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TexPat

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2012, 09:25 »
As strange as it may seem, I am simultaneously saddened, disgusted, and bored by all of this.
Floyd is, by my reckoning, taking a lot of heat for something that wasn't at all extraordinary among his immediate peers. Let's face it; the purity of performance by the bosses of the peloton in that era is laughable. Floyd took a page from the playbook of  those same peers to build his defense after he was nabbed.
They were all cheats. He is unfortunately becoming the sacrificial lamb for systemic corruption in US cycling--the Good Ol' Boys fall guy, if you will. (Oddly enough, Floyd may be the one true cowboy among them. Imagine that! The Mennonite Cowboy!)
Be that as it may, he seems far less culpable, and his dishonesty far less insidious than his former captain's. In his mind he must have been thinking that if sh*t-for-brains-with-withered-manbits can get away with it, then surely I can.
Except, he didn't play The Game right.
It's disgusting that Justice (the big word, the ideal) seems to be so easily perverted and reverted by the power-and-money elite.
I'm filled with guilt that even the most miniscule amount of my intellectual and emotional energy has been wasted on this, yet my ego requires it. Stupid thing for a rational 21st century Man to do, no doubt. I could have used the noggin for so many other more useful endeavours.
The boredom comes from the cynical view I hold of all proceedings in the US. There is so little right in any of it.
How big of a fraud does one have to commit in the US to get away with it? It seems that a critical mass must exist at which point the  preposterous nature of the fraud exceeds the peoples' ability to recognize it as such.
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    flicker2.0

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #121 on: April 30, 2012, 06:17 »
    As strange as it may seem, I am simultaneously saddened, disgusted, and bored by all of this.
    Floyd is, by my reckoning, taking a lot of heat for something that wasn't at all extraordinary among his immediate peers. Let's face it; the purity of performance by the bosses of the peloton in that era is laughable. Floyd took a page from the playbook of  those same peers to build his defense after he was nabbed.
    They were all cheats. He is unfortunately becoming the sacrificial lamb for systemic corruption in US cycling--the Good Ol' Boys fall guy, if you will. (Oddly enough, Floyd may be the one true cowboy among them. Imagine that! The Mennonite Cowboy!)
    Be that as it may, he seems far less culpable, and his dishonesty far less insidious than his former captain's. In his mind he must have been thinking that if poo-for-brains-with-withered-manbits can get away with it, then surely I can.
    Except, he didn't play The Game right.
    It's disgusting that Justice (the big word, the ideal) seems to be so easily perverted and reverted by the power-and-money elite.
    I'm filled with guilt that even the most miniscule amount of my intellectual and emotional energy has been wasted on this, yet my ego requires it. Stupid thing for a rational 21st century Man to do, no doubt. I could have used the noggin for so many other more useful endeavours.
    The boredom comes from the cynical view I hold of all proceedings in the US. There is so little right in any of it.
    How big of a fraud does one have to commit in the US to get away with it? It seems that a critical mass must exist at which point the  preposterous nature of the fraud exceeds the peoples' ability to recognize it as such.
    Can't buy the fact that Lance or anyone else was responsable for Floyds' downfall. An analogy can be made that all people cheat on their income taxes. However if an individual is investigated for fudging his or her tax books and is asked for an audit by the IRS, who and what sort of individual then points fingers at others for tax fraud? How often does that strategy work?
    The US has less corruption than other countries. Does that mean that the US is not corrupt.
    Also it is interesting to note that two of the excluded favorites were excluded from the 06 tour because of Puerto, making it easier for Floyd to win the 06 Tour.
    All that can be said in Floyds' behalf,(IMO) is that he was unlucky enough to be caught by a highly sensitive spectrometer test. That is 100 percent on Floyd and not on McQuaid, UCI, Armstrong etc.
    As my man Chris Horner would say, 'Facts are facts.' Floyd rolled the dice one to many times......

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  • AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #122 on: April 30, 2012, 07:49 »
    Yep - I am with Flicker on this one.

    Its not about doping.  Its not about revenge, or someone else getting away with it and  he didnt.

    He got caught - and isnt being proscecuted for that.  But where he crossed a line is he  started a fund to raise money from the public ... which he called a "Fairness Fund", and then later admitted to those same facts.

    As far as I know, he still stands to gain from the 'whistleblowers' action he is taking ... so his claim to be doing it all in the public good doesnt actually ring true to me either.

    I have a lot more sympathy for Tyler Hamilton ... who gave back his medal and has come clean with not much to gain, and who didnt try and get donations from people to prove his innocence.

    I have a lot more sympathy for Basso and Scarponi and Valverde who got banned out of Peurto when Frank Schleck and many others didnt.

    Just because someone else gets away with it, it doesnt lessen the crime that you commit.
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  • Ram

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #123 on: April 30, 2012, 10:37 »
    Aye, a muppet is a muppet. Just because was associated with thundermuppets who didn't get caught, doesn't mean he's not a muppet and deserves to walk off. I didn't see him acting saintly at all during the duration of this case. If he's the so called fall guy, he did put himself well in that spot.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #124 on: May 05, 2012, 02:11 »
    http://nos.nl/artikel/369822-rabobank-tolereerde-doping.html

    Dutch article in a newspaper, here reported by the NOS, claims that Rabobank tolerated doping in 2007 and earlier. Rasmussen is mentioned, but so is Boogerd, who (of course) denied. Interestingly, Theo de Rooij (team manager) admits he knew certain riders doped. He sais the riders themselves were responsible, and only wanted to tolerate it if they were doping without too many risks for the riders' health.
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  • flicker2.0

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #126 on: May 08, 2012, 05:35 »
    NEW YORK -- San Francisco Giants reliever Guillermo Mota was suspended for 100 games on Monday, becoming just the third major league player penalized twice for positive drug tests.

    The commissioner's office said the 38-year-old right-hander tested positive for Clenbuterol.


    Baseball players don't even need to control their weight. Weird.

    38 year old reliever. Pretty amazing. These guys gotta be juicing in all sorts of ways. I would ask the BALCO man/all kinds of topical ointments, Victor Conte and Co. are pros.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #127 on: May 08, 2012, 08:52 »
    NEW YORK -- San Francisco Giants reliever Guillermo Mota was suspended for 100 games on Monday, becoming just the third major league player penalized twice for positive drug tests.

    The commissioner's office said the 38-year-old right-hander tested positive for Clenbuterol.


    Baseball players don't even need to control their weight. Weird.

    38 year old reliever. Pretty amazing. These guys gotta be juicing in all sorts of ways. I would ask the BALCO man/all kinds of topical ointments, Victor Conte and Co. are pros.

    I agree with Flicker: it is pretty crazy for a guy of his age. So why use the stuff?

    Apart from the brochodilatory effects - which never seem to be relevant to the doping aspect (I assume there's a reason for that) - Clenbuterol might typically be employed when the intent is not only to lose weight but also - and I think this bit is important - to lose weight quite quickly.

    So while most athletes will do it for performance reasons, sometimes I think that there may also a little room for vanity and narcissism in a "candy store" drug culture that promotes too much symbiosis between sport and medical practitioners. Perhaps it's this latter idea that might cover at least part of the motivation of our ageing baseball hero.
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    benotti69

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #128 on: May 08, 2012, 10:47 »
    NEW YORK -- San Francisco Giants reliever Guillermo Mota was suspended for 100 games on Monday, becoming just the third major league player penalized twice for positive drug tests.

    The commissioner's office said the 38-year-old right-hander tested positive for Clenbuterol.


    Baseball players don't even need to control their weight. Weird.

    I think Clen has become a fashionable drug for those wishing to lose a bit fat and gain a bit of muscle. Whether it works or not for other sports apart from cycling, i have not got a clue!
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    flicker2.0

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #129 on: May 08, 2012, 18:38 »
    I agree with Flicker: it is pretty crazy for a guy of his age. So why use the stuff?

    Apart from the brochodilatory effects - which never seem to be relevant to the doping aspect (I assume there's a reason for that) - Clenbuterol might typically be employed when the intent is not only to lose weight but also - and I think this bit is important - to lose weight quite quickly.

    So while most athletes will do it for performance reasons, sometimes I think that there may also a little room for vanity and narcissism in a "candy store" drug culture that promotes too much symbiosis between sport and medical practitioners. Perhaps it's this latter idea that might cover at least part of the motivation of our ageing baseball hero.

    I agree, sports are show biz in a way. Look at how Armstrong, Tiger, and Contador beefed up.
    Is it simple training, or vanity? For a 38 year relief pitcher, or for what was Armstrong 2.0. I see a lot of vanity. With Tiger and Barry Bonds, it looks more like weight training, combined with Steroids
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #130 on: May 09, 2012, 01:10 »
    The 2004 olympic samples may be retested

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/international-olympic-committee-may-retest-2004-samples

    Its expected that the 172nd placed Honduras rider will be named olympic road race champion.
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  • ram

    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #131 on: May 09, 2012, 04:01 »
    I agree, sports are show biz in a way. Look at how Armstrong, Tiger, and Contador beefed up.
    Is it simple training, or vanity? For a 38 year relief pitcher, or for what was Armstrong 2.0. I see a lot of vanity. With Tiger and Barry Bonds, it looks more like weight training, combined with Steroids
    Doping in golf really should have no effect at all, generally speaking. It is the coordination that makes a world of difference. Sure power helps, not so much, but a player like Matteo Manassero (who hits the ball only some 30 yards longer than I) is far more effective than a Victor Dubuisson. What we have to realise is Tiger's game was based on an awesome array of skills, and not just a long drive. He could've doped, and there's really no way to say either way, but he could easily achieve the results he did without dope. It isn't a stamina sport is golf, it is skill only, and if there's a drug to increase hand eye coordination at high speeds, it'd be pretty clear everyone would jump on it. At the moment though, I don't think that's readily available.

    In essence, a short length player with fine iron skills would be well better than a long length player with dodgy irons, and a long length player with good irons can only really get a benefit in 3 holes in a round and it could, no would, be an impediment if he tried to change his game just to increase the length. Just see Martin Kaymer's career, he tried to change his swing in 2011 by increasing draw to it to suit the course at Augusta national and hasn't been the same player since.
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  • « Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 04:13 by ram »

    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #132 on: May 09, 2012, 08:28 »
    Doping in golf really should have no effect at all, generally speaking. It is the coordination that makes a world of difference. Sure power helps, not so much, but a player like Matteo Manassero (who hits the ball only some 30 yards longer than I) is far more effective than a Victor Dubuisson. What we have to realise is Tiger's game was based on an awesome array of skills, and not just a long drive. He could've doped, and there's really no way to say either way, but he could easily achieve the results he did without dope. It isn't a stamina sport is golf, it is skill only, and if there's a drug to increase hand eye coordination at high speeds, it'd be pretty clear everyone would jump on it. At the moment though, I don't think that's readily available.

    In essence, a short length player with fine iron skills would be well better than a long length player with dodgy irons, and a long length player with good irons can only really get a benefit in 3 holes in a round and it could, no would, be an impediment if he tried to change his game just to increase the length. Just see Martin Kaymer's career, he tried to change his swing in 2011 by increasing draw to it to suit the course at Augusta national and hasn't been the same player since.

    Beta blockers will help golf players 
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    ram

    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #133 on: May 09, 2012, 08:36 »
    Valium could do that just as well. Not that I know of any professionals who have valium, nor has there ever been a come clean story, ever. There have been in other sports, not in golf.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #134 on: May 09, 2012, 11:42 »


    Quote
    FFC president David Lappartient told L’Équipe that the unannounced tests were carried out under the auspices of the federation, and that in the case of a sample showing elevated levels of cortisol, “a certificate preventing the practice of high level sport could be issued.”

    “There were twenty tests, and one rider did not start again,” Lappartient continued.

    The only non-starter on stage five of the 4 Jours de Dunkerque was former Tour de France king of the mountains Anthony Charteau (Europcar). Team manager Jean-René Bernaudeau said that his rider withdrew from the race due to a knee injury.


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-federation-tests-for-corticoids-at-4-jours-de-dunkerque
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #135 on: May 09, 2012, 11:47 »
    No one will be surprised if he was indeed doping.
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  • Dr. Horrible the Mad Elephant Man

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #136 on: May 09, 2012, 11:53 »
    No one will be surprised if he was indeed doping.

    Yes, he appears to have a big chin. Does doping cause ears to stick out?
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    bicing

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #137 on: May 09, 2012, 11:55 »


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-federation-tests-for-corticoids-at-4-jours-de-dunkerque
    i think l'quipe has made a desperate attempt to indicate association of doping where it doesn't really exist.

    i also would not be surprised, and i don't like the guy because he exerts some sort of sick interest in winning against substandard competition in gabon, but it's weird to suggest doping for something so small...
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #138 on: May 11, 2012, 08:51 »


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-astana-manager-sanquer-back-on-the-road-at-giro-with-fdj-bigmat

    Sanquer's collaboration with Astana ended after only one year. Since the issue of Contador's doping ban for clenbuterol has been on his mind. "I had paid a lot of attention to the doping issue at Astana," he said. "Alberto rode the 2010 Tour de France clean. From where we started in October 2009 until the win in July, a lot of good work was done. Everyone knows me as an anti-doping campaigner. I don't want to discuss too much about the end of my relationship with Astana, but there were some different opinions."

    interesting thing to say right after discussing Doping 
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #139 on: May 11, 2012, 18:50 »
    Just a general observation, so I won't bother to find a source. I noted with no interest at all that the Amir Khan boxing tie had been cancelled due to a positive test by his opponent.

    What was interesting however was the anger of the promoter who must now compensate ticketholders and probably a host of other stakeholders, which of course does not occur in cycling. The cause of his anger, though understandable, was a misapprehension of anti-doping procedures. Khan's opponent was tested in April, he railed, so why did they only tell anyone the result now?

    Apparently the unfortunate man does not know that dope tests do not yield instant results like a roadside breath test for alcohol. ;D
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #140 on: May 11, 2012, 18:57 »
    i think l'quipe has made a desperate attempt to indicate association of doping where it doesn't really exist.

    i also would not be surprised, and i don't like the guy because he exerts some sort of sick interest in winning against substandard competition in gabon, but it's weird to suggest doping for something so small...

    The results do not lie. Contador's Clenbuterol level was small enough to be called tiny but it still got him suspended. Charteau's level of corticoids was above the level produced by the body. If a doctor was injecting his knee with cortisone Manzano-style then it just showed up and it's too much.

    He must now explain what happened to the French federation. The online version of L'Equipe at least was pretty straight about that. They didn't even want to call it a positive, which I find surprising.
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #141 on: May 11, 2012, 19:25 »
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #143 on: May 11, 2012, 20:48 »
    UCI confirms no passport controls for Amgen Tour of California

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-no-passport-controls-for-amgen-tour-of-california

    No pizes for guessing why it is considered a good preparation race for Le Tour.... ::)
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #144 on: May 11, 2012, 21:09 »
    No pizes for guessing why it is considered a good preparation race for Le Tour.... ::)

    For sure and it does raise a few questions over those competing there with the exception of USA based sponsored teams?*

    Is it possible for anti doping agencies to test during events? Could AFLD test any of the French riders during a race or would that be stepping on UCI toes?



    *I presume it is not a WT race (UCI America Tour 2.HC)
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  • mew

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #145 on: May 12, 2012, 19:54 »
    not sure if this is posted somewhere else...admin or mods feel free to delete or move

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11852/Source-says-Bruyneel-was-served-with-a-subpoena-by-federal-investigators.aspx
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  • usedtobefast

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #146 on: May 15, 2012, 04:21 »


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  • DinZ

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #147 on: May 16, 2012, 06:20 »
    L'Equipe headline

    "Turgot on borrowed time?"

    Paris-Roubaix runner-up S. Turgot faces possible suspension for 3 missed anti-doping controls
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #148 on: May 16, 2012, 08:11 »
    That has implications for Europcar. might people see voeckler and Roland zooming it up the alpes a bit more scepticaly now where?
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #149 on: May 16, 2012, 08:15 »
    That has implications for Europcar. might people see voeckler and Roland zooming it up the alpes a bit more scepticaly now where?

    it is the 2nd Europcar rider in the last 3 weeks to have suspicious issues around them re doping 
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