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kabloemski

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Chris Froome
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2012, 19:56 »
Oh and I can confirm that Bilharzia is common here - as a kid my dad would also warn us against dipping in 'still-standing' water - it's a common thing to watch out for in SA.
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #31 on: November 06, 2012, 19:58 »
    The same old cynical sh!t comes from watching riders racing doped on teams run by ex doping DS...

    It's a major bummer for sure.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #32 on: November 06, 2012, 20:01 »
    Indeed once one holiday in SA we used to go swimming everyday in a lake which our villas backed out onto.

    Must have spent half the holiday there ignoring the very blatant signs which told us to stay out due to Bilharzia. Eventually this official on the very last day came and told us to keep out or else.. :fp

    Don't feel all that strange though :D
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  • RIP Keith

    kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #33 on: November 06, 2012, 20:18 »
    Must have spent half the holiday there ignoring the very blatant signs which told us to stay out due to Bilharzia.

    I like your style :-)
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #34 on: November 06, 2012, 20:20 »
    Don't feel all that strange though :D

    As for.. we're still voting on that one (:-D
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #35 on: November 14, 2012, 19:05 »
    "@chrisfroome: My official & only facebook profile http://t.co/P3gw837A"
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  • theHog

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #36 on: November 25, 2012, 15:03 »
    Yeah, I reckon she knows what she's talking about? I think it's quite cool that she popped in to VR to give feedback in the 1st place, even if she was a bit p-d off :-) Plus, she cares about her dude - I was with a cyclist for 3 years - you get emotional about your guy :-D Anyway, more info for us at the end of the day, which is the whole point of forumming, riiiiiight??

    She's protecting the cashcow.

    To clear up one matter. The Giro delle Regioni is an U23 race. Winning 1 stage does not equate to future Tour winner.

    In my mind Froome is clearly doping. His rise is "not normal".

    Period.
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #37 on: November 25, 2012, 17:00 »
    She's protecting the cashcow.

    To clear up one matter. The Giro delle Regioni is an U23 race. Winning 1 stage does not equate to future Tour winner.

    In my mind Froome is clearly doping. His rise is "not normal".

    Period.

    Ah I see. The hectic thing - and which I am really struggling to come to terms with - is that they probably 'all' do it.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #38 on: November 25, 2012, 17:11 »
    I would not say they "probably" all do it.
    From what we have seen doping in the peloton has been reduced since the Lance days.

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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #39 on: November 25, 2012, 17:21 »
    I dunno, Froome, I've been doing some reading re micro doping & how the tests just don't pick it up. But I would love to think it wasn't so. How will we ever know? Are the performance stats much lower than in the past (speed of climbs, stage finishes, that sort of thing) to show some empirical evidence?
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  • froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #40 on: November 25, 2012, 17:38 »
    I dunno, Froome, I've been doing some reading re micro doping & how the tests just don't pick it up. But I would love to think it wasn't so. How will we ever know? Are the performance stats much lower than in the past (speed of climbs, stage finishes, that sort of thing) to show some empirical evidence?
    Certainly even people who say the entire peloton is doping nevertheless would say they are doping at much lesser levels, yet levels which gain an advantage.

    Exactly we can only use our own discretion regarding this and for that we can only really look at things like who tests positive and what riders say to come to our own conclusion.
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #41 on: November 25, 2012, 18:08 »
    Yeah, I guess only time will tell, hey?
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  • theHog

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #42 on: November 25, 2012, 19:58 »
    I dunno, Froome, I've been doing some reading re micro doping & how the tests just don't pick it up. But I would love to think it wasn't so. How will we ever know? Are the performance stats much lower than in the past (speed of climbs, stage finishes, that sort of thing) to show some empirical evidence?

    Froome was out almost half the season. He was 10 minutes off the back at Tour de Romandie.

    All of the sudden at the Tour he is out TT'ing Cancellera and climbing so fast he has time to turn around, soft pedal, then gesture to the yellow jersey!

    Thats's 'not normal".

    The guy went to alien levels at the Tour.

    I'm sorry. Doesn't matter who you are, you cannot make those sort of gains in such small space of time.

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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #43 on: November 26, 2012, 00:18 »
    Thats's 'not normal".

    The guy went to alien levels at the Tour.

    I'm sorry. Doesn't matter who you are, you cannot make those sort of gains in such small space of time.

    Thanks, that is serious good for thought.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #44 on: November 26, 2012, 07:53 »
    Froome was out almost half the season. He was 10 minutes off the back at Tour de Romandie.

    All of the sudden at the Tour he is out TT'ing Cancellera and climbing so fast he has time to turn around, soft pedal, then gesture to the yellow jersey!

    Thats's 'not normal".

    The guy went to alien levels at the Tour.

    I'm sorry. Doesn't matter who you are, you cannot make those sort of gains in such small space of time.

    So essentially, you're just ignoring every rational argument in this topic and are completely convinced Froome must be a malicious doper because you feel his rise to the top was 'not normal'?
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  • Arb

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #45 on: November 26, 2012, 08:20 »
    malicious?
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #46 on: November 26, 2012, 17:42 »
    Ah I see. Although, a lot of people say I am naive for thinking that any of the pros are clean...
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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #47 on: November 26, 2012, 17:42 »
    Thinking? I guess it's more like hoping...
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  • theHog

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #48 on: November 26, 2012, 23:13 »
    The Hog uses a bigger deflector shield than the Starship Enterprise.
     He plays fast and loose with the truth.
     I notice that here he is still claiming the USA as his base, but on CN came clean that he's UK.
    These two posts are his copy and paste efforts from over there, before he ran into a bit of flak, last night.

    No I grew up in the UK and live in the US.

    That much is clear in all my posts.

    Sorry to disappoint.
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  • theHog

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #49 on: November 26, 2012, 23:31 »
    So essentially, you're just ignoring every rational argument in this topic and are completely convinced Froome must be a malicious doper because you feel his rise to the top was 'not normal'?

    What rational arguments? I've not seen any.

    If you have some please let us know.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 10:24 »
    What rational arguments? I've not seen any.

    If you have some please let us know.

    Thought we needed a separate thread and intro for Froome..  :D

    Even subsequent to clearing up the matter of why Sky were capable of performing to such high levels there is still the dilemma of Chris Froome. His rise to the top was not only unprecedented, but in fact it was completely out of the blue and many people would say that there was not even so much as the slightest indication of his talent prior to the 2011 Vuelta.

    Logically this would be a clear and very blatant sign as to possible doping; the simple explanation for the ridiculous leap would be due to doping. It was the factor which gave him the ability to perform beyond what he was previously capable of and it has been the cause of his ascension to one of the most highly rated Grand Tour riders who are currently racing in the modern peloton.

    But in my opinion and from what I have read and heard about the rider, it seems as if his startling rise to the very summit of Grand Tour racing may not have been all that surprising. Personally I believe that he was hindered by a variety of factors, but behind all his struggles he encountered there was in fact a very talented cyclists waiting for the opportunity to prove his talent.



    Froome was born in Nairobi to English parents, without going into unnecessary detail it should be mentioned that he started off racing BMX bikes and was racing by the age of 13, he then moved to South Africa at the age of 14.

    It was in fact only once he was living in South Africa that he started to turn his attention to road cycling, but the infrastructure was not ideal and it would prove to be costly. Prior to his arrival in South Africa he had never even ridden a road bike, only BMX and Mountain bikes.

    He was coached by David Kinjah who had competed to a decent level himself, but Froome did not receive anywhere close to the training expertise and coaching techniques that many of his rivals would have at similar ages.

    It was only then at the age of 22 that Froome became pro, once again considering his talent he should have become pro earlier but it was obvious that he had been restricted by the limited resources that were available to him

    Froome's first team was Team Konica Minolta and they were a South African team with limited resources as expected. In his first season he did relatively well a win at the Tour of Japan was followed by a number of placings around the globe as his team charted unprecedented territory.

    It was at the Giro delle Regioni where Froome really started to show potential and in retrospect his perfomances were quite remarkable for a rider who was competing with such a distinct disadvantage due to his lack of skills and professional training. He won the primary mountain stage ahead of riders who have now become household names, the likes of Tour de France stage winner Rui Costa and Bauke Mollema who came 4th at the Vuelta 2011 amonst others.

    This has been Froome's first real crack at proper European racing and he had taken to it amazingly well considering his limiting circumstances. In fact Froome would have dominated the race if not for his chain braking in the closing meters of the other major stage.

    Yet even considering the amazing perfomance Froome has put in, it was not enough. He had been racing for the WCC (World Cycling Centre Team) whilst in Europe and the coach of the team Michael Theze said of Froome that...

    It is obvious to us in retrospect that Froome was still far behind the other riders when it came to the technical skills required to race at the highest level and this placed him at a significant disadvantage.

    Then in 2008 Froome was eventually snapped up by Barloworld and was therefore under the direction of their Italian manager Claudio Corti, now the manager of Farnese Vini. As would be expected of any neo-pro - no matter their talent - who was only starting out in their career, the season was to be used merely as an eye opener for Froome and for him to truly adjust to the European style of racing.

    Yet even so Froome was impressive he finished in the Top 10 in a number of minor races and he safely finished a number of high profile classics such as Liege Bastogne Liege and La Fleche Wallone. His most impressive result though was his 5th place finish in a TT at the Vuelta asturias where he managed to finish a mere 26 seconds behind Samuel Sanchez the soon to be Olympic champion.

    Froome was certainly showing signs of his potential. He was then given the opportunity to ride his first Grand Tour - the Tour de France and he battled through it, and then managing to eventually finish 14th on the final stage which was a TT.

    If there was ever a test of strength to determine whether Froome had the potential to become a future Grand Tour contender it was this. Without the proper training or techniques and not being used to the rigours of a 3 week race, Froome nevertheless posted what would be considered a magnificent result for any neo-pro. Indeed this had already been proven a few days earlier when he had been climbing with the lead group for the majority of the Alpe d'huez climb.

    2009 was a year where Froome seemed not to have made much improvement.

    He came 6th in a Giro stage amonst other decent yet not spectacular results.
    This was not the progression of an extremely talented rider who would go on to dominate the world of cycling, but rather of a mediocre rider who would remain inconspicuous amongst the pro ranks.





    2009 should have been the year when Froome started to excel, but instead it turned out to be a year where he displayed nothing of any true substance. This has resulted in many people believing that Froome does not have the natural talent as his Tour rivals and that therefore the logical explanation for his current status in the sport is down to drugs.

    This was what his team manage Claudio Corti had to say at the time. Corti claimed that Froome whom he dubbed his “white Kenyan” would

    Clearly Corti had seen what Froome was capable of and believed that he was indeed innately capable. He just was not racing at the level he was capable of racing at, because of the reason stated above, that he was hindered by his lack of technical prowess.

    Then Froome joined Sky and his career would be totally altered. Sky had just started up and it took time for him to adjust. The whole set up was new to Froome and from what I have seen and heard it seems to be that Froome was on the outskirts of this setup. The Sky team were not as methodical then with all their riders as they are now and considering how Froome was still considered to be a peripheral member of the squad and therefore not treated with the same respect as riders like Wiggins, his technical skills were still rather poor and this still hindered him. But even more than that the defining reason for his poor reasons in 2010, which were headlined by a Tour de Haut var 9th place, was due to the fact that on Holiday in Kenya he had contracted the disease of Bilharzia.
    Yet the Sky management team had in fact noticed his potential and had in fact described him as
    When Froome joined the team back in early 2010.

    This is another indication of people who believed in Froome and that he was capable, but just had to improve his technical skills. And of course get over his Bilharzia.

    Yet Bilharzia is an infection by parasites who lay eggs deep within the human body and therefore it is very difficult to get rid off.

    Entering into the 2011 season Froome had two objectives if was to fulfil his potential. One was to get rid of the Bilharzia and the other was to increase his technical skills.

    Luckily for him Bobby Julich had just arrived at Sky and he was assigned to Froome for the 2011 season. This was the first time that Froome had had the opportunity to work with a coach of Julich’s experience and calibre one to one and immediately Julich noted his riders potential.

    Yet it soon became apparent to Julich as to the reason why Froome had underperformed so badly over the past 2 years..

    I do not believe there is much better proof than that. It was obvious once again here that Froome had been hindered by his lack of education when it came to how to ride a bike.

    Likewise Richard Moore commented on Froome’s website that:

    Once again the reference to the way in which Froome rode his bike as being “all over”,  clearly highlights his deficiencies at the time.

    And finally he was starting to get rid of the parasite disease which had bugged him so much. Indeed he was still adapting and learning with :Julich though and his performances were gradually improving as a result.  He came 8th  on a Romandie mountain stage. And top 10s at the Tour de Suisse and Tour of Luxembourg. It was not much granted, but it was clearly signs that he had finally managed to overcome his technical difficulties and was shaking off the effects of the Bilharzia. And of course the rest is very much a part of history.


    In conclusion I believe it was always evident that Froome had the potential to become a future Tour de France podium finished.

    Indeed his results in his 2007 season spoke volumes for his capabilities, yet when he turned pro it was obvious he could not continue to match those riders he had previously beaten unless he could improve his technical skills. Even if people do not believe his claim of having Bilharzia ,and I am in very little doubt myself at to its validity, it would still be safe to say that he was hindered by his lack of technical skills.

    It is logical to assume that without those hindrances Chris Froome would have burst onto the scene much earlier than when he in fact did.

    Coupled with his Bilharzia he was very much inhibited in his first year at Sky, but gradually once he learnt the tricks of the trade he became the rider he is today.


    ..
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  • Dim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 14:52 »
    :admin

    Just a reminder guys, can we leave other forums at the door. What happens elsewhere doesnt get carried over here, if it does the mods will get upset.

    Thats the one warning, applies to all. Ta. :D

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  • kabloemski

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    Chris Froome
    « Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 18:23 »
    "@UCI_Overlord: Brailsford gives early indications of @chrisfroome Tour captaincy http://t.co/1EyWBgaK in a @rapharacing kit no less. link via @dexradio"
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  • froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 18:52 »
    No worries, but for next time probably best to have it in the Pro racing section as this thread is in dark side
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  • kabloemski

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    « Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 20:37 »
    No worries, but for next time probably best to have it in the Pro racing section as this thread is in dark side

    Oh yeah, true, just noticed again :-) thanks (this was meant for me?)
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #55 on: December 03, 2012, 11:19 »
    Quote
    “I had a two week treatment in April last year, and have since been clear of the parasite,” he confirmed. “I have it checked every six months to make sure it hasn't returned.”
    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13422/Two-clear-targets-for-Chris-Froome-in-2013.aspx#ixzz2DzEzl0x7
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #56 on: March 13, 2013, 17:59 »
    This is what JV had to say on the Chris Froome matter. Which basically matches up exactly with what I wrote in the OP of this thread  :cheesy

    Quote
    Yeah, in 2011 i wanted to sign Froome. I gave him an offer a few days before the Vuelta. I knew he produced massive numbers in testing, but wasn't converting it onto the road because he has poor bike handling and because he had major issues with recovery due to some parasite issues he's struggled with.

    But, yes, Ive known Froome was talented for a while. Just very rough. he still is. Not terribly smooth in the peloton, still has relapses of the parasite issue. But he's a massive motor.

    Of course it could all just be coincidental, but I just don't see how people can say Chris Froome "came from nowhere".
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #57 on: March 13, 2013, 18:06 »
    This is what JV had to say on the Chris Froome matter. Which basically matches up exactly with what I wrote in the OP of this thread  :cheesy

    Of course it could all just be coincidental, but I just don't see how people can say Chris Froome "came from nowhere".

    I take it with a pinch of salt. But hey no surprise, right?

    JV has nailed his colours to Sky being clean.
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  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #58 on: March 13, 2013, 18:11 »
    I take it with a pinch of salt. But hey no surprise, right?

    JV has nailed his colours to Sky being clean.
    Still. Personally I don't think he is making the whole Froome thing up.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #59 on: March 13, 2013, 20:53 »
    Still. Personally I don't think he is making the whole Froome thing up.

    JV is very good at giving some hints at what he says knows and leaving people wanting more. Whether he knows or not is never confirmed. JV plays both sides of the fence as it suits him.

    He does this with great skill to avoid the UCI making life very hard for Garmin.
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