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kabloemski

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So, would you usually sympathise with the players unless they are total tools? And specifically cos the ref actually made a mess up, or because nobody's perfect and sometimes people just mouth off?


dwarf tossing

I'd give all my VR$ to see that!
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    Capt_Cavman

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    So, would you usually sympathise with the players unless they are total tools? And specifically cos the ref actually made a mess up, or because nobody's perfect and sometimes people just mouth off?

    I'd give all my VR$ to see that!
    Have you seen how Hockey is reffed? ("field" for those on the other side of the Atlantic). Just two officials, no mouthing off, no interference with the ball after the whistle has gone, no gamesmanship, no spats between players, nothing. The reason being that refs apply the letter of the law and players have to respond to that or find another hobby - zero tolerance. Calling someone, whoever, an effing cheat is probably a sending-off offence in most team sports; the fact that most sports, including rugby but especially football ("soccer" for those on the other side of the Atlantic) fail to stamp out these offences, does them no favours at all.

    I agree with lancasterke, that I'm glad Hartley isn't going on the trip, because he's a tool. That sort of petty, pointless indiscipline can cost you cup finals and it can cost you test series. Better to stay at home and reflect on how to move forward from here.
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  • lancasterke

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    If it was most other people I'd believe they were talking to another player and have sympathy that the  consequences were so severe.
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  • kabloemski

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    Have you seen how Hockey is reffed? ("field" for those on the other side of the Atlantic). Just two officials, no mouthing off, no interference with the ball after the whistle has gone, no gamesmanship, no spats between players, nothing. The reason being that refs apply the letter of the law and players have to respond to that or find another hobby - zero tolerance. Calling someone, whoever, an effing cheat is probably a sending-off offence in most team sports; the fact that most sports, including rugby but especially football ("soccer" for those on the other side of the Atlantic) fail to stamp out these offences, does them no favours at all.

    I agree with lancasterke, that I'm glad Hartley isn't going on the trip, because he's a tool. That sort of petty, pointless indiscipline can cost you cup finals and it can cost you test series. Better to stay at home and reflect on how to move forward from here.

    Thanks, I'm inclined to agree with you.
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  • kabloemski

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    If it was most other people I'd believe they were talking to another player and have sympathy that the  consequences were so severe.

    Ok, I see, thanks.
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  • sublimit

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    Dylan Hartley is a bit of an idiot,  Best is probably better anyway so no worries there.

    But considering how poor and arbitrary some refereeing decisions can be its no surprise this sort of cheating stuff from Hartley and histrionics from the likes of Richard Cockeril are starting to creep in though.



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  • kabloemski

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    But considering how poor and arbitrary some refereeing decisions can be its no surprise

    Tbh I don't have a clue who any of these guys are, rugby is one of the sports I don't really follow at all, although I do enjoy watching it, it's not one of my faves. The article was interesting and what with all the sh*t going on in football I was curious to know what others 'in the know' think. So, are the refs *really* that bad? Bad enough to make players acting out their frustrations slightly justifiable? I know this is the rugby thread, but I guess the reason I ask in the 1st place is more to do with football than rugby.
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  • sublimit

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    In my opinion there a lot of bad referees out there,  particularly for International matches where being a spectator you can be kind of left dumbfounded, baffled or whatever.

    Welshman Nigel Owens is a particularly good referee but too many are biased, incompetent or both for me.

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  • kabloemski

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    Thanks, Subs.
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  • Kvinto

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    Good job today by the Brumbies to deny Lions of the good spirits of 6 out of 6 before the first test on Saturday. Shame that the game was scheduled on the same week as the 1st test so both teams were considerably weakened. To be fair the Lions were non-existent before the subs. Hogg had the game to forget, maybe if Farrell replaced him earlier the Lions would’ve won (they'll  start with Sexton as their №10 on Saturday anyway) but I'm quite content it didn't happen and the Brumbies won.

    Unfortunetely I won’t be able to watch the first test on Saturday but sincerely hope The Wallabies will win it. 
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  • "Women buy stuff at sales for the same reason men climb mountains - because they're there" (from 'Under the Dome' by Stephen King)

    Mellow Velo

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     Great win for the Lions and a fantastic try from our boy.
     All round the wing play was terrific for it's quality of finishing.

    The Lions clearly had problems in dealing with the referee's interpretation.
    Something that shouldn't be an issue for the rest of the series.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    ram

    Can't win tests without a goal kicker. Australia found that, 11 straight forward missed points and Beale's last penalty. How bad was O'Connor? So bad that I desperately want to see Quade Cooper. Thought the game bypassed him and Genia was the sole playmaker. Deans cocked up by not selecting Cooper for the squad. Could do worse than picking Toomua too.

    Welcome to test matches Israel Folau. And so too Leli'ifano on a rather worse note.

    Lions' scrum completely collapsed in the second half. Definitely expecting Australia to get more coordinated in the next match, hopefully with the Queensland pair at half back.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Lucky Lions. Sets the rest of the series up nicely though.
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  • AG

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    more like crappy Aussies ... if the Wallabies learn to kick straight we might have a chance    :fp
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  • Mellow Velo

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    more like crappy Aussies ... if the Wallabies learn to kick straight we might have a chance    :fp

    That's about the size of it.
    Sure, the Lions were "lucky" that the Aussie goal kicking was atrocious,
    but they sure were "unlucky" with how many of those penalties were
    awarded in the first place.

    According to referee Pollack's interpretation of the breakdown, it is illegal to
    contest the ball on the floor while standing on your feet, because your weight
    is being supported by players in the ruck. However, it is legal to dive over the ruck
    to contest the ball.
    That's a pretty "unique" interpretation, it has to be said.

    Until yesterday, I'd never realised that a forward pass, no matter how forward, 
    wasn't a forward pass just so long as a player's hand are pointing backwards at the time.

     However, very bad luck for the Aussies with all those injuries amongst their backs.

    All in all, I'd say that the luck evened itself out.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Until yesterday, I'd never realised that a forward pass, no matter how forward, 
    wasn't a forward pass just so long as a player's hand are pointing backwards at the time.
    :wut
    I don't know much about rugby, but I know that a forward pass is no-no, no matter what.
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    RIP Keith

    Kvinto

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    Meh, it was a decent try, no need to spoil it by the itty-bitty forward pass  :brzzzz
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  • ram

    The second Folau try? Thought it was along the line. And if that was an issue, BOD obstructing JOC?

    The first, I agree, there was no advantage and should've been a Lions penalty.
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    As enny skoolboy kno,

    if you run forward along the x axis with vector velocity v and throw the ball behind you with velocity u such that the vector velocity along the x axis is less than v, then the ball will travel backwards relative to the players but forwards relative to the pitch.

    When you then factor in the referee's relative motion which can lead to a backwards pass looking forwards and vici versa, it is understandable that rugby looks at the direction of the players hands rather than the flight of the ball to determine marginal calls.

    The Lions did get lucky with the kicks, but actually the main bit of luck was in having so many Wallabies' backs put out of the game, something that led directly to the Cuthbert try. But instead of leading to a flood of tries, that was about the last time he received a pass.
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  • Mellow Velo

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     Another stroke of fine fortune for Australia.
    Cap'n Horwill gets reprieved for introducing his studs
    to Alun Wyn Jones's face.
    No sanction certainly makes it honours even in the luck stakes.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Mind you, watching the mid week game right now and have to say that watching the Lion's play is
    a bit like watching Sky riding a mountain stage. :ohno:
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  • sublimit

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    The best compliment I can say is that they play like England circa 2003 -  Boring but getting the job done. 

    Though that team arguably had better forwards but worse backs than the current Lions.
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  • Mellow Velo

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     Aussies well worthy of their second test win.
    Seems they want to play with ball in hand and the Lion's don't.
    Now to catch up with that bit of a bike race...........
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  • sublimit

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    Considering they have so many Welsh players the Lions are not playing like Wales at all.   Strange considering Gatland is the coach.   

    Questions will be asked if they continue to play so cautiously I reckon.
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  • Dancing on the Pedals

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    Can't help but feel Gatland has taken a huge gamble with the team for the final test.  No BOD?  Yes he's getting on a bit, but still one of the top centres in the world and in a match of this importance I'd have him in the team.  It's basically Wales vs Australia for the final test - Aussies win.  There is zero creativity in the backs that will threaten the Aussies - Roberts to go route one, and not much else.  No back 3 cover either...



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  • 'Sacrifice and hard work is our only secret' - Alberto Contador
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    froome19

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    He had to change something, but has he changed too much?
    He picked what I believe he genuinely believed was his best team and I can just hope they justify that. I would have liked to see Tuilagi in that team as well but obviously the competition for places in the centre is quite fierce.
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  • RIP Keith

    Dancing on the Pedals

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    Main problem with the centres is that only one 12 was taken - Roberts, so with him injured, they've been on the back foot. 

    If they win on Saturday, Gatland's a genius, if they lose (and I fear they will), then he'll be loudly criticised.  Either way, should be a cracking match - more North vs Falau match up's please!
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  • Kvinto

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    I watched the third test of 2001 Lions' Tour the other day. Awesome game, I would love to see something on par (in terms of entertainment) today. Pity that O'Driscoll got omitted and great to see George Smith again... I'll be cheering for the Wallabies, though I perhaps bear a little bit more sympathy to the Lions squad on aggregate but I've read probably too much British press before the tour and must say they are pretty versed in alienating neutral supporters.  But anyway, may the best team win.
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  • Mellow Velo

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     Well the Lions have scored under the posts inside 2 minutes.
    Could be in for a cracker.

    Now Smith out of the game already.
    Yet another clash of heads.
    Hibbard's must be made of rock.
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  • AG

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    the Lions certainly look pretty fresh and ready to play .   going to be a fun game
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