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froome19

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Re: Chris Froome
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2013, 10:32 »
A quote which Tuart posted in the Chris Froome thread and I thought it really eye opening:

Quote
"One moment, during the Alpe d'Huez stage, Corti called me back to the car to get more gels. I said, 'No, no. I am fine.' I just had one gel in my pocket. About four kilometres into Alpe d'Huez I blew completely and lost a hell of a lot of time. That hit home how important energy is, that showed me a lesson. He said, 'Why did you not come back? You needed about 10 gels, not one!'"
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #61 on: June 25, 2013, 11:08 »
    now all in all on the surface pretty meaningless bike pure removing froome from their websitr, but in this day and age and with the I am clean , nothing to hide interviews

    why then not be open.

    it follows the sky policy of being all up front and then shutting up shop when it counts

    http://bikepure.org/2013/06/transparency-grand-tour-contenders/
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #62 on: June 25, 2013, 11:12 »
    More fuel for those who say Froome is all jacked up.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #63 on: June 25, 2013, 11:22 »
    More fuel for those who say Froome is all jacked up.

    agreed but if you are not doping then show the world after the tour , who gives 2 sh*ts if you win , or podium every other person riding in the heads of state know what watts they were laying down etc - so you are not hiding important information from your competitors .

    new generation my ass

    before anyone says anything, Froome joined or agree to join bike pure a long time ago and then has been in the media doing his I am clean bit , transparency might go along way .

    sure the number crunching folks will claim this and that , but it is bullsh*t junk science to say x watts = doping   
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  • KeithJamesMc

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #64 on: June 25, 2013, 11:23 »
    now all in all on the surface pretty meaningless bike pure removing froome from their websitr, but in this day and age and with the I am clean , nothing to hide interviews

    why then not be open.

    it follows the sky policy of being all up front and then shutting up shop when it counts

    http://bikepure.org/2013/06/transparency-grand-tour-contenders/
    It is just another ingredient being thrown into the casserole dish.
    Team Sky, and especially, Chris Froome are going to be put under massive pressure at this years Tour by the journalists for lack of transparency.
    I expect people to have massive digs because they are not MPCC members - and what is the team policy on cortisone? who has TUE's?
    I also expect the questions raised by Antoine Vayer has not been answered and will be asked time and time again - in real time this year with every climb examined.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #65 on: June 25, 2013, 11:28 »
    agreed but if you are not doping then show the world after the tour
    Yes, that exactly. Not publishing during the race - fair enough. But afterwards, there's no good reason not to publish the data.
    Let me mention at this point that #mtn2013 released Ciolek's power data for Milano-San Remo. ;)

    sure the number crunching folks will claim this and that , but it is bullsh*t junk science to say x watts = doping
    I agree, again. 6 watts/kg is an arbitrary number without any scientific foundation except "LeMond never performed more".
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #66 on: June 25, 2013, 11:37 »
    A quote which Tuart posted in the Chris Froome thread and I thought it really eye opening:

    Why on earth would that be eye opening?
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #67 on: June 25, 2013, 13:23 »
    agreed but if you are not doping then show the world after the tour , who gives 2 sh*ts if you win , or podium every other person riding in the heads of state know what watts they were laying down etc - so you are not hiding important information from your competitors .

    new generation my ass

    before anyone says anything, Froome joined or agree to join bike pure a long time ago and then has been in the media doing his I am clean bit , transparency might go along way .

    sure the number crunching folks will claim this and that , but it is bullsh*t junk science to say x watts = doping
    And conversely if you are doping then why not be more communicative with an organisation such as BikePro? I don't think it takes much to keep them happy. Either way I don't think it says much but rather only confirms the perception and vision of Sky as withdrawn and very insular.

    In terms of the number crunching folks that group can cause unnecessary trouble. There was recently a whole magazine about it where Froome was condemned, I would think Sky would be happier just to leave them without any ammunition whatsoever.

    Post Merge: June 25, 2013, 13:23
    Why on earth would that be eye opening?
    Because it shows just how clueless Froome was then.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #68 on: June 25, 2013, 13:26 »
    And conversely if you are doping then why not be more communicative with an organisation such as BikePro? I don't think it takes much to keep them happy. Either way I don't think it says much but rather only confirms the perception and vision of Sky as withdrawn and very insular.

    In terms of the number crunching folks that group can cause unnecessary trouble. There was recently a whole magazine about it where Froome was condemned, I would think Sky would be happier just to leave them without any ammunition whatsoever.


    maybe , but the folks will produce numbers anyway , so not sure it is relevant
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  • froome19

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #69 on: June 25, 2013, 13:34 »
    maybe , but the folks will produce numbers anyway , so not sure it is relevant
    But numbers certified by the team have more standing.

    But I get your point it is a possibility, I guess once again it is likely all part of Sky's less than being transparent parcel..
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #70 on: June 25, 2013, 13:36 »
    But numbers certified by the team have more standing.

    But I get your point it is a possibility, I guess once again it is likely all part of Sky's less than being transparent parcel..

    agreed as I said in my 1st post
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  • ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #71 on: June 25, 2013, 13:50 »
    Eagerly awaiting Van Garderen and Roche's data..........

    And eagerly awaiting the outrage if it isn't published............
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #72 on: June 25, 2013, 13:54 »
    Eagerly awaiting Van Garderen and Roche's data..........

    one better Porte - seems a great publicity stunt 
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  • ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #73 on: June 25, 2013, 13:56 »
    Oooh Marianne Vos data......... she's not dominated at all

    Bikepure, what is it? Never had any weightage in the pro Froome 'clean' argument and never had any weightage against any rider clean argument. And I'm a believer that Froome's not clear.

    He got a nice lot of views on the site today.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #74 on: June 25, 2013, 14:02 »
    fwiw Sky and Fran Millar will be putting some sort of response on their site
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #75 on: June 25, 2013, 15:55 »
    Ok so tweeted with Michelle








     
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #76 on: June 25, 2013, 15:59 »
    and here is where is gets interesting


    which is not what the letter implied - it indicated tour only



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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #77 on: June 25, 2013, 16:01 »
    Haha Mish is kinda crazy - what would bikepure do with the info, sell it to the highest bidder?! :rolleye
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #78 on: June 25, 2013, 16:03 »
    no but she has a point racing data way way different to training data
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #79 on: June 25, 2013, 16:04 »
    no but she has a point racing data way way different to training data

    So? All data is important.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #80 on: June 25, 2013, 16:15 »
    Wow MC seems to be peeed off :rolleye
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  • ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #81 on: June 25, 2013, 16:16 »
    General idea means little, pooling data from other teams will involve semantics and tiny details.
    So? All data is important.
    How about COntador's teammate's data or how about USA's best road prospect? Is it the act that's being bashed or the team?

    http://bikepure.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Bike-Pure-Certification-2012.pdf
    how about page 13

    FWIW- I think he's as suspicious as, not the whole team, but him yes.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #82 on: June 25, 2013, 16:24 »
    ram you are not accusing alberto right :yuush
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  • ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #83 on: June 25, 2013, 16:26 »
    Definitely not. I don't think it is a prerogative of any team to release training data to a third party and finding the outrage, from both sides, highly amusing.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #84 on: June 25, 2013, 16:36 »
    well, I guess this is between froome and bikepure rather than anything else but are we thus to believe that rui costa will / has handed over all his numbers? strange timing but I guess bikepure wants a quieter tour. this really has been a day for splitting hairs.
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    ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #85 on: June 25, 2013, 16:47 »
    well, I guess this is between froome and bikepure rather than anything else but are we thus to believe that rui costa will / has handed over all his numbers? strange timing but I guess bikepure wants a quieter tour. this really has been a day for splitting hairs.
    "we are in negotiations with some riders but would prefer GT podiums produce data in the interests of transparency."

    That appears a direct parallel to a non denial denial. My guess? No, he's not gone for anyone yet as 'some riders' could vary from Mitch Fay Lovelock to Dan Martin.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #86 on: June 25, 2013, 17:17 »
    "we are in negotiations with some riders but would prefer GT podiums produce data in the interests of transparency."

    That appears a direct parallel to a non denial denial. My guess? No, he's not gone for anyone yet as 'some riders' could vary from Mitch Fay Lovelock to Dan Martin.

    it seems that it is Froome based - so odd all or none should be the way

    and the letter said 3 weeks tours but they wanted training data and tours , so some very fancy foot work by bike pure - result as Ram said = increased hits
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #87 on: June 25, 2013, 23:06 »
    Seems like Bike Pure is now back tracking slightly on this having been questioned on why only Froome

    they are saying that is was a coincidence that two things happened at once

    they asked for riders to provide data. Froome said no.

    they asked Froome if he still wanted to be linked to Bike Pure. he did not reply. so they removed his profile. just happens it happened at same time as they mentioned he would not provide data and just before tour

    it is crap like this that just makes me angry, at least it seems most people are seeing this as what it is

    if they are asking riders for data then why not remove every single rider on the site until they provide that data
    have they confirmed with every other rider that they still want to be linked with the site

    we have seen this before where Wiggins offered to release data and Sky said no. we all know the reason is that people will read anything into anything. releasing the data will prove nothing and is bound to release a number of amateur scientists that will find some 'proof' of cheating in it somewhere. there is no winning.

    Obviously the answer is an independent party that could view that data and certify riders in some way. That would be a massive task and require a huge amount of money. the compromise is the blood passport.
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #88 on: June 25, 2013, 23:29 »
    Awesome idea. If you're in you're all in if not you're out.

    Now as much as I don't like Froome, would this be happening if he wasn't a contender for the Tour de France, I highly doubt it.

    of course not. it is that traditional pre tour week when everyone is ready to go and there is not any racing to watch yet

    so lets make some sh*t up

    i on the other hand need to quickly make some stuff up on Jelajah before it starts today
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  • ram

    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #89 on: June 26, 2013, 07:10 »
    Just burn some Indonesian forests and Jelajah done. They may hold city criteriums if it doesn't clear, at least that's what the MNCF dep. chief said a few days ago.

    It's funny bikepure. They started with this pledge, and it's not too visible on their publishing anymore-

    Quote
    The Pledge not to cheat, is not between the rider and Bike Pure - But the between rider and his friends, family, fans and team mates.  It is the choice to ride clean and with Honor.

    The only place that is visible atm is here and here.

    Somewhere down the line, and they used to hand out financial details to those who requested earlier (quite a while ago now), they were operating at a loss (and a loan from one of the trust's founders, I think) and the 5 quid wristbands were not feasible. So what happens? A wristband now costs 250 quid of which a massive 5% goes to anti doping.

    Also ironic is the list of teams the riders represent in the second link, while Downing and Dowsett are listed in their current lot, I see a lot of HTC, Fly V Australia, and Jayco teams there.

    But the best has to be the website claiming it's a pledge to anti doping having a rider who got caught foul of an anti doping violation endorsing them within an hour of this non event and featuring on a page of their brochure.

    Of course the crusty turd CCN group would never help in keeping anything real. So it became a pledge to bikepure and not its original aim. Person with a website has his head get too big for what he is......... The dot-com bubble was still far more entertaining.
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