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Vinokourov LBL 2010
« on: October 29, 2012, 14:22 »
The Emails sent by Vinokourov to Kolobnev were leaked by L’illustre last year. That’s well in the public knowledge after CN also published an article about it last year. Vinokourov claimed he’d sue L’illustre post that and then the case went eerily silent. Was it just a random accusation?

The email article by CN
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/emails-between-vinokourov-and-kolobnev-published

And an immediate article after that
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-denies-he-bought-2010-liege-bastogne-liege-win


On the fourth of July this year, another article was published by L’illustre. This though was hardly reported by the English cycling media, though it got a bit of coverage in France.
http://www.illustre.ch/Alexandre-Vinokourov-achat-victoire-cyclisme-Liege-Bastogne-Liege-Kolobnev_162322_.html

The claim is that they have the transaction ID Vinokourov’s payments to Kolobnev. A sum of 100k Euros transferred on the 12th of July 2010 and then a further 50k Euros sent on the 28th of December that year. Good Christmas gift for Kolobnev.

Later in the article is Natalya Kivilev, widow of Andrei, alleging that Vinokourov paid 3000 Euros to other pros for him to win the Paris Nice in 2003 who passed away in that race.


Is that you Hansie? And why was this brushed under the carpet?
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 14:26 »
    The future ...............

    fliper
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 15:27 »
    The last article goes like this:

    The 2012 Tour de France, which began last Saturday in Liège, counts at least one proven cheat in its ranks: rider number 189. On December 6th last year, L'Illustré revealed how the Kazakh Alexandre Vinokourov, leader of the Astana team, had bought his victory in the 2010 Liège-Bastogne-Liège and published the content of certain emails exchanged with his breakaway companion that day, the Russian Alexandr Kolobnev, which left no doubt: he had arranged not to be embarassed in the final sprint by offering a substantial sum of money on the latter letting him go in the last 500 metres.

    Today we can publish the final missing evidence: a copy of the €100,000 transfer (number AA4849135) sent by Vinokourov on 12 July 2010 from his Monaco account to another in Locarno belonging to Alexandr Kolobnev. But it doesn't stop there: on 28 December 2010, Vinokourov sent a second payment to his friend Kolobnev of €50,000 (number AA5537304)...

    NO ENQUIRY

    According to our information, the Liège prosecutor's office may soon open an investigation to clear up the exact circumstances in which Alexandre Vinokourov achieved his victory on its soil on 26 April 2010 during the 96th edition of the race.

    Soon after the publication of our first revelations, which had a strong impact on the world of cycling, the UCI announced its desire in a press release to "clearly establish the facts" and asked our magazine to "send everything in its possession that may enable us to establish the clear course of events". But last January, the UCI made it known, rather laconically, that no sanctions would be taken against Vinokourov. Had they at least put together the beginnings of an enquiry? Had they interviewed the protagonists linked to this affair? Nothing is less certain. "We asked the Swiss magazine to provide us with evidence of the allegations but the only response we received was that it could not divulge its sources. So we haven't the least chance of pursuing this matter any further," explained the UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani. Such was his way of putting it: the UCI was naturally stricken by our refusal to reveal our sources (which incidentally has nothing to do with the case itself), but the international organisation did receive from us a complete copy of the emails between Vinokourov and Kolobnev in our possession - the two riders have never contested the authenticity of these emails. But the laws of the sport are apparently not those of us mere ordinary mortals.

    The same day that our article went out, Alexandre Vinokourov issued his rebuttal and let it be known in a press release that he intended to sue our magazine. Just talk? Six months later, we haven't received anything. "I cannot accept this gossiping about me," said Vinokourov, suspended for two years after a positive test at the 2007 Tour de France. "Behind this whole business there are certainly some people who are out to get me."

    Angry widow

    Yet other tongues are wagging today about Vinokourov's way of doing things. A woman steps out of the shadows. Her name is Natalya Kivilve, the widow of the rider Andrei Kivilev, who died on 12 March 2003 as a result of a heavy crash in Paris-Nice while he was adjusting his earpiece - a tragedy which prompted the UCI t make helmets obligatory in all professional races. The Kazakh Andrei Kivilev, 4th in the 2001 Tour de France, was a close friend and ally of Alexandre Vinokourov, who was also the godfather of his son. They were almost neighbours on the Côte d’Azur and the two families met up regularly. Natalya Kivilev is today angry with those who have profited from her misfortune. She says she has suffered many humiliations since then. "Today," she recalls, "I have decided to tell the truth and free myself. Since the death of my husband, Vinokourov has appropriated his memory and uses his name. I can prove that he is a proper cheat. During the 2003 Paris-Nice, for example, I know that he profited from the death of my husband by paying €3,000 to riders so they would let him win, on the pretext that he wanted to dedicate his victory to Andrei!" However, she will not say more for the moment. She has just written a book that she is getting ready for publication in which she will reveal much more, notably on what her husband had told her about his friend Vinokourov. But doubtless even these will not be enough for the UCI to decide at last to investigate properly...
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 15:43 »
    Cheers.

    So why was this not looked into? Oh I didn't know 150k was a share of bonuses.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 15:53 »
    Cheers.

    So why was this not looked into? Oh I didn't know 150k was a share of bonuses.

    TBH, ram, I think the anglo press took the UCI's word for it and the story just ended there.  ::)
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 16:05 »
    And copy paste HQ would be one of the best at it. But there's a lot that can be done even apart from the UCI. It's well against the Belgian laws too if true.
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 16:06 »
    I had money on Kolobnev that day...anyone got his e-mail address?  ;)
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 18:52 »
    I had money on Kolobnev that day...anyone got his e-mail address?  ;)

    I had as well. Had approximately €15 at odds 40 for Kolobnev to win >:(
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 19:12 »
    I had as well. Had approximately €15 at odds 40 for Kolobnev to win >:(

    Wouldnt the  deal have been more that Kolobnev tires hisself out making sure Vino stays away, rather than that he merely refuses to contest the finish? That way it would have possibly been Gilbert or Valverde who potentially had a better chance.

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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    kabloemski

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 20:19 »
    :-D
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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 20:21 »
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #12 on: November 03, 2012, 14:28 »
    I see this report
    http://www.wsoctv.com/news/ap/crime/report-vinokourov-paid-kolobnev-to-win-2010-liege/nSwkS/

    Bit of scouring after that searching for said paper and
    http://www.corriere.it/sport/12_novembre_03/le-email-dei-ciclisti-sulla-gara-truccata-andrea-pasqualetto_3b8a611a-2583-11e2-a01c-141eb51207fd.shtml


    Quote
    Il primo di 100 mila euro datato 12 luglio 2010, il secondo di 50 mila del 28 dicembre .
    Per la procura di Padova ce n'è abbastanza per concludere che «l'ufficio ha raccolto prove inoppugnabili - scrive la procura nel documento allegato al fascicolo inviato alle autorità belghe e svizzere -, Vinokourov ha promesso e versato a Kolobnev 150 mila euro al fine di assicurarsi la vittoria nella competizione, così da raggiungere un risultato diverso dal corretto e leale svolgimento della competizione»
    So, what does that say? That the Padova prosecutors have concluded that the allegations by L'illustre are....

    Seriously, I'd like to trust someone other than google which says that he paid 150k to kolobnev. The header is pretty evident
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  • L'arri

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    ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 19:08 »
    At least he shared his bonus with Kolobnev ::)

    Hope that he's banned for life, and if it's viable in any way, from management of a team. Also should happen to Kolobnev.

    Apart from Padova, there's always the Belgian anti corruption laws to try him by too. Definitely this would fall under the ambit of one of them. Whether it's enough material is another question.
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  • « Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 19:21 by ram »

    L'arri

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #15 on: November 03, 2012, 19:23 »
    At least he shared his bonus with Kolobnev ::)

    Hope that he's banned for life, and if it's viable in any way, from management of a team. Also should happen to Kolobnev.

    Apart from Padova, there's always the Belgian anti corruption laws to try him by too. Definitely this would fall under the ambit of one of them. Whether it's enough material is another question.

    Pretty sure that the Belgian anti-corruption laws are designed to support the corrupt. After all, look at who's on the podium with Vinokourov and Kolobnev. Yes, it's the late Papa. ;)

    But seriously, Vinokourov's out of jurisdiction now, so anything they do in Liège won't touch him anyway. Let's hope the UCI actually does something now, since its own complicity is out there in the public domain.
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #16 on: November 03, 2012, 19:29 »
    I'm guessing by jurisdiction you mean the fact that he's not a resident of Belgium rather than said laws not being applicable for specified time period.

    What I do wonder, and this is nothing that's connected to fact (much like VIno's win ;) ), is that isn't it possible to go down the US route of getting him in custody on a spurious charge like a dodgy parking ticket and scour out the sh*t with him there.

    And yeah, hopefully the UCI does get off its arse and do something. Fat chance of that though.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #17 on: November 03, 2012, 19:34 »
    I'm guessing by jurisdiction you mean the fact that he's not a resident of Belgium rather than said laws not being applicable for specified time period.

    What I do wonder, and this is nothing that's connected to fact (much like VIno's win ;) ), is that isn't it possible to go down the US route of getting him in custody on a spurious charge like a dodgy parking ticket and scour out the sh*t with him there.

    I don't know the law so well here but I would think that it would be difficult to justify a European arrest. However, I think it is also true that Astana's service course is here, so he'd better be careful which races he comes to. ;)
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #18 on: November 03, 2012, 19:46 »
    Stoopid EU.



    He had be wary of that.

    The way the UCI has reacted, by sweeping under the rug rather than having any form of investigation, it can't be the end of fixing. It's just that they don't care, much like doping in athletics and elsewhere.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #19 on: November 03, 2012, 20:05 »
    Lost all respect for Vino now..

    He has always been a rider who has been full of love for the sport and a great determination to win, but evidently these attributes were his undoing and it only spells another problem which the sport really should and probably will not address...
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    AG

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #20 on: November 04, 2012, 00:38 »
    I just find it astonishing that the UCI ... the sports international governing body ... doesnt actually care that races are being fixed.

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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #21 on: November 04, 2012, 00:56 »
    And they've received a dossier from Padova's investigation. ::) Not too convinced that they'll try to uncover the sh*t that is even now. It could be up to the Belgians.

    Also, fair play to L'illustre, lots questioned their credibility in December last year.

    Lost all respect for Vino now..

    He has always been a rider who has been full of love for the sport and a great determination to win, but evidently these attributes were his undoing and it only spells another problem which the sport really should and probably will not address...
    With you on the first. Just about the second point, if he'd loved the sport so much, winning at all costs (literally) would not be an imperative.
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #22 on: November 04, 2012, 02:42 »
    Hazard a guess which cycling news agency has not yet published a story on this? Maybe legal got a tap on the shoulder.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #23 on: November 04, 2012, 17:03 »
    Le Soir clarifies today that the Padova prosecutors discovered the evidence of Vinokourov's LBL purchase while conducting enquiries on the Ferrari investigation.

    http://www.lesoir.be/112465/article/sports/cyclisme/2012-11-04/%C2%ABl%E2%80%99achat%C2%BB-victoire-li%C3%A8ge-bastogne-li%C3%A8ge-par-vinokourov-en-justice

    Quote
    The past relationship between "Vino" and Michele Ferrari, [who is] at the centre of a major international doping investigation being directed by the Padova public prosecutor Benedetto Roberti, led the authorities to unearth these emails.

    "Remember, I had an excellent chance there," wrote Kolobnev according to the message of 26 April obtained by the Corriere della Sera, "I did it out of respect for you and your situation at the time. Even my wife wasn't too upset that I came second because it was you who won ... So now I'm waiting patiently. Note down my details and delete this message."  [;D - L'arri]

    Vinokourov replied on May 8th: "Don't worry, you did the right thing ... don't worry about what we agree, I'll sort it out. You'll just have to wait a bit."

    According to the details of banking transactions sent by the Neuchâtel public prosecutor to Padova, two cheques of €100,000 and €50,000 went from a Monaco account held by Vinokourov to another in Locarno belonging to Kolobnev.
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  • AG

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #24 on: November 04, 2012, 23:38 »
    so are they (UCI / Belgian Cycling / LBL organisers) going to actually do anything about it?
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #25 on: November 05, 2012, 00:35 »
    If it's up to the UCI, nothing happens. The allegations and reports are strong enough to warrant further investigation. They were in December, they were in July.

    The only chance comes from Liege, and not ASO, but the city council (or provincial govt depending on who has jurisdiction over the police force) of Liege itself. If they start digging into this case, then they'll have a far greater level of freedom into what they can poke their noses far more into this than the UCI and they would also have no vested interest in trying to show the sport as free from fixing.

    I loathe to bring other forums into discussion here, but for a twitter user who gets mentioned in the NYT (no, not race radio) for being part of the Armstrong lynch (or put a stake in his pie) brigade, the claim that bringing up an old case was a UCI conspiracy/smokescreen was completely baffling (it's a Padova investigation, wtf has the UCI to do with that). The first place I'd go now if I wanted Vinokourov to get off is to the UCI.

    Le Soir clarifies today that the Padova prosecutors discovered the evidence of Vinokourov's LBL purchase while conducting enquiries on the Ferrari investigation.

    http://www.lesoir.be/112465/article/sports/cyclisme/2012-11-04/%C2%ABl%E2%80%99achat%C2%BB-victoire-li%C3%A8ge-bastogne-li%C3%A8ge-par-vinokourov-en-justice

    That's what the corriere article mentioned too; don't know what is to confuse there that people think the UCI is actually doing something apart from warming their posteriors.

    And Padova investigators are legends who defo read this thread  :win
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  • AG

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #26 on: November 05, 2012, 01:02 »
    yeah I didnt really understand how it could be a UCI smokescreen either.

    It wasnt the UCI who brought it back up, it certainly doesnt look good for them (in as far as they didnt investigate the claims when they first surfaced, not that they were involved) ... and now that Vino is manager of Astana, they certainly CAN take action in licencing/invitations to races etc.

    So can LBL / Belgian Cycling too ...
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  • ram

    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #27 on: November 05, 2012, 01:14 »
    Cheers, yeah that could definitely happen. Was looking at it solely through the possible Belgian law angle (oh, and the bannage angle). Will it though? Unless Padova's claimed proof is definitive, or overwhelming, do you expect the UCI to do anything about it?
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  • « Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 01:33 by ram »

    froome19

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #28 on: November 05, 2012, 18:02 »
    Well here is your answer:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-investigate-vinokourovs-liege-bastogne-liege-victory

    Quote
    "The UCI confirms it has received the part of the Padua police investigation dossier regarding the doubts about Alexandre Vinokourov's victory at the 2010 Liege-Bastogne-Liege," a UCI spokesman told Cyclingnews.

    "The UCI has always treated this kind of problem extremely seriously but when the matter first arose following a report in the L'illustre newspaper, there was insufficient evidence to open an investigation. Today, after receiving the information contained in the dossier from Padua, the UCI has decided to open an official investigation. Vinokourov and Kolobnev have been informed and asked to say when they can travel to Aigle so that they respond to the accusations."

    At least one thing they have done right.. still a long way to go.
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  • froome19

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    Re: Vinokourov LBL 2010
    « Reply #29 on: November 05, 2012, 18:06 »
    Wow missed this one the first read!!

    Quote
    "If it is discovered that UCI rules have been broken, the matter will be referred to the UCI Licence Commission and could also involve the Astana and Katusha teams," the UCI spokesman confirmed to Cyclingnews.
    Ok, so that does not actually mean anything and nothing will probably happen but nevertheless interesting to see how the UCI is approaching the matter.. :D
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