collapse


L'arri

  • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
  • Grand Tour Winner
  • *
  • Country: be
  • Posts: 7996
  • Liked: 6644
  • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
    • Dopeology.org
  • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #1860 on: February 19, 2018, 13:30 »
You gotta laugh at this mob, even when given a chance they still come up with a positive test.


Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 07:22
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/43109290

Meldonium? Over a year after it was banned? Many months after the moratorium on sanctions for the substance?  :lol :lol :lol

I read somewhere else that the Russian national fed for curling - yes, folks, there is one - complained that it was some sort of propaganda conspiracy.

Now I can think of lots of conspiracies across the whole spectrum from the banal to the otherworldly, but I would think that a doping positive for Team Flagless is the last thing the IOC would want to see.
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    Archieboy

    • Road Captain
    • Country: england
    • Posts: 1475
    • Liked: 372
    • Awards: 2018 Tour Prediction Champ2018 Vuelta Prediction Champ2018 Giro Prediction ChampSpring Classics Prediction Champ2014, 2015, 2017 Official Prediction Game Champ
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1861 on: February 24, 2018, 10:10 »
    And another one gets busted, bobsleigh woman now.  :-x
  • ReplyReply

  • M Gee

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1686
    • Liked: 1446
    • The user formerly known as hiero
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1862 on: February 25, 2018, 04:34 »
    RE: current status, IOC, Russia, doping.

    The IOC has given up any hope of being considered as a reasonable, rational, non-corrupt group. The news today

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/winter-olympics/43186278

    The IOC is willing to toss the sanctions away. EFF, they already did, just letting the Russkies compete at the same time they were banned.

    How effing corrupt is that. I'll tell ya how corrupt and hypocritical: beyond measure. This move by the IOC makes Pratchett's CMOT Dibbler look like a purveyor of the finest fresh butchered beef. When what is really there is half cardboard waste. The IOC is worse.

    MFG. WTF can be done to stick these prigs where it counts? Stupid, stupid, stupid. And, instead of getting better, in spite of protestations that they are doing so, we keep seeing more and deeper revelations of ugliness.


    aaarrgh. phuuuoo.  Gag.
  • ReplyReply
  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1863 on: March 02, 2018, 09:50 »
    Our dear Flo posted a link on the other side from Portuguese popular sports rag A Bola.

    Nothing one could really call new but it is current and it's out there:

    http://www.abola.pt/Nnh/Noticias/Ver/718622 (PT)

    Quote
    [A]ccording to a reliable source of A Bola, the result of the B sample was considered abnormal because it did not confirm the presence of Erythropoietin (EPO) with certainty; the B sample was not negative - it was simply inconclusive. André Cardoso and his counsel argue that the rider should therefore be acquitted and reimbursed for the time spent on suspension unable to compete.

    However, this is not the opinion of the Anti-Doping Foundation for Cycling (CADF), which claims there are grounds for suspension, and the case has been referred to the Antidoping Legal Service (LADS), an independent body of the UCI composed of subject matter experts and lawyers who preside over cases involving anti-doping rule violations. This publication is aware that the rider has requested through his representative that the suspension be lifted [pending a conclusion] and that CADF and LADS did not agree, instead keeping the rider on provisional suspension list.
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1864 on: March 21, 2018, 08:37 »
    The story of Ph Lecuisinier at #fdj and "le docteur Mabuse" - I don't have time to finish reading it tonight but will leave it here for others to read:

    http://www.liberation.fr/sports/2017/07/02/cyclisme-oui-j-ai-accepte-de-pieger-le-docteur-mabuse_1581096

    Back in November, Bernard 'Dr Mabuse' Sainz was remanded in prison pending trial and his lawyers have only just managed to get him out, L'Equipe reports today.

    Sainz is expected to face trial later this year in connection with hidden camera revelations broadcast by the French TV show Cash Investigation in 2016. The 74-year old, who was known to have been working with pro cyclists since the 1970s, already has a conviction for practising medicine without qualifications and a life ban from associating with sport.
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1865 on: March 23, 2018, 09:23 »
    Another whisper from the UCI's backpage PDF...

    https://twitter.com/DopeologyDotOrg/status/976915805777653760

    (Sorry for quoting myselves :P)
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11052
    • Liked: 6923
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1866 on: March 23, 2018, 15:27 »
    Another whisper from the UCI's backpage PDF...
    He's the Cristian Moreni of Argentina! :lol
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
    2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31324
    • Liked: 10901
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1868 on: April 12, 2018, 10:02 »
    Rèmy goes old skool

    :lol

    www.twitter.com/Velorooms/status/984096231399010304?s=20

    It must be particularly galling to Rostaing et al, after the Siskevicius feelgood story of last weekend brought the team far more publicity than it could generate in terms of results, to have to announce this coming from the guy they gave a second chance.

    Di Grégorio's 2012 arrest during the Tour didn't lead to charges, as everyone knows, but when he tried to get a ride for 2013, the native of Marseille discovered that he was intouchable, blacklisted. So he returned to his club roots, since VC La Pomme had put together a Conti team, and he found a slot there that would give him access to the French domestic circuit.

    So the rider got his massive head down and got on with the business of racing and his modest results along with those of other "lost boys" like Justin Jules probably helped the team get more invitations and perhaps even the name sponsors of today.

    Maybe Di G got a bit too comfortable with his relative anonymity, maybe he thought his story had been forgotten. He announced his retirement in September last year but returned this season on the strength of decent results. Lately he had been more visible than at any other time since his comeback.

    Maybe that uptick was explained by a recent indulgence in Darbepoetin (he might have downed tools for too long in winter thinking he was done with racing) or maybe he had been using it for a while but what we know from the scant information provided is that the testing was targeted, so someone had to have marked his card.
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10801
    • Liked: 11275
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1869 on: April 30, 2018, 09:45 »
    #astana Astana is shocked about the recent revelations of Lieuwe Westra, claiming he had taking cortisone for performance enhancing reasons throughout his career. “We’re shocked about the news and we want to make clear that at Astana Pro Team forbidden drugs are never and will never be provided to any rider. In case that the use of prohibited drugs really took place, Astana Team reserves the right to demand financial compensation from the rider, since the use of doping is strictly prohibited by the internal regulations of the team, which is signed by each rider.” :D

    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/astana-shocked-former-rider-lieuwe-westra-admits-faking-injury-receive-tues-377988
  • ReplyReply
  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6510
    • Liked: 3915
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1870 on: April 30, 2018, 09:57 »
    of course they are shocked.   Just shocked !!!  They knew nothing at all about this !!!!   :fp
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1871 on: April 30, 2018, 19:46 »
    With Karsten Kroon recently outed (search VR for him and his priceless omertà quotes in the past), it occurred to some bright spark at Het Nieuwsblad that the entire top 10 of the 2006 Flèche Wallonne now consists of confirmed dopers.



    Calling this its "Flop 10", the publication decided to 'phone up a rather reluctant Fabian Wegmann, who finished eleventh that day. The German had this to say:

    "Honestly, I find it quite funny that you call me now, but actually this is not something to laugh at. This is an especially sad conclusion and just another blow to cycling."

    https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180426_03484084 (NL)
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10801
    • Liked: 11275
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1873 on: May 02, 2018, 20:13 »
    Dutch newspaper AD, which broke the recent Kroon story, has revealed that Vacansoleil was generally abusing TUEs in 2009. Westra, Vierhouten, Hoogerland (out at last), Carrara and Dr Peter Janssen (him again) are all named.

    What I think this story reveals, perhaps more interestingly than yet another confirmation of what has been an open secret for years, is that Zonneveld and co. were probably close to a fairly big scoop here which was scuppered by several notable flip-flops, notably from Kroon and Hoogerland, who both agreed to talk and then backed off later.

    The net result was that there was no scoop left because more than half of it went missing, forcing AD to out people in piecemeal instead.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vacansoleil-team-accused-of-using-cortisone-tues-for-several-riders/
  • ReplyReply

  • AG

    • Monument Winner
    • *
    • Country: au
    • Posts: 6510
    • Liked: 3915
    • Awards: Winner, 2013 National Championships prediction gameFan of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1874 on: May 03, 2018, 04:07 »
    I find the Sagan - Dillier claim a little hard to swallow. 

    Sagan tried fairly hard to drop him at a few points along the way - and I cant think anyone could honestly believe that Sagan couldnt outsprint Dillier every time even if they raced every day for a year.   They are simply not in the same league.   Sagan didnt have to buy the race ...
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11052
    • Liked: 6923
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1875 on: May 03, 2018, 07:12 »
    I find the Sagan - Dillier claim a little hard to swallow. 

    Sagan tried fairly hard to drop him at a few points along the way - and I cant think anyone could honestly believe that Sagan couldnt outsprint Dillier every time even if they raced every day for a year.   They are simply not in the same league.   Sagan didnt have to buy the race ...
    I think the same.

    In my opinion, it's a case of 'projection' - someone believing all others to act in the same way as them. Were Westra in Sagan's situation, he would have made Dillier an offer to secure the win, so he thinks Sagan must naturally have done the same.
    It's not entirely out of the question that it may have happened anyway - why would Vino have needed to buy Kolobnev in LBL; Vino was the stronger rider, wasn't he? - but I see it more as a hypothesis with very little in the way of evidence than as the foregone conclusion Westra makes it out to be.
  • ReplyReply

  • Mellow Velo

    • Road Captain
    • Country: wales
    • Posts: 2231
    • Liked: 2296
    • Awards: 2015 CQ Vuelta Game winnerVelogames Classics Champion 20142013 CQ Ranking Giro Game
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1876 on: May 06, 2018, 08:01 »
     Well, I hate to say I told you so, but I called this guy's performance ridiculous, at the time.

    http://www.ciclismointernacional.com/gonzalo-najar-con-un-analitico-adverso-por-cera-en-la-vuelta-a-san-juan/

    Not that anyone should be surprised, given their track record.
  • ReplyReply
  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11052
    • Liked: 6923
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1877 on: May 07, 2018, 10:34 »
    Not that anyone should be surprised, given their track record.
    I don't think anybody is. :shh
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012

    pastronef

    • Road Captain
    • Country: it
    • Posts: 1090
    • Liked: 636
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1879 on: June 05, 2018, 21:01 »
    "twitter rumors" (so I take it with a pinch of salt ;) ) of a Colombian testosterone positive in Milano-Torino 2017

    4 months silent UCI ban this winter

    Milano-Torino Oct 5th
    Colombia Oroy Paz Feb 6th

    4 months

    https://www.twitter.com/cycling_troll/status/1004029569278488576
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11052
    • Liked: 6923
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1880 on: June 06, 2018, 08:53 »
    "twitter rumors" (so I take it with a pinch of salt ;) ) of a Colombian testosterone positive in Milano-Torino 2017

    4 months silent UCI ban this winter

    Milano-Torino Oct 5th
    Colombia Oroy Paz Feb 6th

    4 months

    https://www.twitter.com/cycling_troll/status/1004029569278488576
    The tweet appears to be disappeared again.

    The problem with this 'rumour' is:
    All of the Colombian riders who did the 2017 Milano-Torino had other races between that and the 2018 Oro y Paz - Tour of Turkey, Tour of Guangxi, Tour Down Under, or the Colombian championships.
    So none of them can reasonably have served a 'silent ban'!

    ... Unless one goes to the length of claiming that the ban was so silent that not even the authorities, race organisers & teams were aware of it.
    :S
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1881 on: June 06, 2018, 09:28 »
    The tweet appears to be disappeared again.

    The problem with this 'rumour' is:
    All of the Colombian riders who did the 2017 Milano-Torino had other races between that and the 2018 Oro y Paz - Tour of Turkey, Tour of Guangxi, Tour Down Under, or the Colombian championships.
    So none of them can reasonably have served a 'silent ban'!

    ... Unless one goes to the length of claiming that the ban was so silent that not even the authorities, race organisers & teams were aware of it.
    :S

    Testosterone would never attract such a short suspension and, since the Froome AAF, I'm not sure any Colombian riding today has the profile of "too big to test positive".

    The only way rider could sit out for such a short period would be if he had returned an abnormally high testosterone result, been asked to explain it, run further tests, served an auto-suspension in the meantime and had the UCI finally accept the outcome. And the only way you can call that a "ban" is if you have a very, very loose grip indeed on anti-doping issues.

    The above would tend to be borne out by a rather milder follow-up tweet:

    https://twitter.com/cycling_troll/status/1004124433123041280

    The individual may be sniggering and pointing at Nairo Quintana since, while apparently referring to a mid-season break, this earlier tweet ...

    https://twitter.com/cycling_troll/status/1004104818737238016

    ... also shows a very, very loose grip on mathematics.
  • ReplyReply

  • pastronef

    • Road Captain
    • Country: it
    • Posts: 1090
    • Liked: 636
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1882 on: June 06, 2018, 13:28 »
    the 4 months could be for Quintana.

    Oct 5th Milan-Turin
    Feb 6th Colombia Oro y Paz

    the other Colombian riders all raced before Feb 6th
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11052
    • Liked: 6923
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1883 on: June 06, 2018, 13:38 »
    The individual may be sniggering and pointing at Nairo Quintana since, while apparently referring to a mid-season break, this earlier tweet ...

    https://twitter.com/cycling_troll/status/1004104818737238016

    ... also shows a very, very loose grip on mathematics.
    Two months, three months ... who's counting? :dizzy

    There's a reason this particular 'person's Twitter handle is "cycling troll". That's all I will say.
  • ReplyReply

  • M Gee

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1686
    • Liked: 1446
    • The user formerly known as hiero
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1884 on: June 21, 2018, 15:52 »
    I was thinking about the Col de Portet, and the fact that apparently they are paving over the final section of ribinou (gravel road) on the last 8 km of the climb. Just had a thought on how much cycling has changed. Back in "the day", let's say in Anquetil's day, they used to say about doping - "How else do they expect us to do all these races without dope? It is inhuman." Or something to that effect. And back then, to make a living, you had to race most of the days in the year.

    Today, you can find riders who won't race for the better part of a year, due to injury or illness. Of course, that won't apply to most of the doms, but even there you'll find better riders who get a lot of slack if there is an issue. Assuming they eventually heal. At least, they can earn a living without racing 200 days a year. So they can get rest.

    So that aspect is markedly different.  That has changed. And what about the races the riders actually have to do? Have they changed? Yes, we know they have. Stage races, and grand tours in particular, get raced hard from the first start gun. Back in "the day", the peloton would ride the first hours of a race "piano", not actually racing until the final kilometers, when somebody would be watching. And, fewer of the doms would be at the peak levels we see today, so at a given level of competition the number of competitors was sparser. And today the athletic science is much advanced.
    On the other hand, the routes themselves were harder. Roads that are paved today were gravel then. And nobody has to fix their own machine.

    So, I have to wonder. When I complain, because they are paving over the final section of gravel on the Col de Portet this year, am I asking too much of the riders? By pressing for greater competitive value, am I encouraging drug use, because the race overall is simply too much? Or are things overall easier enough today that Anquetil's excuse is no longer valid? Or was it invalid back then - was it JUST an excuse, albeit in a different culture?
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1885 on: June 21, 2018, 20:18 »
    So, I have to wonder. When I complain, because they are paving over the final section of gravel on the Col de Portet this year, am I asking too much of the riders? By pressing for greater competitive value, am I encouraging drug use, because the race overall is simply too much? Or are things overall easier enough today that Anquetil's excuse is no longer valid? Or was it invalid back then - was it JUST an excuse, albeit in a different culture?

    There are probably too many factors to make a brief reply to this.

    Until well into the 1980s, riders raced a lot but trained relatively little. The science of performance wasn't understood, of course, but in practical terms there simply wasn't much money to be earned while training.

    However, once it was understood that there were measurable and significant advantages to be gained from equipment, nutrition and training, the approach to and investment in, the professional sport necessarily had to evolve.

    When the stakes are raised in that sort of environment, the idea of risk attains ever greater importance. It follows that riders and their paymasters wanted to take less risks or at least to measure and control them.

    In this way, individualism eventually trumped the notion of pure spectacle on which the sport was founded. The rider of old wants to increase his earning opportunities through prize and appearance money while the modern rider expects a greater return on investment if he trains more intelligently, chooses his battles wisely and wins bigger, a fairly sophisticated sort of risk management.

    The tension that exists in today's pro cycling usually always originates in the pull and push of these opposing forces of spectacle and risk management. What many fans want or what most riders privately prefer. Challenging conditions or safe passage. Time-worn ribinou or this year's fresh asphalt.

    Drug use needn't automatically have been a direct influence on either side of that equation but historically it has influenced both sides. It is, in other words, a constant. A method of survival evolves into a potential advantage. Likewise the morals. If it was an excuse then, it is still an excuse today and if they say they needed it back then to be competitive, then they probably still say they need it now.
  • ReplyReply

  • M Gee

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1686
    • Liked: 1446
    • The user formerly known as hiero
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1886 on: June 22, 2018, 00:20 »
    There are probably too many factors to make a brief reply to this.

    Of course!  :lol

    Until well into the 1980s, riders raced a lot but trained relatively little. The science of performance wasn't understood, of course, but in practical terms there simply wasn't much money to be earned while training.

    True, but also not even while racing. It was just MORE while racing, and NONE while training, eh?

    However, once it was understood that there were measurable and significant advantages to be gained from equipment, nutrition and training, the approach to and investment in, the professional sport necessarily had to evolve.

    Ah, yes. True, except that I think you should spell "advantages" like this: $$$$$. The economics factor.

    When the stakes are raised in that sort of environment, the idea of risk attains ever greater importance. It follows that riders and their paymasters wanted to take less risks or at least to measure and control them.

    In this way, individualism eventually trumped the notion of pure spectacle on which the sport was founded. The rider of old wants to increase his earning opportunities through prize and appearance money while the modern rider expects a greater return on investment if he trains more intelligently, chooses his battles wisely and wins bigger, a fairly sophisticated sort of risk management.

    The tension that exists in today's pro cycling usually always originates in the pull and push of these opposing forces of spectacle and risk management. What many fans want or what most riders privately prefer. Challenging conditions or safe passage. Time-worn ribinou or this year's fresh asphalt.

    Your idea of considering risk management in this context is interesting.

    Drug use needn't automatically have been a direct influence on either side of that equation but historically it has influenced both sides. It is, in other words, a constant. A method of survival evolves into a potential advantage. Likewise the morals. If it was an excuse then, it is still an excuse today and if they say they needed it back then to be competitive, then they probably still say they need it now.

    Yes, to a degree, but I think this misses my point. But, ok, because I think the "Time-worn ribinou or this year's fresh asphalt." comment DOES catch the point. At the simplest level, then, when a rider faces more risk, or difficulty, the attraction of an artificial aid is increased. And, in that regard, 8 km of ribinou, or not, is a pretty small deal. The early promoters certainly looked for WWE-worthy entertainment value. 8 km of gravel would not have qualified.


  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7996
    • Liked: 6644
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1887 on: June 22, 2018, 10:34 »
    Yes, to a degree, but I think this misses my point. But, ok, because I think the "Time-worn ribinou or this year's fresh asphalt." comment DOES catch the point. At the simplest level, then, when a rider faces more risk, or difficulty, the attraction of an artificial aid is increased. And, in that regard, 8 km of ribinou, or not, is a pretty small deal. The early promoters certainly looked for WWE-worthy entertainment value. 8 km of gravel would not have qualified.

    There was no asphalt at all on most of the cols until relatively recently. What there is today on the uppermost slopes of the Finestre was the norm or better than the norm right down to the valley.

    So in that regard, race promoters had in mind a more basic idea of crossing mountains and suffering at altitude. The lack of decent road surfaces wasn't a factor in itself. Today it is for the spectacle.
  • ReplyReply

  • M Gee

    • Road Captain
    • Country: us
    • Posts: 1686
    • Liked: 1446
    • The user formerly known as hiero
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1888 on: June 22, 2018, 16:33 »
    There was no asphalt at all on most of the cols until relatively recently. What there is today on the uppermost slopes of the Finestre was the norm or better than the norm right down to the valley.

    So in that regard, race promoters had in mind a more basic idea of crossing mountains and suffering at altitude. The lack of decent road surfaces wasn't a factor in itself. Today it is for the spectacle.

    By "recently" - at least for the Cols used by the TdF, I'm thinking 60's - 70's. With cols added and tarmaced since then, as well. Jobst Brandt recorded rides through the Alps, and I don't recall but a few references to gravel. Whereas photos of those same roads in the 40's show gravel. Maybe I'm wrong, no prob, I'm going off memory, not deep research.

    However, your last statement - that road surfaces aren't a factor - but for the spectacle? I have to disagree. A mere 8 km - perhaps - but I would still argue that small section could be an extra selection factor in a race. In last year's worlds, in the TT, they threw in that hill - and the choice to switch bikes or not made some difference in the results. And, if road surfaces were not a factor, then why are the cobbles so selective? It adds something to the calculations, and to what sort of rider can make that section selective. It means there is a greater chance the stage will not be a "one-blow monoclimb", and certain people won't be complaining about how boring the stage is, eh?

    At least, that is MY reasoning, and why I was excited that there would be a bit of gravel at the end. Tire selections would have to be a bit heavier - or the rider takes the risk of a flat. Maybe they arrange a bike swap, who knows? So, yeah, a bit of spectacle, but not JUST spectacle. I think calling such spectacle demeans what the riders have to do. If it was JUST for the PT Barnum bunk and spectacle, or the WWE bunk and drama,  I would hope my BS radar would activate. I would hope I would not care for it.
  • ReplyReply

  • search

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10801
    • Liked: 11275
    • Awards: Member of the year 2016Post of the year 2016KeithJamesMC 2016Member of the year 20152012 CQ Ranking Tour GameAvatar of the Year 2013
    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1889 on: June 26, 2018, 11:02 »
    Our dear Flo posted a link on the other side from Portuguese popular sports rag A Bola.

    Nothing one could really call new but it is current and it's out there:

    http://www.abola.pt/Nnh/Noticias/Ver/718622 (PT)

    Four months later (and one year after the positive sample), things are still unresolved. LADS is currently reviewing the case and Cardoso has time until mid Juli to bring up arguments in his defense. The UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal may then come to a conclusion

    https://www.abola.pt/Nnh/Noticias/Ver/736356
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    * Dark Side Chatbox

    Sorry, this shoutbox does not exist.


    Top
    Back to top