this also the lot of top-cyclists from the 60s, 70s, 80s?

    I don't think it is a new thing, and I do not think it is especially confined to pro-athletes either. I have experienced some asthma like symptoms from running sprints in freezing weather or playing basketball outdoors. Basically about 30-60 minutes after finishing my breathing got fluffed up and I wound up just sitting on the floor curled up coughing like crazy from damaging the inside of my throat from the unusual heavy breathing. But again this is only anecdotal evidence. As I understand it may also be confined to while they exercise, so if CF was to stop bike racing tomorrow, he would not need an inhaler either.

    At the same time I will say that in cycling it has probably at all times been a little bit of a "Take this, it couldn't hurt" type of thing.

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2481 on: December 29, 2017, 17:37 »
    At the same time I will say that in cycling it has probably at all times been a little bit of a "Take this, it couldn't hurt" type of thing.
    The best (or worst) example of that culture is the list of vitamins and supplements that Orica-GreenEdge had in their service course when they gave some news outlet (CyclingTips?) a tour of the place a few years back.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2482 on: December 29, 2017, 17:56 »
    . . .
    DB, is this a 'new' thing, that cyclist end up with asthma through exercise? Or was this also the lot of top-cyclists from the 60s, 70s, 80s?

      . . .
    I don't think it is a new thing, and I do not think it is especially confined to pro-athletes either.  . . .



    Au contraire, mes ami.  I'm gonna pick on that. Inhalers for asthma only date from the late 50's (first use). Common use wasn't for another 20 years. You didn't see exercise-induced asthmatics competing in the 1960's. Nor, as I recall, in the 70's - or not much - but by then it may have been starting. If I recall correctly, I first heard news of such in the 80's.

    Reference the wikipedia page on beta2 agonists, particularly the History section[1][2]. For salbutemol / albuterol, it wasn't available in the US until the 90's, although it had been available in the UK for a decade or so. Early prices were probably monopolistic, meaning very expensive, but that is a guess on my part based on the economics of the drug market. When a drug is new and patentable, the pharmas charge mucho bucks. Also notice clenbuterol on those pages.

    Asthma symptoms can be induced by physical effort, and they are much more than a case of lung burn and coughing from an extreme effort. I've had both. My asthmatic episode was caused by exposure to petrochemical fumes over a period of time - and let me tell you - it was one of the most frightening moments of my life. My throat and lungs just shut down. I could not breath. You could compare it to a complete choking blockage - where the victim can not cough. But your lungs and airway shut down over a period of seconds or minutes, and you can feel it happening. Mine was an extreme event. Most asthmatic events are much milder - where the shutdown is felt - but it is not nearly a total airway restriction. Still it COULD be, if it were allowed to continue.

    I would be willing to bet that if one were able to draw up statistics of exercise-induced asthmatics competing, it would have started showing up as outliers in the 60's, gradually increasing in frequency since then. I would guess the 80's would have seen a jump in numbers, and the 90's would have seen a leveling, followed by another jump after 2000. And, afaic, the plethora of "asthmatics" competing today tells me not that they are asthmatic, but that they are gaming the system.

    I would have to agree that it is not confined to pros, as the desire to compete and win is universal. But it might be more common amongst pros, as it is a "marginal gain". That would be an interesting study[3] - the commonality of grey-area seeking of marginal gains in serious amateur athletes vs pros. Pros have an economic incentive, but serious amateurs are self-selected as a strongly motivated group, just with the payoff being non-monetary.
     1. Discovery_and_development_of_beta2_agonists
     2. Beta2-adrenergic_agonist
     3.  Somebody has probably already done it.
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2483 on: January 01, 2018, 19:07 »
    I would have to agree that it is not confined to pros, as the desire to compete and win is universal.

    Since it was not clear from what I wrote, I meant that excise induced asthma or asthma like symptoms (treatable with same medication) has been around all along (Not the inhalers). And that in my opinion it is likely that pros as well as non-pros may experience this.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2484 on: January 01, 2018, 20:43 »
    Since it was not clear from what I wrote, I meant that excise induced asthma or asthma like symptoms (treatable with same medication) has been around all along (Not the inhalers). And that in my opinion it is likely that pros as well as non-pros may experience this.

    I entirely agree that exercise-induced asthma has been around all along. But 40 years ago you would not have found it in pro athletes. As FTP noted of himself, it prevented one from being competitive. I suppose it would be possible that one might have found some milder cases amongst the occasional domestique. Still, I would strongly doubt it. Treatments other than epinephrine (adrenalin) did not exist until the 50's, and were not in common use for decades more. The increasing availability of casual treatments has allowed people to compete who would not have been able to 30-40 years ago.[1]

    Which brings us closer to JSG's philosophy that medication in general will all soon be so common and life-changing (compared to without), that we will all be some sort of 6-million dollar man.
     1. Let me think about that for a minute. 50 years ago was 1968. So maybe that timeframe should be 40-50 years now.
     Time does fly. I seem to recall inhalers coming in to use in the US in the 80's.
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  • AG

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2485 on: January 08, 2018, 11:16 »
    so I know that according to the WADA rules, Froome is not automatically provisionally suspended as a result of this test ...

    but CAN they?

    Can the UCI apply a provisional suspension, preventing him from racing?


    With Ulissi, the team suspended him ... then they decided that he was going to be allowed to ride, and he rode in a minor Italian race - and then the UCI stepped in and requested his National Anti Doping Agency (who was Switzerland as he rides under a Swiss licence) not to let him race ...   so he was suspended until his hearing.


    Given we have a new leader - who is no doubt keen to wipe the deck of the stain of the previous one - will we see the UCI step in once Froome plans to race again?

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2486 on: January 08, 2018, 16:07 »
    so I know that according to the WADA rules, Froome is not automatically provisionally suspended as a result of this test ...

    but CAN they?

    Can the UCI apply a provisional suspension, preventing him from racing?
    Yes. They very much can:
    Quote from: UCI rule 7.9.3
    For any potential anti-doping rule violation under these Anti-Doping Rules asserted after a review under Article 7 and not covered by Article 7.9.1 or 7.9.2 [which deals with Biological Passport violations, ed.], the UCI may impose a Provisional Suspension prior to analysis of the Rider’s B Sample (where applicable) or prior to a final hearing as described in Article 8.
    "The UCI may impose a Provisional Suspension [...] prior to a final hearing." To me, that's as clear-cut as anything.

    Given we have a new leader - who is no doubt keen to wipe the deck of the stain of the previous one - will we see the UCI step in once Froome plans to race again?
    But I don't think we will see it happening. Team Sky may have threatened to sue the UCI out of everything they own if they provisionally suspend Froome and he's later declared not guilty, or the UCI, also under Lappartient, is just adhering to its own rulebook which includes, to quote myself, "no rule that everyone must act wisely". ;)


    If you want to read the full piece I've quoted myself from, here you go:
    http://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/3924/into-the-detail-looking-deeper-into-the-froome-salbutamol-case
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  • AG

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2487 on: January 09, 2018, 00:27 »
    yeah I dont think they will either ...   just wanted to know if they could if they wanted to.


    Sadly I think we are in for him going to the Giro with this still unresolved ...  :(
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  • jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2488 on: January 16, 2018, 16:31 »
    As a father of a young child with bad asthma and as someone who has had major kidney surgery, I am getting more and more offended by Mr Froome and his 'explanation'.
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    L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2489 on: January 16, 2018, 19:57 »
    A lot of vox populi complaining that this is all taking too long but as far as I'm aware, Froome has yet to submit his dossier. So he's the one holding up the process.
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