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L'arri

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #1890 on: June 26, 2018, 14:32 »
Four months later (and one year after the positive sample), things are still unresolved. LADS is currently reviewing the case and Cardoso has time until mid Juli to bring up arguments in his defense. The UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal may then come to a conclusion

https://www.abola.pt/Nnh/Noticias/Ver/736356

Thanks for this. Nice to have an update. :) A Bola is probably right to spin it as "still no outcome" but, to me at least, it does look like things are moving that way at last.

The thing I don't get, indeed have never got, is this: if the B-sample was genuinely "inconclusive" why was CADF so adamant about not letting him go? As usual, we don't really know.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1891 on: June 26, 2018, 14:54 »
    Watching the construction from afar of the International Testing Agency (ITA), it looks like a dizzying edifice of integrity indeed.

    For those who haven't heard about it yet, the ITA is the IOC's big idea in the wake of the Russian doping scandal: an independent anti-doping testing and administrative authority based in Lausanne.

    You may recall that there's already a WADA-affiliated anti-doping lab in Lausanne. It's rock solid, almost three decades old, run by the university there and often handles pro cycling samples. It also has nothing to do with the ITA, which you can think of as being more like the UCI's CADF in character and relationships: despite the name, the ITA is not a lab.

    Given that the ITA's founding principle is independence, from (inter)national sports authorities and supposedly the IOC itself, you'd be forgiven for a raising an eyebrow at the newly-minted Board: three of the five members are IOC officials. Director Benjamin Cohen says "to be honest, I don’t see it as a major issue" (source), so that's all fine, then.

    Working with ITA is voluntary for sports authorities. Some have committed to it already, others have even considered outsourcing their entire anti-doping activities to it. The details are not completely clear yet.

    As for pro cycling, it seems unlikely that the UCI would feel the need to change much in favour of these developments and it's of limited interest to cycling fans except perhaps for the choice of French politician Valérie Fourneyron as Chairwoman. Fourneyron, you may recall, made a splash back in 2013 with her Senate Report on the 1998 Tour de France EPO positives and her subsequent, rather conflicted comments about the sport.

    We should know more in due course but things are certainly moving for the ITA with the Board now fully appointed. Watch this independently managed space.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1892 on: June 26, 2018, 15:41 »
    . . .

    Given that the ITA's founding principle is independence, from (inter)national sports authorities and supposedly the IOC itself, you'd be forgiven for a raising an eyebrow at the newly-minted Board: three of the five members are IOC officials. Director Benjamin Cohen says "to be honest, I don’t see it as a major issue" (source), so that's all fine, then.

     . . .
    Riiiight, then. ;);) nudge, nudge!.  Oh, and, I'll take the Hitch-sized container of pickle juice with that order, please!
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  • . . .He had the bit between his teeth, and he loiked the taste, mate . . .

    search

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1893 on: June 28, 2018, 10:09 »
    oups

    #movistar Jaime Roson provisionally suspended for passport violations in 2017 (when he was still at Caja Rural)

    https://twitter.com/Movistar_Team/status/1012259350222639104
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1894 on: June 28, 2018, 15:09 »
    oups

    #movistar Jaime Roson provisionally suspended for passport violations in 2017 (when he was still at Caja Rural)

    https://twitter.com/Movistar_Team/status/1012259350222639104

    Rosón came into #cajarural during its purple 2015 season and there were high expectations of him in Spain. He did well in two full seasons there but in 2017, when his values are alleged to have been irregular, he was also very consistent and that probably helped to clinch his WT deal.

    Presumably he started his ABP on or just before joining this Pro Continental team. We know that he was at the end of his first winter at senior level when he recorded the values in question, just ahead of competition. He was racing by the last week of January but had a pretty uneven first week in the peloton (FWIW three DNFs and a very commendable 12th place on an uphill finish).
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  • search

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1895 on: June 28, 2018, 19:21 »
    Movistar was notified in April, so that explais why he was taken out of the Giro squad (and replaced by Fernandez) I guess

    https://as.com/ciclismo/2018/06/28/mas_ciclismo/1530177789_606546.html

    He still went on to win in Aragon though...
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1896 on: June 28, 2018, 22:05 »
    Movistar was notified in April, so that explais why he was taken out of the Giro squad (and replaced by Fernandez) I guess

    https://as.com/ciclismo/2018/06/28/mas_ciclismo/1530177789_606546.html

    He still went on to win in Aragon though...

    Indeed and it seems already to be in the hands of CAS if this article is to be believed so the case is hardly going as slow as first thought.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1897 on: July 23, 2018, 07:58 »
    Nice plug for L'arri here.  :cool  :snooty

    https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1021279745403736064


    ...or Andy Smith, as it were.

    Who dat?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1898 on: July 23, 2018, 12:26 »
    Nice plug for L'arri here.  :cool  :snooty

    ...or Andy Smith, as it were.

    Who dat?
    Indeed. Who is Andy Smith? :S

    Great piece by him, whoever he is, and I like how he, in his academic, read-between-the-lines way, says exactly what he thinks of Froome's acquittal by WADA.
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    search

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    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1900 on: July 24, 2018, 20:26 »
    missed that

    Ryan Lochte banned 14 months for doping violation revealed on Instagram

    Spoiler (hover to show)
    That qualifies for a Darwin Award, Athletes' Edition. :fp
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1901 on: July 25, 2018, 00:04 »
    That qualifies for a Darwin Award, Athletes' Edition. :fp

    His only problem is, he chose the wrong sport.



    "Cocktails"  :S
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  • rote_laterne

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1902 on: July 25, 2018, 19:37 »
    That qualifies for a Darwin Award, Athletes' Edition. :fp

    This is real? I thought it was a dumb joke.  :S
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1903 on: July 25, 2018, 21:26 »
    This is real? I thought it was a dumb joke.  :S
    It is really real.

    You wouldn't think an Olympic athlete could be that badly advised, but there you go.
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  • AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1904 on: July 26, 2018, 00:31 »
    seriously ???

    I knew he wasnt the sharpest tool int he shed - but that is another level again.   :fp  :fp  :fp
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1905 on: July 26, 2018, 04:47 »
    seriously ???

    I knew he wasnt the sharpest tool int he shed - but that is another level again.   :fp  :fp  :fp
    :lol
    Like he said, Darwin award!  ;)
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1906 on: July 28, 2018, 00:04 »
    I am posting this in the Dark Side, because it shares a great deal in common with the Dark Side techniques over the past 20 years, but it is NOT truly Dark Side. We don't have a "Clinic", but it would fall under that description. So, you ask, WTF am I on about? What's my point? Somewhere, in some interview during this year's Tour, someone said they were using ultrasound to measure the amount of glycogen recovery in Dumoulin's muscle tissue.

    And, THAT, my friend, is big news. Glycogen storage and recovery is a primary issue in long efforts (one-day), and in multi-day stage races. It is a huge issue - and to my knowledge, historically there has BEEN no medical technique to measure this. But glycogen availability is such a big issue, I think being able to measure it would be on the same level of "marginal gains" as some of the truly Dark Side pharmaceuticals employed. AFAIK, this is pretty cutting-edge stuff.

    At the same time - this would pass even my rigid moral standards of what is right and wrong - and easily so.
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  • AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1907 on: July 28, 2018, 01:11 »
    I dont have an issue with people using ultrasound to diagnose or measure something

    yes it will be very informative, and perhaps change some preparation dramatically ... but it isnt doping or cheating. 
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1908 on: July 28, 2018, 18:04 »
    I dont have an issue with people using ultrasound to diagnose or measure something

    yes it will be very informative, and perhaps change some preparation dramatically ... but it isnt doping or cheating
    Exactly my thoughts. I brought it here because it is a medical procedure, and cutting edge stuff, which is typically Dark Side material. All I found with a google was a reference to using ultrasound to scan livers and such for people who don't produce sufficient glycogen on a normal basis. But if it works, it can't be long at all before everyone will be using it - it would be that helpful for the GTs. If this works, it could also go a long way towards explaining how Dumoulin did so well this year at both the Giro AND the Tour. Not that it needs explaining - but doing the double does have the tradition of being next to impossible, and the last rider to do it WAS Dark Side.
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  • 58x11

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1909 on: July 29, 2018, 22:11 »
    and now the mystery comes... does this (new glycogen testing) suggest marginal skyborgs were beaten on their own turf? By some ordinary Dumo squad? Or simply Vroom managed do destroy himself in Giro way beyond repair (back to Tour winning level), and much worse than Tom.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1910 on: July 30, 2018, 10:13 »
    Nice plug for L'arri here.  :cool  :snooty

    https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1021279745403736064


    ...or Andy Smith, as it were.

    Who dat?

    Indeed. Who is Andy Smith? :S

    Great piece by him, whoever he is, and I like how he, in his academic, read-between-the-lines way, says exactly what he thinks of Froome's acquittal by WADA.

    I suppose I can tell you since he has broken cover a couple of times now over there. He is better known to many of us as Merckx Index. :D
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1911 on: July 30, 2018, 10:27 »
    Back in 2015, as a response to the country's difficult recent history, the Spanish anti-doping agency (AEPSAD) established its own bio-passport programme which, in pro cycling terms, runs in parallel with the UCI equivalent.

    Among other Spanish athletes, the programme is mandatory for CT-level riders who are not already covered by the UCI ABAP and, as news from the Tour tended to dominate the sporting headlines in the last couple of weeks, the first two cases of bio-passport irregularities were reported without much fanfare.

    The subjects of these cases are Ibai Salas #burgos and Vicente Garcia de Mateos who rides in Portugal for the present incarnation of Louletano and, in a measure equally notable for the silence around it until now as well as for its novelty, the riders have both been serving a three-month temporary suspension pending disciplinary proceedings.

    These suspensions presented big problems for the teams involved. Garcia had been planned to ride the Volta but for Burgos-BH the peril was greater: it had an invitation to ride the Vuelta but now faced a teamwide suspension because this was the third doping case to affect it within 18 months.

    And well you might wonder why I refer to the matter in the perfect tense. At the end of last week, the Spanish sports arbitration panel ruled that both riders would be allowed to ride again. Apparently, as well as keeping quiet about temporary suspensions, the AEPSAD programme did not provide a right to respond to charges before suspending the athlete, unlike the UCI model.

    It remains unclear whether or not the two riders will face further action in the future since this decision presumably does not invalidate the fact that they had both posted a succession of suspicious values in their passport-related tests.

    https://as.com/ciclismo/2018/07/28/mas_ciclismo/1532785115_055556.html (ES)
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1912 on: August 03, 2018, 20:54 »
    ... the first two cases of bio-passport irregularities were reported without much fanfare.

    The subjects of these cases are Ibai Salas #burgos and Vicente Garcia de Mateos who rides in Portugal for the present incarnation of Louletano ...

    These suspensions presented big problems for the teams involved. Garcia had been planned to ride the Volta but for Burgos-BH the peril was greater: it had an invitation to ride the Vuelta but now faced a teamwide suspension because this was the third doping case to affect it within 18 months.

    ...



    LOL, as they say... I can hear the AEPSAD bosses groaning from the other end of Europe.
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1913 on: August 05, 2018, 11:01 »
     Further to L'arri's posts, more stuff coming out of Portugal and involving Vicente Garcia de Mateos again, among many other.

     http://www.record.pt/modalidades/ciclismo/volta-a-portugal/detalhe/inedita-mega-operacao-antidoping-a-decorrer-na-volta-a-portugal.html

    Quote
    An anti-doping mega-operation carried out in the Tour of Portugal by the ADoP (Anti-Doping Authority of Portugal) brigades is taking place at this moment, Record said. A total of 41 cyclists, coming from six teams, are being checked for urine and a biological passport, in what is an unprecedented operation in this competition, with a control to be carried out immediately after a stage (in the case of the 3rd). Usually these operations took place at the beginning of the race or on the day of rest.

    The six teams controlled are RP-Boavista, Sporting-Tavira, W52-FC Porto, Aviveludo-Louletano, Efapel and Vito-Feirense-Blackjack.

    This could get a bit awkward.
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1914 on: August 05, 2018, 19:38 »
    They have regular doping testing too, and that is a bit of a challenge for very dehydrated riders and later test evaluation too. When you are very dehydrated it isn't really easy to pee, and after the first stage #coop Lois Bendixen collapsed in the doping control due to dehydration and kidney failure. I think I heard of strange results in such conditions before.    :S

    Just noted as I #coop was not on list of targeted teams but still target for testing.

    Of course, racing in conditions leading to such dehydration leading to kidney failure is quite debatable in itself (although not the topic of this thread)
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1915 on: August 05, 2018, 19:48 »
    Just checking some other sources:

    O jogo (a fotball centered paper but many portuguese teams are cycling branches of the big fotball clubs):

    Quote
    Este controlo é feito num "momento em que após uma etapa com intenso calor muitos valores das análises poderão estar completamente alterados", afirmou fonte de uma equipa a O JOGO.

    De acordo com uma fonte próxima da AdOP trata-se de uma operação "perfeitamente normal".

    Recorde-se que no ano passado foram controladas todas as equipas portuguesas no dia de descanso.

    https://www.ojogo.pt/modalidades/ciclismo/noticias/interior/operacao-anti-doping-na-volta-a-portugal-9679737.html

    Basically - nothing special, just an ordinary rest day OOT test. It also says that the values of many riders may be completely changed due to the heat.
    Also:  last year all the the portuguese teams were tested on rest day too.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1916 on: August 06, 2018, 09:00 »
    Just checking some other sources:

    O jogo (a fotball centered paper but many portuguese teams are cycling branches of the big fotball clubs):

    https://www.ojogo.pt/modalidades/ciclismo/noticias/interior/operacao-anti-doping-na-volta-a-portugal-9679737.html

    Basically - nothing special, just an ordinary rest day OOT test. It also says that the values of many riders may be completely changed due to the heat.
    Also:  last year all the the portuguese teams were tested on rest day too.

    The two CERA positives (from a foreign invitation team) in 2016 decided the authorities to step up controls, hence the extra attention since then. I don't know if the authorities only targeted the *pt domestic teams or whether that's an (un)intended distortion by local media but the sport is certainly overdue another shakeup there.
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1917 on: August 06, 2018, 12:21 »
    The two CERA positives (from a foreign invitation team) in 2016 decided the authorities to step up controls, hence the extra attention since then. I don't know if the authorities only targeted the *pt domestic teams or whether that's an (un)intended distortion by local media but the sport is certainly overdue another shakeup there.

    I read late last might in another portuguese paper's website: This is more than the standard rest-day testing procedure. All the same athletes from the same teams where tested once more on the first race day after the rest day. That is pretty extensive test programme. Stay tuned for the next episode.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1918 on: August 06, 2018, 15:47 »
    I read late last might in another portuguese paper's website: This is more than the standard rest-day testing procedure. All the same athletes from the same teams where tested once more on the first race day after the rest day. That is pretty extensive test programme. Stay tuned for the next episode.

    And there really should be a next episode with stuff like this going on right under the testers' noses:

    https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1026215168789938177
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  • search

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1919 on: August 08, 2018, 19:04 »
    Now I think I have a good guess (again :lol)!

    What about Roger Kluge of Mitchelton-Scott?

    The German pro whose 2010 "whereabouts" violation (actually two whereabouts and an alleged missed test) was only overruled more than a year and a half later.

    The only thing that doesn't check out on this one was that Kluge continued to race so he doesn't appear to have served any period of suspension. Perhaps that's because he appealed and thus was not subject to suspension while the case was reviewed.

    The plaintiff's claim was for lost profits, which I suppose could mean that he might have lost the opportunity of a more lucrative contract in the meantime while the case was still in progress.

    https://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Kluge-missed-test/

    the full sentence is available now:

    http://www.lareda.hessenrecht.hessen.de/lexsoft/default/hessenrecht_lareda.html#docid:8016718

    it clarifies that it's a former pro we are talking about, who was banned for one year in November 2011. According to the NADA Jahresbericht 2011 this goes back to a whereabouts violation committed in September 2010. The usually well informed Cycling4fans.de German Doping Archive lists this case with an athlete "N.N.", not named (which is usual for Germany, the names are not published by the Nada).

    That's all we have, I guess

    seems like it's not too spectacular in the end. In the depth of the NADA website, someone found an old sentence from 2010, which seems to be pretty much fitting.

    There's no full name given in there, but "Artur G." is not too unlikely to be a former #milram pro
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