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just some guy

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Re: Darkside - General news
« Reply #480 on: April 09, 2013, 13:06 »
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #481 on: April 09, 2013, 15:20 »
    http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/04/06/les-saisies-de-produits-dopants-en-legere-baisse_3155341_3242.html

    Le Monde reports that doping product seizures in 2012 were slightly down on 2011 figures.

    Among the more notable hauls, a total of 73,182 doses of HGH were taken in a single seizure at Charles De Gaulle Airport.

    Where the gear comes from:

    RankCountry%
    1Thailand54.6%
    2Greece7.6%
    3Slovakia6.87%

    Of the top 10 countries through which the dope is trafficked, six are EU countries. Germany and Belgium have good customs teams but remain heavy targets. Moldavia and Romania meanwhile are softer touches.
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  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #482 on: April 10, 2013, 09:04 »
    Universal Sports Announcers Lose Their Minds at Vuelta al Pais Vasco
    Suggest Quintana's Vasco win was "out of nowhere" and insinuate doping

    http://www.podiumcafe.com/2013/4/10/4206558/message-to-universal-sports-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #483 on: April 10, 2013, 10:59 »
    Universal Sports Announcers Lose Their Minds at Vuelta al Pais Vasco
    Suggest Quintana's Vasco win was "out of nowhere" and insinuate doping

    http://www.podiumcafe.com/2013/4/10/4206558/message-to-universal-sports-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you

    1st I agree with most of the comments that they fliped up big time, but I have an issue with something

    You tweeted larri, over the last 20 years or longer we the public have been calling for commentators to take public stance against doping, not ignoring the massive pink elephant who just took a dump in the corner.

    They may have called out the wrong guy, time will tell, but as corrections go it is a standard over correction from the usps days , but not a bad thing in many respects .

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #484 on: April 10, 2013, 11:18 »
    1st I agree with most of the comments that they fliped up big time, but I have an issue with something

    You tweeted larri, over the last 20 years or longer we the public have been calling for commentators to take public stance against doping, not ignoring the massive pink elephant who just took a dump in the corner.

    They may have called out the wrong guy, time will tell, but as corrections go it is a standard over correction from the usps days , but not a bad thing in many respects .

    The way for commentators to take a public stance about doping is to talk about facts, about the history and about what is currently in the news. Making the news themselves with foolish, hastily-conceived suspicions is definitely a bad thing.

    There is no Team Immaculate Conception in top level pro cycling today. Fact. Doping did not begin and end with USPS and should not therefore be viewed exclusively through that prism just because you are addressing a predominantly Anglo public. Fact. History tells us that sometimes the riders we support have bought into the Dark Side. Fact. But that is a long, long way from looking at a young man who, just because you do zero research, can't speak Spanish and depend on your pompous, self-satisfied fluffball of pro racing experience from 20+ years ago, must therefore be doping.

    I was a bit surprised by his TT result though not to the extreme of assuming Quintana was doping. But then again, I didn't go on national cable TV (or whatever it is) and tell hundreds of thousands of people that what he did was questionable. And besides, it doesn't overly matter what I think. There aren't too many people I can pollute with my ignorance.

    Taking a stance is not insinuating that someone is a doper.
    Insinuating that someone is a doper without any factual basis is irresponsible.
    Irresponsible commentary undermines reputations.
    Reputations in cycling are very fragile.
    A fragile sport is not a healthy sport.

    Perhaps I wouldn't be so incensed if this wasn't the channel that sipped the Lance flavoured Kool Aid for over 15 years. If it wasn't the channel that still namedrops the Texan at any tangential opportunity.

    Meanwhile, I am personally sick of hearing these journos and self-important experts telling "the bloggers" to wind in their heads whenever people call out unprofessionalism from industry and old media. This is nothing more than cause and effect.

    We live in a time when the public can talk back. When people can be held to account before public opinion. Who's whining now?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #485 on: April 10, 2013, 11:29 »
    Not disagreeing with you larri, but still not the massive whohar , as I said they fliped up, but I would rather doping is discussed than not at all.

    Yes Ofc it should be done in the correct way and these 2 did not, but as I said not all bad
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #486 on: April 10, 2013, 12:09 »
    to expand a bit

    we can have no doping talk from commentators just discussions of racing and a few bits and bobs about the local attractions

    or

    we can full blown twitter/forum like doping discussions

    or
    we can have Harmon type bullsh*t talking a big game after they are found gulity and a few stupid comments about riders he does not like.

    or
    we can have educated and factual discussions

    but to get the last we must have a few mistakes. NBC and those 2 fliped up but rather than calling them out in a agressive way why not try and educate them, they should know better I here you all say

    sure they should but how many expert cycling commentators are there really most are from other sports
     
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #488 on: April 10, 2013, 13:22 »
    ... NBC and those 2 fliped up but rather than calling them out in a agressive way why not try and educate them, they should know better I here you all say

    sure they should but how many expert cycling commentators are there really most are from other sports

    Why not try to educate them? They're not supposed to need education. Indeed, they're even supposed to educate us. That's why Kelly gets the gig at Eurosport when he would be better suited to doing audiobooks of James Joyce novels.

    Even a fool like me knows that Quintana did not "come from nowhere". Casual fans might not care so much, but that makes it even more important not to insinuate that some riders are dopers. Casual fans will take your word for it and last time I checked, TV commentary was not filed under popular fiction.

    Don't renew their contracts. Then they will work harder for their next job while we will get to listen to someone else who may not have spent a single season riding for Motorola but who could be a lot better commentator.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #489 on: April 10, 2013, 13:49 »
    This will get nowhere as we are arguing different things

    You this 1 thing me cycling commentators as a group.

    I have already said they made a mistake , maybe no one can say for sure

    But if there was more open discussion it would be better and in my opinion some discussion is better than not, your man Kelly a prime example.

    But I will leave it as we are not on the same discussion page as I said they fliped up.

    As an aside we should be educating commentators while they should know better most do not.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #490 on: April 10, 2013, 14:00 »
    Clearly these two guys are clueless, out of touch, and ignorant..

    everyone knows if you are going to call someone out make sure its a sky rider. :D And do it the harmon way, just call performances "remarkable". Everyone will just nudge each other, wink and carry on their day.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #491 on: April 10, 2013, 14:48 »
    The Alpe climing times top 100
    no new times since 2006 fwiw
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #492 on: April 10, 2013, 14:56 »
    1st I agree with most of the comments that they fli

    ped up big time, but I have an issue with something

    You tweeted larri, over the last 20 years or longer we the public have been calling for commentators to take public stance against doping, not ignoring the massive pink elephant who just took a dump in the corner.

    They may have called out the wrong guy, time will tell, but as corrections go it is a standard over correction from the usps days , but not a bad thing in many respects .

    The thing is, the only people ever called out are yellow-brown skilled athletes from far away countries. BBC also had their Quintana moment. Surprise surprise it was a algerian middle distance runner no one knows. We're disgusted that he was so.obviously getting away with doping. The British Jamaican or us athletes though, even if they are shattering world records, don't you dare say a word about them . Similarly the US coach went after the Chinese swimmer. Of course the American ones winning half the gold medals in the pool was perfectly all right. Now we see some dickhead calling out the most talented young rider in a generation for winning a week race. Who just happens to be Colombian mestizo. Far more suspicious performances are unquestioned.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #493 on: April 10, 2013, 14:59 »
    The thing is, the only people ever called out are yellow-brown skilled athletes from far away countries. BBC also had their Quintana moment. Surprise surprise it was a algerian middle distance runner no one knows. We're disgusted that he was so.obviously getting away with doping. The British Jamaican or us athletes though, even if they are shattering world records, don't you dare say a word about them . Similarly the US coach went after the Chinese swimmer. Of course the American ones winning half the gold medals in the pool was perfectly all right. Now we see some dickhead calling out the most talented young rider in a generation for winning a week race. Who just happens to be Colombian mestizo. Far more suspicious performances are unquestioned.

    I agree and also wonder if twitter would have exploded if Porte had of won and been called out

    not likely these guys would have been hero´s

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #494 on: April 10, 2013, 15:16 »
    I agree and also wonder if twitter would have exploded if Porte had of won and been called out

    not likely these guys would have been hero´s

    Well the outrage was that they said he came out of nowhere. And that would have been far more true of Wiggins 09, froome 11 and Richie Porte pn than it would of nairito.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #495 on: April 10, 2013, 15:17 »
    Well the outrage was that they said he came out of nowhere. And that would have been far more true of Wiggins 09, froome 11 and Richie Porte pn than it would of nairito.

    I know I said as much hours ago - not what I am arguing
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #496 on: April 10, 2013, 15:30 »
    I know I said as much hours ago - not what I am arguing

    :hug
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #497 on: April 10, 2013, 15:49 »
    I know I said as much hours ago - not what I am arguing

    Yes there would have been far less outrage on twitter if they used the d word for a sky rider. Or at least ill take your word for it, since i dont go on twitter much but i can guess what crowd you are talking about - the hog and that (though ive seen some wackjobs on the other side too)

    What can I say though, its not my opinion. I think they are wrong and one needs to be consistent on these things. Which is the same as the commentators. Apply the same standards to everyone be it,- innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent, same should go for everyone.
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  • search

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #498 on: April 10, 2013, 16:07 »
    Well the outrage was that they said he came out of nowhere.

    I do not support those nbc guys, but what they said was timetrial-related, that's something you have to keep in mind
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  • "If this is cycling, I am a banana"

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #499 on: April 10, 2013, 16:39 »
    Yep as Search says it could draw parallels with Basso when he was doped up etc.

    At the same time such insinuations are daft and you would expect to find elsewhere, not by commentators to the public.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #500 on: April 10, 2013, 16:47 »
    I do not support those nbc guys, but what they said was timetrial-related, that's something you have to keep in mind

    They still messed up either way. For some reason they had never seen Quintana's climbing performances before, or they misread the route assuming it was actually a flat ITT (even if you didn't look at the profile, 6 of the top10 not specialists).

    I don't care so much that they accused someone of doping, rather another example of commentators knowing nothing about the sport they call  :S
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #501 on: April 10, 2013, 22:39 »
    Yep as Search says it could draw parallels with Basso when he was doped up etc.

    At the same time such insinuations are daft and you would expect to find elsewhere, not by commentators to the public.

    How? explain it to me like i am a 2 year old.
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #502 on: April 11, 2013, 03:36 »
    I think if commentators are going to call out riders, or imply that they have questions about their results, they have a responsibility to do that in a way that is factual.

    If they were to mention some of his results to back up this supposition then I wouldn't have so much of a problem.  If they were to suggest stuff in a well thought out manner - after considering such things as ...oh I dont know ... the conditions maybe - then perhaps I would give them a pass for making mistakes.

    But to make allegations or suggestions about a rider they know next to nothing about in that kind of manner - its really not good enough.

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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #503 on: April 11, 2013, 08:14 »
    Third year pro Valery Kaikov tests positive in an out-of-competition test for an unknown banned substance:

    http://www.rusvelo.ch/the-official-statement-from-rusvelo-team/
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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #504 on: April 11, 2013, 08:15 »
    Ffs I got the team right...
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #505 on: April 11, 2013, 09:32 »
    Quick plug for a mate of mine. Due out on June 7th, this is no ordinary Tour de France glossy preview magazine:



    http://www.alternativeditions.com/
    https://twitter.com/lapreuvepar21

    Yes, folks, it's a real magazine, not a joke. Here's a nice preview:

    http://en.calameo.com/read/0009252827ad495f0132d?authid=9U40diNbhpKW
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  • Zam

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #506 on: April 11, 2013, 09:57 »
    Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound 1m
    SA cyclist Seyffert tests positive for obesity med Phentermine
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  • search

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #507 on: April 11, 2013, 14:01 »
    Third year pro Valery Kaikov tests positive in an out-of-competition test for an unknown banned substance:

    http://www.rusvelo.ch/the-official-statement-from-rusvelo-team/

    GW1516 it is, that's interesting
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #508 on: April 11, 2013, 22:41 »
    For those who missed it, our old friend Ryo Hazuki commenting on youtube in response to the bozo commentators

    Quote
    I stopped listening after 30 seconds. I hope both of these clowns die a horrible death, no joking. quintana has always been clean and a mega talent since junior age. he was also national u23 itt champion when he was just 18 years old!
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Darkside - General news
    « Reply #509 on: April 11, 2013, 22:43 »
    Bassons has got his "Tony tough" groove on in today's Le Monde:



    http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/04/11/le-combat-sans-fin-du-heros-de-l-antidopage_3158571_3242.html

    Quote
    The eternal fight of the anti-doping hero

    The lawyers Jean-Christophe Lapouble and Philippe Veber know well enough that these days, even a Finance Minister can be guilty of tax fraud [a reference to Jérôme Cahuzac - L'arri], but they still don't get the paradox that befalls their client. How could it be that Christophe Bassons, - cycling's symbol of anti-doping, who got such a tough time in the peloton that it brought about the end of his career in the early 2000s, and who's now busy with the doping controls of the AFLD in Aquitaine where he has been a representative since 2002 - should now himself be punished for breaking the anti-doping rules? It's to put at end to this "aberration" that Christophe Bassons, backed by his two lawyers, now presents himself before AFLD disciplinary commission on Thursday in Paris.

    On October 20, 2012, the 38 year old from the Tarn region learned in a letter that he'd been suspended by the French Cycling Federation (FFC) for failing to appear at a doping control on September 1, following the MTB national championship marathon race at Langon (Ille-et-Vilaine). The rider had recently returned to his first love, the mountain bike, in 2011, ten years after retiring from professional cycling. Two months later, on appeal, the penality had been reduced to a month, a verdict that still didn't satisfy Christophe Bassons, who fully intends to get himself acquitted.

    The stubbornness of a federation

    On Thursday, before the AFLD bosses, the rider repeated the course of events of that infamous September 1. After more than three hours of racing, Bassons, in an hypoglycaemic state, abandoned 20km from the finish. He gave his name and race number to an official marshal, who notified his abandon to the race director. Without passing the finish area, Bassons went back to his car, parked not far from where he'd dropped out, went for a shower, got in the car, bought some sustenance at a bakery in the nearby village, and headed back towards Bordeaux, where he lives. Two hours later, while passing through the Vendée region, he got a 'phone call from the race organisers that he'd been selected for a doping control for which he should appear within the next half hour. The cyclist explain that he was by now too far from Langon but the line was poor and the rider wasn't sure that the person at the other end had properly heard him. Then the battery on his phone gave out. He decided to go home to Bordeaux anyway where he learned, two days later, that a violation had been noted which led some weeks later to the one-year suspension.

    Christophe Bassons accepts he was negligent for not going to the finish zone to check if his name was on the list of riders to control, but he considered himself to have proven that he had acted in good faith and that he had not in any case tried deliberately to duck the control. Furthermore, he underlined several times the severity of his punishment in comparison to other cases in which a year ban was handed out, such as one in which a rider was seen to throw his convocation notice on the ground and refuse to do the test.

    "They want to make Christophe Bassons pay for all the fighting against doping that he's done over the years," assured his lawyers, who denounced the stubbornness of a federation which has never been willing to listen to their client's side of the story. Bassons himself can't hide his weariness: "I'm sick of it. I have to live permanently with this saga and it makes me look stupid. It brings back bad memories. Whenever I'm asked a question about it, it puts me on edge. I've sacrificed my career and 15 years on, I'm still falling down." The AFLD will give its verdict "in three to four weeks' time".
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