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Echoes

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Probably the former Dalai-Lama avatar and recommendation to self-hypnosis relaxation technique confused me. Anyway I cannot imagine a Sagan fan who does not have the same narcissistic and attention-seeking behaviour as him. Probably because I like riders for their personality first and not that much for their talents. I never hated a rider before (unlike some might have thought). Even Armstrong, I didn't care because he did not really race "my" races. With that man it's different. If I talk too much about him, I'll get banned ...
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  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    hiero

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    Probably the former Dalai-Lama avatar and recommendation to self-hypnosis relaxation technique confused me. Anyway I cannot imagine a Sagan fan who does not have the same narcissistic and attention-seeking behaviour as him. Probably because I like riders for their personality first and not that much for their talents. I never hated a rider before (unlike some might have thought). Even Armstrong, I didn't care because he did not really race "my" races. With that man it's different. If I talk too much about him, I'll get banned ...

    Ah, I see. I do have some Buddhist tendencies in my mores, but I'm not what anyone would call a Buddhist. And meditation, or self-hypnosis sessions, and/or relaxation techniques are a very useful thing I've talked about on occasion. Not often, but when the soap box is there, I'll stand on it.

    Personally, I think it would be hard for a Sagan fan to be like him - he is one of a kind. I would not have used narcissistic or attention-seeking as descriptors for him any more. The first year, both words popped up quickly in thoughts regarding his behavior. But having watched him, and looking for both those traits, I no longer think them applicable. Flamboyant, yes. Fun-loving, mischievous, yes. Clever, yes. Competitive, extremely yes. But also honorable, considerate, temperate (unlike some hot-heads in the peloton like, say, Bouhanni?) And massively talented on the bike.

    One thing for sure, people don't usually call me narcissistic or attention-seeking! But I've never been able to stand out in a crowd the way Sagan does.
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  • Faut y croire!

    Slow Rider

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    Probably the former Dalai-Lama avatar and recommendation to self-hypnosis relaxation technique confused me. Anyway I cannot imagine a Sagan fan who does not have the same narcissistic and attention-seeking behaviour as him. Probably because I like riders for their personality first and not that much for their talents. I never hated a rider before (unlike some might have thought). Even Armstrong, I didn't care because he did not really race "my" races. With that man it's different. If I talk too much about him, I'll get banned ...

    Well there's the difference I guess. I don't give a crap what a rider acts like when not on his bike, I want to see him race. And there is no rider with a better racing attitude than Sagan.

    You can't imagine a Buddhist liking Sagan for his personality, I can't imagine a cycling fan not liking him for his riding.

    With his kind of riding, he could be a misogynic Justin Bieber loving neo-Nazi wearing cargo shorts who routinely uses the 'crying with laughter' emoticon to indicate mild amusement on social media - I'd still be a fan[1]
     1. OK, truth be told, I might not be able to look beyond the crying with laughter thing, but otherwise the statement stands
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  • Echoes

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    Sagan is an attention-seeker. It's not Echoes speaking, it's Frederik Willems, former teammate at Liquigas who had remained friend (his attitude does not seem to bother him, must be a matter of upbringing). I shared that article on the BMC thread. "Van Avermaet would never seek attention, Sagan however." It was just in his first year, really? This is really the moment I realised that the guy had a problem. I hope nobody tells me it's funny because it's just lame and does not bring a nice image to the sport at all. And yes, even if Bouhanni is a creep, I usually like riders who can at times be hot-headed like say Oliver Naesen then attention seekers like the Slovakian guy. There had always been big mouths and quieter guys in the peloton, it's the way it is. But attention-seekers like that, I've seen very few of them in 28 years of watching cycling. It must be my upbringing. My father has always disliked him since he first saw him (before me!). "Look at me, I'm the strongest, I'm the most handsome". That's how he'd describe him despite saying once to me that he was "really strong".



    Well there's the difference I guess. I don't give a crap what a rider acts like when not on his bike, I want to see him race. [...]

    I can conceive that. Though I find it very sad.
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  • hiero

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    IMHO, Sagan showed us brilliant racing in Gent-Wevelgem. Without Petr, with just GvA and Terpstra as big names? It would have been a good finish - exciting. With Sagan in the mix, it was about 90% more exciting. His attempt to bridge - when he broke on the right hand side of the road, using the road furniture to make the break a solid one? Brilliant.

    You know what? I'm happy - we are seeing real racing, I think. And really exciting competitions! Lovin' it.
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  • hiero

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    Anybody else notice - Sagan cut his hair. Chopped the long locks. Good thing, IMO, as that long long hair was getting kinda bedraggled looking.
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  • latino

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    Sagan fan here (obviously), just wanted to leave a video with a few of his wins.

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  • Leadbelly

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    I'd have had a couple of his Suisse wins from 2011 and 2013 in there. The latter in particular must be quite embarrassing for those that finished behind him. Was it a headwind on the climb? I can't remember.
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  • hiero

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    I used to think Cav was going to take this record, but that hope has long since faded.
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-lays-foundations-for-record-equalling-tour-de-france-green-jersey
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  • hiero

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    re: Tour de Suisse, stage 5. I wonder if he stays up nights dreaming up new victory salutes . . .

    Another GRAND victory. Massive.
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  • Echoes

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    For Sagan fans a bunch sprint is a grand victory. The world is crazy. I mean when is the groupie attitude going to stop?  :S

    Besides, you know that there's something wrong when cycling fans are discussing lame victory salutes ... This sport is sinking even lower. When are we reaching the bottom?
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  • hiero

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    For Sagan fans a bunch sprint is a grand victory. The world is crazy. I mean when is the groupie attitude going to stop?  :S

    Besides, you know that there's something wrong when cycling fans are discussing lame victory salutes ... This sport is sinking even lower. When are we reaching the bottom?
    Echoes! Why all the vitriol? (Edit: actually, echoes, you have explained your attitude previously in this thread. I had forgotten. My advice, dude, is to chill and enjoy the show, or ignore it. Sagan isn't doing this out of an "I am better than you" attitude, he is doing it from "I'm great, and I'm going to have fun" attitude. And, yeah, he seeks attention. So what? )

    That sprint wasn't really a typical bunch sprint, don't you think?
    Here, a blow-by-blow:
    QS and Sunweb at the front at the 1k banner, no Bora train in sight, but Sagan there and UAE (w/ Modolo)
    Gilbert pulls @ 500m
    Sunweb (Nikias Arndt) attacks @ ~400m
    Sagan launches to follow Arndt and at 300m is within a bike length behind Arndt
    Sagan catches Arndt, and after a half breath behind Arndt's draft, launches AGAIN before the 200m signs and is past Arndt and away by 195m.

    Taking off at 400m? The bunch sprint happened behind Arndt and Sagan. Sagan's instinct was to follow the early wheel, and any other day, it was too early. It surely WAS too early for Arndt, who got swallowed up in the bunch sprint. But not for Sagan, who went from considerably farther out than we normally see when it is a "bunch sprint".

    I'm essentially going to ignore the "groupie attitude". That is demeaning and insulting, and you are better than that.

    As for lame victory salutes, do you recall Cippolini? The tiger-suit? The zebra-stripe-suit? The skin-skinsuit? And others? Sometimes you sit back and just enjoy the show. Mario was outrageous back then. Sagan is outrageous now. So? Sagan, you have to admit, has a clever sense of showmanship, as Mario did.

    Sagan has proven himself to be one of the top ten cyclists riding today - time and again. And through all the controversy and attention, he manages to maintain a civil attitude, and to keep his humor and joie-de-vivre. And so far, he hasn't pulled any Tinkoffs (with the possible exception of the ass-pinch, for which he appropriately apologized).

    When Gilbert was pulling off unlikely attacks and wins this spring, it was massive. And this victory was a similarly awesome display of power and INSTINCT. How many other riders realized the opportunity or danger of Arndt's attack? Nobody. Or they didn't have the chops to follow it and pass. So, yeah, massive is a good word here.

    As for attention seeking - ok. So is Bob Roll. So is Magnus Backstedt. So is Phil Gaiman. So are all the bloggers we regularly listen to. So?

    Ok, so Sagan rubs you the wrong way. Got it. Let's move on.


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  • « Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 23:18 by hiero »

    hiero

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    Ok - we want to inject a little levity? Something down to earth to counter the hubris? Ok, how about this clip of Sagan zigzagging across the road to make it up the mountain finish?  :D :lol
    https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/743848587642052608
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  • hiero

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    BTW, echoes and anyone else out there who DOESN'T like Sagan? Its ok. I certainly don't mind. You can unlike him all you want. That is just you being human.

    Example: I can't stand Froome. It's not logical, it just is. We humans are like that. We don't always have to be logical and have good reasons - some things are just beyond that. I might think you are a total mushroom because you feel that way, but hey, no worries, eh? I'll keep it to myself, if you keep it to yourself that you think I've been dipped in dog sh*t!  :wave
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  • hiero

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    The Sagan Show. Heh. The media even capitalize it now! Gave me a good couple of chuckles today, what with "What is pressure?", and this:

    Quote
    When queried about what matching Erik Zabel’s would mean, Sagan shrugged his shoulders yet again.

    “What changes in the world if I win the green jersey? Nothing,” he said. “There are more important things in the life.”

    That’s the Sagan Way.
    http://www.velonews.com/2017/07/news/le-tour-sagan-show-begins_442642#QixdCFwoVfUhYz5q.99
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