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Drummer Boy

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Re: Chris Froome
« Reply #2790 on: July 10, 2018, 14:41 »
But salbutamol, in high doses, is believed to work almost like an anabolic steroid, a.o. stripping every gram of extra fat you might have.

This touches on an important aspect of all doping. It seems not uncommon that various substances have been used in ways that "experts" either hadn't anticipated or simply don't understand. It's almost quaint now to think back about the accusations of Landis using testosterone. People may forget this, but at the time, there was no shortage of doctors, trainers and other "experts" who openly questioned if testosterone would even be useful to cyclists, even though it was listed as a banned substance.

Yes, this argument was actually made at the time. The belief being that (A) Testosterone was primarily used to build muscle mass, and that bulking up was contrary to what a TdF-contending cyclist would want to do to their bodies, and that (B) the benefits of testosterone only occurred gradually and after a period of time of sustained use. At Floyd's USADA hearing, I remember Joe Papp's testimony where he explained how he would almost instantly feel the benefits of testosterone, and how micro-dosing was used to avoid testing positive. That his testimony was called into question at all is laughable ten years later. Testosterone use, in small doses, as a recovery agent isn't disputed by anyone anymore. It was probably one of the more commonly abused PEDs for many years. And yet, at the time, many people, including some in the medical field, simply couldn't wrap their heads around it. It was a failure of imagination, if ever there was one.

This is why I generally ignore all arguments in support of athletes when it comes to why, how and for what use, certain substances may or may not be used. Cheaters are always ahead of the game, and imaginative uses and applications of products have always been key to their methods. A drug designed for one ailment may have often have hidden or unintended benefits for an athlete when applied in an unconventional manner, or one in which the drug was never originally conceived for.

So if more than one cyclists is ever found to have some sort of topical cream that's marketed for making finger nails shinier, or a spray that is marketed for making eyebrows more stylish, I'll just assume that someone discovered that mixing either one of them with their morning coffee resulted in increased stamina and/or speed, regardless of what the products manufacturers may claim.


Sidenote:
Joe Papp, one of the most infamous of admitted dopers, was himself busted for using testosterone at the Tour of Turkey in 2006. And yet he, too, claims that although he was plenty doped-up on other products at the time, testosterone wasn't one of them. So much for testing. Go figure.
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2791 on: August 02, 2018, 20:01 »

    The leak did not come from Sky.  And it did not come from Cookson. Brailsford, Michele and Froome knew where the leak was from and that is why Froome didn't back off like a scalded kid and go and sit in a corner whilst the grown-ups decided on his punishment.  He had been dealt the ace of the trump suit and was gauranteed to win the only trick that mattered - the last one.


    any hint about where the leak came from?
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2792 on: August 04, 2018, 01:35 »
    https://www.velonews.com/2018/08/news/hinault-refuses-to-keep-mouth-shut-over-froome-case-and-changing-sport_473957

    Hinault, ever known as a good-tempered, easy-going sort, is still speaking out. I like what he has to say here. There is some generality to the comments, but there is also some specificity. Posted under "Froome", since that is where it has the most relevance.
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    blutto

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2793 on: August 04, 2018, 12:21 »
    any hint about where the leak came from?

    ....here is a thought, and yeah it draws heavily from the conspiracy swamp, but this could be a variation of the way the Bush team dealt with The Shrub's problematic "military record ( his time in the reserves was getting increased attention and it didn't paint W in a very good light so Rove decided to get ahead of the problem and floated a story along a line somewhat similar to the truth but with a glitch or two that would ensnare the eventual story-teller and eventually squelch the story.....that in a nutshell is how and why Dan Rather got "Dan Rathered"....the story he told was true but the way he said was wrong and he got tarred for that...)...

    ...so I could see the Sky brain-trust realizing they had a problem that under normal means could not possibly disappear so they may have well decided to get ahead of the story by leaking it...

    ....and just oddly enough the reporter who broke the Froome story just got hired by Sky.....go figure eh....from one bottom feeding propaganda organ to another, wonder if she'll get a corner office with a view....

    https://twitter.com/marthakelner/status/1024984826510827520
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2794 on: August 04, 2018, 15:31 »
    ...so I could see the Sky brain-trust realizing they had a problem that under normal means could not possibly disappear so they may have well decided to get ahead of the story by leaking it...

    I think this is plausible, although UCI has plenty of history there too. As for Kelner, her now former employer isn't too healthy these days but it does smell a bit funny, so we'll have to see what sort of stuff she publishes on the dark side.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2795 on: November 25, 2018, 03:12 »
    Ok, here we go - the REAL tale behind the wins.

    https://twitter.com/cyclismedopage/status/1066382336504328192

    LOOK at that weight curve! What is it that rational ppl say when one talks honestly about trimming the weight on bikes? That we should take 5 lbs off OUR weight - best way to increase output! AND, we on VR noticed these losses - we just had no idea what they actually were.

    AND, as we all will assume, Froome wasn't losing that weight on the cabbage soup diet! Once again, probably not banned drugs, but whatever was legal, I'll bet they were doing it.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2796 on: May 10, 2019, 16:09 »
    A bit harsh, but it is noticeable that many ppl DO feel this way:

    https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/1126478753369083905

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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2797 on: May 10, 2019, 17:31 »
     Didn't this topic get done to death, last year?
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2798 on: May 11, 2019, 12:50 »
    Didn't this topic get done to death, last year?

    :lol  I guess not! Frankly, I kinda thought the topic was a little dead, myself - so I was a bit surprised to see that tweet thread. But I thought it was worth sharing - just so we can keep up with the conversation. And this seemed like the proper thread for it.

    A bit ironically, coming back to the thread gave me a minute to go back over the past couple pages of posts. I've been focusing on regular life things, so all the conversation here got pretty much forgotten.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2799 on: October 12, 2019, 23:12 »
    One of these guys is skinnier than a marathon runner.

    The other fatty just broke an absurd record.

    https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/1182946666258808834

    https://twitter.com/TeamINEOS/status/1182922185813512192

    Fully clothed, and Froome still looks like a skeletal version of the man next to him.

    I can only image what he'll look like when he starts cutting weight for the Tour.  :S
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2800 on: October 15, 2019, 16:40 »
    With all the EPO coming out of Kenyan runners, I have no faith in Kipchoge. Even if he wasn't doped, he drafted the whole race - which is like drafting in a TT in cycling - at least kinda. Not quite as much, but for someone to draft over a marathon, they have to be following somebody who is faster for at least most of the distance.

    I'll tell you what tho - re Froomey? Glanced at the Tour 2020 route - and I'm thinking I might have to get in on the prediction thread, 'cause right now I can predict either Froome or Enal to win. More in the Betting thread.
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  • « Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 16:51 by M Gee »

    Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2801 on: October 15, 2019, 17:02 »

    I'll tell you what tho - re Froomey? Glanced at the Tour 2020 route - and I'm thinking I might have to get in on the prediction thread, 'cause right now I can predict either Froome or Enal to win. More in the Betting thread.

    Wow cheers MG top tip on two rank outsiders there!!   :D
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2802 on: October 15, 2019, 18:18 »
    I have no faith in Kipchoge. Even if he wasn't doped, he drafted the whole race

    Well, it wasn't even a "race." It was staged event to break the 2 hour mark. He had over 40 pacers who took turns as a relay team, plus a "laser-guided car" (whatever that means)  in front to keep them on the proper time schedule.

    That's why it won't count as an official marathon record. But the whole thing is farcical anyway. Magic shoes, etc.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2803 on: October 15, 2019, 21:26 »
    Well, it wasn't even a "race." It was staged event to break the 2 hour mark. He had over 40 pacers who took turns as a relay team, plus a "laser-guided car" (whatever that means)  in front to keep them on the proper time schedule.

    That's why it won't count as an official marathon record. But the whole thing is farcical anyway. Magic shoes, etc.
    Right. Actually, I didn't realize it wasn't a race. I'd heard about the pacers and the shoes and all, pre-event. I didn't bother paying any more attention. I suppose that does put this in a similar category to breaking land speed records on a bicycle - drafted, salt flats, all that.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2804 on: October 15, 2019, 21:29 »
    Wow cheers MG top tip on two rank outsiders there!!   :D
    There ya go, give me the sh*t! :D I was reading the Velonews review of the course - and they are saying it is an attempt to break the Ineos hold. But I think it does the opposite.

    Well, I can't remember the last time somebody came to me for advice on who to bet for. Probably worth knowing, that.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Chris Froome
    « Reply #2805 on: October 16, 2019, 11:31 »
    He had over 40 pacers who took turns as a relay team, plus a "laser-guided car" (whatever that means)

    Apparently it means this:  :S





    Just wait until those lasers become self-aware.
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