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Ram

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Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2016, 15:42 »
Statement reads like balls, imo.

Should've been suspended. As Rasmussen, as Offredo.
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  • Havetts

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #91 on: August 03, 2016, 21:27 »
    She says she hates doping sinners and she values integrity highly, so wrap the discussion up. She would never!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #92 on: August 03, 2016, 22:41 »
    This is really difficult, and there is no evidence that she has doped despite the frustrating test situation.  However putting this specific case to one side we have got to the stage where if you miss three tests then unless there is a an unequivocal justification (within redrafted regulations) then you take a reduced censure for missed tests - 2 years; and if you really love the sport then you take the penalty and accept that right or wrong, for the good of the sport in general these tests are essential and will be enforced. 

    Back to this case any success on Sunday is now incredibly tainted, not by guilt but by the stain of the situation that is discussed in detail above.  Nowhere near the same level as Vino in London, which was gut wrenching, but if you loved the sport despite your innocence should you ride and further inflame the debate, or withdraw and set more hares running??  I really don't know and wish I could have just cheered her on without this complex backstory

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  • just some guy

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    pastronef

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #94 on: August 05, 2016, 10:01 »
    Pauline takes a selfie with Pellizz... ah no, with Jannie Longo  :P

    https://www.twitter.com/cyclesierra/status/760731992963051521
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #95 on: August 27, 2016, 12:30 »
    OK so a few weeks on and after the dust has settled let's take a look.  The premise at post one was "why does women's cycling get such a free pass ?"  and then the poster brought us back to the realities of life and the sport with the suggestion that anyone who doubts there are not women as committed to lies, deception and doping, just as seriously as their male equivalents are dumb, and being male, probably thinking using that part of their brain located in their testes.

    Up thread I was given a hard time about "silent bans" - basically I was being fanciful suggesting they could exist in this day and age of easy and immediate mass communication.  The logic behind them seemed counter productive - why would any sane organisation use them ?  Surely they are self defeating ?  My answer was of course they were self defeating but the idiots who used them, used them not because they wanted to but because of a series of prior dumb actions meant they were basically in a position where the silent ban v. going public was a far more favourable situation to the organisation, generally the National Federation having compromised itself upstream and to go public would bring even greater scorn and negative press on themselves for prior actions.

    Well even the cynic that is myself could not have imagined that in 2016, just prior to the Olympics the theory that "the silent ban exists in contemporary sport" would be proven with a factual account and that person would a) be a GB star and b) a cyclist and c) the current World Road champion.   So let's take a deeper look at how this mess may have occurred.


    The facts are that Lizzie has not tested positive but has committed three whereabouts violations. 
    She was banned from competing as a consequence.
    We know she appealed the conditions relating to at least two of the violations and the CAS found in her favour in one of them, (which was all they needed to do to get her off the hook).

    Lizzie (and her team) lied to the public about the reason she left the Giro stating it was for reasons of ill health.
    Lizzie (and her team) lied to the public about the reason she did not ride the GB champs stating it was so that she could prepare properly for Rio.
    Lizzie (and her team) lied to the public about the reason she did not ride La Course, stating it was so that she could prepare properly for Rio.
    Lizzie (and her team) lied to the public about the reason she did not ride the London race, stating it was so that she could prepare properly for Rio.

    From this press campaign, based on lies, Lizzie garnered favourable comment from the cycling journalists in various places stating wasn't she devoted, foregoing an inevitable national title/La course /etc. in favour of dedicating herself to maximising her preparation for the biggest prize in women's cycling.   Hell - in every negative there just has to be a positive you can spin.  Fact - she span it, she did not need to but she did.
     
    Lizzie tells us that one of the reasons she had a whereabouts violation was because of a family crisis.  We know that she is an inveterate twitter poster. Conveniently around the time of the "crisis" dear Lizzie has a silent twitter account. However, late on the day before the violation - which came in the early am of the following day, she was busy arranging bands for her post-Rio Wedding and posting to two companies about the band she had chosen to play at her wedding.  During this "family crisis" she found time to wipe her twitter record clean of all this activity.  Two of the companies had responded to her during this "crisis", one of them taking a screen shot of her tweet she had removed and using it to promote themselves.  Had they not done so, Lizzie's deception would have been complete and we would have had no evidence other than a block of "no activity" in her twitter account, rather than a "wiped account".   The evidence as presented to us would have been of some event being so traumatic to stop her usual activity of posting about all sorts of nonsense like the band she has booked for her wedding.

    Then we have three very interesting aspects of the story which raise many more questions than they answer.

    One - on the face of it quite innocent.  After the second violation UKAD and BC have a specific meeting with her warning her of the seriousness of her situation.  BC even employ some guy to wipe her backside and change her nappy.  This is astonishing given the continued story we have had about her, and from her, about her awesome attention to detail.  Firstly this "fastidious" person needs a minder for something so basic !  Then one admin error away from a career ending violation and you don't notice Mr Nappy Changer did not show up for three weeks ?  Either you can swallow that story - in which case I wish you well and may your God look after you in this life and the next - or you can accept the absolutely show stopping contradiction it generates. Not a single athlete has come out since and said they sympathise with Lizzie over this.  All professional athletes, have said completing whereabouts dominates their lives but it is a necessary fact of the life of an elite sports star.  This is an aspect with little room for a grey area.  It is either black or white, you either have to believe her tale or doubt it and doubting it, causes doubt elsewhere, that only a fool could suspend.

    Two - The timing of the ban.  On the face of it, hellish convenient. She committed her third violation.   Afterwards she was allowed to start to ride and then finish, and win, the new GB race, the race with the largest prize purse on the whole of the women's circuit, the golden jewel in the crown of the new born again, GB-centric women's World Tour.   The ban could have come in earlier, straight after notice of the third violation but somehow, some weird decision was taken to not apply it for a few weeks - Why ?  I will develop my answer to that after the third point.

    Three - the absolute lock-down on news about the ban.  It was a silent ban.  Post the leak, we had a load of rubbish about the rights of the athlete etc.  Hold on a minute.  One of the tenants of the social order of Western Democracies is that justice is not only conducted but observed to be conducted.  Making the news at a similar time was https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/06/senior-uk-soldier-accused-of-sexual-assault-in-canada.  The case has not been heard yet, no decision made and the whole of the world knows the guy's name and what he is accused of.  His case has not yet come to appeal, because a verdict has not yet been reached.  Somehow, all the Lizzie fans are screaming that despite an official verdict having been reached - she is banned, somehow her being is so precious that the decision must remain hidden until the CAS have heard her appeal and produced their view on it and I would add, there is no compunction on the CAS making their decision public or even making public that they have even heard such a case on her behalf.  I would suggest those arguing most strongly for the sanctity of such an obviously flawed system are not doing so on behalf of "precious Lizzie" and her ilk but for entirely selfish reasons - they wish to maintain their own delusion.  They have so much emotional investment in this delusion they know it is best if they preserve themselves from uncomfortable fact.  If Lizzie tumbles, so might Froome, and if he goes it could be Brad and who knows where the domino chain might stop - Boardman and Keen - heaven forbid - that would put the skids under the whole GB Olympic success story. 

    So let's look at three and two together.  Nobody is saying Lizzie and BC constructed the system that enabled silence over the decision and appeal process at CAS to be facilitated.  It was there, designed in by the sporting officials who constructed the process.  These are the same bunch of numpties that got sport to where it is at the current time, these are the Sepp Blatters, the Samaranchs, the Diacks of the World, to whom dishonesty and theft are part of the natural order of life to be exploited by the most able.   Cookson, Verbruggen and Coe are just treading in well worn footsteps, their lack of fibre not enabling them to tread the more difficult alternative.   A vehicle existed to enable BC, UKSport UKAD and last of all Lizzie, to keep the whole thing out of the public eye.  UKSport and UKAD need a fig leaf to put in place if ever it becomes public so they don't want to go "soft" on Lizzie and let her off. BC do not want one of their stars felled because of the domino effect.   However, you need to know an event like the Women's tour of Britain will have a vast investment of public money in its organisation.  Yes there is a headline sponsor, but the bulk of the money for running it comes from the public purse by way of a distribution of lottery funds authorised by UKSport.  In 1999 Hein and Pat had a situation where Lance tested positive at the tour but presented Johan and him with a "give us a good reason and we will let you off" opportunity.  Johan and Lance googled things until they came up with a saddle sore cream that contained the stuff and then told the doc to sign a fictitious post dated TUE, which a very grateful Hein and Pat accepted. Of course Hein and Pat were both one step away from the actual decision makers with the race commissaires being the executors of the decision process.   This delicious and prescient side-step enabled Hein to successfully challenge  Cookson, stating that the CIRC was misleading in its references to Hein being engaged in deception over the Lance story and of course in another meeting Cookson kept secret from us, he agreed to handing Hein  many tens of thousands of pounds of of the UCI's membership's money to Hein by way of compensation.  Of course Hein being Hein he just could not go along with keeping Cookson's embarrassment silent but proclaimed it to the World with a press announcement.  (Many thanks Hein - you just confirmed all we knew - you and Cookson are both sh1ts cut from the same cloth.)   So let's have a look at the decision on the timing of Lizzies ban. Flip that burger and see the fall out if the ban had been immediate. 

    Getting the costs on bringing the Tour of France start to GB in 2014 is quite difficult.  Have a look at this
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tour_de_france_costs
    Here also at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28424843
    "This year, inside the M25 TfL alone paid £6m for the finish of Stage Three. "
    So we can easily imagine a figure of between say £20 million and £60 million for the whole extravaganza.  From what I learnt the Grand Depart went seriously over-budget with a good number of agencies very free with their spending of money from the public purse.  I would suggest that the longer Women's Tour , but taking place in less prominent localities, cost a smaller but still substantial figure.  No sponsor for 2017 and it would be either more public money or cancel the show.  Now that is a hard decision.

    So with no Lizzie there is no story about the "growth of women's cycling and how UKSport and BC are driving to new plains of achievement" as pedaled so many times during the race.  Instead we get - "current GB World champion gets 2 year ban from competition - for missing three, yes can you believe it, three violations despite being given a personal arse wiper and nappy changer".  "Biggest race on the calendar now a non-event as the biggest star goes missing".    A tearful Lizzie bleats "its all their fault - they did not employ two arse wipers, so when one went and got a better job there was still somebody else around to wipe my back-side".  (Which is what she did say but the farcical effect was somewhat lost with all the build up to Rio.)  I put it to you that, just as the commercial future of Men's cycling hung in the balance in 1999 post Festina, so the fall out of Lizzie having her ban made public and not riding the GB Women's Tour would have been catastrophic for the women's scene.  (Somebody else can correct me but aren't the current sponsors on long term notice that this was their last year and the organisation was trawling around for replacements.  Part of that deal will be wining and dining potentials at this year's race.  Imagine the conversation at the hospitality suite.  The deals would be killed. )  The stakes for Lizzie's ban were higher for the agencies around and were more important to those agencies, than Lizzie's personal circumstance.

    And then to the rider herself.  I think most human beings knowing that a decision on a possible career threatening 2 year ban, even with the prospect of a later challenge at CAS, was pending, might put them off their conrflakes each morning whilst waiting.  But hold on a minute, iron-woman Lizzie (yes the same Lizzie Wizzie who's extra sensitive feelings need to be put foremost in keeping this all out of the public domain) manages to ignore all this stuff and not only ride and win the biggest race outside the Olympics but also promote the forward sales of her book due out straight after the Olympics.  Hold on a minute - isn't there something I am waiting to hear about that could influence the final chapter - How I won gold in Rio ?  Just remind me what am I waiting to find out about ? 

    Well - knock me down with a feather - who'd have thunk it  - she just rode and won ! We can't know, but the circumstantial evidence that the timing was arranged and the nature and way around the decision was shared with Lizzie prior to the GB Tour looks one that is way more likely than unlikely and that, my friends really stinks and may well be the real reason the tale found its way to Matt Lawton at the Mail.  Because sure as hell BC, UKSport and UKAD and Lizzie herself did not want nasty Mr Lawton getting that story but it is complete fact - somebody told him; an uncomfortable fact that even the most ardent BC/Sky/Lizzie fan cannot deny.  And that somebody just had to be somebody who did not like what he saw was going on.

    And of course, if you accept that degree of connivance  - the construct of a "silent ban" exists for this incident, then one can accept that it may not be unique - it might have happened before.  It then explains why having two strikes did not generate in Lizzie the change of attitude to whereabouts that lots of fellow athletes have gone public with sharing.   Missing one is serious - you don't miss two.  Missing two is a life changer.  Not for Lizzie, two down - who cares - her priority is booking bands and wiping her twitter account after the event.  Just who else has gone to CAS and been let off - is Lizzie really the first ?  Of course we don't know because the system as designed does not have to tell us.  Believing we knew the first time it occurred, is like thinking Femke is the only ever pro cyclist to have ever used a motor in her bike.   You can believe it if you want to, but it takes some doing. 

    There is nothing out there to tell us Vos was on a silent ban.  However, construct a scenario where the Dutch Fed got themselves into an identical situation to that BC/UKSport/UKAD have just done with the Lizzie affair and came up with the same "master-plan" - just tell them your are ill and preparing for some race or another (exactly like the lie Lizzie told us).  It would not take an unimaginable leap of faith to adopt a position where Lizzie, BC and UKAD all knew that Vos had, in the recent past, been on such a silent ban.  Now that road ahead - spinning the deception does not look twisting and pot holed, it looks like a positive four-lane highway.   Imagine if it gets too hot - you just have to turn the finger and point.  Just how hard are UKAD going to fight any decision at CAS ?  That now becomes not only a walk-over but completely sold out before it was ever even contemplated.  "Yes my lud our testers screwed up big style - please let the poor innocent little waif off". 

    So you can make your choice, even on the evidence of the recent weeks, I would suggest the arguments for innocence on behalf of the rider and no connivance by the agencies, is too thin to be sustainable by any rational observer.    Throw in distant history of the sport and peripheral events such as Lizzie accusing the twitter army of bullying her on the same day her fiance uses that same media to go public to bully FPF and the evidence is more damning.  Follow the pro career of previous boyfriend Adam Blythe and I want to meet the person who will commit that Blythe would not have been exposed to managers, support staff and other riders who would have versed him in the dark arts; then the "missed tests" have a very much blacker potential.  We are back at trying to somehow break the link Sky fans use straws, as that is all they have available, to break- Froome is married to Cound.  Cound's mum is a champion bodybuilder with a ripped body that could only possibly have been generated in the manner all champion body builders have done over the last few decades - with chemical assistance.  That Froome's mother in law may have used steroids to sculpt her body in no way is evidence that Froome may have used PEDs to win the Tour, but explaining away the moral code of your life partner and justifying that in a sport riddled with dopers you are the rarest of individuals, a character with morals and the ability to beat without using those who do use PEDs to improve their performance, somehow becomes a lot, lot, lot harder. 


    Are there silent bans in our sport ? I was criticised for making the suggestion.

    Gore Vidal said the best four words in the English language are "I told you so".

    A few weeks ago there was a super post over at the clinic.  The poster wrote that he thought the whole BC/Sky thing was the World's most elaborate trolling experiment, just trying to see how far a story so similar to that of US Postal and Lance could be shoved down people's throats so quickly after the original was exposed.  My favourite moment of this whole episode was when Lizzie stated she was one of the most tested athletes in sport, the implication being that she just had to be clean.  I hope Lance read that. 
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  • « Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 14:33 by riding too slowly »

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #96 on: August 27, 2016, 13:27 »
    This is really difficult, and there is no evidence that she has doped .................

    Back to this case any success on Sunday is now incredibly tainted, not by guilt but by the stain of the situation that is discussed in detail above.  Nowhere near the same level as Vino in London, which was gut wrenching, but if you loved the sport despite your innocence should you ride and further inflame the debate, or withdraw and set more hares running??  I really don't know and wish I could have just cheered her on without this complex backstory

    I found it hilarious that Vino won in London - just the absolute example of why the sport is where it is. ( Didn't Cookson put the medal round his neck - why doesn't he have that as his headline picture on his twitter account - way more fun than the picture he currently has there ? )

    I am not too sure how many fans of the sport would have been able to miss the irony of that win, but somebody did.


    "I just find it upsetting because the sport that I love, cycling, is clean now. My sport now is not that sport anymore."   Lizzie Armitstead Jan 16th 2013

    Yes Lizzie your sport is clean. Vino won the day before you got silver and  Zabelinskia towed you and Vos to the finish in the Mal keeping the break away from the bunch.  Just imagine without that doper's efforts it might have been Bronzini with gold and you with nothing.  So  nothing odd to see there.  I hope you were alongside Emma at the TT podium cheering the three medal winners in Rio - let the best rider win !  Zabelinskia was back from her 18 month ban and picking up a silver to go with Bronze from London 4 years before. 

    Servais - if Vino's win sticks in your throat 4 years later so you can post about it, can you imagine being a clean athlete and flogging yourself stupid and that Vino win somehow passing you by so you come out with crap like Lizzie did in January 2013 - "my sport is clean now".   Sorry but I disagree with you Sevais - I don't find it difficult at all.  The dreadful cynic in me tells me all I need to look out for.  Some riders are trying to take the p1ss and treat me like a fool and I don't like it.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #97 on: August 27, 2016, 16:51 »
    Hi Kiwi,  I have to say I share with you an induced reclusiveness.  Way too many of my old cycling acquaintances have swallowed the Sky thing when they were critical of Pantani.  But seeing as  how I spent time writing the replies above  I thought I would "treat" myself with a watch of the live stream of GP Plouay to see how the girls rode.

    Get stuffed - more taking the p1ss. 

    I only watched the last half lap of the Olympic RR and somebody told me that Vos had spent a key section of the race riding like an idiot.  Today that was not "riding like an idiot", that was a deliberate plan to race and not win.  So she has the biggest guilty conscience and is now committed to riding and to enlivening the race but not allowing herself to get in a winning position.  What the hell went on with her ban ?  Repeated positives - allowed back to the sport but with some sort of weird conditions - perhaps even self-imposed ?  I have no idea what I was watching but it was not a cycle race she was engaged in.  Nobody could ride as tactically well as she did in 2006 to 2012 and then ride as ridiculously as she did today.  Even at the finish she could not have selected a more unlikely wheel to follow and then delayed so long a time to allow herself to be blocked in.  Very amusing.  Even gave us thumping the handlebars in faux frustration as something for her "fans" to cling onto.  Err frustrated - I think not Marianne - that little show went exactly to plan. 

    Armitstead.  I smelt a rat as soon as she hit the front to come through the finish area, for the crowds with 2 laps to go. Why do that, if you are racing or even supporting a team-mate to a win you have no place on the front at that time.  Then straight away, when on the front, she not only had a drink but started mucking about getting a bar out of her back pocket and opening it - all whilst on the front.  This was no dedicated team mate committed to another team-mate winning, this was somebody going through the motions of taking part because she had to but knowing she could not win.  When she went out the back for the final time she looked like she was on a club-run and was keeping out of the way of the young boys going for a sign.  Not out of breath, not on the rivet, just somebody who could not be bothered to race.   Well enjoy your share of the public funding to BC because I resent it being wasted on a rider like you.

    I have no idea what else I was seeing but I will single out Longo Borghini for a special mention for failure to know how to ride tactically.  She did indeed seem to want to win, which, given the company was a big plus, but had little idea on how to go about it.  Time and again she put herself in the right place at the right moment but then did the wrong thing.  As a break is forming you don't ride second wheel, let the lead rider pull off, stay on the front and ease up, then decide to look around you to see what is happening, tap along for a while and then jump through making sure you drop third wheel, then just as you have done that ease, pull over and look for third wheel to come through.  Time and again it was gob smackingly bad.

    Unless I missed it I did not see a single of the current female pro's offer any censure of the return of Zabelinskia, the cutting short of her ban to just 18 months or her silver at Rio.   Along with the silence on all the Vos not riding stuff for the last two years and that weird 2014 World Road race finish and somebody tell me if I am wrong but wasn't Armstrong not in the whereabouts pool on the run up to Rio before her gold ? Which again along with the alarming win for such a rider - straight of the grandpa Horner book of how to do it - should have raised some serious questions from her fellow pros.   All of which tells me the women's peloton is a bit like the men's scene in the late 80's - few are making any money, and the scene is shaky and corrupt, so either get lost or keep quiet and pray it gets lucrative before you have to quit.  Exactly the conditions that led to the "fukc it" attitude "dope as much as you can, because otherwise you are leaving this sport with nothing" that ran through men's cycling in the 90s and generated the mess that facilitated Lance. 

    I did not enjoy that race today.  I am sorry I wasted time watching it. 
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  • « Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 17:23 by riding too slowly »

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #98 on: September 05, 2016, 20:39 »
    Chrono Des Nations - Glad to see that erstwhile prime female doper Hanna Solovey, repeatedly thrown under the bus (kicked out from the female Team Astana  for "unprofessional conduct" (!! what does that mean given the context - the mind boggles)) has recovered from some weird stuff at the World Champs (de-selected at the last minute ?)and managed to get 2nd today.  Only beaten by Russian Tatiana Antonshina. 

    I really am concerned that the strange stuff going on and the factual lack of blood passport and lack of out of competition testing for so many of the top riders means it is getting to be like the wild west on the women's scene - either (i) leave, (ii) don't compete to win  or (iii)  dope.

    Does anyone know if they do testing of the women or espoirs at the Chrono ? (or even the Junior men or women for that matter ?)

    I noticed Hanna Solovey getting a 9th in the Holland Ladies Tour and I was looking to see what I had said in the past about her.

    Oh dear - 2nd last year, beaten by Tatiana Antonshina. 

    1 year later 31/5/2016 and courtesy of Feargal over at the clinic I noticed  in
    http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/CleanSport/17/63/88/20160829ProvisionalSuspensionEN_English.PDF

    Anotonshina tests positive and gets banned.

    Nothing mild mark you - Growth Hormone  - kicking the backside out of it prior to Rio?   Anyone know at what event the sample was collected ?

    Lots of info here on the first up in my list of google responses to the adverse code. 
    http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/

    Lots of stuff - I really need a prize winning body builder to explain how it all works.  Where is Cound's mum on twitter when you need her ?  Shall I DM Michelle on Froome's account ?
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #99 on: September 05, 2016, 20:49 »
    Really depressing - searched a little more and found all sorts of nausea inducing "gems".

    Buying it   http://www.uk-peptides.com/ghrp-2-5mg

    Various forums discussing how long it stays in the system and can be detected - the answer - nowhere near long enough to make any testing likely to get it.

    Then I gave up - one father talking about injecting his son and his son now bulking up nicely and the fat dropping off him. 

    I have had enough. 

    Jeepers this is Frankenstien II
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #100 on: September 13, 2016, 10:15 »
    ...

    The facts are that Lizzie has not tested positive but has committed three whereabouts violations. 
    She was banned from competing as a consequence.
    We know she appealed the conditions relating to at least two of the violations and the CAS found in her favour in one of them, (which was all they needed to do to get her off the hook)....
    Sir BW is always worth a read but I was astonished to read this in this weekend's Guardian magazine...

    But when I ask if it would have been better for all concerned had the British rider Lizzie Armitstead not been allowed to compete, after missing three drug tests in a row, he looks uneasy. “Umm, I don’t know. I just think that rules are rules, and they’re there for a reason.” Is it easy to miss three tests in a row by mistake? “No.” His bluntness takes me by surprise. Not even slightly? “No,” he repeats, maintaining a level stare.

    Is it practically impossible? “Well, it’s bloody hard because what happens is you miss one test, they write you a letter, they ask you to explain what happened and you’ve got two weeks to put a case forward. If you ignore that and then you get another one, you end up having crisis meetings. You get a lot of support from UK Sport. They’re brilliant, actually. They’re on the phone daily. They send you emails, reminders, they’ll put plans in place for you in terms of someone helping you with the whereabouts, so you don’t end up… well, it’s very difficult, then, to go from two to three. And to get three within eight or nine months, there’s no excuse. When you’re a professional athlete and you’re a world champion, there’s no excuse, because it’s your career. You’re setting the standard for everybody else, and to say, ‘Cycling wasn’t my priority at that time’ [as Armitstead did] is ludicrous, because you nearly lost your career over it. That’s just ridiculous. So I can’t fathom how that happened.”
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #101 on: November 29, 2016, 21:26 »
    OK so upthread I was critical of Vos and floating a possibility of a silent ban.  And then she came back and I just felt I was watching a stage managed loss too many times.  Too much "conspiracy theory"?  Well if it is good enough for the IAAF who is to say it is not good enough for the UCI or Dutch Fed.  In the Seppelt story on the IAAF, the Russian girl is not given a ban, too much fuss, but allowed to compete in the Marathon at the Olympics but just as long as she knows she can't win.  Story out as fact now;  bribes, backhanders the lot.   

    I just think cycling could trump even that with one or two using motors as well and a tester or two being paid to turn a blind eye.  If you think Pat and Hein wanted to avoid Lance testing positive in 1999 as it would damage the Tour think "Lizzie" lately or "Vos" before that.  It would have wiped out women's cycling. 

    I really have no idea what I have been watching these last few years.  Remember, as of right now, the only competitive rider found to have used a motor is an evil U23 moto-cross girl.   

    As if................. !   
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #102 on: April 11, 2017, 10:06 »
    Up thread August 2016 - my suggestion for the source of the leak re Lizzie Deignan nee Armitstead being someone at UKAD was wrong.  Nobody at UKAD and not a fellow female cyclist.
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  • Vimto

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #103 on: April 14, 2017, 00:30 »
    Who was it then?  It seems like your itching to tell us.  Was it a particular male GB cyclist...?   
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #104 on: May 01, 2017, 21:14 »
    .............. I don't find it difficult at all.  The dreadful cynic in me tells me all I need to look out for.  Some riders are trying to take the p1ss and treat me like a fool and I don't like it.

    As to the mole, I am in no rush, it will come out.  Re my comment above, even though I trusted to my own deep cynicism, I was wrong, I was not nearly cynical enough.  I have found a new level.

    I am now absolutely positive I have absolutely no idea what I have been watching these last few years. 
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    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #106 on: July 08, 2017, 15:01 »
    (Wow these boards are dying)  Just popped in to see if anyone could explain why Lizzie was riding the giro Rosa like she is - somebody stolen her battery charger ?  It is all looking a little wonky.  I wondered if rather than a conspiracy theory there was a rational explanation.  I did drop into the women's section first but I see only a single post about the women's giro and few page views, so did not bother to post there.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #107 on: July 20, 2017, 23:21 »
    OK so I might be talking to myself but might as well put record my thoughts for posterity.  So Lizzie had her nice silent ban from the Giro last year and was also absent from the GB champs and we were fed BS with icing on top, about it. She left the Giro early to prepare properly for Rio.  Tweets not taken down like the ones the day before her missed test to the wedding planners about the bands she was trying to book, to the winner of the GB champs - wish I was there but isn't preparation for the Olympics such a bind - today is on my planner as a rest day ! 

    And another big lie - I cannot ride La Course 2016 because I am preparing for the Olympics.  No Darling you cannot ride La Course because you are currently suspended due to a doping violation that somehow you seem to know you will be let off.

    In the past we have been fed the stories which don't stack up about Vos' absence.  (These are a bit like Froome's Badzilla, with 10 second reading and 2 second thought, they stand up but research a few facts about what has been claimed and the time period to illness does not stand up and whilst no absolute proof can be achieved of what the truth is, we can be certain that what we have been told, is not it.

    So today for La Course we are told recent Giro winner Anna van der Breggan was missing because she needed a rest and could not stay at top form.  She had peaked.  What utter BS.  This is a 63 km one day race with about 60 times the publicity of the Giro on it.  What pro woman cyclist would not want to perform there ?
    Vos we can currently cut some slack to because she is recovering from her broken collarbone and anything may have delayed quality training, so I am not saying she dived deliberately this time. 
    Megan Gaurnier was up for it and given Lizzie's ride, Megan was obviously the favoured rider for today.  That whole USA women's cycling scene still seems infected with the mental attitude current USA Olympic selector Dede Barry had when she was riding - Michael did you put the epo back in the fridge ?  Yes Dede it is behind the yoghurts.  But something seems to have gone wrong with Gaurnier's preparation - the timing or whatever. 

    I just get the feeling that a few at the top are taking the p1ss big style and the authorities are sh1t scared of busting a star because they know the fragile structure would collapse.  So Anna v d B may have gone over the top at the Giro but she is out of the system for a while.  All we are getting and those peskie Ruskies since evil moto-girl Femke. 

    I just could not help think that listening to Rochele on the ITV commentary was like listening to Phil Ligget on steroids.  If he was a major factor in why Lance was not subject to scrutiny for so long then Rochele would keep it buried for ever on the women's side. 

    I think women's cycling is headed for a big bust and the outcome is not going to be pretty.
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  • « Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 23:45 by riding too slowly »

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #108 on: September 12, 2017, 20:01 »
    Lukas has tidied this up a little bit and we now have our separate Peter Janssen thread.  I think it is worth recording here for any newbies that may in years to come look at this thread to refer them there.  Peter Janssen has stated that he supplied Van Moorsel with EPO.  Van Moorsel has the simple version of the book of excuses and went for route 1 - "no I never".

    Undoubtedly she did.  Monique Knol had been saying that Van Moorsel doped for some years but Van Moorsel just told everyone that Knol was a sor loser who wasn't really any good.  Kind of class that. Knol, at the relase of the information from Janssen said - Van Moorsel, I never thought the truth would come out but great now everyone knows she sucks and is a liar.

    However, a lot of the english speaking fans who have only come to cycling in the last 10 to 12 years will not know just how big a fall this is.  Van Moorsel is probably the 2nd ranked female cyclist in terms of fame after Jeannie Longo.  In terms of money extracted from the sport she is probably is the number one ranked female rider, with possibly Lizzie Deignan the only person around likely to eclipse her, if Lizzie  doesn't have another silent ban or positive.   Van Moorsel was way more popular than Longo and has six Olympic medals in the pot, four of them gold. 

    This popularity is probably why so few of her detractors gained traction with their accounts of her doping and probably why Knol describes the testers as knowing they needed to give her a miss but test the 2nd and 3rd placed riders - van moorsel was protected.  Over in the Janssen thread I posted up a link to a great account of someone who knew the doctor was a doping doctor and knew he doped riders and saw her in the street outside but still gave her a pass.  The disconnect is awesome and whilst it does not tell us why, it is a great example of how doping in women's sports gets a pass. 

    Undoubtedly those following contemporary Dutch cycling could suggest Vos is the most well known Dutch female cyclist.  For Vos, the unexplaned absences and weird performances, frankly some of which defy any form of logic to describe them, all leave an association with the filth of the men's peloton that prevents her becoming more valued, perhaps in a way that teh noveau Brit fans will defend to the death any suggestion that Hoy, Wiggins or say Hayles or Boardman, doped to the death but because of the pall of smoke, particularly from Wiggins, do not warm to Froome as his results suggest they should. 

    So yes, we are never going to see Longo exposed, too many in the French cycling establishment were engaged in the cover up and the silent bans, Van Moorsel is probably the next highest ranking star who could have been exposed. 

    This was a major event.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #109 on: September 13, 2017, 09:04 »
    Lukas has tidied this up a little bit and we now have our separate Peter Janssen thread.
    And for good measure, here's a link to said thread.
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    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #110 on: November 14, 2017, 20:40 »
    Well, goodness graious me, I thought the literary minded interweb type people were tech savy and could keep up with stuff.  I am not sure to what to ascribe this.  Two posts up and on the Peter Janssen  thread I identified that van Morsel's bust was as big as it was ever going to get for the women.  One would think that a web site with a serious focus on women's cycling would take notice of that story and adjust their output in line with the game changing status of van Morsel. 

    Have a look at this.
    A generation of dominance: how the Dutch women got to be so strong

    by Anne-Marije Rook & Jeanine Laudy

    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/11/dutch-domination-in-womens-cycling-a-generation-of-champions/

    It is breathtaking in its stupidity. They don't even raise one smidgen of concern about the title of the article and the likely source of the cause.   

    So it is like we are back at the hypotheses of the first post in this thread.   Years of scandals and unbelievable tales and still it is the same.  Women's cycling gets a free pass, not becasue it is clean but because idiots, "fans with typewriters" would be way too kind, do the reporting.  That just alows the bastards taking the dope to have even more confidence they can get away with anything.  Even if they get busted, Ellas cycling tips will have forgotten once they have been round the goldfish bowl twice.

    If I did twitter I would not know which picture to have. The selfie of Cookson with Eddy and Gilbert at the conference for Juniors telling them how to progress their careers - or the one of van Morsel and Vos getting close, post van Morsel's bust.  Both are pure gold and tell you everything you need to know about professional cycling.  L'Appartient catching anyone with a motor - don't make me laugh.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #111 on: March 25, 2018, 23:48 »
    So woopie doo Marta Bastinelli won the GW today.  Lots of cooing by the cycling reporters who have "found" women's cycling.  But over on cyclingnews, one particular quote from our galant winner stuck right in my throat.  Bastinelli would have been 15 when Starhuskia was kicking the backside out of it, juicing to the max and flogging the stuff. 

    One of Starhuskia's pet tricks was to get her young son to come on the podium with her - so cute - so photogenic - so lovely.  Great deflection, how could a darling, caring, mother dope like there was no tomorrow ?  Those totally unbelievable performances just had to have been powered by love.  Often in the story there was a nice little quote with reference to being a mother and doing it for her child - just like the kind we were given today. 

    At least with the men these days there is a sort of passing reference in any report of a win to past doping bans.  I did not spot one mention anywhere that Bastinelli served out a two year ban.  Remember, she was given a year by her home Fed and then thought the bunch of meanies were rotten, so she took them to CAS to get it reduced to something sensible like they used to dole out to Starhuskia, a nice 6 months to cover the winter season - fair is fair after all.  But CAS did not have on duty that day a nice friendly bunch like dearest darling Lizzie encountered.  No, them b'stards increased Bastinelli's ban to two years !

    Not a mention anywhere ! 

    And since Vos' "extended break"  with rib/hamstring/anything else that sounded vaguely more believable than Froome's badzilla, (remember that,)  what has happened to Vos ?   Ever since she came back she has been riding like Andy Schleck after Frank's positive.

    As the years roll on the original poster's premise has more and more circumstantial evidence to support it.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #112 on: March 26, 2018, 00:46 »
    So woopie doo . . .

    Sometimes, senor Demasiado Despacio, you annoy me no end. And sometimes, Mr. Slowly, I am in awe at your ability to remind us of the baser things. Well done, sir. I am reminded, and you have attaboy points - so be careful with those "aw sh*tes" my friend.
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #113 on: March 26, 2018, 01:08 »
    Upstream in 2016 in the Lizzie part of the thread I took a shot at the numpties who thought it was an unassailable human right that anyone who was connected with BC/Sky must have any of their misdeameanors hidden from sight until the final final appeal of the appeal has been heard. 

    Lizzie had missed three tests and lied to everyone about why she was not riding, but was booking bands and doing press for her upcoming book.  Wasn't it wrong that some nasty whistleblower told the truth of what was going on !  Shudn't be allowed !

    I contrasted it with the first serious thing to hand which was a British Army officer accused of raping a Canadian female army officer and his name was all across the world, before the trial.
    So that was 2016, I just searched to see what happened.  In Jan 2018 it came to court and the charge was dismissed.
    http://www.thewhig.com/2018/02/08/british-officer-acquitted-of-sex-assault

    As I said; western democracies do well if justice is not only executed but seen to be executed.

    This crap secrecy stuff at CAS is exactly the pile of sh1t that the likes of Cookson, Hein, Papa and Liame Dick and Samaranch revel in.  Keep it all behind closed doors where we can influence it all.  Then we can weild influence and favour and extract kickbacks and bribes.  No decent person would construct a system like that.

    I hold by what I said.  I very much doubt that Lizzie was the first high profile Brit to take her three strikes to CAS for overturn.  There just weren't any whistleblowers around for the others.

    Want a scary read - read the link.  Some of that stuff will take a long time to get out of my head.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #114 on: March 26, 2018, 01:26 »
    Sometimes, senor Demasiado Despacio, you annoy me no end. And sometimes, Mr. Slowly, I am in awe at your ability to remind us of the baser things. Well done, sir. I am reminded, and you have attaboy points - so be careful with those "aw sh*tes" my friend.

    I come here rarely.  I read over at Cyclingnews and if moved, post here.  I have followed the sport since the 60's.  The sport is awesome, but why is it run by a bunch of complete lame-brains who treat the fans like dumb cattle ? I hate having to post some of the stuff I post but I don't see it elsewhere and think it needs recording at that point in time.

    Looking back up a couple of threads that have been running for nearly 6 years, the comments make a terrific social narrative and are a credit to many of the contributors.
     
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #115 on: March 26, 2018, 13:50 »
    Not a mention anywhere ! 

    This is true, the amnesia has been surprising with Bastianelli, perhaps because she rode somewhat under the radar and took a few seasons to creep back towards her pre-suspension level.

    I was out of the sport at the time when she rose to prominence - it still amazes me that she's only thirty - and I was only vaguely aware of the case, which was probably one of the last in cycling where different authorities wrestled over jurisdiction.

    But there was this slight sense of unease when I did see her feature prominently. It was quite recently that I finally got around to checking out the story: a positive test for fenfluramine, a stimulant that diminishes appetite. Nothing super tweaky but hardly spotlessly clean either. She blamed her pharmacist at the time but it was, and remains, a banned substance for which the athlete is responsible.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #116 on: April 04, 2018, 10:16 »
    How absolutely cr!p is this ? 

    http://www.corriere.it/sport/running-nuoto-bici/notizie/morta-l-ex-ciclista-ilaria-rinaldi-accertamenti-procura-firenze-29ff228e-3700-11e8-b6e2-a808a444e7a2.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

    The ex-cyclist Ilaria Rinaldi died The hypotshesis: cut short by an overdose
    She was an Italian cyclocross Under 23 champion in 2007 and was found dead in her Gambassi Terme home. She was 33 years old. At home, they found a syringe and a tourniquet

    She told of having approacshed the bike at the age of ten only to break the heart of a boy much older than she who competed in the races in her area. The goal failed, but Ilaria Rinaldi, a Florentine, born in 1985, fell madly in love with cycling. An absolute love, passed through many young victories, a tricolor title in the cross, the jest of professionalism, doping. And tragically ended the morning of Easter Monday: like Marco Pantani, Ilaria Rinaldi died alone, in his apartment in Gambassi Terme just outside Florence. Her father Domenico found it, waiting for him for a trip to the countryside and to whose phone calls his daughter did not answer.

    Ilaria was sprawled on the floor, dead for hours. The circumstances of death and the presence of used syringes and a tourniquet, compatible with the use of drugs, prompted the Florentine public prosecutor Paolo Barlucchi to ask for autopsy and toxicological tests on the cadaver, which will be performed in the next few days. Careggi hospital. No hypothesis, from illness to suicide by overdose to a link with doping, is excluded by the investigators. At the age of just thirty-three Rinaldi was still an active agonist both on the road and in mountain biking. Only in the last month of March she had run (and won) five races, the last few days before his death, in Gavorrano, near Grosseto.

    Italian cross champion in 2005, several times in the national under 23, Ilaria Rinaldi, petite and combative, at 20 years seemed to have started a future in professionalism. But the dream lasted very little: in 2007, in a check carried out after a minor run in Germany, it was found with testosterone values completely out of standard. She hired many consultants to be defended, she justified himself by bringing up a disease but did not convince tshe sports judges. After two years' disqualification, Rinaldi resisted a couple of seasons in professionalism ("What future can there be by earning 400 euros a month to make a Gypsy life?" She told in an interview to a website) before doing the leap into the parallel and controversial universe of the great fund. Long distance cycling marathons, at the time crowded with unemployed former professionals, where they made ends meet with expense reimbursements, small engagements and day prizes.


    In three years Ilaria won most of the Italian races, alternating hard training with a part time job in a graphic company. Even in the amateur sector, however, the troubles did not miss her. The most embarrassing was a three-month federal disqualification for competing (and winning) by assuming a false identity, that of a training partner's wife, then disqualified for doping, and making up for a master world championship in Austria. The judges were lenient, stopping only for three months: it was badly recommended.
    In recent years Ilaria, also out of the foundational world, frequented the mountain bike, competing in a frenetic way in Tuscany and winning all the races in which it participated. A few months ago she had a club with Stefano Del Carlo's Team Stefan, a cyclist who has just received a two-year ban on doping and was involved in the recent investigation by the Lucca Public Prosecutor on the death of the very young Linas Rumsas, the other case of "white death" recently upset the Tuscan cycling. Until last Christmas Rinaldi lived with the former professional Ivan Fanelli, with whom she ran a bike shop in Pontedera. Who knew her talks about a painful separation from her partner and from work, of a sentimental disappointment that has made the last three months of life extremely tough, in which Ilaria has erased from Facebook, isolated from the world, looking for the only way to go by bicycle from despair. An escape that unfortunately has not succeeded.
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  • « Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 11:22 by riding too slowly »

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #117 on: April 04, 2018, 11:14 »
    Ilaria Rinald   So I have got that as young girl, she is good on a bike.  Somewhere she bumps into dodgy characters who tell her, don't worry they are all doing it. Should have walked away but she didn't.  Then she gets caught out at one of the random tests that the system conducts trying to pretend it is "anti-doping".  Does all the same stuff Froome and Brad have been doing - I was poorly, it was for my sore feet/bad chest, sprained wrist ...  but does not get let off becasue she is nobody famous with a top gun legal team.  Does her time.  Comes back but sees that the scene does not pay  - just 400 Euro a month - what the hell this is not fair - what is going on here.  And ends up knocking around with the crowd that see Linas Rumsas also die in their midst.  Live the dream................

    Well, I hope those fawning, spinelss journalists that keep on facilitating the lie, read this and reflect. I hope those fawning, spineless administrators that can't sort out a honest protocol for testing and announcement of AAFs, read this and reflect. 

    It does not take much of a leap, to see some young girl starts doing exactly what she sees some of the stars of the sport doing.  Just refelct how cr!p, how completely cr*p was it, that we have first hand testimony that Van Morsel's Doctor doped her and, first hand testimony from a rider that the testers would not test Van Morsel at races, the Dutch Fed had ensured she was to be excluded from such protocols.  Instead of catching the real villains of the piece they catch flotsam like Rinaldi.  Stuff silent bans for Longo.  Stuff BC spending public money hiring in a top legal gun for Lizzie Armistead to get her off what should have been a clear ban.  If the idiot could not be arsed to challenge the protocol when she legally could, then she deserved what was coming. And stuff her wiping her twitter account and coming up with some BS story about a poorly relative when she was booking bands for her post Rio wedding party.  And stuff all her lies about not racing but training for Rio.  And stuff her team lying and backing up the lies to make the lie more convincing. Stuff silent bans for Armistead.  Armitstead, Wiggins, Froome Sir Dave Brailsford, Simon Cope - who could not be bothered to organise a camp for the British Women but could courier a package across borders and fiddle his travel expenses at the same time, Doctor Freeman, Shane Sutton and the lot of them.  A whole gaggle coming up with the same tale of sudden amnesia.  Well stuff the lot of them - they all know that knight of the realm - Sir Bradley Wiggins is sunk if any of them tell so we are treated to their pantomime performance.

    And no - there is nothing in the public domain to indicate Marianne Vos ever doped.  There is nothing in the public domian to indicate that Marianne Vos ever had a silent ban.  But hell, that is one heck of a long time to be off with a broken rib and then what was it, a hamstring and since then, the whole racehorse to donkey reverse transformation that we saw with Andy Schleck when brother Frank got busted. And no, there is no evidence to indicate that the Dutch Federation is staffed by people with any more spine than Cookson and the crew of ex pros he recruited that run/ran British Cycling.

    And I might not be so upset about her death and the hypocrisy that brought her to that point but during her cycling career the same numpties that faciliate it, don't give her a living wage.  As a female she did not count.  Over at the clinic I can see them arguing that "workers rights", those of someone in employment - a failure of an employer to follow process - will trump the fact that Froome was juiced and his con exposed and stealing from his fellow workers.  Yes I am sure that is what his legal guns will use and they will get him off.  OK so how does that work for female cyclists?  They don't get a wage ergo they just don't count.  Oh but when it comes to paying the price, paying the ultimate price, then it is the same.  What does that produce ?  The same lifeless body as Pantani ?

    Ilaria Rinaldi - I will shed a tear for you.  You doped - that was wrong.  You took other wrong decisions. 

    How are UKAD getting on with their Linda McCartney investigation?  They have first hand testimony from multiple witnesses that doping was rife there.  Ex team member Jonny Clay  - that was a magnificent transformation at the end of your career.   And riding with Brad to Olympic glory in the tp - wow what a star.  I am glad BC re-organised last week and in the new structure there was no place for a guy who only 10 months before had been appointed to the elite 4 man sub groub of the board of directors that was put in place to oversee BC move out of crisis.  Clay - long term team-mate of Sutton.  Rode with Brad.  Team mate of Cope.

    Ilaria Rinaldi - I will shed a tear for you.  You doped - that was wrong. You were found on a floor limp and lifeless.  Jonny Clay got to walk away into retirement with a 6 figure payout of public money. 
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5565823/MPs-question-cycling-chiefs-Jonny-Clay-huge-pay-off.html

    Sutton to Parliament - have you ever encountered any PEDs in your long career in cycling ?   No Never.   

    Who the hell employed Sutton and the gang - yes Cookson - I am looking at you.  Were those tarnished medals worth any of this ?  What should you have spent your time doing when you were boss at the UCI ?  You did tell us that within 12 months of coming to office you would have a miniumum wage in place for the girls.  You didn't do that.  You did do a lot of selfies.

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  • « Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 10:23 by riding too slowly »

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #118 on: July 28, 2018, 20:13 »
    OK time for me to spend some time talking to myself about the dark thoughts I never used to have.

    As one of the key suspects in the Stade 4 documentary - Roglic rode himself onto and then off the podium at the Tour this week, and as Team Wiggle closed up shop, I cast my mind to what could be going on at the women's circuit. 

    That win in the ITT by Van Vleuten certainly raises eyebrows.  2 min 28 back to second place in 46 mins !  And then look at the gaps that follow, all tiny.  I set an arbitary figure of 30 between places and searched for gaps beyond that.  I had to get back to the final 4 riders out of 14 before I saw a gap of 30 seconds.  These gaps appeared in riders who lost 22 minutes to the winner, ie were doing about 66 metres for every 100 that Van Vleuten did.  Elite cycling is not a normal distribution. 

    So with e-bikes everywhere now, what are the deterents for the women's peloton?  The much vaunted X-ray trailer is on a three week road trip around France testing 7 bikes every day.  Oblivious to factual documentaries with video evidence that the iPad no more than a useless PR gimmick, the UCI is still employing people to wave iPads around.  Lapartient has told us it would be a disaster for cycling if a top rider was caught with a motor in his bike so I think we can assume that those 7 bikes were not chosen at random, but in a sort of  "Barfield-Lite" telegraphing of which bikes would be tested was being sent to DS in advance. 

    What motor testing was at the Giro for the women ?  If it was iPads then ok - lip service.  If it was nothing then it is like the wild west - lawless.  That is where we were 20 years ago with the Festina tour. Soigneurs were driving vans full of EPO around becasue riders wanted to max out on it, because there was no test.  Why stop when the race organisers and UCI were not looking for EPO and the only threat was if some random French Police guy stopped you as you crossed a border.  Next to zero chance of that !  So they all doped.

    Now I am not suggesting the women's peloton are all on e-bikes, the incentive for the majority is negligable - they are not going to win anything and no-one is paying anything much and that is one hell of a step to take to move up from 112th position to 43rd. All those logistics of getting the motor into the bike and making sure the bike is available at the right time and place.  This is not a one person operation or something to ask the (doctor-EPO)mechanic-motor to do, as he is doing it all the time and has a briefcase full of motors you can clip onto your bike for the day needed.  No it obviously does not work like that. 

    But a single rider 2 28 up when virtually the whole of the rest of the field are at gaps of seconds is not a natural spread.

    OK so let's park that up.  Perhaps Lucas can tell us what checks for motors were in place at the women's Giro. 

    Topic two  - what the heck was Vos doing.  8 min 93 down in that ITT  43rd place.  She tried in a couple of bunch sprints but did not win and then got a single stage win from a 3 up group.  Now that is the profile of a clean rider.  But then she promptly does not start the day after her stage win.  This isn't a happy bunny, this is an individual, a rider who is hurting, hurting real bad.  So bad that getting what she could get from the race, she then ran off home.   We don't know what is going on but it is not natural behaviour.

    There are now a number of episodes relating to Marianne Vos that appear to be beyond explanation.  The broken rib, the pulled muscle and all sorts of other stuff.  but hey this is women's sport and women's sport as the OP stated, get's a magic pass.  Telling porkies and passing off the most extra-ordinary facts with some cock&bull story that does not pass first muster, is all part of the scene.


    We know for a fact that darling dearest Lizzy Wizzy told the most awesome porkers whilst she was waiting to go to all the pain of travelling to CAS for what - 20 minutes of introduction and nearly an attempt at starting to hear the evidence before the Tribunal Panel Member selected by our bulwark - UKAD - Yes our man over there looking after the interests of all clean atheltes as we know UKAD do - thought enough time had passed to be decent and he could now throw in the towel and tell the other two panel members that he did not support the UKAD claim and they could all wrap it all up right then and spend a few minutes filling in their expense claims before meeting in the bar prior to lunch.  Well blow me down with a feather, if it hadn't been for that nasty guy telling all the world about Lizzy telling porkies about leaving the Giro and missing the GB National Championships becasue she was training specifically for Rio, Lizzy could have been back at home at Monaco sharing tales with her bestest mate Tiff - you know the one who when she broke up with boyfriend Richie Porte, suddenly got enough money to get herself a flat.  So generous of LRP that to his ex.  Well Lizzy could have shared thoughts with BFFL(I kid you not - it is in her book) Tiff about which magazine deal to have at her wedding for "Gold Medalist of Rio marries fellow delightful pro Deignan".   We know all of that gets by the press becasue, well, the press are not looking.

    So Marianne continues to do strange stuff and no one bats an eyelid.  And back to our girl of the moment - AVV.  Well 20 years on from Festina - one of the fall outs from that was the ceasation of Dutch team TVM as their involvement in doping became public.  Oh yes, Miss Van Vleuten started her career with the good Marianne over at DBS.  Yes DBS with its senior director then, who is still with Marianne now - Jeroen Blijlevens.  Yes the guy who never doped.  They guy who when Dutch Cycling ran an inquiry into Doping - not quite "truth and reconcilliation" but "truth"  told the Dutch Cycling authorities, just like the good national coach for British cycling told Parliament when asked the same question - no I have never seen any PEDS and I have never used them.  Well Jeroen, that was a bit of a turn up, someone asking for those results of the 1998 samples to be made public.  It rather blew a hole in that "I never dun anything guv - honest" stuff. 

    But it did allow Jeoen to show quite how much he despises the fans of the sport and use the nice cliche "I only doped then - afterwards I rode without dope".  Yes like so many other dopers - your career highs followed that time of doping.  If only you had known - doping slows you down and you would ride better without it, like Froome's mentor Julrich having all his best results after that one time some nasty men encouraged him to use dope, Jeroen you could have had other years like your stella, career toping 1999. 

    I think you will have worked out what I think.  L'equipe is currently running a story saying Cookson at the UCI arranged for two French rider's positives to be brushed under the carpet. I think in the women's peloton a few riders know that they are too big to fall.  The silent ban, the wierd punishment - Jennie Longo riding 30 mins ahead of the peloton each day at the Tour Fem in the 90's when she was meant to be "having time out trying for a baby" - well it sounds sort of convincing doesn't it.  Will we ever find out the truth?  Well Longo has waltzed off into the sunset.  So here's looking to you girls - A VV, Vos, Armistead and Bronzini.  I think you know the game.  The guys at the top of the sport - eunuchs.

    Back home in Holland Femke is asking - why me ?   

    Well darling, you see if something somewhere needs to be described as clean, something else, that virtually no one cares about, needs to be shown to be dirty.  We need something to make people think that anti-doping works.  Femke - nobody cares about you, look your family nick parrots, your brother did epo, its best you don't hang around cycling.   Women's sport is about nice people, not people like you.   
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Women's cycling - Darkside
    « Reply #119 on: July 28, 2018, 22:48 »
    Perhaps Lucas can tell us what checks for motors were in place at the women's Giro. 
    I did not see anyone check bikes for motors (iPads or otherwise), but then I didn't actively look for it as I was more than busy interviewing people etc. I also didn't hear anyone say that there were categorically no checks for motors.

    Topic two  - what the heck was Vos doing.  8 min 93 down in that ITT  43rd place.  She tried in a couple of bunch sprints but did not win and then got a single stage win from a 3 up group.  Now that is the profile of a clean rider.  But then she promptly does not start the day after her stage win.  This isn't a happy bunny, this is an individual, a rider who is hurting, hurting real bad.  So bad that getting what she could get from the race, she then ran off home.   We don't know what is going on but it is not natural behaviour.
    What makes you say she is hurting real bad, and that this isn't natural behaviour? Losing nine minutes in the mountain TT makes perfect sense if she had earmarked the next day for a possible stage win.
    According to what people told me (and the world), after that stage win, she was ill the morning of the Zoncolan stage. Why would she put herself through the suffering of riding up that, just to finish 50th or so (or even worse), instead of taking a couple of days off and get that illness out of her system?
    Of course you could say that the illness itself was only an excuse - but then you're into territory where you don't believe anything some people say, just because they say it.
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