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KeithJamesMc

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Re: Michael Rasmussen
« Reply #90 on: November 03, 2013, 21:23 »
Wonder what -
1. Saxobank will do about Niki Sorenson?
2. Greenedge will do about Weening?
3. Sky will say about Flecha?
4. Katusha will say about Menchov?
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #91 on: November 03, 2013, 21:35 »
    Wonder what -
    1. Saxobank will do about Niki Sorenson?
    2. Greenedge will do about Weening?
    3. Sky will say about Flecha?
    4. Katusha will say about Menchov?


    I think both teams will say nothing about it
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  • Dim

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #92 on: November 03, 2013, 21:36 »
    The most interesting there is the words "received from the team"

    nah. think we knew that :D
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  • Dim

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #93 on: November 03, 2013, 21:37 »
    I think both teams will say nothing about it

    Sky will say "we asked him, he said we didnt, we believed him"
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #94 on: November 03, 2013, 21:39 »
    Wonder what -
    3. Sky will say about Flecha?

    The biggest questions Sky still have to answer are the ones about Leinders not Flecha
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #95 on: November 03, 2013, 21:44 »
    nah. think we knew that :D

    It seemed most teams had moved on to riders providing for themselves, interesting to see it not being the case with Rabo. Could be just a doctor and team overlooking. big difference to actively providing.

    Post Merge: November 03, 2013, 21:50
    Wonder what -
    1. Saxobank will do about Niki Sorenson?
    2. Greenedge will do about Weening?
    3. Sky will say about Flecha?
    4. Katusha will say about Menchov?

    1 Nothing pretty sure both him and Riis has talked a deal with ADD, they answer the questions all the same.
    2 Unless something worse comes out, nothing.
    3 That they didn't know
    4 Honestly as shady as some other guys on that team is I can't see a guy that didn't even get busted while with them doing much damage.
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  • KeithJamesMc

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #96 on: November 03, 2013, 22:33 »
    It seemed most teams had moved on to riders providing for themselves, interesting to see it not being the case with Rabo. Could be just a doctor and team overlooking. big difference to actively providing.

    Post Merge: November 03, 2013, 21:50
    1 Nothing pretty sure both him and Riis has talked a deal with ADD, they answer the questions all the same.
    2 Unless something worse comes out, nothing.
    3 That they didn't know
    4 Honestly as shady as some other guys on that team is I can't see a guy that didn't even get busted while with them doing much damage.
    1 For someone like Riis to get a "deal", he has to give up someone more important - and that is the UCI. I can't see it myself.
    2 Greenedge are under massive pressure and the Aussie media will pick up on it. Greenedge will have to do something.
    3 Agree
    4 Katusha will take the same approach as Sky, but no-one will ask questions.
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  • del1962

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #97 on: November 03, 2013, 22:54 »
    So Niemann say he stopped doping in 2003, and Rasmussen contradicts this, does Ras have evidence that all his teamates where doping in 2007 tour?

    Did Flecha leave because he couln not sign zero tolerance document or other reason, don't think his case really damages Sky
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  • pastronef

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #98 on: November 03, 2013, 23:54 »
    Mike Kaltoft Jensen ‏@MikeKaltoft  6m 
    MR: "I hope Froome is clean, and if he is, he's the strongest rider ever to have set his foot on the planet"

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  • Jamsque

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #99 on: November 04, 2013, 10:20 »
    Really sad if it's true about Flecha and Freire.
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  • ansimi

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #100 on: November 04, 2013, 10:46 »
    Does Rasmussen's allegation about the 2007 Tour team all doping leave open the possibility that some of the riders might have just been getting cortisone or other drugs that might have been on a TUE?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #101 on: November 04, 2013, 11:01 »
    Does Rasmussen's allegation about the 2007 Tour team all doping leave open the possibility that some of the riders might have just been getting cortisone or other drugs that might have been on a TUE?

    Yes, might be

    Really sad if it's true about Flecha and Freire.

    Freire was for me , as I said in the rabo thread not unexpected but ...
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    benotti69

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #102 on: November 04, 2013, 13:06 »
    Yes, might be

    Freire was for me , as I said in the rabo thread not unexpected but ...

    Cmon JSG, did you really think when Armstrong left he took all the doping with him?

    What i dont understand is how people are still willing to suspend logic when todays sport is still full of the doping enablers. Leidners went to work for Sky, the so called 'clean' team!!! I mean this myth of the sport being clean that GTs can be won by clean riders is exaclty that, imo, a myth.

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    just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #103 on: November 04, 2013, 13:11 »
    Cmon JSG, did you really think when Armstrong left he took all the doping with him?

    What i dont understand is how people are still willing to suspend logic when todays sport is still full of the doping enablers. Leidners went to work for Sky, the so called 'clean' team!!! I mean this myth of the sport being clean that GTs can be won by clean riders is exaclty that, imo, a myth.

    Never said I was surprised or that he was clean.

    Sad whole different thing, you can "know" a rider is dirty and still be sad, disappointed etc if confirmed.

    As for your myth everyday it seems 1 riders gets called a sook, nutcase loner but never a doper   :D

    Stir stir stir
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #104 on: November 05, 2013, 10:06 »
    Niki Sorensen says cortisone was for a knee issue had a tue and has spoken to ADD

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393921-Nicki-Soerensen-afviser-Kyllingens-anklage-Jeg-maatte-godt-tage-kortison

    And Rasmussen changes what the 100% 2007 tdf rabo team wide program

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393254-Kylling-paa-retraete-Maa-traekke-anklager-tilbage
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  • KeithJamesMc

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #105 on: November 05, 2013, 10:15 »
    Niki Sorensen says cortisone was for a knee issue had a tue and has spoken to ADD

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393921-Nicki-Soerensen-afviser-Kyllingens-anklage-Jeg-maatte-godt-tage-kortison
    He doesn't deny the EPO in the garden story though which is far more problematic to him

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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #106 on: November 05, 2013, 10:24 »
    He doesn't deny the EPO in the garden story though which is far more problematic to him

    I think that is the ADD section , unkle bjarne is to  ADD as Armstrong was to USADA I think.

    Get him at all costs forget the rest
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  • Joachim

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #107 on: November 05, 2013, 10:46 »
    Mike Kaltoft Jensen ‏@MikeKaltoft  6m 
    MR: "I hope Froome is clean, and if he is, he's the strongest rider ever to have set his foot on the planet"

    This is the headline accusation, isn't it. The one that ought to grab attention.

    Several possibilities here.  One of which is that his statement is true (although that would involve him knowing that every comparable performance was doped). Some of the other possibilities involve him having a book to sell.

    ;)
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    Jamsque

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #108 on: November 05, 2013, 11:03 »
    And Rasmussen changes what the 100% 2007 tdf rabo team wide program

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393254-Kylling-paa-retraete-Maa-traekke-anklager-tilbage

    A bit late for this, the damage to Flecha and Freire is already done, whether the allegations are true or not.
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #109 on: November 05, 2013, 11:50 »
    I think that is the ADD section , unkle bjarne is to  ADD as Armstrong was to USADA I think.

    Get him at all costs forget the rest

    I don't think so, Bjarne and Nicky has responded quite a lot in the same way to all questions. First they had silence, and Bjarne went missing. Then there approach has been the same "We respect the ongoing investigation, and won't comment on allegations as we chose to respect the ongoing investigation" To be honest I'm more and more leaning towards Bjarne and Nicky both having spilled all to the ADD. Notice also that while Nicky was pulled from Tour and Giro teams because Bjarne feared it breaking, he was included for the Vuelta, he knew it wouldn't break? Also Nicky and Bjarne have had extensive meetings with ADD, I think Bjarne may very well have spoken.
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  • Francois the Postman

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #110 on: November 05, 2013, 12:47 »
    Over the years, so many of the folk I really liked were found out to be at it at some point, that I have not just become utterly unwilling to stick my hand into the fire for any of them, but nowadays I'd still refuse to do it even if I knew I was dragged kicking and screaming to one of those tacky fake-log-fire screen-savers, and I was allowed to wear kitchen gloves to boot.

    But in the current climate, for Rasmussen to make such a sweeping accusation, and then retract it for 2 headline names within 24hrs, that makes me regret that I really liked him as a rider, at one point. He's tumbled down faster for me than he took the Pyrenees with Contador. And that, apparently, requires something special.

    He knows he's in the spotlight and in the current climate, any of his words will make headlines (and sell books). If you then become either this careless, or, worse, calculated cavalier with the truth and the reputation of others, you are kinda showing yourself as a disgruntled simpleton on a mission to cash in, or a self-serving arse on a mission to cash in. Take your p(r)ick.

    When the Rabo vs Chicken tussle started, on balance I was initially on Rasmussen's side. On a root-canal vs minor-cavity balance. But over the last few years, given how he has dealt with the aftermath(s), all his revelations seem to have only one goal: the continuing betterment of Mr Rasmussen.

    It's one thing to hang onto the earnings you raked in when the going was good and you got away with, like Menchov et al. Similar, for having been found out with your hand in the cookie jar and settling for a mild slap in exchange for paying some lip-service to cleaning up the sport, so you still get to walk away with most of the biscuits (Lance's little Elves). But you have to be an absolute arse to head back to the bakery because you feel they still owe you a lot more than the generous crumbs you were able to stash into your bank account at the time of the robberies.

    Rasmussen sounds like he still feels deeply short-changed by it all, when in reality the only legitimate frustration I can see, is that there were simply better, and certainly luckier crooks in his particular gang of highway robbers. Do yourself a favour, count your chickens and realize that you had no right to most of those feathers to begin with.

    So, and increasingly so, I am now glad he didn't win the case against Rabo. Not so much because Rabo was able to hang onto the damages claimed, but because Rasmussen wasn't rewarded a new sum of money that career cheats shouldn't be walking away with at this point in the game. No more. Rabo didn't gain anything at the trial, that money was all spent long ago. Rasmussen would have earned himself a fresh nest-egg that most people need to work very long and hard for, and honestly. The big money gain if you win or lose needs to come out of cycling (not just cycling, but hey).

    If any of them had stood up and made a stand when they could have made a real difference in the battle against Omerta, I could have had some peace with them going after their employer(s) if they had a case. If they stuck their head out when they had only things to lose, as opposed to mere attempts to hang onto things once the game has been called. Now, it's just one found-out crook going after another found-out cook, and suddenly some of them want rules and laws applied to get their justice. 

    Actually, if a judge ruled against a rider even if the law was on his side, cheating him out of a win by breaking the rules, somehow that would feel like the sort of supreme justice Mr Rasmussen & Crew have handsomely earned, in my book.

    If it would be possible for Judges to award a win and damages, and then also have the option to divert those away to an appropriate charity or cause, rather than the 'aggrieved' party, even better. Maybe it would result in things being evened out properly. And we'd have more priceless facial expressions in court too, no doubt. "The court rules in favour of Mr Rasmussen... [pause for smug and shocked faces]... with substantial damages.... [pause for more shock and delight]... and also rules that the reward for the damages claimed should go to cycling's anti-doping fund... [sit back and enjoy the transition from smug to shock, then gloat and leave them both to pick up the pieces and bills]."

    Were Freire and Flecha clean throughout their career? How menacing is the fire?
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  • benotti69

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #111 on: November 05, 2013, 12:54 »
    <snipped for brevity>
    Were Freire and Flecha clean throughout their career? How menacing is the fire?

    The fire is a raging volcano FtP. Is was ever thus.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #112 on: November 05, 2013, 14:09 »
    Niki Sorensen says cortisone was for a knee issue had a tue and has spoken to ADD

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393921-Nicki-Soerensen-afviser-Kyllingens-anklage-Jeg-maatte-godt-tage-kortison

    And Rasmussen changes what the 100% 2007 tdf rabo team wide program

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393254-Kylling-paa-retraete-Maa-traekke-anklager-tilbage

    Well not totally changed. just says he didn't see them. Not that the whole team wasn't doped. Assumedly the only one you see dope is your roommate.

    My mate plays piano. never seen him play the piano. but i know fora fact he plays.
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #113 on: November 05, 2013, 14:59 »
    But in the current climate, for Rasmussen to make such a sweeping accusation, and then retract it for 2 headline names within 24hrs, that makes me regret that I really liked him as a rider, at one point. He's tumbled down faster for me than he took the Pyrenees with Contador. And that, apparently, requires something special.

    I'm not sure I agree, honestly I'm just happy to finally get the truth for ones, and Rasmussen just threw out those 100% in no time, he probably knew, but didn't have any proof. The fact that he only withdrew on the two Spaniards also suggest that he knew that would be where he could possibly lose a trial based on what he said. As far as his career goes I think it is fair to say that he was screwed over pretty big by Jesper Worre, the danish equivalent of an incompetent UCI boss. Jesper Worre broke the rules and went talking to the media about Rasmussen's two were about violations, a breach of the rules, also Worre did not lose his job because of it, which still today annoys me. Honestly his trial from a fairness point of view I sort of see, Rabo knew he doped, everybody else in contention doped (I'd retract Alberto's name already, but he tested positive later on) Whether or not he should have the money, I don't really care, but it for sure is a lot better than Rabo having it. I think he is telling the truth now, and I am happy to hear the truth finally. Even though Michael obviously benefits financially from talking I think it is right that if cycling is to ever move on these half confessions have to stop, The people that are caught but doesn't try to clean up the mess they helped create should not be in the sport anymore, the people that say I did it all on my own and only doped for the years where any proof has appeared that is the people that really bug me, they are insulting me and every other fan for thinking that we don't know what is going on. And as far as Michael naming people I think not naming people is worse, well person #1 did this and person #2 did this, and then we can have a guessing game like the USADA redacted names thing, until it is accepted that Rider 15 is a certain rider. But what if rider 15 was not that rider. Is exposing somebody that did something wrong not far less bad then telling a half truth that falls back on somebody who was clean all along? I would have loved if Michael had included a list of riders who he knew rode clean in a period when he rode with them, would have been nice to have had a positive message out there.
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #114 on: November 05, 2013, 20:57 »
    Niki Sorensen says cortisone was for a knee issue had a tue and has spoken to ADD

    http://m.bt.dk/?article=27393921-Nicki-Soerensen-afviser-Kyllingens-anklage-Jeg-maatte-godt-tage-kortison
    Yeah, Nicki, just keep telling yourself that. :cheesy
    Honestly, his being-up-to-no-good has been an open secret for over a year now.
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    DB-Coop

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #115 on: November 06, 2013, 22:29 »
    his being-up-to-no-good has been an open secret for over a year now.

    If by over a year you mean well over ten years sure, he was already exposed in the documentary 'Dansker Lægen' In case you haven't watched I can strongly recommend it. http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Dokumentar/Doping/
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #117 on: November 07, 2013, 17:57 »
    The underpants is always good for storing some stash.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #118 on: November 07, 2013, 18:20 »
    The underpants is always good for storing some stash.

    flipping sponge bob square pants drug dealing cartoon  :s

    Sorry for the ot

    Carry on
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  • DB-Coop

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    Re: Michael Rasmussen
    « Reply #119 on: December 30, 2013, 20:52 »
    Finally had the time to read MR's book, a very good read, and as suspected the press about it was completely misleading. The scandals that danish media focused on was not at all what was the essential part of the book. I mean most people already knew that Nicky was dirty, and with Hesjedahls past it is hard to think that one has not considered it an option. But really the sport was so dirty that almost everybody did it, so while getting the names out is good, I don't think that it is at all a scandal. For it to be a scandal I think it has to surprise people, make them upset. The "scandals" brought up by Danish news sites really does not do that. However the most serious point in the book, which has largely been left out in the media picture is the role of UCI, ASO, DCU and Rabobank. As for Rabobank there was some coverage, but they did not take it further, saying if Rabo knew, did all the other teams also know? UCI has been mentioned a bit, but only for covering over a positive, not for bending the rules afterwards to keep MR out of the sport. The book confirms the general view of UCI as a doping regulator more than anything. Don't get caught outright and you can race. ASO is represented in the book as having a strange stance they try to keep MR from making a comeback, generally I would say ASO seems consistent in their attitude but that they seem not to respect the length of bans. The biggest issue in the book that hasn't been mentioned in the media is DCU's role. DCU seems very unprofessional and seem to run a personal vendetta against MR, which may not have finished yet. Worre comes of as a dictator and puts personal interest over the sport, and cleaning the sport up. Also upon MR coming back from his suspension he does everything in his power to stop him. But I suppose there will always be those who does not believe in second chances I suppose, speaking of which http://www.dopeology.org/people/Jesper_Worre/
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