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hiero

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #1770 on: August 17, 2017, 17:06 »
Oh, Samu...

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-samuel-sanchez-gonzalez/

He had said he would make a decision about the future of his career after the Vuelta. I guess he's already made his decision. Sad.
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  • Eeyore sez . . .

    AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1771 on: August 18, 2017, 10:18 »
     :o

    not that Samu would ... I wasnt really in much doubt .... but that the UCI would actually do a test - and find someone out.   :o

    I honestly thought they were trying so hard not to catch anyone.  Who thought they could fail at that too   :lol
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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1772 on: August 18, 2017, 14:00 »
    :o

    not that Samu would ... I wasnt really in much doubt .... but that the UCI would actually do a test - and find someone out.   :o

    I honestly thought they were trying so hard not to catch anyone.  Who thought they could fail at that too   :lol
    Cynic.
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  • Kiwirider

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1773 on: August 18, 2017, 15:01 »
    :o

    not that Samu would ... I wasnt really in much doubt .... but that the UCI would actually do a test - and find someone out.   :o

    I honestly thought they were trying so hard not to catch anyone.  Who thought they could fail at that too   :lol

    AG, did you read that interview with Floyd over at "Cut N-paste"? He had a comment that is really on point here:

    CN: So in your opinion little has changed?

    Landis: That's not opinion. That's educated fact. Nothing has changed. I mean you look at it. On the face of it, you can see it. They gave a bunch of guys who were about to retire suspensions. It didn't change anything and management stayed the same. If people want to believe that, it's fine. They can believe whatever they want. But if they want to know the truth, I'm here to tell them that's what the deal is.


    I realise (or assume at least) that he's talking about the guys from his own case, but Sanchez's case also fits this model to a tee ...

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1774 on: August 18, 2017, 15:25 »
    yeah, and we basically had the same with guys like Paolini, Menchov, Caruso and so on over the past years
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

    t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1775 on: August 18, 2017, 17:55 »
    AG, did you read that interview with Floyd over at "Cut N-paste"? He had a comment that is really on point here:

    CN: So in your opinion little has changed?

    Landis: That's not opinion. That's educated fact. Nothing has changed. I mean you look at it. On the face of it, you can see it. They gave a bunch of guys who were about to retire suspensions. It didn't change anything and management stayed the same. If people want to believe that, it's fine. They can believe whatever they want. But if they want to know the truth, I'm here to tell them that's what the deal is.


    I realise (or assume at least) that he's talking about the guys from his own case, but Sanchez's case also fits this model to a tee ...
    :angry
    Landis and the Rasmussen have some kind of competition going with regards to "who can spray more baseless accusations across the peloton" to make themselves look bigger. Now if they started supplying names and evidence and information that was possible to verify it would be of value to those who hope and work for a cleaner sport, but what they are actually doing is trying very hard to make everyone look as bad as themselves without offering anything verifiable at all to help anti-doping work.
     :angry
    I still don't respect any of them very much, but I respect the journalists and the editors that offer them a soapbox to shout from even less. Easiest thing in the world is to reprint unverifiable accusations and rumours. Journalism is conveying verified information, and journalists are those that work to verify the information before they publish it. The rest are cheap gossip-spreaders and hate-mongerers in my  opinion.  :angry
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1776 on: August 22, 2017, 07:07 »
    So where is David Drouin and why hasn't he ridden a single race for the team so far this year? That was the question I asked myself. College seemed a logical answer, but no it's a failed drugs test......

    :fp

    http://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/quebec-rider-david-drouin-fails-doping-test/

    he is still fighting, blaming his brother for the positive test

    https://sherbrooktimes.com/doping-the-sad-fall-of-a-beauceron/219
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1777 on: August 22, 2017, 08:30 »
    he is still fighting, blaming his brother for the positive test
    Hey, at least this brother of his actually exists. :P
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    hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1778 on: September 11, 2017, 15:39 »
    This VN article could fit in so many threads. Basically, it says Froome is not liked very well. And of course it mentions darkside suspicions about Froome and Sky as it looks at the issue. I thought is was worth bringing here, as I know I am not the only person with ambivalent feelings towards Froome.

    http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/vuelta-a-espana/british-media-shows-praise-little-fanfare-froome_447953
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1779 on: September 11, 2017, 18:27 »
    This VN article could fit in so many threads. Basically, it says Froome is not liked very well. And of course it mentions darkside suspicions about Froome and Sky as it looks at the issue. I thought is was worth bringing here, as I know I am not the only person with ambivalent feelings towards Froome.

    http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/vuelta-a-espana/british-media-shows-praise-little-fanfare-froome_447953

    Not shooting the messenger, but I really started out as rather neutral towards Froome. However, as time passes I have become more and more irritated at the level of criticism he is getting, relative to the evidence - as in there are other cyclists in the peloton that migth need some of the scrutiny that is, it seems, only given to Froome. Others, for which there are some evidence to support claims. What Froome constantly have to endure does not seem fair.

    The way I see it, he gets a poor reception, especially by Britons (compare with how cool they thought Wiggins was...) , as Froome happens to be thelate starting outsider in the class and gets best results on almost every test. He is cool about most accusations and criticisms being thrown at him (except maybe Aru attacking on Mont du Chat), and answers politely to both fair and non-fair criticisms and allegations. He even left the door open as to his own team's past practices: for others (read: Wiggins) to answer.

    The long time frequent repeat of the same accusations, at its most parodic it is now "look at how fast he is (on that ramp), he must be cheating!" without any more data offered as proof for the accusations, is wearing me out, I don't think it is funny to listen to that anymore. With these (almost) baseless accusations on endless repeat in the background, I will step up on this soapbox and call it what it is: Bullying!

    I don't support bullying (not in school, not at work, not in sports either) but I do support scrutiny of good sports performances. The dominance of Chris Froome in grand tours is not unusual when compared with other outdoor endurance sports. Now, that's arguably a mixed bag too, but sometimes one should just accept that the best rider with the best team will win - and hope that the anti-cheating methods and punishments are good enough to maintain fair competition in cycling.

    I expect this will trigger a long discussion about where Brazilian, Portuguese, Azeri, Khasaka and Iranian cycling is going as well as the conflicts about anti-doping between Nairo Quintana and other top riders and the Columbian federation. My point is that there is some evidence to suggest a cultural problem there. There isn't really that much, when it comes to Froome, although Sky as a team has some stories, to be fair.

    So there, Froome isn't even my favorite rider (a proven cheater-by-car is more like it :( ) but he gets my sympathy because of the bullying and nerd-bashing he is constantly facing.

    I do confess, , I have taken part in such activities in the past, and I am not proud of it. I have decided I won't do it again, and I will try to stop it when I see others being bullied. I am against bullying, period! That is more important than cycling.

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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1780 on: September 12, 2017, 00:29 »
    . . .

    I do confess, , I have taken part in such activities in the past, and I am not proud of it. I have decided I won't do it again, and I will try to stop it when I see others being bullied. I am against bullying, period! That is more important than cycling.

    Whilst I agree about bullying, I am not convinced Froome is that much a victim. I often, like yourself, get tired of the unending and deep cycnicism that so often prevails today. However, my cynicism towards Froome grows, rather than diminishes.

    One of the real problems is that I think that Froome and Sky are doing something - but whatever it is - is not yet against anti-doping rules. Sky and Froome just have too many stories with answers that were non-answers. At least part of why Bradley manages to avoid that is because he was a Brit sports hero before there WAS Sky. And, BW and Cav made is a point to be very anti-doping back when they were merely trackies.

    Froome's, and Brailsford's, lapses are too well remarked for me to rehash them at this point.

    Regardless, I also have attempted to censure myself when it comes to uttering Eeyore-like pronouncements on Froome's status at any given moment. Less negativity, dude!  :D
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1781 on: September 15, 2017, 14:03 »
     Reading hiero's post above. If we are looking for victims, I give you this.
    Probably one of the saddest and sickening examples one can imagine. 
    How when a lifelong doper finds it impossible to re-set their moral compass, it impacts others around him.
    In this case, with tragic consequences.

    https://cyclingtips.com/2017/09/doping-rumsas-investigated-sons-death/
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  • "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

    riding too slowly

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1782 on: September 17, 2017, 21:47 »
    ....................And, BW and Cav made is a point to be very anti-doping back when they were merely trackies.

    I think you will find that this statement is not closeley related to facts.  Brad has on record a single outburst, which went so well with the wind at the time.  Far closer to the mark were his words to his fellow six rider at Gent; that oh so nice Mr Rob Hayles.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1783 on: September 18, 2017, 00:13 »
    I think you will find that this statement is not closeley related to facts.  Brad has on record a single outburst, which went so well with the wind at the time.  Far closer to the mark were his words to his fellow six rider at Gent; that oh so nice Mr Rob Hayles.

    I don't know that one - please enlighten me with a link. I certainly won't claim to be an expert on what they did or said - but I seem to recall that they both initially avoided road racing - and made statements to the effect - because of the association with dopage.

    But, again, this is not an area where I will claim expertise. Work with me here, at least I've come to the Darkside to keep you company for a change! Don't want ya feeling lonely, ya know.
     ;)
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  • Joan

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1784 on: September 24, 2017, 22:51 »
     :-x Pozdnyakov's case is kept as a secret in Azerbaijan, so far no reports, no press releases. Poz' photos remain on websites of federation and race organiser. The federation seems to be afraid to lose its federal funding after the second positive case.
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1785 on: October 01, 2017, 18:49 »
    I don't know that one - please enlighten me with a link. I certainly won't claim to be an expert on what they did or said - but I seem to recall that they both initially avoided road racing - and made statements to the effect - because of the association with dopage.

    But, again, this is not an area where I will claim expertise. Work with me here, at least I've come to the Darkside to keep you company for a change! Don't want ya feeling lonely, ya know.
     ;)

    Yes Brad avoided the road and headed for the track.  The six day scene was/is a hotbed of doping. 
    Brad was into the six day scene from the very earliest stage of his career.  His partner of choice was Rob Hayles, another who had aimed straight for the six days.  Legend has it one partner got very upset with the other for not preparing to the max for an event like he had done.  Where was his committement ?  And no, it was not Mr 53% who was doing the talking. 

    http://www.veloveritas.co.uk/2015/11/21/kris-tolmie-london-six-day-2015/
    Scroll down and you will get a nice picture of Cav and Kris Tolmie.  Kris Tolmie is the alias of Angus Fraser.  Google Angus Fraser and say Chris Carmichael or Angus Fraser and Martin Vinnicombe. 

    Yes, that article is typical of the BS the cycling journos feed the fans.   

    Oh did someone say that Rob Hayles had a very high natural haematocrit ?
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  • Mellow Velo

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1786 on: October 03, 2017, 13:40 »
    Rumsas's other son Raimondas Jr has tested positive for some sort of Growth Hormone (on September 4).
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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1787 on: October 03, 2017, 22:15 »
    Rumsas's other son Raimondas Jr has tested positive for some sort of Growth Hormone (on September 4).

    VN article on the topic here.

    Some people never learn. Rumsas AND his wife must still think Lance has 7 #yellow. And that everybody does it. And all that stuff. A bit mind-blowing.
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  • Echoes

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1788 on: October 04, 2017, 08:38 »
    Some would like to move on and forget about that Texan guy but they are constantly reminded of him ... by his haters. How ironic ... He's been made a legend, just because of you.
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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1789 on: October 06, 2017, 16:37 »
    more worries for the Silver Fox. #androni Alessio Taliani tested positive. Back in August :S

    http://sport.repubblica.it/news/sport/ciclismo-doping-trovato-positivo-taliani/4697043

    4 years for Taliani

    http://www.nadoitalia.it/it/home-it/news/archivio-comunicati/12261-seconda-sezione-alessio-taliani-tesserato-fci-squalificato-4-anni.html

    ...and a nice funny statement by #androni Androni:

    Quote
    (gt)

    Regarding the decision taken by Alessio Taliani for having been found to be positive in Triamcinolone Acetonide, a permitted substance contained in the Nasacort spray, during the Giro of Portugal on August 4, 2016, we shall state the following.

    1- The company was informed of the positivity in February of the current year. Therefore, in keeping with the internal rules of the team, although no TNA precautionary suspension had occurred, just for the modest amount exceeding the normal tolerability, 36 nanograms per milliliter instead of 30 nanograms milliliters, the athlete was immediately suspended from the activity in order to provide him with adequate defense, without giving notice of the incident for reasons of confidentiality and privacy.

    2- In practice, except for the two races run in February - Gran Prix of Donoratico and Trophy Laigueglia - the rider did not participate in any other race of the Cycling Cup.

    3- Taking note of the verdict received today from the 2 nd section of the CONI TNA - which deals with Mr. Alessio Taliani disqualification for four years - the athlete is dismissed in trunk for a just cause.

    4. Similarly, all initiatives resulting from the signing of internal regulations will be undertaken.

    http://www.androniteam.it/merito-alla-positivita-riscontrata-lo-scorso-anno-ad-alessio-taliani/

    so they immediately suspended him in February...

    Spoiler (hover to show)
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1790 on: October 06, 2017, 19:24 »
    ...and a nice funny statement by #androni Androni:

    http://www.androniteam.it/merito-alla-positivita-riscontrata-lo-scorso-anno-ad-alessio-taliani/

    so they immediately suspended him in February...

    Spoiler (hover to show)
    :lol

    "We earned our Giro wildcard fair and square! The moment we heard of his misdeeds, we banned this traitorous doper from participating in further rounds of the Ciclismo Cup; and the two rounds he did take part in were in February, so they hardly count."


    I wonder if Taliani scored any points towards Androni's Ciclismo Cup win in those two races? Even if he didn't, he will have raced in support of those who did.
    Do you know if #androni would have won the Ciclismo Cup even if their points from the first two rounds were struck? If yes, then all is fine. If not, then ... well, I guess the Giro isn't going to de-invite them from the 2018 for a doping case that happened in February 2017.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1791 on: October 06, 2017, 19:52 »
    Do you know if #androni would have won the Ciclismo Cup even if their points from the first two rounds were struck?.

    yeah, with ease

    https://legaciclismoprof.org/coppa-italia-campionato-italiano-a-squadre-2/ciclismo-cup-2017-classifica-a-squadre/
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1792 on: October 06, 2017, 20:38 »
    interesting that he got 4 years though while Yates got 4 months
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  • riding too slowly

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1793 on: October 07, 2017, 20:27 »
    Just dropped in to see if Sanchez's B sample confirmatin caused a flicker and had a look upthread.  I liked the comment about Floyd and Rasmussen slinging the mud. Snakes the pair of them.  Quite effective at it, both of them and at not naming names.  Even more to the point, they both say motors didn't ever happen.  Got to say at the time I thought they both participated in one hell of a lot of needless bike changes and I did think that in 2006, whatever it was Floyd was on to catch and drop the break, I bet Lance was looking on and saying, "I wish I had managed to get my hands on that gear". 

    Now I view their actions - not silence on motors but determined denial - as yet another phase and no, I now don't believe Floyd had some magic PED there rest did not have. 

    We are told that Floyd was busted for something he did not have in his blood at the time.   Now that I can now believe.  I think they are both trolling.
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  • hiero

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1795 on: October 14, 2017, 15:40 »
    I don't know anything about the status of Het Nieuwsblad, but spit-in-the-soup uses some questionable news tactics in their twitter stream. It seems to me S.i,t.s uses several bad 'reporting' techniques to drive the conversation in a certain direction, i.e. an agenda.

    I realize that may sound like an ad-hominem attack, but it really is useful to examine a public commentator's technique. Using dirty tricks to catch the public's attention makes even the good points suspect. I don't know who is doing it now, but newspapers I grew up with, like the National Enquirer or the Daily News, would even headline stuff on the level of "Alien baby discovered", and accordingly they had a reputation to match that. But they still had plenty of customers - which says something about the attention span of a lot of people who consume the news.

    But it does make me wonder how much context has been left out - context that may be entirely relevant. On the other hand, GVA and doctor ozone may be guilty of dirty tricks. But I don't think I can trust S.i.t.s. to present the situation in context, or with accuracy.

    You will have to tell us if Nieuwsblad has a NYT level of respectability, or if they are on the level of the National Enquirer, or somewhere in-between.

    Nieuwsblad at least gave us the doctor's reply - I paraphrase - 'as close to the race as possible'. Which, to me, tells me they are less likely trying to hide something. Closer to the race in time means more likely to show up on drug tests.

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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #1796 on: October 14, 2017, 15:57 »
    You will have to tell us if Nieuwsblad has a NYT level of respectability, or if they are on the level of the National Enquirer, or somewhere in-between.
    I'm not from Belgium; but from I can tell, Het Nieuwsblad, at least were cycling is concerned, is one of the go-to newspapers. Multi-page specials during the spring classics, and generally well-researched.
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