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just some guy

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what is shaping up as likely is announcements tomorrow or tuesday that Essendon will probably be charged with "bringing the game into disrepute" ... and the club will be stripped of premiership points for this season, perhaps some draft picks for next year or the next couple, a fine and possibly sanctions against the management, coaching and medical staff.

The ASADA report is apparently very of Essendon's management and control/governance ... but does not actually recommend charges to be laid against the players.

So - we have a completely ridiculous situation of ASADA having investigated for over 6 months now ... with the club captain coming out on national television ADMITTING to taking PED's ... and ASADA still saying 'we dont think sanctions against the players can be proven.

:fp

If that happens (what the media are suggesting) ... then I think WADA will appeal.

agreed
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    AG

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    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/players-still-in-asada-sights-20130811-2rq9t.html

    This makes a bit more sense.

    The interim report was simply so that the AFL could use their own 'bringing the game into disrepute' powers to kick essendon out of the finals and sanction the officials ... the players can be charged later in due course.  There isnt the same time pressures to bring the charges against them.

    Though if they on their 6 month ban starting from 1 September so they play again in round 1 then they would need to hurry up.    Could back date it I suppose, but still ...
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  • Tuart

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    HaveEssendonBeenDockedPointsYet.com.au

    It is Monday....
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    AG

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    not yet.   tonight or tomorrow they will be charged.

    Probably wont find out suggested penalties for 2 more weeks ...
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  • just some guy

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    The AFL is planning to announce charges against Essendon and potentially a number of individuals, including senior coach James Hird, at 9am on Tuesday.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendons-future-still-uncertain-20130812-2rsbk.html#ixzz2bkhDIace
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  • Tuart

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    It's always tomorrow.
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  • Arb

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    Smart move to go early before the day's politics talking points become headlines.
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  • Tuart

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    They've been in discussion since 9am? They've nearly spent a whole work day on it.

    Told you tomorrow never comes :D
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  • Arb

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    just some guy

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    The AFL will provide an update on whether it will charge Essendon over its supplements program at 7.30pm.
    Andrew Dillon will talk to the media about whether the AFL will charge the Bombers following the Australian Sport Anti-Doping Authority’s interim report into the saga.


    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-to-provide-update-on-essendon-scandal-20130813-2rtye.html#ixzz2bq40dZyi
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  • Arb

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    They have to face the AFL August 26 to receive their engineered punishment, good luck boys.
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  • Tuart

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    Except the players walk free! Pathetic.

    That's like the UCI letting the Festina riders continue on and just penalising the DS.
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  • Arb

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    What evidence is there of the players orchestrating it?

    Whether or not they are sanctioned by ASADA is another matter, but there's no way an AFL punishment on the players would hold up in court.
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  • Tuart

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    Didn't we just have a report from ASADA saying that they're not charging players? If the AFL aren't too, who does?
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  • just some guy

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    The AFL has charged Essendon, coach James Hird, doctor Bruce Reid, football boss Danny Corcoran and assistant coach Mark Thompson with bringing the game into disrepute over the club's supplements program.
    AFL general counsel Andrew Dillon announced the charges on Tuesday night. A hearing before the AFL Commission will be held on Monday August 26.


    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-hird-charged-with-bringing-game-into-disrepute-20130813-2rtye.html#ixzz2bqBQxUP8

    So what of Points etc

    Agree re players ,  ASADA will be doing the banning if any on this I think
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  • just some guy

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    Didn't we just have a report from ASADA saying that they're not charging players? If the AFL aren't too, who does?

    Interim report for the AFL before finals the final may well be different

    the weird one ofc is Watson  he admitted on TV he took a banned drug , but I think all this ends with WADA going to CAS as AG said before 
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  • Arb

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    Didn't we just have a report from ASADA saying that they're not charging players? If the AFL aren't too, who does?

    What are they going to charge them with? The BTGID charge would be a lot harder to stick on the players who basically did what they were told. There isn't really any information as to which players took what and who was more proactive than others. It may be found that they acted irresponsibly as a group but it would be highly unlikely that there's evidence of wrongdoing on behalf of individual players. That is the case especially if they are not found guilty of any breaches of the Code by ASADA, all the AFLPA would have to do is point to that outcome.
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  • thrawn

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    Well they did use the words at this time. Not sure if it means they're going to get off, or if they are just delaying it until the end of the season.

    Anyhow, if the coaches are found to have implemented a doping program they should all get life bans.
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  • Tuart

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    You're right, they can't be charged with BTGID but the players with a big chance of getting off free (even if the club doesn't) is absurd. How can they not know which players took what? One has even admitted to it in public!
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  • AG

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    the players will be charged later - when ASADA hands down the final report.

    This report was just an interim, to fit with AFL timing so that they could strip essendon before the finals.  ASADA will use their new powers to force Steven Dank to give evidence ... then charge the players.

    ASADA simply cannot afford not to - think of what would happen to their funding if they concluded that there wasnt enough evidence after Watson confessed on national television.

    http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/vfl-player-wade-lees-cops-18-month-ban-for-importing-performance-enhancing-drugs/story-fnelctok-1226541380732

    earlier this year, VFL player Wade Less was banned for 18 months for importing a prohibited substance.  He never received the supplement - it was intercepted by customs.  Ordering it was enough ...

    ASADA do not have to prove the players actually TOOK the substance ... consenting to it is enough - and they all signed a consent form.

    Players are screwed - they just havent been charged yet.
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  • just some guy

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    thank god for the herald sun  :D
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  • AG

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    Its odd - Jobe Watson has come out with a statement saying the players feel "vidicated" by them not being charged.

    But my understanding of the AFL's statement was 'there was no evidence or recommendations in the interim report' with which to charge the players.    That is a far cry from actually clearing them or saying that they wont be charged.    The interim report - from all accounts - was heavily based around the lack of governance at Essendon and the fact that the club could not detail exactly what was given to its players.

    The final report when it comes, will come with recommendations ... which may then include charges for doping ...

    ASADA has said today

    Quote
    “Given this investigation is ongoing, ASADA is not providing any further comment on its interim report. As we have previously noted, it is a complex investigation and ASADA has a duty of care to be both thorough and accurate in every step of the process,” an ASADA spokesman said.

    “Should ASADA form the view at the conclusion of its investigation that a person may have committed an anti-doping rule violation ASADA will follow its established process”.

    It is not up to the AFL to initiate doping charges against players.

    The media remains quite convinced that the players are in the clear ... but I just cant see it.


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  • just some guy

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    Its odd - Jobe Watson has come out with a statement saying the players feel "vidicated" by them not being charged.

    But my understanding of the AFL's statement was 'there was no evidence or recommendations in the interim report' with which to charge the players.    That is a far cry from actually clearing them or saying that they wont be charged.    The interim report - from all accounts - was heavily based around the lack of governance at Essendon and the fact that the club could not detail exactly what was given to its players.

    The final report when it comes, will come with recommendations ... which may then include charges for doping ...

    ASADA has said today

    The media remains quite convinced that the players are in the clear ... but I just cant see it.

    and WADA have already stated there view on 1 drug , so there should be a 2 year ban for Watson , if that was EPO it would be done
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  • Arb

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    lol, apparently Vlad did a Fat Pat and told Essendon they were being investigated?

    Also seems MH is now involved with Essendon, wonder what we need to do to get him over for a troll.

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3825844.htm
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  • AG

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    I dont actually understand how Essendon can call into question the right of the AFL to lay charges here - or wider that the AFL should not hear the case ...


    Essendon are arguing that
    a)   The AFL does not have the right to lay charges until ASADA investigation is complete
    b)  The AFL should not be able to use the ASADA interim report in its case, and
    c)  That the AFL should not be hearing/conducting the case due to conflicts of interest

    But I dont get these arguments.

    Essendon and some of its staff are charged with breaching the AFL code of conduct.  Why should the AFL not have the right to bring these charges?  Its the code that all clubs, players and officials sign up to, and its up to the AFL to enforce it.    Why would any other body hear a case alleging a breach of this code?   The AFL Commssion heard the case against Ben Cousins for this, and also the case against Adelaide ... what makes Essendon so special?

    As far as the ASADA interim report - the investigation being conducted by ASADA is not complete ... but the evidence in the report still exists.  Those interviews still happened, the evidence is still evidence.  Just because ASADA hasnt reached a conclusion yet about whether or not the substances given to the players were in accordance with the WADA code, it doesnt mean that the AFL should not be able to bring its own case against the club under its code of conduct.

    The club injected multiple players with unknown and unidentified supplements on an ongoing basis ... in a manner that put the health and welfare of the players in jeopardy.  The club cannot even identify WHAT was given to the players.   That is not something the AFL wants associated with its brand ... and certainly brings the game into disrepute.     

    Its getting messier by the minute though.  Essendon will no doubt get their injunction ... play in the finals and then the lawyers will go at it later   :rolleye

    Going to make the finals a huge mess ...
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  • rata

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    I dont actually understand how Essendon can call into question the right of the AFL to lay charges here - or wider that the AFL should not hear the case ...
    Hird is actually quite delusional. Is he actually surrounded by a bunch of acolytes? because whoever is advising him doesn't seem grounded in reality.

    His blithe lack of concern is starting to really annoy me. The only good thing is that Essendon keep getting thrashed it would be really bad if they were winning.

    Unfortunately the people who seemed to have a conscience about all this at Essendon have actually resigned and they may have actually had little real responsibility.

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  • rata

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    Also seems MH is now involved with Essendon, wonder what we need to do to get him over for a troll.
    I thought MH was banned in Victoria under the 2011 amendments to the Crimes Act covering menacing dogs and other vicious breeds.
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  • just some guy

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    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-case-goes-into-extra-time-20130819-2s7gw.html

    The threat of a Supreme Court injunction by James Hird's legal team has been alleviated at the 11th hour with the AFL granting the Essendon coach extra time to fight his conduct unbecoming charges.

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  • AG

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    AFL are in major backpedal motion now ...

    They have agreed to the extra time because they know that essendon will get an injunction anyway.  The thing is, you cant give them 2 weeks to prepare for that kind of case, and allow a few days to hear it.  Its never going to happen that way ... so they either had to do a deal, or grant the extension.

    It does mean that Essendon will play finals - NOT what they had in mind

    (bearing in mind, ASADA only gave the interim report in order that Essendon could be charged before the finals ... which to me implies that the AFL intended that essendon be stripped of points)

    Without charges from ASADA - or full information that they DID actually take PED's, the AFL have a harder case.  With charges, charging the club is a slam dunk.   

    The interesting thing will be - if they DO find them guilty after the finals, what the penalty will be.  Does the AFL have the balls to strip them of points next year?  Is that really in the best interest of hte game?  and if they dont ... how to stamp out this behaviour in other clubs whilst going soft...
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