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LukasCPH

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Re: Chris Froome
« Reply #2730 on: June 07, 2018, 07:38 »
Are we really going to leave all the fun of this most recent BBC article to Twitter?

How Chris Froome won Giro d'Italia thanks to 'spectacular' stage 19 victory

Link to 53 minute audio interview
(Available for 29 more days.)

I'll be along shortly with my own take.  ;)
Oh the humanity.
:fp :S :fp
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    M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2731 on: June 08, 2018, 01:31 »
    Quote
    It was one of the most dramatic days of sport in recent memory: Chris Froome, after three weeks of injury, uncertain form and struggle, staged a spectacular 80km solo break on stage 19 of the Giro d'Italia to overturn a three-minute deficit and snatch an overall lead that he would never relinquish.

    Except Froome didn't stage it, SKY did, eh? Froome just finished it. Meh.

    Who's doing the Velorooms twitter? L'arri? Ya got a good one here: https://twitter.com/Velorooms/status/1004629199913660422

    Follow that one through a bit. Looks like Hoggie believes Froome is on some golden water and bread.

    But following thru that, I also got to here https://cyclingtips.com/2018/06/inscyd-view-a-scientific-analysis-of-chris-froomes-giro-ditalia-performance/. Which tells us Froome's performance is in the believable range, but also, that Froome really isn't any better than the other top 5 GC guys, or maybe only very slightly. Which reinforces what I said earlier - what we were talking about earlier - Froome won't leave Sky, because without the massive team Sky brings, Froome is no better than the other guys. It's the Steinbrenner approach, applied to cycling. Buy the best.

    But all this info also tells me that those who were talking up "The Big Plan" to attack on stage 19 may have been more right than I was thinking.

    :fp
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

    L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2732 on: June 08, 2018, 08:26 »
    Who's doing the Velorooms twitter? L'arri?

    Nope. No idea. Wondered myself, actually. JSG used to do it but he is undercover these days. :P
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    Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2733 on: June 12, 2018, 11:12 »
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44446354

    I see Lizzie Deignan has leapt to Froome's defence and advanced her own agenda at the same time. Bet Froome's delighted with her intervention  :lol.

    With friends like these...
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2734 on: June 12, 2018, 12:04 »
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44446354

    I see Lizzie Deignan has leapt to Froome's defence and advanced her own agenda at the same time. Bet Froome's delighted with her intervention  :lol.

    With friends like these...

    This article does a disservice to the public since the comments of an individual are reproduced uncritically:

    Quote
    "People have made up their minds not based on the full story"

    ... says Deignan, an individual who, I should add, refused to offer her own full story and that was why people made up their own minds in her case. Now you can argue that it shouldn't have been leaked but it was. You can also argue that a sample containing double the allowed limit with no truly convincing scientific evidence in the public domain today to explain it constitutes a pretty full story, but there is another quote that bugs me:

    Quote
    "I felt really let down by UK Anti-Doping at the time - that they didn't publicly defend the fact I was tested within a day of both missed tests and obviously all my samples have proved negative"

    UKAD is not there to publicly defend an individual. It is there to conduct anti-doping procedures and provide the necessary materials to initiate or rule out disciplinary proceedings, in the interests of protecting the integrity of sports. It would be totally inappropriate for an independent body to come out in defence of an athlete, especially by referring to other test results that have nothing to do with whereabouts incidents.

    Anti-doping is a very complex domain. It is a difficult and unrewarding topic that brings together in a novel and excruciating way the anal retentiveness of scientific analysis and the dusty tedium of codified law. Presenting such issues to a public more interested in consuming sports than criticising them is a problem. However, the solution is surely not to publish news articles that consist only of opinion and emotion.
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  • « Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 12:49 by L'arri »

    Caruut

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2735 on: June 12, 2018, 14:12 »
    I saw the same article in the Guardian and thought much the same. Uncritically repeating a press release. There are good reasons why being tested a day after missing an unannounced test is not a substitute for an unannounced test.

    Namely, there are plenty of substances which the body can clear out in that time. From memory, Bernard Kohl said HGH was one. It's disappointing that neither news organisation pointed out why UKADA cannot and should not do this.

    Quote from: Deignan
    They haven't taken ownership or apologised or anything. You're still working with a system that is not even good. I think there's still a long way to go for them to be transparent themselves.

    What is it that they have to apologise for, exactly? Having the temerity to apply the rules to Deignan?

    What kind of transparency would she like to see? So far as I can tell, she's asking for less transparency in her and Froome's cases.

    This comes off as pure self-interested muck-flinging to me.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2736 on: June 17, 2018, 01:30 »
    Oh, lordy, more grist.
    https://twitter.com/friebos/status/1007618956960653312

    Notice that Vayer steps in with a response tweet which seems to be completely supportive of Froome, but could also be absolute snark. I can not tell which. Anybody else got a clue?
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2737 on: June 17, 2018, 06:08 »
    Notice that Vayer steps in with a response tweet which seems to be completely supportive of Froome, but could also be absolute snark. I can not tell which. Anybody else got a clue?

    100% Snark. Count on it. Although the problem I always have with Vayer, and I've stated it previously, is that his grasp of proper English is quite weak, so he never comes across in print nearly as clever as I suppose he thinks he is. He should simply hire a qualified translator. Without one, he often looks foolish IMHO.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2738 on: June 17, 2018, 10:31 »
    100% Snark. Count on it. Although the problem I always have with Vayer, and I've stated it previously, is that his grasp of proper English is quite weak, so he never comes across in print nearly as clever as I suppose he thinks he is. He should simply hire a qualified translator. Without one, he often looks foolish IMHO.


    Yeah and on Twitter too. It's actually a very difficult medium to work if you want to be taken seriously as an expert, even in your own language. It's better used to point to content elsewhere as getting down a balanced,  nuanced piece of analysis in just 140 characters is pretty futile.
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  • Cluadio Cappuccino

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2739 on: June 17, 2018, 14:11 »
    Vayer is a bit of a nutter, his French Anglais is so bad much of what he says is lost in translation. When he writes in French it sometimes makes sense...
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2740 on: June 20, 2018, 12:57 »
    I've had online conversations with him in French and he doesn't always make a lot of sense in that either. :P Most of it is poor quality writing skills (he is in fact very articulate in person) and the rest is because he has this deliberate pretence of dumbness, which is quite common among French folks (in my experience) and (for me) harder to accept.

    Vayer knows the score but he likes to chatter and enjoys the attention. He's also still closely connected to the game: if he was unambivalent, serious and properly targeted in his criticisms he would lose those connections pretty fast. Think of it as omertà-lite.
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  • Cluadio Cappuccino

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2741 on: June 20, 2018, 18:29 »
    Yes he is a nutter.
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