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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #2040 on: June 14, 2019, 14:54 »
It's funny that there's no designated Cobo thread, but searching on his name has yielded some amusing remarks about him over the years.
 :D

he isn't (or wasn't) even listed on Dopeology... Larri must be completely shocked as well :D
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2041 on: June 14, 2019, 19:21 »
    Same climb, 2 years later........................

    I know not of who you speak.

     :P :D :lol :lol :lol :D :P

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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2042 on: June 15, 2019, 06:16 »
    he isn't (or wasn't) even listed on Dopeology... Larri must be completely shocked as well :D

    I'm desperately trying to track down what I'm certain was on old post of mine.

    Neil Browne used to host a live video chat, on Sunday evenings, under the title of Tour Chats (although I suspect that they are no longer archived.) One evening (although I was included on multiple broadcasts) he, and a cycling journo co-host of his (who's identity currently escapes me), took a question of mine. I made a remark about Cobo's obvious ridiculousness, and Neil's sidekick seemed utterly perplexed by my insinuations—and it really peeed me off at the time!

    I would love to track that down and throw it in the face of whoever that hack was.  :D

    I mean, FFS, there has never been a more obvious, and more conspicuous, case of doping than Cobo's performance. Although if someone cares to argue for the person who he beat as being more so, well, you won't get any argument from me on that.

    Those back-and-forth accelerations with Froome were nearly identical to what we saw between Contador and Rasmussen, as well as between Menchov and DiLuca. So give me a break with any sort of rationalization of it all. It was pure comedy, through and through.

    In light of all that, I envision four possible follow-ups that would create a virtual tsunami of negative press, should they come to light.

    1) Froome gets popped as well (from that same race).
    2) Wiggins too.
    3) Lance 2.0 gets exposed.
    4) Chris Horner's Vuelta ends up in the dustbin.

    To be honest, it would't surprise me, in the least, if all the above came to fruition. Honestly though, I couldn't care less. I don't trust any performance I see, from any athlete, across any sport. I decide, on my own, which ones I will still enjoy though—and there are plenty. It's still entertaining. I just don't put any value on it beyond that.

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  • « Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 09:06 by Drummer Boy, Reason: Misremembered quotes from that other forum. »

    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2043 on: June 15, 2019, 06:29 »
    Re: Cobo

    Quote
    "I'm sure the UCI will explain to us all what's gone on," [Brailsford] said.

    Uh huh. Of course they will.  :-x

    Or, perhaps Sir Dave could just STFU.

    THERE IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE UCI WILL EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO ANYBODY.

    When will Brailsford get around to explaining Froome's performance in that same race?

    That entire podium is beyond laughable at this point.

    I don't really give a flip, to be perfectly honest. But don't take me for a fool.

    https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1139635342099853313
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  • « Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 06:54 by Drummer Boy »

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2044 on: June 15, 2019, 10:25 »
    he isn't (or wasn't) even listed on Dopeology... Larri must be completely shocked as well
    I don't know where I heard/read it first, but allegedly, during the 2008 Tour (when Cobo was on Saunier Duval) a staff member had to wake him up during the nights to exercise in order to keep the blood flowing and stop it from clogging the arteries.
    And that when the team was thrown out after Riccò's and Piepoli's positives, it was really for the best for Cobo's long-term (and short-term!) health.
    Sure, this is the old "so many blood bags that the blood isn't really liquid anymore" trope, so it may just be a legend.

    By the 2011 Vuelta, it was an open secret, and had been for years, that Cobo was up to no good. Of course he was. He just had never tested positive.
    The surprise isn't that he was caught, but that it took so long - which doesn't put in-race doping tests in a great light.

    And looking at that Peña Cabarga finish ... who can honestly say they believe Froome was on pan y agua there?
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2045 on: June 15, 2019, 12:26 »
    And looking at that Peña Cabarga finish ... who can honestly say they believe Froome was on pan y agua there?

    I have to say, (not that my personal opinion would possibly matter to the multi-Tour winner) that if Froome came clean, and explained exactly how he pulled off what he did, and how he made such great strides so suddenly, and how he avoided detection—I'd probably give him a pass on everything.

    It was pure genius from a Dark Side perspective. I even think he's earned a unique jersey for it all his own. It's only coincidence that his current INEOS one  #ineos is perhaps the perfect color scheme, but he really does deserve some sort of special award.

    It's kind of funny how an avalanche of corroborating evidence eventually brought down Armstrong, and made his own confession inevitable and unavoidable.  Funny, because that same avalanche of evidence, that continues to this day with others (even if it's at a glacial pace), will probably one day restore Lance's name to the record books.

    Armstrong's own denials that went on for years will likely pale in comparison to the absurdity of him being singled-out. Yes, he did quite a bit more than simply use PEDs, but as the revelation of other's dirty deeds continue to be exposed, erasing one name from the books, and not others, will be the most farcical thing of all.

    Which of course means that Floyd's name should be restored to honor as well.  :D

    (No, seriously.)
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2046 on: June 15, 2019, 12:47 »
    It just gets curiouser and curiouser...

    Quote
    Dear UCI,
    Dear Mr. Lappartient,
    Dear Mr. Cookson

    I understand that the case of anomalies in the bio pass of Cobo was opened in 2014... and that there have been several proposals from UCI to Cobo about a ban + fine, 1 in 2015, which he refused and a 2nd one in 2017, which he also refused. I understand that in the 2nd case there was a proposal for a reduced money fine. Now finally in mid 2019, 5 years after the decision to sanction the rider and 8 years after his Vuelta win, you announce your final decision, after having tried to negotiate with the rider.

    I think everybody is entitled to a full and frank explanation from the UCI of what happened during this lengthy process, why did you negotiate the amount of the fine, and especially also why it has taken so long, particularly since there hasn’t been any retro-active testing of old samples with new detection methods. So I think it’s fair to ask: what changed between 2014 (opening of the case) and June 2019?

    If it’s a clear cut case, and there is no doubt that the cyclist has doped, how can you explain a delay of 5 years before announcing your decision?

    - Johan Bruyneel

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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2048 on: July 01, 2019, 23:24 »
    https://twitter.com/Sport_Integrity/status/1145773304122417153

     :-x

    British gold medalist & ‘sports icon’ implicated in blood doping

    Quote
    An indictment by French prosecutors against Lamine Diack, former President of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) and his son, Papa Massata Diack, has alleged that British athletes, including a Gold medalist and ‘sports icon’, were involved in blood doping at the London 2012 Olympics. Journalists said the document reveals that Valentin Balakhnichev, former Treasurer of the Russian Athletics Federation (RusAF) and Vice President of the IAAF, spoke internally about abnormal blood values of several athletes at the London 2012 Olympics, including a British Gold Medalist, according to an email.

    So...are names soon to follow?


    Please please please please please...



    Or to put it another way...

    Icon:


    Not an icon:


    So who get's the prize?
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  • « Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 23:46 by Drummer Boy »

    LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2049 on: July 02, 2019, 23:21 »
    So...are names soon to follow?
    Waiting for the first person to say that these guys are really Somali- resp. Belgian-born, and ... nope, I can't be bothered to look up who the shooter is.

    :lol
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2050 on: July 06, 2019, 14:38 »
    What I have today isn't general news, but rather general speculation. Froome. I saw, and quickly discarded, speculation amongst the wildest cadre of perennial speculators, that Froome did not have an accident, and that this event was a cover-up conspiracy of some sort. Covering up some sort of doping, of course.

    But Lance, in his latest episode of online broadcasting (below), quickly gets into the ludicrous aspect of Froome's accident. Now, a conspiracy is still so fantastic that it is essentially impossible. And I mean fantastic in the fullest sense of fantasy.

    OTOH, as Lance points out, WHY TF would you take your hands off the handlebars on a hard-to-handle TT bike, in bad weather, on a recon ride? Either a COMPLETE brain fart - and those do happen - but not usually with such serious consequences - OR some sort of ulterior motive.

    TBH, I hadn't given the causation much thought. The consequences were simply too dire to worry about the WHY. But seeing this leaves unanswered questions in my mind. Given the nature of compound fractures, it is quite possible (although unlikely, I think), that Froome could NEVER return to racing.

    I'm not going to spend time dwelling on it - like DB, I have better things to do, and I'll still enjoy the racing. But if some deeper motive eventually comes to light, I won't be surprised, either.
     

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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2051 on: July 06, 2019, 17:05 »
    as Lance points out, WHY TF would you take your hands off the handlebars on a hard-to-handle TT bike, in bad weather, on a recon ride?

    I think Lance is slightly misinformed here. Yes, there's a photo of Froome with both hands off the bars while trying to put on a jacket. Yes, he was warned against taking the extra risk.

    But the moment in question, the one that caused the actual crash, was when Froome was clearing his nose, and I suspect only had one hand off the bars, as so many people have done countless times. There seemed to be some early discrepancies in the reporting of this as to how many hands Froome truly had on the bike at the time of the crash, but I don't think he took both hands off in that moment.

    There was a strong crosswind that caught his front tyre and thrust him into a concrete wall of a home, just past a driveway entrance, from what I saw. It was incredibly unfortunate timing, and maybe Froome should've been more diligent. But Armstrong seemed to think, or was giving the impression, that Froome crashed during a jacket change, and that's not how it happened, according to more detailed reports.

    Either way, it does seem that Chris was being careless, and needlessly so. Which is ironic, given the attention to detail that his squad has built their reputation around.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2052 on: July 07, 2019, 17:04 »
    . . .

    Either way, it does seem that Chris was being careless, and needlessly so. Which is ironic, given the attention to detail that his squad has built their reputation around.
    Yes, exactly so. However, from the way you describe it, Froome HAD gotten comfortable enough controlling the TT bike that he felt comfortable removing one or two hands from the bars for brief periods. Which IS a slightly different depiction than a TT bike that you don't DARE remove your hands from the bars.
    I'm a little more comfortable with that scenario - the one where Froome felt comfortable enough to take the risk - and unfortunately suffered the worst possible consequences.
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  • Joan

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2053 on: July 11, 2019, 00:25 »
    A few weeks ago, Kirill retired from pro cycling. His career has not gone as he had hoped, and he was disappointed that his new team did not get the race invitations he had expected. He was planning to retire at the end of the season anyway.
    more likely due to another doping sanction of 2 years
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2054 on: July 11, 2019, 05:31 »
    more likely due to another doping sanction of 2 years

    More likely indeed. :) There's no other news about this anywhere so it's hard to qualify what happened.

    Same substance (methylphenidate) as in 2017 so is it an entirely new positive (with 2-year sanction instead of eight months last time) or somehow related to the last one?

    His ban started 11 May this year and he was still racing then at the Rhône-Alpes Isère Tour for Tarteletto-Isorex. Top 10 overall there, you can hardly say it was a nothing result that confirmed his career had dead-ended.

    Ritalin hasn't been common in the peloton since the 70s and of all the drugs to get popped for, this is among the more obscure.
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    t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2055 on: July 11, 2019, 07:46 »
    Ritalin - the drug commonly used to treat ADHD for young people? Isn´t that just some kind of amphetamine?

    (Yep, drugs isn´t my thing, forgive my ignorance)

    EDIT: possible addiction problem or «recreational use» showing up in doping test? 
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2056 on: July 11, 2019, 16:01 »
    Ritalin - the drug commonly used to treat ADHD for young people? Isn´t that just some kind of amphetamine?

    (Yep, drugs isn´t my thing, forgive my ignorance)

    EDIT: possible addiction problem or «recreational use» showing up in doping test? 

    You're absolutely right. That's Ritalin. I can't begin to speculate about why the guy would test positive twice for it but for sure there is no good reason to be using it in and around competition. It is a relatively mild stimulant but a stimulant all the same.
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  • Joan

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2057 on: July 11, 2019, 22:13 »
    According
    to the press officer of the Azerbaijani Cycling Federation, Kirill Pozdnyakov tested positive at the National Championships in June 2018. He received from the National Antidoping Agency an immediate ban of 9 months ending in March 2019. WADA didn't accept the length of the sanction and prolonged it to 2 years. The rider's appeal against this decision has been dismissed now.

    Due to his races in April and May a new sanction period started in May 2019 until January 2021.
    The rider is preparing a new appeal at the sports arbitration court (CAS?)

     :serious
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2058 on: July 12, 2019, 11:37 »
    According
    to the press officer of the Azerbaijani Cycling Federation, Kirill Pozdnyakov tested positive at the National Championships in June 2018. He received from the National Antidoping Agency an immediate ban of 9 months ending in March 2019. WADA didn't accept the length of the sanction and prolonged it to 2 years. The rider's appeal against this decision has been dismissed now.

    Due to his races in April and May a new sanction period started in May 2019 until January 2021.
    The rider is preparing a new appeal at the sports arbitration court (CAS?)

     :serious

    Thanks, Joan, that's really helpful. I see we are back to the days where at country level they just do their own thing. This sort of 'local approach' has been noticeable in Portugal lately.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2059 on: July 17, 2019, 20:31 »
    The linked column is a review of one aspect of Vaughter's new book. The column itself is worth a read, and it sounds like the book may be, as well.
    https://www.velonews.com/2019/07/commentary/commentary-vaughters-rewrites-the-book-on-cyclings-doping-era_495508

    This could be posted in a Vaughter's thread, or a cycling book thread, but due to the prominence of the doping topic, I put it here.
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  • M Gee

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2060 on: July 17, 2019, 20:38 »
    Ritalin - the drug commonly used to treat ADHD for young people? Isn´t that just some kind of amphetamine?

    (Yep, drugs isn´t my thing, forgive my ignorance)

    EDIT: possible addiction problem or «recreational use» showing up in doping test? 
    Yup - it is an amphetamine - but - in my experience, without any amphetamine boost. It apparently (supposedly) works better for some people than others. I've had the occasion, twice in my life, to be given a prescription for it. The first was when I was on chemo for hepC, and suffering hugely from fatigue. It only made me feel even worse (more drugged). The 2nd time I could not discern any effect at all, either in energy or appetite. I quite taking it, both times, before the prescription ran out. It was worthless for me.

    I have to wonder if someone taking it was just absolutely desperate to find something to enhance performance, and managed to put their hands on this.
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  • Susan Westemeyer

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2061 on: July 18, 2019, 20:24 »
    The news about Kirill does not surprise me in the least. I suspected something of this sort. I did his PR for several years, but I know he never told me the truth about a lot of things.
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2062 on: July 30, 2019, 14:26 »
    So when can we expect the obligatory, This year's Tour de France was totally clean! press release?

    I've forgotten what the usual time frame is for that annual feel-good publicity stunt.

    Weird race this year, for sure. More for it's under performing than any over-the-top, in your face, Cobo-like moments.

    One has to wonder if  #uae UAE's troubles were indicative of a wider trend: Experimental "sports drinks" not having the intended effect, or if mixing Ketone Ester with other supplements, and getting the timing right, is trickier than one might imagine.

    Even though #sky - #ineos supposedly spearheaded the movement, they were hardly the beacon of dominance of years past.

    As Ketone use has grown in popularity, maybe something has changed in the supply chain? :slow
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2063 on: July 31, 2019, 20:24 »
    So when can we expect the obligatory, This year's Tour de France was totally clean! press release?

    I've forgotten what the usual time frame is for that annual feel-good publicity stunt.

    Weird race this year, for sure. More for it's under performing than any over-the-top, in your face, Cobo-like moments.

    One has to wonder if  #uae UAE's troubles were indicative of a wider trend: Experimental "sports drinks" not having the intended effect, or if mixing Ketone Ester with other supplements, and getting the timing right, is trickier than one might imagine.

    Even though #sky - #ineos supposedly spearheaded the movement, they were hardly the beacon of dominance of years past.

    As Ketone use has grown in popularity, maybe something has changed in the supply chain? :slow

    I don't think they'll say that this year. Lefevere's cro-magnon moment aside, legitimacy hasn't been the biggest issue. The Froome no-show, the comparative remoteness of Latin America from the World Tour and a bit of nearly drama on the home front have all helped a lot. The journos even seem delighted to have got a scoop about something that isn't technically illegal. In doping terms that's a feelgood moment.

    I spoke to Antoine Vayer in person at the Tour and although he grumbled about #ineos, #jumbo, #deceuninck and Alaphilippe he didn't have any real dirt. Nobody does just now even though there's plenty of unexplained phenomena around. I like Antoine but how he's filling that void is a bit ridiculous.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2064 on: August 02, 2019, 00:54 »
    It seems that Google Translate did rather well on this one.   :)

    Tour Danes disagree on the effect of ketones



    Quote
    Some use it, others do not. Danes from the Tour de France field have different experiences with the cycling's new wonder drug ketones.

    Drinking ketones have gone from being a secret among cycling teams to suddenly being publicly known.

    Quote
    When one's body does not get enough energy from food, the liver produces ketones naturally.
    Ketones help the body when it is physically pressed and streamline its recovery.

    In 2003, a researcher from the University of Oxford was assigned to develop a beverage that would benefit American soldiers in war. Here the drinkable ketones were developed.

    Quote
    Several Danish riders from this year's Tour de France have had the means in the drinking can, among other things during the Tour de France. At Michael Mørkøv's Deceuninck - Quick-Step it has been used for several years and he can feel the effect of the ketones that are legal to ingest.

    :slow ["Several" years? I'd like some clarification on that.]

    - It is something relatively new that has started to be used in the world of cycling. Ketones are energy drinks on a par with carbohydrates, protein and fat. Therefore, it is something that we use to perform on the distances we drive, says Michael Mørkøv to TV 2 SPORT.

    Mørkøv's teammate, Kasper Asgreen, also makes use of the funds that were originally developed for the US military and currently cost about DKK 4000 per bottle.
    [$1,780.00 USD / 535 Euro]

    Asgreen sees that more and more professional cycling teams are starting to use it. And according to Asgreen, ketones will only become more popular in the future because it has an effect.

    "When energy gels and energy bars emerged, it was the big teams that used it, and now every exercise player uses it for his training. I think that's the case with ketones at some point," says Kasper Asgreen.

    Quote
    A fun debate
    But at present there are others who do not make use of potable ketones - also in the professional field. However, Lars Bak has tried it.

    - "I don't think that makes a big difference to me," says Lars Bak, who runs Dimension Data.

    Quote
    He does not understand that ketones have become the big topic of conversation, as he says it is a completely natural product.

    - "What is doping is doping. What is not doping is not doping. Ketones are not illegal after all. I think this is a fun debate that has come. Don't we have to drink sugar? It's completely the same," says Lars Bak.
     :playlist

    Katusha's Mads Würtz Schmidt has considered using ketones, but he never got it done.

    - "I don't think it makes a difference, because then it would have been on the doping list. You want to optimize all the time, but in two years it may be another dietary supplement that everyone will use," says Mads Würtz Schmidt.
     :angel

    Quote
    He has his own recipe for success instead.

    - "I make sure to eat vitamins through the diet. It's the healthiest way, and so I stay away from all kinds of pills," says Mads Würtz Schmidt.

    It is reported that several riders drink three bottles of ketones at one stage. It thus amounts to approximately DKK 12,000 per rider - a relatively expensive deal for a product that does not prove to make a huge difference.
     :o

    - "That looks interesting. It points in the direction of what I would call a small potential. But we need more studies to be able to say it more clearly," says Peter Møller Christensen, sports physiologist Team Denmark.

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    Re: Arctic Race of Norway by t-72
    [August 18, 2019, 21:03]


    Re: [2.HC] Tour of Utah by Leadbelly
    [August 18, 2019, 20:05]


    Re: [2.HC] Tour of Utah by Leadbelly
    [August 18, 2019, 20:03]



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