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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #2100 on: July 16, 2021, 07:17 »
"I still find it a little bit weird that at this time in this year they still believe we are doing something illegal"

:dizzy

https://www.velonews.com/events/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-matej-mohoric-says-bahrain-victorious-has-nothing-to-hide-after-police-search/

According to today's Het Belang van Limburg, Dylan Teuns was among those who had to hand over everything, phone, laptop, files and so on. "I was just allowed to write down three numbers from my loved ones,” says Teuns. “When I asked the officers when I would get my mobile phone back, they told me: It could take up to two months. Everything is there: personal photos, my contacts, you name it. But there was not an ounce of understanding.” [...] "Not every rider of our team had to give up his laptop or mobile phone,” he says. “Especially those who ride a striking Tour were clearly targeted. Very bizarre.”

He already got himself a lawyer to take care of it, by the way: Guillaume ‘Billy’ Reynders, who also defended TVM doctor Andrei Mikhailov after the 1998 raid.  :shh
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    Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2101 on: July 17, 2021, 01:52 »
    A report in Swiss newspaper Le Temps cited three unnamed riders who expressed concern about “strange noises” emanating from the rear wheels of the bikes of four teams, including yellow jersey Tadej Pogačar’s UAE Team Emirates squad.

    "There is a strange noise. I can hear it while riding. It comes from the rear wheels. A strange metallic noise, like a badly adjusted chain. I've never heard that anywhere," said one rider, according to the report.


    -------------------

    One would have to be colossally stupid to bring a motorized, or other illegal, bike to the Tour—of all races. Especially one that was prone to "strange noises."

    I have a hard time believing that there is any substance to these suspicions. I've heard high-end hubs that make tremendously uneven sounds as a result of their design. It would drive me crazy, and you couldn't pay to use some of them, but they're out there.

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  • « Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 02:11 by Drummer Boy »

    Havik

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2102 on: July 17, 2021, 02:36 »
    Le Temps article here if anyone is looking for it (in French, pic via twitter): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6bLBWlWYAESf3b?format=jpg&name=medium

    A rider is hearing a strange noise coming from the wheel hubs of the riders on 4 teams: UAE-Team Emirates, DQS, Jumbo and Bahrain. Another riders says there are rumours about a device hidden in the hubs.

    Also, riders on one team drink something weird after the finish and won't or can't say what it is, while riders on another team seem to hide when drinking at the end of the stage.

    I don't expect this to go anywhere, but who knows.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2103 on: July 17, 2021, 02:55 »
    Le Temps article here if anyone is looking for it.

    Yes, look to my post above. :P
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  • doneill

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    Re: Tour 2021 General Discussion
    « Reply #2104 on: July 18, 2021, 03:54 »
    I am sorry but the Tour has been ruined for me. As a sports med MD with a second doctorate in exercise and sport psychology, I can tell you no one can physilogically come from nowhere for the past 5 years and then dominate in the sprints at age 36.  It simply cannot happen. Just as David Ortiz is the only major league baseball player to not deteriorate with age, no cyclist can do so legally. Sorry, but this is just not how biology works.
    Is this making anyone else crazy?

    Happy to discuss,
    Daniel F O'Neill, MD, EdD
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Tour 2021 General Discussion
    « Reply #2105 on: July 18, 2021, 07:15 »
    I am sorry but the Tour has been ruined for me.
    Moved your post to the "Dark Side" as that is where we keep doping discussions.
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    AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2106 on: July 18, 2021, 11:04 »
    I am sorry but the Tour has been ruined for me. As a sports med MD with a second doctorate in exercise and sport psychology, I can tell you no one can physilogically come from nowhere for the past 5 years and then dominate in the sprints at age 36.  It simply cannot happen. Just as David Ortiz is the only major league baseball player to not deteriorate with age, no cyclist can do so legally. Sorry, but this is just not how biology works.
    Is this making anyone else crazy?

    Happy to discuss,
    Daniel F O'Neill, MD, EdD

    I actually believe Cav a bit more than some of the rides from others this Tour.

    Cav has a pretty solid reason for his poor form of the last few years ... and while his results this Tour have been fabulous, its not exactly against the best sprinters in the world.  The top class opposition that would normally be here and taking those wins, are all sitting at home.   Ewen, Bennet, et al are injured, and the next generation of sprinters havent really emerged yet.

    I do believe that Cavendish fully fit and recovered is capable of beating the likes of Philipsen and Boel - and wannabe sprinter/climber types like Colbrelli and Matthews.

    Van Aert, Van der Poel and Sagan may have been able to challenge had they had free reign / been fit and not crashed.

    Colbrelli, Mohoric and a few others have certainly raised more eyebrows for me though.   (Van Aert, winning a mountain top finish after being second in a sprint is an interesting result)


    [please note :  I would not be overly surprised at any rider testing posative though, I believe they all push the boundaries to various extents, and many go over the line)
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2107 on: July 18, 2021, 13:59 »
    Is this making anyone else crazy?

    Not really, as I would pretty much agree with everything AG stated above.

    That being said, I appreciate your post, as we're always interested in an informed position around here. And trust me, none are more cynical in their view of professional athletes than I. If it were suddenly discovered, incontrovertibly, that Cavendish and his entire team were breaking the rules in some manner, along with all the other standout riders of this Tour, it would barely generate more than a gentle shrug from me. Outrage would be the last thing on the menu, as I've been observing such things for far too long to be surprised or disappointed anymore. That being said, allow me to play devil's advocate a bit on this one.

    It's one thing to describe Cavendish as having "come from nowhere for the past five years," but even without significant results in that time, we're talking about the best sprinter of his generation, and certainly one of the greatest sprinters of all time—in a sport where winners and losers are often only separated by mere centimeters.

    In that five-year period, Cavendish was still often winning in the early season, but suffered various injuries and illness along the way, not to mention that he was hardly on the best or strongest of teams. Some sprinters are quite deft at navigating the madness of a bunch sprint on their own—such as Robbie McEwen or Peter Sagan, among others—but Cavendish was never really that type of a racer. His wins almost exclusively came as the result of a well-coordinated, and well-drilled lead-out train. In his dominate years at HTC/Columbia, they were simply unstoppable. And were seeing very much the same with his Quick-Step lead-out train this year: No team is better.

    Also, as AG stated above, this is hardly the most elite field of sprinters that Cavendish finds himself up against. His most challenging competitors have long-since left the race, or as in the case of the rider he replaced, Sam Bennett, did not even start the race to begin with. Had those riders been healthy and actively involved in this year's Tour, then one could argue that Cavendish might not have any victories at all. At the same time, however, that shouldn't diminish the significance of his accomplishments, because surviving the three weeks, and making it all the way to Paris, are an inescapable part of the equation. Plenty of Grand Tours in past have been won by riders who benefited greatly from the absence of their greatest rivals, due to either injury or illness. It's the nature of the sport.

    Another thing to consider is that one of Cavendish's most exceptional attributes has always been his extraordinarily  high race-IQ. In addition to his meticulous race preparation and recon, he's able to read the unfolding events in front of him, and make those crucial split-second decisions about when and where to jump, better than even most of his elite competitors. This is something we've seen not only in the past, but again at this year's Tour. There were clearly riders who were "faster" than Cavendish in some of these sprints, with remarkable closing speeds from much further out. But Cavendish was the first to the line, and in the end, that's all that counts. For these reasons, I don't find what he's currently doing to be all that suspect.

    My question to you, based on your professional background, would be:
    If you think he's cheating in some manner, then by what method? If you find the performance of athlete of his age, with a less-than-productive record over the past five years, to be highly suspicious, then what would you suppose might be the antidote to his failings? And not just any athlete, but an elite sprinter, because only certain types of products or methods are likely to be of benefit in that realm. Unless your concerns are based more on possible "mechanical doping" of the bike itself—which would be an entirely different conversation altogether (and in this case, one that I would likely dismiss).

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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2108 on: October 05, 2021, 17:22 »
    Not sure who manages / posts as the VR Twitter account (?) but interesting retweet of earlier Cobrelli comments; and some suggestion of surprise at a late bloom to his career performances?  I am still gutted that either of the other two didn't win on Sunday; and have general dislike of Cobrelli; but do I have darkside grounds?
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2109 on: October 05, 2021, 20:09 »
    Not sure who manages / posts as the VR Twitter account (?)

    I thought it was mostly JustSomeGuy, but I'm confused as I scroll through the timeline (I haven't used Twitter myself in years).

    There seem to be political/ideological reasons that people are attacking Colbrelli, but I don't quite understand how that's supposed to translate to (possible) doping.
    :slow
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2110 on: October 05, 2021, 20:19 »
    Happy to discuss,
    Daniel F O'Neill, MD, EdD

    I had totally forgotten about this. But with only one post, and no response in three months, I guess not so happy discuss, after all?
     :wut
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  • Servais Knavendish

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2111 on: February 16, 2022, 15:28 »
    Toon Aerts - Breast cancer drug - protests innocence; etc etc
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2112 on: February 17, 2022, 22:40 »
    Breast cancer happens to men too, although it is ..ahem.. a proportionally smaller problem.
    However, cancer drugs as doping, can someone please explain?

    To me it just sounds like some witch doctor has been looking for another secret miracle drug?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2113 on: February 18, 2022, 10:59 »
    To me it just sounds like some witch doctor has been looking for another secret miracle drug?
    Quoting from a Cyclingnews article:
    Quote
    There is no medical use for Letrozole in men, and is banned because it can be used to mask the effects of anabolic steroids or to promote higher testosterone levels by blocking that hormone's breakdown.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-not-suspending-toon-aerts-over-doping-positive-yet/
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2114 on: February 19, 2022, 08:40 »
    I didn’t insinuate that Aerts has a breast cancer problem, but I don´t consider cyclingnews the source on anti-cancer medications either. The (anti)cancer interest groups here in Norway has recently been running a sort of awareness campaign about cancer and shame. They have featured at least one  former top athlete now with quite broken body post cancer. Showing that no, it doesn´t really look good, but that´s how things have become. It is nothing to be ashamed off. Along the same lines - probably part of the same campaign - the man who had breast cancer. It is - as I joked - proportionally less of a problem, but it does happen and it shouldn´t be shameful for anyone, woman or man.

    However, a competing top level athlete is not at the same time being cured for cancer. No way. Not even in Texas.
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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2117 on: July 01, 2022, 14:42 »
    It seems to have been a very well coordinated effort. Going after different locations, in different countries, all simultaneously. I would hope that such an effort is the result of some very credible suspicions. Now we have to wait and see if any significantly damning evidence comes to the surface.

    However, if it does, the story will dominate any other coverage of the Tour and only further plunge the sport into ridicule and derision from the global media who nothing of cycling to begin with. And if this investigation doesn't reveal anything substantial, then just WTF are the authorities doing?
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2118 on: July 22, 2022, 12:18 »
    This morning, news of #astana rider Miguel Angel Lopez has been suspender by the team. He is under investigation by the Spanish police for distrigubution of illegal drugs in Spain. The medical doctor Miguel Magnar is named in this context as the main person involved. This suggest to me that we are not talking about any of the more common types of illegal drugs usually distributed by Colombians, and that they may have some kind of performance-enhancing effects.
    Distribution and use are also two different things, though. The team has suspended until clarifications have been made and that actually seems like the right thing to do in this confusing situation.

    https://twitter.com/astanaqazteam/status/1550390695432785923
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2119 on: July 22, 2022, 12:20 »
    Bahrain hotel raided this morning
    While I am at it….
    Note on teams and riders notably missing from Tour de France results lists?
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2120 on: July 22, 2022, 19:41 »
    Note on teams and riders notably missing from Tour de France results lists?

    yeah, could still be unrelated of course, but it feels like those who had done a big step upwards over the past year or two couldn't back that up at all over the past three weeks. Mohoric, Caruso, Tratnik, Teuns were all quite far away from their best.

    For Fred Wright this Tour was his breakthrough race, though, I'd say (even if he didn't win a stage), and also Luis Leon Sanchez was very solid.
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  • t-72

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2121 on: July 22, 2022, 21:10 »
    yeah, could still be unrelated of course, but it feels like those who had done a big step upwards over the past year or two couldn't back that up at all over the past three weeks. Mohoric, Caruso, Tratnik, Teuns were all quite far away from their best.

    Yes, it is possible that these riders and this team, which has been consistent good performers from the start of the season until the Tour just hit the decline part of their form curve. Mohoric and Tratnik, though: they have been so aksent that it was only this week I realized they were on the team for the TdF. That is unusual. However, it may be that they had their motivation so strongly tied to team success with Jack Haig that they simply lost all of it when he couldn´t participate anymore.

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  • Drummer Boy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #2122 on: July 23, 2022, 03:39 »
    Mohoric and Tratnik, though: they have been so aksent that it was only this week I realized they were on the team for the TdF.

    One thing that got my attention was that Mohoric was quoted as saying that he came into the Tour in great shape and really had high expectations for himself, but that he was even mystified by his sudden drop in form. It seems odd that he would admit to a sudden change while the team is under suspicion, but maybe he's overcompensating for something? It's all very strange.

    I can't find the quotes from any interview, but Nico Roche and Anthony McCrossan were discussing it during yesterday's stage broadcast.
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