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AG

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Re: Chris Froome
« Reply #2550 on: February 06, 2018, 05:29 »
surely it cant be that hard though

surely the UCI panel can say to him - if you opt for a provisional suspension, then all the time since the AAF will count as time served ... but if you ride this race, then any ban will start from the date of the hearing.

It has to - surely.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2551 on: February 06, 2018, 07:42 »
    surely it cant be that hard though

    surely the UCI panel can say to him - if you opt for a provisional suspension, then all the time since the AAF will count as time served ... but if you ride this race, then any ban will start from the date of the hearing.

    It has to - surely.

    He has had that opportunity and passed on it. I think that has to be a grave error: projecting confidence is not the same as having a solid case. Perhaps Froome and his circle have overvalued his place in the sport.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2552 on: February 07, 2018, 02:35 »
    surely it cant be that hard though

    surely the UCI panel can say to him - if you opt for a provisional suspension, then all the time since the AAF will count as time served ... but if you ride this race, then any ban will start from the date of the hearing.

    It has to - surely.

    The Code indicates that isn't quite the case. If Froome accepts a provisional suspension, he gets credit only for time served from this point on; it's not retroactive to when the sample tested positive. See Article 10.11.3.3:

    Quote
    No credit against a period of Ineligibility shall be given for any time period before the effective date of the  Provisional Suspension

    As L'Arri says, Froome has missed the boat on that one. But even if he had accepted a provisional suspension at the time of the positive, and had accumulated months of credit from time served, he'd still be taking a risk. If the decision wasn't reached before the Giro, he couldn't ride it, even if he was subsequently cleared. If a decision was reached before the Giro, and he was suspended, he couldn't ride the Giro unless the suspension was short enough to end before the Giro. If it wasn't, even if he appealed and eventually prevailed at CAS, it wouldn't help him with the double.

    Froome I assume is trying to keep all his options open, which means pursuing the case in such a way that he can definitely ride the Giro and Tour. That way if he ultimately prevails, he will have those results. He probably will not be cleared, though, and then risks not only losing those results, but a long ban going forward. This is part of the risk of his go-for-broke strategy.
     
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  • « Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 02:46 by Merckx Index »

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2553 on: February 07, 2018, 09:39 »
    Froome I assume is trying to keep all his options open, which means pursuing the case in such a way that he can definitely ride the Giro and Tour. That way if he ultimately prevails, he will have those results. He probably will not be cleared, though, and then risks not only losing those results, but a long ban going forward. This is part of the risk of his go-for-broke strategy.
    And this is the key error to me.
    The whole idea of an unblemished Giro-Tour double went out the window in December when the whole case became public. From then on, in my opinion, it was always about cutting your losses as small as you could.
    Froome & co. went for broke in trying to not have any losses whatsoever - and this may (and likely will) come back to haunt them.
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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2554 on: February 10, 2018, 12:58 »
    For you guys that want to explain it all, here's another viewer that finds the tale as told - inexplicable.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/philippa-york/philippa-york-blog-chris-froome-is-at-the-centre-of-a-team-sky-mess-not-the-other-way-around/
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2555 on: February 14, 2018, 19:53 »
    Points of view on today's stage of the Ruta del Sol ...

    Froome

    Quote
    What was very touching today was how many riders from other teams came up to me during the stage to offer their support. That was very touching ... Obviously it's been the first time since I've seen a lot of guys now since this all happened so it's great to be able to catch up with them in person and see how much support there is out there in the peloton.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froome-thanks-other-riders-for-support-during-opening-ruta-del-sol-stage/

    Oliver Naesen #ag2r

    Quote
    [If this had happened with me] I wouldn't be allowed to race ... It's not really the normal way things happen: if you drive three times faster than the limit and you're flashed, they take your driver's license and then you can't drive around five months later with the idea that the camera might be faulty.

    Tim Wellens #lotto

    Quote
    We don't know the true facts and only read what's in the media but I wouldn't feel comfortable here if I was in Chris Froome's shoes and I don't know if I would start if I were him ... I think there are more here [in the peloton] who think he would have done better not to start than those who think he should race.

    http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.3144597 (NL)

    Quote
    Shows of support for Froome? I didn't see anything like that. Indeed I heard something rather the opposite, but that was just coming from the riders around me. Anyway I didn't hear much positive about him being there ... Everybody's got an opinion but I think nobody wants to talk because they worry about what others will think.

    https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_chris-froome-touche-par-le-soutien-du-peloton?id=9840307 (FR)

    Steven Kruijswijk #jumbo

    Quote
    I'm not so bothered about the Ruta del Sol. But maybe I'll compete with him in races that really matter ... I do not want him to be at the start of big races and then get suspended later.

    https://www.ad.nl/wielrennen/kruijswijk-het-moet-snel-duidelijk-zijn-froome-is-mijn-concurrent~a09ffd8f/ (NL)

    Maxime Monfort #lotto

    Quote
    There's way too much media attention around all that. There's a lot of problems with this case ... it's hard for us to have a solid opinion. By racing him, Sky are playing with fire a bit and perhaps they shouldn't have done that. But he's their guy for publicity ... and he's not yet suspended ... You can criticise them for a lot but you can't say they're breaking the rules here.

    https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_naesen-je-ne-pense-pas-que-froome-va-vivre-une-tres-belle-semaine?id=9840069 (FR)
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2556 on: February 14, 2018, 22:11 »
    Ah but L'arri, you haven't quoted Knees, Deignan, Poels, Puccio, Van Baarle or Ted Cruz.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2557 on: February 15, 2018, 08:56 »
    Ah but L'arri, you haven't quoted Knees, Deignan, Poels, Puccio, Van Baarle or Ted Cruz.

    All this talk that Froome and Sky are getting a rough deal but then the Anglophone media have only printed Froome's words on his first day back.

    Omerta lives and few other riders at the Ruta del Sol were actually willing to comment, so the only viewpoints we had heard so far from the race came from Froome, Brailsford, Landa and the Ruta's organisers.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2558 on: February 15, 2018, 09:35 »

     Omerta lives and few other riders at the Ruta del Sol were actually willing to comment, so the only viewpoints we had heard so far from the race came from Froome, Brailsford, Landa and the Ruta's organisers.

     I'm now confused.
    Don't the rider viewpoints you posted above count?
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    L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2559 on: February 15, 2018, 10:07 »
    I'm now confused.
    Don't the rider viewpoints you posted above count?

    Of course, it's just that I think I mauled the rather simple point I was trying to make in posting these viewpoints. Which was that, on the first day of the race, the Anglophone media had only reported Froome, Brailsford, Landa and the Ruta's organisers. So I thought that, where there were a few words from the other side of the fence on this issue (rather than just sitting on it), I would translate those and add them above. There has been a lot of talk that Froome and Sky were getting a rough deal but, on race day at least, the coverage was all in their favour.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2560 on: February 15, 2018, 11:47 »
    Of course, it's just that I think I mauled the rather simple point I was trying to make in posting these viewpoints. Which was that, on the first day of the race, the Anglophone media had only reported Froome, Brailsford, Landa and the Ruta's organisers. So I thought that, where there were a few words from the other side of the fence on this issue (rather than just sitting on it), I would translate those and add them above. There has been a lot of talk that Froome and Sky were getting a rough deal but, on race day at least, the coverage was all in their favour.

    Right, I'm with you, now. :)
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  • AG

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2561 on: February 16, 2018, 01:02 »
    http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/road/top-riders-contradict-froomes-claims-of-peloton-camaraderie_457279

    here you go Larri .... someone must be reading your stuff and taking note.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2562 on: February 16, 2018, 03:15 »
    http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/road/top-riders-contradict-froomes-claims-of-peloton-camaraderie_457279

    here you go Larri .... someone must be reading your stuff and taking note.

    I was thinkin' the same thing. So Froome is taking a Trump - lie like a rug and expect enough people to believe you that you'll get through. <sigh>

    Does that make him a Trumpette?
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

    Mellow Velo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2563 on: February 16, 2018, 11:01 »
    http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/road/top-riders-contradict-froomes-claims-of-peloton-camaraderie_457279




    I was thinkin' the same thing. So Froome is taking a Trump - lie like a rug and expect enough people to believe you that you'll get through. <sigh>

    Does that make him a Trumpette?

     I'm not sure how you can draw that, or indeed any conclusion from the article.
    In terms of who is talking and who is not, the one thing I glean from the article comes from the Oliver Naesen footnote.
     He commented earlier in the week, but is now fed up with the press badgering.
     So, it is understandable as to why riders may not wish to express their views, whichever way the feel, to the press.
    Plus, I am not sure that the press are much interested in what Joe Domestique has to say. Which limits the number of sources in Andalusia to maybe a dozen or so riders.
    Hence "Algarve Tony" gets cited.

     However, I guess we all would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that Fuglsang conversation. :D
    The question is: Are the press?
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2564 on: February 16, 2018, 11:38 »
    However, I guess we all would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that Fuglsang conversation. :D

     :D :D :D

    For those who didn't read it:

    Quote
    After speaking with VeloNews on Tuesday, Fuglsang was spotted chatting to Froome as the came into the finish line together. He later told a Danish journalist that he softened his opinion about Froome, adding, “He told me some things I did not know about his case.”

    Not sure how much Froome would have shared that wasn't safe-safe though, unless he trusts the likes of JF to keep schtum.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2565 on: February 16, 2018, 12:50 »
    :D :D :D

    For those who didn't read it:

    Not sure how much Froome would have shared that wasn't safe-safe though, unless he trusts the likes of JF to keep schtum.

    Yup. How many old saws do we have about how it ain't a secret anymore after you've told your 27 best friends?
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2566 on: February 16, 2018, 14:55 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/naesen-and-wellens-criticise-chris-froomes-presence-at-ruta-del-sol/

    The cavalry arrives at last with a fine story rehashing the same quotes.

    We have seen a lot of Naesen on television over the winter. He's been on pretty much every panel- or talk-show going and I wonder when he had the time to train.

    What I like about him is that he has absolutely no layers at all. No sophistry, no politicking, no subtlety. I attribute that, I suppose, to the fact that he is something of a late bloomer and has taken a bit more time to develop into his own man in relative obscurity compared with the WT vedettes.

    I don't know if this quote attributed to him is true - I heard it secondhand from race commentary - but it sums up the man for me: "I thought that I absolutely needed to win [last year's Belgian national RR title] so that I wouldn't have to wear those brown shorts".
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2567 on: February 16, 2018, 19:23 »
    Froome to ride Tirreno. As expected.
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2568 on: February 16, 2018, 21:13 »
    I wonder who is listening in Anaheim...

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    L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2570 on: April 16, 2018, 11:51 »
    Quote from: CN
    Froome will reportedly be paid 1.4 million Euro to ride the Giro d'Italia ...
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froome-im-not-going-to-keep-giving-a-running-commentary-on-my-case/

    Now we know why he's less interested in the sport's image than in exercising his right to compete. That should cover the legal bills, then.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2571 on: April 17, 2018, 07:35 »
    Interesting... In all the theorising about why Froome is spinning this out, I haven't seen mention of the theory that his career (in terms of earning potential) is over from the moment his ban is announced. Not saying this theory is correct either, just another one to add to the mix.

    Poor lamb, with Contador retired, Quintana' s star fading and Valverde not the rider he was, Froome would have been undisputed heavyweight champ (in terms of earning potential). Hey ho.
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2572 on: April 17, 2018, 19:21 »
    Interesting... In all the theorising about why Froome is spinning this out, I haven't seen mention of the theory that his career (in terms of earning potential) is over from the moment his ban is announced. Not saying this theory is correct either, just another one to add to the mix.

    Poor lamb, with Contador retired, Quintana' s star fading and Valverde not the rider he was, Froome would have been undisputed heavyweight champ (in terms of earning potential). Hey ho.

    It's the theory I most go along with. I think any ban for him will be career over so He's taking the route that takes longest to decide the outcome and probably in his mind the way that he thinks gives him the best chance of receiving no suspension.
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2573 on: April 17, 2018, 21:30 »

    Valverde not the rider he was...

    That's as maybe, but the old fellow is still looking pretty, pretty good!
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  • Joelsim

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2574 on: April 17, 2018, 23:15 »
    That's as maybe, but the old fellow is still looking pretty, pretty good!

    Valverde’s still got another decade in him yet!
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  • Francois the Postman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2575 on: April 18, 2018, 00:09 »
    Valverde’s still got another decade in him yet!

    Ever since watching Nosferatu in Venice, and seeing Nosferatu chase someone into the Church of Santa Maria Valverde, I have wondered about Valverde's seemingly undying youthfull peak years. I have also been questioning if the UCI was on the right track by insisting on a no-needle policy after a decade-long outbreak of unhuman performances, as I am not totally cinvinced the many skin-pr*cks witnessed on riders throughout the peloton were actually the product of needles. There is a remarkable correlation between Valverde's best years and a peloton suffering from skin-puncture after skin-puncture. Just sayin'.

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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2576 on: April 29, 2018, 23:57 »
    oh dear...

    So much as we feared but also expected, Kenya's finest is set to line up in Jerusalem in a weeks time.

    What are your tactics for the first GT of the year?

    - Enjoy all riders participation - innocent until B sample proves guilty and kidney voiding defence crumbles under cross examination and all that ?  In other words 'Go for the Slam Chrissie boy!'

    - Run your own mental version of the race deleting (sometimes with a degree of dexterity and much guesswork) the effect of his presence on each stage to try to ascertain a likely (although clearly really unfathomable) result without Chris's presence

    - Switch off completely, saddened that what is often the best GT of the year is off limits, because you have heard enough of his claims of innocence for the last 5 years, yet never in the role of a provisionally failed dope test rider, so this time enough is enough...

    - Combination of some of the above just hoping that anyone but F, literally anyone, pulls on the final maglia Rosa of this Giro?

    So genuinelyhow are you dealing with this potential cuckoo in the nest over the next 3 weeks of racing?

     
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  • Kiwirider

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2577 on: April 30, 2018, 03:00 »
    oh dear...

    What are your tactics for the first GT of the year?

    - Switch off completely, saddened that what is often the best GT of the year is off limits, because you have heard enough of his claims of innocence for the last 5 years, yet never in the role of a provisionally failed dope test rider, so this time enough is enough...


    This option ...

    In part this is because I am disgusted that Froome is starting at all ...

    ... and in part because USPS' drug fueled style of racing was as boring as all hell when they first introduced it, and time - and the shameless imitation by others, including Sky - hasn't made it any more worth watching.   :(

    Thankfully there is still DH MTB, MTB Crankworx and World Rally Champs to watch over this period ...   :cool

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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2578 on: April 30, 2018, 07:59 »

    So genuinelyhow are you dealing with this potential cuckoo in the nest over the next 3 weeks of racing?

     

     The same way that I deal with Valverde or Astana winning pretty much every week.
    By watching. :lol
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  • Flo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2579 on: April 30, 2018, 08:10 »
    oh dear...

    So much as we feared but also expected, Kenya's finest is set to line up in Jerusalem in a weeks time.

    What are your tactics for the first GT of the year?

    - Enjoy all riders participation - innocent until B sample proves guilty and kidney voiding defence crumbles under cross examination and all that ?  In other words 'Go for the Slam Chrissie boy!'

    - Run your own mental version of the race deleting (sometimes with a degree of dexterity and much guesswork) the effect of his presence on each stage to try to ascertain a likely (although clearly really unfathomable) result without Chris's presence

    - Switch off completely, saddened that what is often the best GT of the year is off limits, because you have heard enough of his claims of innocence for the last 5 years, yet never in the role of a provisionally failed dope test rider, so this time enough is enough...

    - Combination of some of the above just hoping that anyone but F, literally anyone, pulls on the final maglia Rosa of this Giro?

    So genuinelyhow are you dealing with this potential cuckoo in the nest over the next 3 weeks of racing?

     

    So really no different than usual  :lol
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