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I don't really know what to think about it - if all members are clean anyway, does it still need a movement like this?

The purpose of this movement must be to make the dirty teams become credible as well, and thereby the whole sport - whether that will happen with Astana if they stay a member of the MPCC, I seriously don't know. But will anything change at all if they are booted out? I doubt it.
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

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    And if you kick them out, then there is less control under the WADA code.

    it is a rock or hard place, hopefully MPCC boot them, and the UCI doesn't give them a licence.

    unlikely but....
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    L'arri

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    Go for the soft target. Always the same crap. Race to the bottom.

    People attacking the MPCC for having stricter rules and arguably better transparency.

    Why should Astana be kicked out? There is no rule about getting kicked out.

    The infraction was valid and so too are the consequences. That is credibility.

    Meanwhile where is the UCI's credibility? The UCI does nothing more than sanction two riders from the same time and make half-arsed murmurs about a review at the next licence meeting.

    Nobody is demanding the UCI to kick out Astana. Oh no, let's just beat on the soft target. Idiots. No, engage your brains and demand that the UCI to grow a pair.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    Go for the soft target. Always the same crap. Race to the bottom.

    People attacking the MPCC for having stricter rules and arguably better transparency.

    Why should Astana be kicked out? There is no rule about getting kicked out.

    The infraction was valid and so too are the consequences. That is credibility.

    Meanwhile where is the UCI's credibility? The UCI does nothing more than sanction two riders from the same time and make half-arsed murmurs about a review at the next licence meeting.

    Nobody is demanding the UCI to kick out Astana. Oh no, let's just beat on the soft target. Idiots. No, engage your brains and demand that the UCI to grow a pair.

    Hang on a minute.
    Folks are calling for Astana to be kicked out of the MPCC for flaunting their rules and making the organisation look toothless and ineffective. In which case, Astana simply walk away and carry on racing.
    A far cry from the UCI kicking them out of the WT, for breaking somebody else's rules.

    The bottom line is that Astana remain in the MPCC and continue to benefit from it as a useful PR tool. Which in reality is the only reason for their membership.
    Meanwhile, the cost to the MPCC's credibility comes in having to now make statements like this:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-respected-mpcc-rules-says-legeay
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    Flo

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    Go for the soft target. Always the same crap. Race to the bottom.

    People attacking the MPCC for having stricter rules and arguably better transparency.

    Why should Astana be kicked out? There is no rule about getting kicked out.

    The infraction was valid and so too are the consequences. That is credibility.

    Meanwhile where is the UCI's credibility? The UCI does nothing more than sanction two riders from the same time and make half-arsed murmurs about a review at the next licence meeting.

    Nobody is demanding the UCI to kick out Astana. Oh no, let's just beat on the soft target. Idiots. No, engage your brains and demand that the UCI to grow a pair.

    Which rules is Astana obviously toying with? UCI or MPCC?
    Yes they are BREAKING UCI rules by having a doping program on their team, but there isn't any hard evidence for that. They are bending and twisting the MPCC rules they signed up for themselves to suit their own agenda and still make it seem like they give two flips.

    And lol MV MPCC getting more ridiculous every minute.

    If they really care about credibility, they should kick Astana out. 1 day, yes Iglinskiy wants his B sample to be tested so we can race Lombardia and Almaty, the next day, lol just kidding, Iglinskiy wants to confess so we have to miss Beijing and not Tour Down Under.
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    presser MPCC

    https://twitter.com/MPCC_Cycling/status/524821416609591296

    Le Mouvement pour un Cyclisme Crédible (The Movement For Credible Cycling) (MPCC) noted that all member teams stood by the rules laid down by the movement in 2014, with the exception of Neri Sottoli team. MPCC deplored that this structure did not forewarn spontaneously, following the positive control of its rider Matteo Rabottini, and did not provide an explanation acceptable to the general meeting, to which it does not show up. The membership of Neri Sottoli team for 2015 will be dependent on the content of new explanations.
     
    Concerning the Astana team, Dmitriy Fofonov, mandated by the general manager Alexandre Vinokourov, publicly delivered explanations of the team following the positive controls of Maxim and Valentin Iglinskiy, while reaffirming the commitment of the team at the MPCC rules. The team has been self-suspended for a period of one week during the Tour of Beijing (World Tour). The General Assembly took note and found that the Astana team fully observed the regulation of MPCC  in a very short time (four days).
     
    In the context of self-suspensions, the demands of  MPCC to introduce all or part of its rules in the regulation of the International Cycling Union (UCI) is under consideration by the UCI, the objectives are the same as those pursued by MPCC.
     
    Teams members of MPCC ask for the number of cortisol tests, produced several times a year on a voluntary basis, to be increased and whether made on various categories of races, including the continental circuits.
     
    MPCC wants to be implemented quickly, in collaboration with the UCI, a committee of international experts, including two doctors of MPCC teams, to determine common positions on the use of corticosteroids.
     
    The General Assembly of MPCC has unanimously validated its rules and regulations for 2015, which includes several changes. From now on, abnormal biological passport, using an electric or motorized bike, corruption facts or illegal sports betting, having been the object of disciplinary proceedings by the UCI, will be taken into account in the process of self-suspension.
     
    The mandates of Roger Legeay, Iwan Spekenbrink (Giant-Shimano), Vincent Lavenu (AG2R La Mondiale) and Yvon Sanquer (Cofidis), outgoing members of the board, were renewed at the General Meeting.
     
    The composition of the Board of Directors MPCC 2015:
     
    - Roger Legeay, President
    - Iwan Spekenbrink (Giant-Shimano), Vice-President
    - Philippe Senmartin, Secretary
    - Vincent Lavenu (AG2R La Mondiale), Treasurer
    - Serge Beucherie (IAM Cycling), Assistant Secretary
    - Marc Sergeant (Lotto-Soudal), Assistant Treasurer
    - Christophe Brandt (Color Code - Biowanze), Member
    - Yvon Sanquer (Cofidis), Member
    - Gianni Savio (Androni Giocattoli - Venezuela), Member
     
    Doctors representatives of MPCC in 2015 will be Dr. William Gerard (FDJ) and Dr. Jan Mathieu (Lotto-Soudal).
     
    Representatives of  Sponsors members of  MPCC in 2015 will be Marc Frederix (Belgian National Lottery) and Thierry Huguenin (FDJ).
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  • just some guy

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    So #fluo may not be part of MPCC IN 2015 But #astana are Goldern :lol
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  • LukasCPH

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    *kz #astana DS Dmitry Fofonov (a rider who tested positive during the 2008 Tour de France and was suspended (for three months, by the *kz Kazakh federation), delivers an explanation on the two positives by *kz #astana riders Maksim & Valentin Iglinsky, on behalf of *kz #astana manager Aleksandr Vinokourov (positive in the 2007 Tour de France, suspended for one year instead of the usual two by the *kz Kazakh federation, sitting out another year 'voluntarily' before making his comeback).

    You couldn't make this stuff up. :lol
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    When you put it like that

    The issue is you kick these teams out they go back to UCI/WADA code, which is less strict than this one, really is a lose lose situation for the MPCC amd what they are trying to achieve
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    http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/10/news/neri-sottoli-hoping-giro-invite-amid-doping-concerns_350408

    Quote
    Boiling in the background is the MPCC. The movement said in a press release this week that it did not appreciate how the team responded to Rabottini’s doping positive and warned a punishment could follow.

    Citracca disagreed with its stance and said that he is pushing cycling’s governing body to unify the rules for all teams instead of having separate voluntary rules that some teams adhere to and others do not.

    The rule change may come because UCI President Brian Cookson said last month that he wants to streamline the rules to avoid confusion for fans, which occurred for example when Lampre-Merida stopped Chris Horner from racing the Vuelta a España due to low cortisol levels.

    There’s no help with being a MPCC member, there are just requirements and no rights that come along with such membership. The rules are not clear, not respected equally.

    We joined because we are a pro team, if we are not in the MPCC, then we’ll have problems racing in certain races. You’re obliged in a sense to join. The UCI needs to look at that, if it is correct that the organizers are obliging teams to be part of an association to race. We are already paying a lot of money to the UCI for the passport and following strict financial guidelines, but then an association like MPCC decides if you can race?”

     :S
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  • Flo

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    I wonder if there are some translation issues
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  • LukasCPH

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    Sounds a bit different to last year's "We are committed to clean cycling, di Luca was forced upon us by a sponsor, Santambrogio was a lonesome cowboy, we are anti-doping", doesn't it?

    At least Citracca is honest, that much I give him.
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  • just some guy

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    L'arri

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #103 on: November 29, 2014, 07:46 »
    MPCC: Unfair to consider Astana WorldTour and Continental teams as same entity

    This is the first occasion I can recall in which the situation is reversed, i.e. that the MPCC publicly backs a member rather than the other way around. I suppose one has to enjoy some sort of value from membership rather than just a lot of obligations.

    So they are not the same entity but when they share a DS and Vinokourov is the one with the power to shut down the Conti team, one wonders how that can really be justified ...
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  • Flo

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    just some guy

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #105 on: November 29, 2014, 08:49 »
    This is the first occasion I can recall in which the situation is reversed, i.e. that the MPCC publicly backs a member rather than the other way around. I suppose one has to enjoy some sort of value from membership rather than just a lot of obligations.

    So they are not the same entity but when they share a DS and Vinokourov is the one with the power to shut down the Conti team, one wonders how that can really be justified ...
    And sponsors, maybe even a Dr, , about as seperate as identical twins.

    will not do much to put MPCC in a positive light with the kids, but not unexpected,  and the same line the UCI independent licence commission will use when they hand a licence to Astana WT
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  • « Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 09:02 by just some guy »

    search

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #106 on: December 03, 2014, 14:18 »
    #fluo suspended from further membership with immediate effect. 5 weeks self suspension for Astana Continental in case they'll continue

    http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/news-uk/item/355-12-03-press-release
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  • Flo

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #107 on: December 03, 2014, 14:31 »
    #fluo suspended from further membership with immediate effect. 5 weeks self suspension for Astana Continental in case they'll continue

    http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/news-uk/item/355-12-03-press-release

    More retarded BS.
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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #108 on: December 03, 2014, 14:40 »
    why?
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  • Flo

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #109 on: December 03, 2014, 14:59 »
    why?

    Yellow Fluo banned from the elite group, Astana continental gets a slap on the wrist, Astana WT gets praised because of how well they followed the rules, even though they obviously toyed with them to be able to race Almaty.

    Double standards, double standards everywhere. I bet Vino gave them some nice money.

    Anyway, happy Yellow Fluo is out, proper teams shouldn't be part of such a joke.
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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #110 on: December 03, 2014, 15:12 »
    #fluo didn't inform them about the Rabottini positive. Then they said the MPCC was useless and teams would give a flip about their rules anyway. Of course they were thrown out, I don't think it matters if they had one positive or three (which are still 2 btw, officially).

    As I mentioned earlier, if you have clean teams only you don't need an organization like the MPCC anyway. From my point of view, they now do have the chance to show that they really can change cycling - if they fail to do so, so may it be, but by throwing out Astana now they'd lose all credibility.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #111 on: December 03, 2014, 15:55 »
    #fluo didn't inform them about the Rabottini positive. Then they said the MPCC was useless and teams would give a flip about their rules anyway. Of course they were thrown out, I don't think it matters if they had one positive or three (which are still 2 btw, officially).

    This is correct. The team failed to a) inform the MPCC of the positive in a timely manner and b) appear at a scheduled meeting to explain the circumstances of the positive.

    Whatever we think about Astana, the demand for a five-week self-suspension of Astana CT (which, incidentally, has always been treated by MPCC as a separate member) is a straightforward application of the rules to which all parties have agreed, just as all parties agreed to remove Neri-Sottoli.

    There may be many and valid disagreements over the value and purpose of the MPCC but these decisions are evidence of neither "retarded BS" nor "double standards". Any remaining criticism of these decisions should be levelled at the members themselves.

    Thus apparently we think all of the following are applicators of double standards and utterers of retarded BS:

    Ag2r-La Mondiale, Astana, Belkin Pro Cycling, Team Europcar, FDJ.fr, Garmin-Sharp, Giant-Shimano, Team Katusha, Lampre-Merida, Lotto-Belisol, Orica-GreenEDGE, Androni Giocattoli-Venezuela, Bardiani-CSF, Bretagne-Séché Environnement, Caja Rural-Seguros RGA, Cofidis, Colombia, Drapac Professional Cycling, IAM Cycling, MTN Qhubeka, Team NetApp-Endura, Team Novo Nordisk, RusVelo, Topsport Vlaanderen-Baloise, UnitedHealthcare, Wanty-Groupe Gobert ... and many others ... the majority of Euro pro road cycling for both genders, then.

    Once again, I think some of us are choosing to take potshots at the wrong target.
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  • « Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 16:12 by L'arri »

    Flo

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #112 on: December 03, 2014, 16:20 »
    apparently we think all of the following are applicators of double standards and utterers of retarded BS:

    Ag2r-La Mondiale, Astana, Belkin Pro Cycling, Team Europcar, FDJ.fr, Garmin-Sharp, Giant-Shimano, Team Katusha, Lampre-Merida, Lotto-Belisol, Orica-GreenEDGE, Androni Giocattoli-Venezuela, Bardiani-CSF, Bretagne-Séché Environnement, Caja Rural-Seguros RGA, Cofidis, Colombia, Drapac Professional Cycling, IAM Cycling, MTN Qhubeka, Team NetApp-Endura, Team Novo Nordisk, RusVelo, Topsport Vlaanderen-Baloise, UnitedHealthcare, Wanty-Groupe Gobert ... and many others ... the majority of Euro pro road cycling for both genders, then.

    Once again, I think some of us are choosing to take potshots at the wrong target.

    No. You are twisting my words. Stop that. I implied MPCC (the organization, not the members) apply double standards and that their rules are retarded bullsh*t.

    The members are just loser teams that are looking for good PR and that I could never support.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #113 on: December 03, 2014, 16:28 »
    No. You are twisting my words. Stop that. I implied MPCC (the organization, not the members) apply double standards and that their rules are retarded bullsh*t.

    The members are just loser teams that are looking for good PR and that I could never support.
    But flo tbe members are MPCC there is no MPCC they joined, it was created by those teams
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  • Flo

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #114 on: December 03, 2014, 16:30 »
    But flo tbe members are MPCC there is no MPCC they joined, it was created by those teams

    that is not true
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #115 on: December 03, 2014, 16:35 »

    MPCC is a organisation created by teams, there is a group of foundation members, very large amount of the teams were there from the start

    Unless you show me otherwise.........

     
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  • Flo

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #116 on: December 03, 2014, 16:36 »
    MPCC is a organisation created by teams, there is a group of foundation members, very large amount of the teams were there from the start

    Unless you show me otherwise.........

    Well then I hate those teams even more than the ones that joined later.

    That is the last thing I'll say about it, I need a break from cycling forums, they just make me tired, angry and frustrated, there is nothing about it that makes me happy anymore.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #117 on: December 03, 2014, 16:38 »
     :S :S  ok did I miss something today ?
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #118 on: December 03, 2014, 16:40 »
    Look, Flo, I apologise for my rather brittle post above and I agree there are plenty of reasons to be critical of the MPCC.

    That said, it should be recognised that the MPCC is not some kind of top-down organisation like the UCI or a corporation.

    It is a representative association, which means that the members have to show up for meetings and they have to table, discuss and agree to everything, in the same way that one might conduct a local political meeting.

    And the members have been consistent in their application of the rules they all agreed to. If you look back over the decisions that have been made, nobody ever got a free pass and the rules such as they are were not twisted.

    Equally, the rules they set themselves are very limited in scope, for the precise reason that the MPCC is not a top-down organisation or governing body. So these rules do not address doping in a comprehensive way, they were always supposed to be supplementary to those of the UCI/WADA, to cover areas the members believed were not adequately addressed by the present WADA code.

    Once again, I would agree that there is plenty of scope to argue about the validity and utility of the MPCC but I think that one can only do that with these things in mind.
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  • neppe

    • Sunday Rider
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    Re: Mouvement pour un cyclisme crédible (MPCC)
    « Reply #119 on: December 03, 2014, 17:16 »
    With Neri out of MPCC I'd like to see RCA deny them wildcards, like they've said they will do. If that happens MPCC has brought a little change to cycling (again). A type of change UCI hasn't been capable of bringing. If a team gets 3 EPO positives in a row and doesn't give a damn about it they shouldn't be riding Giro d'Italia year after year. But my fate in RCA isn't the highest.
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