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hiero

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #1710 on: December 19, 2016, 18:27 »
Attention-seeking, much?
These people drag the name of proper hackers through the mud.

I think they were very disappointed at the lack of reaction to their "revelations". They just don't seem to "get it" that they didn't really reveal very much.

Along the same lines, but in reverse, further proof that Brailsford is, in some ways, an idiot:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-says-mysterious-package-contained-legal-drug-fluimucil

It fluimucil is what it was, and they had just said that YEARS ago now, this would never have been a big deal. They might have had a bit of controversy, and it would have been done and over. As it is, by being so secretive, he guaranteed it to be a continuing source of bad PR.

Being fluimucil, though, it still shows that Sky has been doing what some of us have been saying, playing legal, but pushing the envelope to the very limits.  IMO, pushing the envelope so far that they essentially pushed it into the realm of UNethical behavior. Just over the line, but still, over the line.
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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1711 on: December 30, 2016, 08:27 »
    I think they were very disappointed at the lack of reaction to their "revelations". They just don't seem to "get it" that they didn't really reveal very much.
    Sorry not sorry that the average cycling fan is much more cynical and far from as easily incensed than the average US voter ... :P

    Along the same lines, but in reverse, further proof that Brailsford is, in some ways, an idiot:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-says-mysterious-package-contained-legal-drug-fluimucil

    It fluimucil is what it was, and they had just said that YEARS ago now, this would never have been a big deal. They might have had a bit of controversy, and it would have been done and over. As it is, by being so secretive, he guaranteed it to be a continuing source of bad PR.
    Yes, it's been a PR nightmare. Always thought Brailsford was smarter than this - and the whole thing makes a mockery of their claim of transparency.

    Being fluimucil, though, it still shows that Sky has been doing what some of us have been saying, playing legal, but pushing the envelope to the very limits.  IMO, pushing the envelope so far that they essentially pushed it into the realm of UNethical behavior. Just over the line, but still, over the line.
    Of course they have. They've said so all along - they use everything that isn't explicitly illegal. The question is if they have (inadvertently or deliberately) used things that are explicitly illegal.
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    hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1712 on: December 30, 2016, 15:27 »
    Sorry not sorry that the average cycling fan is much more cynical and far from as easily incensed than the average US voter ... :P
    Yes, it's been a PR nightmare. Always thought Brailsford was smarter than this - and the whole thing makes a mockery of their claim of transparency.
    Of course they have. They've said so all along - they use everything that isn't explicitly illegal. The question is if they have (inadvertently or deliberately) used things that are explicitly illegal.

    Avg US voter: oy, I don't want to go there. AFAIC, Trump is serious bad news.

    Transparency: well, I suppose that is so. Not quite the way I would think of it, but still this sure wasn't transparent, and they haven't been very open. Quite the opposite, which I suppose does "make a mockery . . ."

    That last bit - yup - concisely said. But I'm not convinced everyone thinks that is the question. I'm pretty sure a lot of heat is because some people think that where they are pushing the envelope to is immoral, although maybe not illegal.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1713 on: December 30, 2016, 23:40 »
    Ok - and now for something new. Do you remember the knights who say Ni?

    Back to seriousness for a min. Mostly, I consider the VN podcasts rather vapid. However, THIS one:
    https://soundcloud.com/user-562497687/fast-talk-ep-9-three-physiologists-walk-into-a-studio

    I have to regard as juicy and full of info. At approx min 39 they are discussing "extended peaking". I highly recommend the whole conversation, beginning to end. In many ways, nothing has changed since I was racing some 30 years ago. On the other hand, some things have made massive strides of progress - like clinical testing. And, for that matter, power meters. Didn't exist when I raced. I used a heart meter and a cadence meter.

    This is very related to the dark side, at least since the advent of EPO, since the dark side improvements starting with EPO have been enhancements of physical limits. Oh, phooey, that doesn't say it well.

    Well, speed, and steroids, are of a different class of improvement than EPO and growth hormones. And I'm not sure how to classify same.

    NVM that - go listen to the podcast. It is all about legit training, but I found it very interesting.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1714 on: January 24, 2017, 10:40 »
    it has just been announced by German NADA, that a Christoph S. tested positive for Epo in June 2015:

    http://www.nada.de/de/recht/ergebnismanagement-disziplinarverfahren/nadajus-datenbank
    -> Verband -> Bund Deutscher Radfahrer -> Filtern -> Juni 2015

    there's nothing official yet as German NADA does not publish full names, but according to some sources this is former #vorarlberg rider Christoph Springer.

    Problem with this case (which for whatever reason was published so late) is, that he retired from pro cycling in October 2015 and joined #roth Roth-Skoda as a team manager, most likely fully aware of his positive test...

    http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_96000.htm
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1715 on: January 24, 2017, 10:44 »
    Problem with this case (which for whatever reason was published so late) is, that he retired from pro cycling in October 2015 and joined #roth Roth-Skoda as a team manager, most likely fully aware of his positive test...
    Oops.

    Did the Roth-Skoda mugwumps know about it as well, or were they had?
    I'm inclined to put more faith in the former.
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1716 on: January 26, 2017, 14:04 »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38744846

    Other than being the subject of speculation and logical condundra, Usain Bolt is not usually mentioned on these boards. And this story would ordinarily have passed me by, except...

    Methylhexaneamine - the substance detected in Carter's retest - is the same substance that almost caused Rui and Mario Costa to be banned in 2010.

    Interestingly, WADA's classification of methylhexaneamine was adjusted in 2011.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/costa-case-reflected-in-2011-wada-prohibited-list/

    The Costas, of course, ended up returning to competition in the spring of 2011 after being "provisionally suspended" for a few months.
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  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1717 on: January 26, 2017, 14:10 »
    Interestingly, WADA's classification of methylhexaneamine was adjusted in 2011.
    "Oh sh*t, people actually take this stuff! Let's make it legal quickly!" :shh
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  • cj2002

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1718 on: January 26, 2017, 14:36 »
    "Oh sh*t, people actually take this stuff! Let's make it legal quickly!" :shh

    Only out of competition... The Costas' argument was "contaminated supplement"[1], and they weren't the only ones around that time.
     1. Isn't it always..?!
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1719 on: January 28, 2017, 08:09 »
    Oops.

    Did the Roth-Skoda mugwumps know about it as well, or were they had?
    I'm inclined to put more faith in the former.

    well, before him it was Roberto Marchetti managing the team. So - although it couldn't really get any worse - the Roth guys seem to be either blind, or there are a lot of things they don't want to see
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1720 on: January 28, 2017, 09:50 »
    well, before him it was Roberto Marchetti managing the team. So - although it couldn't really get any worse - the Roth guys seem to be either blind, or there are a lot of things they don't want to see
    Yeah, the team evolved from Marchiol-Emisfero, the amateur team that acted as farm team for Liquigas.
    Former Marchiol riders are a.o. Michele Scarponi (no introduction needed) and Gianni da Ros - he of the 20-year ban for trafficking doping substances (that was later shortened to four years).
    So, yeah ...
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    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1725 on: February 10, 2017, 10:58 »
    Did someone mention the Daily Mail?

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website

    :fp  :lol

    Nice :D

    Matt seems to have the inside info on here though

    also put it in the Gen News as it fits in about 4 different threads  :lol
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  • just some guy

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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1727 on: February 10, 2017, 15:48 »
    http://www.velonews.com/2017/02/news/four-riders-snared-anti-doping-week_430462
    *co José Flober Peña Peña (EPO), 4-year ban
    *co José Daniel Bernal Garcia (EPO), 4-year ban
    *co Giovanny Manuel Baez Alvarez (EPO), 4-year ban

    Compared to the other two, Baez (#epm 2010-2013) is practically a spring chicken at only 35 years of age - both Bernal and Peña are 43.

    Also, *ir Rahim Emami is provisionally suspended after testing positive for anabolic androgenic steroids at the Jelajah Malaysia. As it's the second positive within 12 months for #pky Pishgaman, the team also faces a suspension.
    It's not Emami's first ADRV either, he was suspended for two years 2011-2013 already - for clenbuterol.
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  • Joan

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1728 on: February 19, 2017, 20:59 »
    Michal Brázda +
    Jan Kovář +
    from last year's Whirlpool Author
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1731 on: March 24, 2017, 16:22 »
    Meanwhile, football continues to take anti-doping seriously.  :-x

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39383967
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1732 on: March 25, 2017, 19:51 »
    Meanwhile, football continues to take anti-doping seriously.  :-x

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39383967
    What are you talking about?

    There is no doping in football!!!
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1733 on: March 25, 2017, 21:44 »
    There is no doping in football!!!

    Well, Manchester City is an interesting case, Pep Guardiola, their manager, has served a ban for doping.

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1735 on: April 01, 2017, 08:44 »
    Saido Berahino: Drugs ban from a spiked drink, says Stoke striker


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39450446
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1736 on: April 01, 2017, 10:27 »
    Saido Berahino: Drugs ban from a spiked drink, says Stoke striker
    He should speak to Alex Rasmussen or Yoann Offredo.

    Eight weeks! That's not a ban, that's wagging a finger in his face while looking sternly.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1738 on: April 10, 2017, 16:02 »
    not really dark side, but where else could it fit...

    Usually #sangemini Manuel Bongiorno would drop out of the biological passport system in June (as he is not on a WT or PCT team anymore), but wants to continue with it voluntarily - but the UCI is not quite sure yet if it's possible or not, because he is the first rider ever to ask for that. Yes. The first :S

    http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/esclusive/sangemini-mgkvis-olmo-bongiorno-periodo-difficile-inverno-mi-permesso-riscoprire-la-mia-passione-la-bici/
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1739 on: April 10, 2017, 16:44 »
    Usually #sangemini Manuel Bongiorno would drop out of the biological passport system in June (as he is not on a WT or PCT team anymore), but wants to continue with it voluntarily - but the UCI is not quite sure yet if it's possible or not, because he is the first rider ever to ask for that.
    I can see why he'd want that - it makes him more "believable" to any possible future (ProConti/WorldTour) employees. And I don't see why it shouldn't be possible.

    As long as the costs of the whole thing are met (and that should be Bongiorno's responsibility), there's no reason why the UCI should deny this request.
    Some Conti teams (most famously #472 / #manzana) were/are part of the bio-passport as well. But that's a team-wide solution, covered from the team budget. If Bongiorno funds his own tests (be it from a sponsor, through crowdfunding or from his own pocket), where's the problem?
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