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just some guy

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Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

Larri Nov 12, 2014

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #451 on: February 19, 2013, 10:08 »
interesting
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #452 on: February 19, 2013, 12:51 »
    Gerard Vroomen Interview: Inexplicable why the UCI didn’t target Armstrong over bio passport

    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13976/Gerard-Vroomen-Interview-Inexplicable-why-the-UCI-didnt-target-Armstrong-over-bio-passport.aspx#ixzz2LLhQ7vaa
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  • AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #453 on: February 19, 2013, 14:00 »
    Vroomen wrote a really good blog about the UCI blood passport program too

    http://gerard.cc/category/bike-politics/

    UCI v Ashendon

    asking why the blood passport program did not flag Lance's profile for the Tour

    Quote
    In the end, there are only two possible conclusions:

        Armstrong’s profile was flagged by the software, a sign the tool may be useful, but the UCI decided not to forward the profile to the expert panel for review.
        Armstrong’s profile was not flagged by the software, which means the software and therefore the whole protocol is useless.
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    DB-Coop

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #455 on: February 20, 2013, 14:48 »
    I found the actual original source:
    http://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen/nnfa02021613/16-02-2013
    (click on "9. Thor Hushovd om Armstrong og doping")

    I'll have to listen through it carefully to see 1) if the question was that explicit ("did you dope?"), and 2) what exactly he answered (if I can understand his Norwegian...).
    But from the short skip I've done now I'd say the question wasn't as clear cut as that, and the answer given by CN is somewhat paraphrased.

    I just watched it, and the coverage by CN was terrible, to begin with the question he is asked is not "Did you dope?" it is more in the lines of "Why should I believe in you whilst one after the other has cheated and cheated and cheated?" to which he replies something in the lines of "Yes that is of cause a hard question, and I think people at home must chose what they believe, I have said mine, but at the same time I realize that my words weigh less and less for every rider that comes forward and admits to doping. But in my mind and my heart I feel comfortable and that is important to me." So essentially he is answering if he agrees that it is harder and harder to believe anybody was clean for the fans, and he says that he agrees but also states that this is no issue for him, because he knows he was clean. But he understands why people have a hard time trusting bike riders.
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #456 on: February 20, 2013, 16:45 »
    Quote
    (Sounds of scaping as soapbox is dsimantled ... followed by shuffling noises as I exit, stage left ...  :D)

    :-D Awesome - and I hear you - great stuff KR.
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  • Hey, Bart! Your epidermis is showing!

    ram

    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #457 on: February 21, 2013, 03:19 »
    Belated reply due to a couple of days down with bugs ...

    Completely agree that policing doping wont remove drugs from sport. The main reason for that is because "policing" as the term has now come to be defined, is one of the most ineffective and inefficient ways of trying to bring about a change in behaviour - just look to how good the KGB was at stamping out "dissenters" in the former USSR ... Or, for a more hum-drum example, look to road policing in our respective countries.

    The only way to get this major change is to look at root causes of the problem of doping and to look to key "social" triggers of change.

    So that's basically a two pronged approach. First off, find out why riders are taking the drugs - is it because their DS's tell them too, peer pressure, fear of short term contracts, not having anything to go to outside cycling, imbalance in pay rates between "stars and watercarriers", because it's "kinda something to do", etc, etc ... This needs to be an investigation at all levels across the sport - not just this obsessive focus that the cycling world has with the World Tour teams. By doing that, we learn both where the problem first rears it's head - and can also learn why those parts of the sport that are "clean" are in fact "clean". Strategies can be developed to address those issues - eg., "no needles" policies, removing doctors from teams, changing the minimum pay scales, building in provisions for some form of pay security or "retirement planning", drug counseling, etc, etc ... You'll note from that list that I haven't put in "higher penalties" - which is because experience has shown that they wont make the change that is needed. I(If anyone wants proof just answer me the question: how many of the people sitting on death row around the world were put off from committing their crime by the fact that they could end up paying the ultimate price? The answer is of course "none" - or else they wouldn't be sitting there ...)

    Alongside this, there needs to be a set of measures seeking to change the implicit (or - if you read some of the inane comments on VeloNews and cyclingnews.com - explicit) approval of doping in the sport. This means things like emphasising that doping is cheating, bringing the media around to celebrating the effort rather than the result, exposing the impossibility of some of the results that have been achieved (there was a good programme on the Seoul 100m final that did that), etc., etc. I know that I'll sound like I've simply regurgitated the work that Bassons has decribed in his recent interview over at cyclingnews - but they are the sort of things that need to be done. This is definitely a long game - again, as Bassons says. But hey "the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step ..." right?

    What I'm saying isn't pie in the sky - and in fact I know that it works as I've had first hand experience with this type of programme in industry. I worked in both heavy industry and forestry for a number of years. The latter especially had a huge problem with drugs - in part because of the boringly repetitive nature and poor pay of some jobs, and in part because a well tended forest is ideal growing space for other, more lucrative cash crops ...

    When I started, the focus was very much on "catch and punish". The environment was adversarial and riddled with all of the same sort of "omerta" issues that cycling has. We embarked on a revolutionary programme that combined all of these sorts of elements that I discussed above. Rather than punishing anyone who was busted, we actually tried to rehabilitate them - no questions asked, no reprecussions, and even no sharing of the info with the police. We also put in place some pretty major education programmes focusing on the health effects, social effects, etc of the drugs. Some of these steps were small - eg., I still have a beanie from one programme that was "drugs and alcohol - not at work" (which implies that drugs at home may still be OK?!) - but they led to larger and larger steps.

    The results that we got were staggering. Massive improvements in safety. Guys who came forward to ask for help of their own accord. A few who "self selected" themselves out by not wanting to play the game. But overall, a major change and massive reduction in the use of illicit drugs - something that the previous, punishment based regime never achieved.

    Now I know that forestry workers and atheletes have different personalities - but humans are humans, regardless of their job, so there is every reason to expect it to work. Also, what I am talking about is actually basic criminology and is the sort of thing that countries with very low recidivism rates use very succsessfully - again, an argument in favour.

    But most importantly, the current approach isn't really working, and isn't getting us to the results that we want (to paraprhase Evans - as long as the skinny guys are still winning all of the timetrials, we've got a problem) - and isn't it the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing in the same circumstances and expecting a different result each time?

    (Sounds of scaping as soapbox is dsimantled ... followed by shuffling noises as I exit, stage left ...  :D)
    But, are you talking about recreational drugs or performance enhancing drugs?

    The essential difference is that one hinders the productivity in an output driven society, whereas the other improves it. Recreational drugs are better left to education, though I'd personally not support its possession or use being decriminalised, and the piloting of such in Portugal has been a relative success.

    PEDs, on the other hand, drive success and a comparison I'd make is like cheating in an examination. If I were in a sticky spot bordering on failure and needed another's help, I'd sure as hell might try. Whether the other is any good is another matter. The sanction of getting caught though might mean a black mark for the future career, and there's no cajoling involved. You get caught, you fail or get suspended. If that can be implemented in a doping sense...
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #458 on: February 21, 2013, 14:26 »
    the past is in the because it is in the past and what happened in the past should remain in the past because it is in the past (he didnt say that)

    EKi

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/news/former-armstrong-teammate-ekimov-no-comment-on-doping-scandal_275321
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #459 on: February 22, 2013, 10:52 »
    This fits in 5 different threads so in here it goes

    Roche on McQuaid and Kimmage
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  • AG

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #460 on: February 22, 2013, 23:37 »
    there is a huge difference in motivation - the risk v reward payoff -  to take these substances though Kiwirider.

    For your forrestry guy, the motivation is purely to reduce the boredom and get through the day. Its for personal stimulation.  This can easily be replaced with positive feelings towards the company, towards self, towards any number of things.

    In elite sport winning is EVERYTHING.  There isnt anything you can use as a higher motivating factor.    Unless the risk of penalty is substantial, the rewards for doing it and succeeding are just too high.

    So I dont think the 'rehabilitation without repercussions' part would work.

    I completely agree with this part of your statement though

    Alongside this, there needs to be a set of measures seeking to change the implicit (or - if you read some of the inane comments on VeloNews and cyclingnews.com - explicit) approval of doping in the sport. This means things like emphasising that doping is cheating, bringing the media around to celebrating the effort rather than the result, exposing the impossibility of some of the results that have been achieved (there was a good programme on the Seoul 100m final that did that), etc., etc. I know that I'll sound like I've simply regurgitated the work that Bassons has decribed in his recent interview over at cyclingnews - but they are the sort of things that need to be done. This is definitely a long game - again, as Bassons says. But hey "the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step ..." right?


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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #461 on: February 26, 2013, 10:48 »
    José Been ‏@TourDeJose
    Angel Vicioso rides GP Camaiore (Thursday) with Katusha…..Suspension ended. Super fast five-day suspension for him

     :lol


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    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #463 on: February 28, 2013, 20:31 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/federal-investigation-into-doping-in-russia

    Interrogations or interviews

    So countries jumping on the bandwagon increase
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #464 on: February 28, 2013, 20:35 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/federal-investigation-into-doping-in-russia

    Interrogations or interviews

    So countries jumping on the bandwagon increase

    Minutes of the Inaugural Session chaired by the Honourable Chairman Makarov

    The Honourable Chairman would like it recorded that he cleared his throat.

    Inquest formally opened.

    There is no doping in Russia.

    Inquest formally closed.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #465 on: March 06, 2013, 23:36 »
    its an interesting one.

    I think if anything comes of the Essendon one in the AFL, the club will be sued by a LOT of players.

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #466 on: March 22, 2013, 11:41 »
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  • esafosfina

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #467 on: March 23, 2013, 16:20 »
    Not sure about this one... comes from a facebook friend and ex-team-mate of Elliot: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seur_(equipo_ciclista)
    Couldn't find Malcolm on L'arri's Dopeology site...
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  • "Sturgess, don't you dare get off that bike" - Sean Kelly, Nokere, 1989.

    L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #468 on: March 23, 2013, 16:22 »
    Not sure about this one... comes from a facebook friend and ex-team-mate of Elliot: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seur_(equipo_ciclista)
    Couldn't find Malcolm on L'arri's Dopeology site...

    They will now be added. Thanks, esa!

    EDIT: uh-oh, looks like there's a whole stack of incidents here...
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  • esafosfina

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #469 on: March 24, 2013, 10:21 »
    WADA issues urgent warning about black market substance GW501516

    Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/14196/WADA-issues-urgent-warning-about-black-market-substance-GW501516.aspx#ixzz2OGfgBR2x

    Read this yesterday... interesting stance by WADA. Could be a double edged sword... paternalism V libertarianism?
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #470 on: March 29, 2013, 13:22 »
    So first he denies it, spending virtually his entire suspension time swearing he never "did it" and fighting his suspension - I remember seeing him in some talkshow where he claimed to be as pure as a unicorn - and now he says "Yeah, whatever. I did it, if they want to know more, they can ask me."

    He's doing it the wrong way.
    Firstly, he should have admitted, ideally right away, but denying throughout his suspension was simply absurd. Coming out now isn't worth much; only marginally better (as in sooner) than Rolf Sørensen, really.
    Secondly, he shouldn't publicly announce that he would be willing to cooperate with the authorities, he should simply do it. Afterwards he could talk about it if he's narcissistic enough to need that. Now he's basically telling his partners in crime "look out, I may have to say a little bit about you, lie low for the next couple of months".
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    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #471 on: April 02, 2013, 17:43 »
    Was just reading the convulsions from Flanders on cn, when I read this

    RadioShack startle with strength in depth

    While Fabian Cancellara’s strength has never been in doubt, the ability of his team has been questioned ever since he left the Bjarne Riis stable to join the nascent Leopard project in 2011. That spring, Cancellara was left isolated and frustrated in the finale of both the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix, and as recently as Friday afternoon, manager Luca Guercilena admitting to reporters that his team was not as strong as the likes of BMC and Omega Pharma-QuickStep.On Sunday, however, RadioShack pulled out a surprisingly committed collective performance.

    Hayden Roulston put in a mammoth stint on the front of the peloton on the first circuit of the Kwaremont-Paterberg circuit but Stijn Devolder’s showing ahead of the finale was particularly remarkable.Devolder had reportedly travelled to Spain for a mini training camp during the week and he showed the fruits of the trip by sitting at the front of the bunch and controlling affairs ahead of the final circuit over the Kwaremont and Paterberg. The Belgian’s display was all the more striking given that he had punctured shortly beforehand and had to give chase alone.



    Alarms bells went off  :rolleye
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #474 on: April 06, 2013, 20:55 »
    smart phone app for WADA Adams -  http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/wada-to-offer-smartphone-app-for-athlete-whereabouts-reporting/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wada-to-offer-smartphone-app-for-athlete-whereabouts-reporting

    interestingly, they just say it will be for reporting on.. why dont they use the built in gps in smartphones and use that..

    be like foursquare :D
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #475 on: April 06, 2013, 21:11 »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/22047144

    Dillian Whyte: Scapegoat for sport’s supplement generation?
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  • Zam

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    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #479 on: April 08, 2013, 15:17 »
    Brian Holm believes that 95 % of the riders in this year's Tour de France will be clean: http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1939735/brian-holm-i-tour-feltet-2013-vil-mindst-95-procent-af-rytterne-vaere-rene/
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