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L'arri

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Re: Michael Rasmussen
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2013, 18:39 »
Fuglsang knows nothing about Rasmussen's doping: "I have nothing to fear"

http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1885852/fuglsang-kendte-intet-til-rasmussens-doping-jeg-har-ikke-noget-at-frygte-overhovedet/

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Jakob Fuglsang has learned that Rasmussen doped from 1998 to 2010. Even though the two riders trained together in Italy, Fuglsang says:

"I didn't know. Maybe I suspected him because he'd been banned among other things but I didn't know for sure and I never asked him," Fuglsang told TV2.

He expressed regret that Rasmussen gave in to the temptation to cheat for better results and a certain disappointment at the choice his friend had made.

"It doesn't strengthen my confidence in people. That's all I will say. Of course I'm disappointed, as I am every time someone stands up and admits they doped in the past," said Fuglsang.

[About Rasmussen's "telling everything", he says he has nothing to worry about]

"I have nothing to fear at all," he said.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #31 on: February 01, 2013, 20:23 »
    Which documentary is that?

    It is two series of documentaries consisting of 3 and 2 episodes respectively, one is called 'Tavshedens Pris' and the other  'Dansker Laegen' - here is a link to the relevant DR webpage, http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Dokumentar/Doping/20050530140756.htm

    The incident was while Nicky was racing in the lower ranks. It is worth a watch, there are no subtitles however, so unless you speak Danish and about 5 other european languages expect to be lost at times.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #32 on: February 01, 2013, 20:35 »
    It is two series of documentaries consisting of 3 and 2 episodes respectively, one is called 'Tavshedens Pris' and the other  'Dansker Laegen' - here is a link to the relevant DR webpage, http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Dokumentar/Doping/20050530140756.htm

    The incident was while Nicky was racing in the lower ranks. It is worth a watch, there are no subtitles however, so unless you speak Danish and about 5 other european languages expect to be lost at times.
    Hugo also speaks with a mouthfull of porridge. ;)
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #33 on: February 02, 2013, 00:55 »
    If he really naming names and methods, this is going to be INCREDIBLY hard for the UCI to contain.

    Wonder how long it will be before the UCI / Pat / Hein sue him too   :D
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #34 on: February 02, 2013, 09:55 »
    If he really naming names and methods, this is going to be INCREDIBLY hard for the UCI to contain.

    I don't think Michael Rasmussen has anything on the UCI, but they won't be able to control the case either, he has cooperated with WADA and the Danish, Dutch and American Anti Doping Authority.

    The Interesting thing is why he is cooperating with the USADA, what does he know that relates to them?
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #35 on: February 02, 2013, 10:10 »
    I don't think Michael Rasmussen has anything on the UCI, but they won't be able to control the case either, he has cooperated with WADA and the Danish, Dutch and American Anti Doping Authority.

    The Interesting thing is why he is cooperating with the USADA, what does he know that relates to them?

    American riders, remember 2006 for all 2007 for Levi, if Rasmussen has new information of American riders ie not named In usada reports or for doping past 2006.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #36 on: February 02, 2013, 10:51 »
    American riders, remember 2006 for all 2007 for Levi, if Rasmussen has new information of American riders ie not named In usada reports or for doping past 2006.

    Yes, but I would expect the WADA to handle that, he is not cooperating with the Russians although he almost certainly have evidence against Menchov, he must know a lot about something in America for it being too big for WADA to handle, not just one or two riders, he surely knows a lot of non danish, dutch and american riders who doped. As in the USASA report Levi didn't have to give evidence to the danish about Rasmussen, it was simply handed over. He must know something major to have to speak to them directly.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #37 on: February 02, 2013, 11:00 »
    He has spoken to Wada, maybe they referred him on?
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #38 on: February 02, 2013, 11:01 »
    when I say 'contain', I dont actually mean Armstrong style, I just meant contain the fallout of so many riders being implicated.

    UCI is so proud of their 'cycling is clean now' stuff, and how they were vindicated by Lance in the Oprah thing as he said they werent his friends ... they forget that if it comes out that genuinely 'everyone was doing it' - it reflects incredibly poorly on them
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #39 on: February 02, 2013, 11:06 »
    He has spoken to Wada, maybe they referred him on?

    Still then he should have been referred to the Russians as well, it is a public secret by now that Menchov doped, Rasmussen and Dekker statements could do it off with him, Boogerd has seemed open to talking as long as he isn't the only one, with Dekker and Rasmussen out of the bush, I think it could happen.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #40 on: February 02, 2013, 11:08 »
    when I say 'contain', I dont actually mean Armstrong style, I just meant contain the fallout of so many riders being implicated.

    UCI is so proud of their 'cycling is clean now' stuff, and how they were vindicated by Lance in the Oprah thing as he said they werent his friends ... they forget that if it comes out that genuinely 'everyone was doing it' - it reflects incredibly poorly on them

    Well yes and no I would say then, they will be the laughing stock of the sport, but they already are, and as corrupted as they are I can't see anything changing.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #41 on: February 02, 2013, 11:19 »
    when I say 'contain', I dont actually mean Armstrong style, I just meant contain the fallout of so many riders being implicated.

    UCI is so proud of their 'cycling is clean now' stuff, and how they were vindicated by Lance in the Oprah thing as he said they werent his friends ... they forget that if it comes out that genuinely 'everyone was doing it' - it reflects incredibly poorly on them

    It is not just UCI who have been selling 'Cycling is cleaner now'.

    Others might have egg on their face soon.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #42 on: February 04, 2013, 14:46 »
    In fact, Christina Watches is Garmin without the media. Sign a million 'ex' dopers, and two awesome Australian talents. Vaughters was the messiah for the same admitting publicly thing. One rules the press....

    Interesting comparison. From my viewpoint, in Denmark and (somewhat) following Danish media, they're more like Miche - but with the media. Anything and everything the team management does seems to be angled in a way to get maximum media exposure.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #43 on: February 04, 2013, 15:17 »
    I am rosy on CWO. Some of Schumacher's performances last year were still pretty brilliant as opposed to Rasmussen (who won what one race in CWO?), but I don't think Vaughters is better in this. And he's got cyclingnews to do his bidding after all ;)
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #44 on: February 05, 2013, 04:10 »
    Yes, but I would expect the WADA to handle that, he is not cooperating with the Russians although he almost certainly have evidence against Menchov, he must know a lot about something in America for it being too big for WADA to handle, not just one or two riders, he surely knows a lot of non danish, dutch and american riders who doped. As in the USASA report Levi didn't have to give evidence to the danish about Rasmussen, it was simply handed over. He must know something major to have to speak to them directly.

    The USADA connection seemed strange to me too. It could possibly be that he trusts them? I can totally understand why he wouldn't talk to the Russians...
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #45 on: February 05, 2013, 16:31 »
    The USADA connection seemed strange to me too. It could possibly be that he trusts them? I can totally understand why he wouldn't talk to the Russians...

    I think you might be right, I guess he might have talked to the Nationals only in the places where he deemed them trustworthy, and talked to WADA about the rest, I don't know much about the Russian DA, but if it like the Spanish then talking to WADA instead makes a lot of sense.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #47 on: March 11, 2013, 16:36 »
    Report: Doping on Danish road team at 2004 Olympics

    Interesting news, question is what three riders doped and what twos didn't, I think Hamburger can be assumed to have been clean, as he has just been named sport director at Christina Watches Onfone, if he doped he would know better than to lie when it is about the team that is being somewhat ran by Rasmussen. I would assume that Rasmussen was one of the three. Who was clean of the last three, if I had to guess I'd say Frank Høj, mostly because I think I remember both the two others from the documentary 'Dansker laegen' about danish cycling and doping.
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #48 on: March 11, 2013, 17:49 »
    Interesting news, question is what three riders doped and what twos didn't, I think Hamburger can be assumed to have been clean, as he has just been named sport director at Christina Watches Onfone, if he doped he would know better than to lie when it is about the team that is being somewhat ran by Rasmussen. I would assume that Rasmussen was one of the three. Who was clean of the last three, if I had to guess I'd say Frank Høj, mostly because I think I remember both the two others from the documentary 'Dansker laegen' about danish cycling and doping.

    Agreed the dots to the last 2 seem quite thick .
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #49 on: June 21, 2013, 13:58 »
    Not sure if this has been metioned in another thread, but Rasmussen has apperently named both Boogerd and Menchov as dopers during a dutch trial, involving money lost from not winning the tour if I'm not mistaken, he also states that Rabo was fully aware of what he was doing, him and Erik Breukink seemed to be involved in some mud slinging. http://m.b.dk/?article=24714899-Breukink-om-Kyllingen-Et-svin,-der-bare-vil-have-penge (Danish)

    Maybe also worth mentioning Rabo buying a blood value machine to "doping check riders them self to make extra sure they are clean" but then really using the numbers to check that they can't be caught, honestly that idea is pretty clever. http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/06/18/raboploeg-gebruikte-bloedmachine-om-doping-te-maskeren/?utm_campaign=rss&utm_source=syndication (Dutch)
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #50 on: August 29, 2013, 10:11 »
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    Lantern Rouge

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #52 on: September 26, 2013, 21:31 »
    Michael Rasmussen will have reduced its quarantine
    Michael Rasmussen is dif?'s Doping board has been sentenced to two-year suspension

    Yes, and I am quiet happy he was judged 100% in accordance with the rule book.  :cool

    Summary of MR's suspension:
    * He admitted extensive doping use for the entire periode 1998 until March 2010.
    * His 2nd-time offence (the first one was the 2yr whereabout suspension) would normally equal 8yr suspension.
    * Due to a full collaboration with DIF, he was awarded the maximum 75% suspension reduction, with a 2yr suspension from 8 Feb 2013 until 7 Feb 2015.
    * All his results within the 8yr statute of limitation - calculating back from his admission date - was also cancelled (25 January 2005 until March 2010).
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #53 on: September 26, 2013, 22:57 »
    Yes, and I am quiet happy he was judged 100% in accordance with the rule book.  :cool

    Summary of MR's suspension:
    * He admitted extensive doping use for the entire periode 1998 until March 2010.
    * His 2nd-time offence (the first one was the 2yr whereabout suspension) would normally equal 8yr suspension.
    * Due to a full collaboration with DIF, he was awarded the maximum 75% suspension reduction, with a 2yr suspension from 8 Feb 2013 until 7 Feb 2015.
    * All his results within the 8yr statute of limitation - calculating back from his admission date - was also cancelled (25 January 2005 until March 2010).

    Well congratulations to new TdF KOM winners . Óscar Pereiro and David de la Fuente I suppose, they will probably get to keep their results, just because the eight years are soon up, I wonder why not just asterix the people that cheated, and do it whenever it is found out, not really much changed, instead of one doper winning twice we now have Pereiro (One of the many riders to both have asthma and to use a gynocologyst named Fuentes alledgedly) and de la Fuente (Who is currently riding for much critisised team Torku Şeker Spor) Not much has changed really if you ask me, I am beginning to think removing any results is pointless, sure if someone tests possitive duing the Tour kick them out, but if they complete the Tour just Asterix them, it makes little sense to award a tittle to someone else 6 or 7 years later.

    An interesting question is what is the statue of limitatation for Pereiro's new KoM win, is it 8 years from the end of the '05 Tour or is it 8 years from when it was surrendered by Rasmussen?
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  • Lantern Rouge

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #54 on: September 27, 2013, 08:27 »
    I am beginning to think removing any results is pointless, sure if someone tests possitive duing the Tour kick them out, but if they complete the Tour just Asterix them, it makes little sense to award a tittle to someone else 6 or 7 years later.

    An interesting question is what is the statue of limitatation for Pereiro's new KoM win, is it 8 years from the end of the '05 Tour or is it 8 years from when it was surrendered by Rasmussen?
    My expressed joy that MR's results were cancelled according to the rule book, was only because we last month discussed the need for USADA and all other international federations to judge all athletes equal according to the DSQ rules in the antidoping code. I however fully support your view, that DSQs does not make any sence when we deal with the "dark era of cycling". In fact it works quiet opposite and detrimental, as it reward the runner-up doped riders who chooses never to confess about their doping sins (or only do so after the statute of limitations has expired). In that sence the current DSQ rules are ridiculous. It only make sence to apply the current DSQ rules, the moment cycling enter a "clean era", where we reasonably can assume the runner-ups competed clean and were cheated by the doped winner.

    As we have strong indication that the vast majority of riders doped throughout the entire period 1 Jan 1966 (when UCI adopted the first antidoping rules and antidoping tests) until 1 Jan 2007 (being the first season after Operacion Puerto), my own proposal goes, that UCI+WADA should cancel all their previously ruled "result disqualifications" for this period (replacing it with the approach only to asterix the doped results). In my point of view, we need to have a line drawed in the sand by a Truth and Reconcilliation Commission. If this commission finds that Operacion Puerto was not a wake-up call and game changer for at least 51% of the peloton, then I can accept if they move the line from 1 Jan 2007 to 1 Jan 2008 (the enactment date for the biological blood passport).

    I acknowledge this is all a legal mine field, and most likely CAS will never accept any rule changes to be applied retrospectively, because of the general legal principle that only the rules in force by the time of the disputed events - can be used to judge these disputes. The problem here is not only about how we publish the historic result tables, but also that previously doping-DSQ'ed riders have been ruled to transfer their race premiums to the next rider in the classification. In example this mean, that Floyd Landis in 2006 had to repay all his TDF race premiums to Oscar Pereiro. So if we suddenly give DSQ amnesty backwards in history, then Oscar Pereiro would also need to repay Landis a trunkful of Money. And if UCI admits the majority of riders were doped in 2006 and offer them amnesty, Landis would then also in legal terms be allowed to sue UCI to pay additional compensation for being judged disproportionally tough (as his conviction resulted not only in a 2yr suspension - but left him with a doping stamp preventing him ever again to sign contracts with any top teams in Cycling), while other doped riders in the peloton -like Oscar Pereiro- are now offered amnesty.

    For sure I support the amnesty and asterix approach for Cycling's dark era. But it will not be easy to implement, and will require those riders affected by historic race premium changes also accept that all historic results should stand - without making claims for compensation and on paper perhaps a rightful premium-upgrade. I am more reluctant to accept asterix of doped results achieved recently (in the environment where the majority of riders compete clean). In example, if a doping test next week reveal that Froome won the 2013 Tour doped, and thus had achieved his result by cheating his competitors, then it would be wrong and transmit a wrong signal to the clean riders, if UCI just grant him an asterix and let him keep all his TDF race premiums. In such case, I think we still need to have DSQ and forfeiture of race premiums imposed - along with his two year suspension.

    Perhaps a compromise or idea could be, that we in the future operate with two statute of limitations. The first could be WADAs current 8yr statute of limitations for suspensions (which I think anyway is impossible to convince the majority of sports federations in WADA to change), and then UCI could implement a seperate statute of limitations for DSQ of doped results being only 1yr ? In this way all later doping convictions ruled more than 1yr after the event took place, would only result in suspensions and no DSQs, so that riders are still punished while history is not re-written. If we completely remove DSQs in the future, then it would certainly not deter the likes of Chris Horner (old riders with a last shot to win something big) to heavily dope in his last GT (because he can keep all his earned race premiums even if getting busted by a later positive doping test, and the 2yr suspension being no threat because he is anyway just about to end his career). So for the future, I think we need still to have some sort of DSQs in place -along with retrospective tests- simply to deter the riders away from a potential doping path.
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  • « Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 08:58 by Lantern Rouge »

    just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #55 on: October 30, 2013, 07:00 »
    In his coming book "Gul Feber" (yellow fever) Michael Rasmussen reveals that Bjarne Riis knew everything about a widespread doping-abuse on CSC-Tiscali.

    could this be the 1st real tell all - An editor of B.T., Jacob Staehelin, states that “Michael Rasmussen does not appear (in the book) as a remorseful man. He would do it again had he the chance. From his point of view he has competed on even terms against his rivals.”

    I think that might be the same for most
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #56 on: October 30, 2013, 07:03 »
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #57 on: October 30, 2013, 07:28 »
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #58 on: October 30, 2013, 07:36 »
    ha ha Rolf Sørensen the real truth myust come out now  :D

    Michael Rasmussen was doping by Rolf Sørensen
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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #59 on: October 30, 2013, 07:46 »
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