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Tuart

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Re: Green Edge
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2012, 06:47 »
Two things that have annoyed me- the apparent ungracious attitude towards endura/tiernan Locke (from twitter comments I saw) and the seriously over the top guy who does greenedgefans twitter

But I thought gerrans was fairly humble after winning tdu, and I'd like to see goss do well. Can't stand Meyer/bobridge/durbridge though

Actually, I find this funny. When I go on twitter and I see someone with "fan" in their name, I don't expect them to objective towards whatever it is their a fan of. I certainly wouldn't be following anyone who's views and tweets annoy me. Like Anthony Tan. Twitter is surprisingly peaceful that way.
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  • 2014 Velorooms Giro d'Italia Velogames Winner

    Waterloo Sunset

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #31 on: February 14, 2012, 21:42 »
    Can't be what you outta be; Gotta be what you wanna be.

    Take it with pride and like a DragonFly; DragonFly wants a piece of pie.
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  • Martin318is

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #32 on: February 14, 2012, 22:39 »
    This is the thing, most Brits in my experience dont have a rats bums if we beat australia in something. .

    But looking at the bigger picture - thats because you have France.  The UK has several "old enemies" that they get fired up about before even thinking about Aus whereas Australia has.... NZ.
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  • About Masters Club racing:
    ".. if I can't double the petrol money, I'm headin over the mountains instead" - Michael Fox, Team SAS

    Dim

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #33 on: February 14, 2012, 22:40 »
    I find the team a little uninspiring at present.  The kit is pretty awful, especially Tuft's national champ jersey and let's not even get started on the team song, sorry anthem.

    very tempted to use it for this seasons sky wins roundup video :D
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  • Dim

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #34 on: February 14, 2012, 22:41 »
    But looking at the bigger picture - thats because you have France.  The UK has several "old enemies" that they get fired up about before even thinking about Aus whereas Australia has.... NZ.

    well as a Scotland fan the only thing I care about is beating England. :D
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  • Martin318is

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #35 on: February 14, 2012, 22:50 »
    well as a Scotland fan the only thing I care about is beating England. :D

    Exactly, however that is until... If Scotland is not in the comp or its a Britain team, who is the next team that you only care about beating?
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  • Spider1964

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #36 on: February 15, 2012, 02:05 »
    I had high hopes for Mitch this year in the classics, hopefully he comes good -

    (Apologies for not inserting a link to this article... their shyte website made it impossible?)

    In His Own Words: Mitch Docker Update
    Hey Everyone,

    The team told me that there have been a lot people asking about my condition. Now that things have settled down for me, I thought I would update all of you.

    I still can’t remember what happened when I crashed, so I only know what I’ve been told by the guys that we’re with me that day. Apparently, we were on a descent, and we were rightly on our side of the road. There was a car coming in our direction that was also rightly on its side of the road. We must have been a bit too close for my comfort, so I altered my line slightly in the corner. In doing that, I hit a rough patch and lost it – going over the handlebars. Given my injuries, it’s fairly clear that I landed straight on my wrist and then on my face.

    I was airlifted from the crash site to a hospital where I was told that I had a fractured wrist and cheekbone. I also had brain trauma – a pretty serious concussion in my head.

    A few days later, the pain in my wrist was still troubling, so I went for another check. That’s when I found out that it was broken. I had surgery to have a screw placed in there. The idea is that the screw will heal the wrist more quickly and cleanly.

    The cheekbone is mostly okay. I’m told it will heal on its own. The head injury is a bit more serious. I have to take it really easy for six weeks. This means training is out. It also means other changes to my daily life. I’ve been told to avoid television and computer time as much as possible. It’s important that I’m in a stress-free environment. I need to pay special attention to sleep. There’s no direct treatment required. I just need to let the body recovery on it’s own – and I can’t push it. I’ll do damage if I try to come back into things too quickly.

    I noticed improvements during the first two weeks after my accident. At first I was really tired and forgetful. People were telling me that I wasn’t always making sense. By the second week, I definitely noticed improvements in memory, clarity and energy levels. Since having the operation on my wrist, I feel like I have taken a few steps backward again. I have only been out of the hospital about a week now. I know it will take time.

    The head injury is a funny thing. It’s not like a wound. I can’t gauge how well I’m healing by looking at it every day. I have to listen to the people around me and use their feedback to know if I’m improving.

    Given all this, it may be obvious that the Classics are definitely out for me this year. I had lofty goals for this part of my season, and it took me a little while to get over the idea of missing these races. I had been really looking forward to doing them with GreenEDGE. Enough time has passed now, and I’ve accepted this. The Classics will not be part of my race program, and that’s fine.

    My mind is now focused on my comeback. I’ve spoken to Sports Director Matt White briefly. If all goes well, my understanding is that I will return to racing in mid-May. We have tentatively penciled in the Tour of Norway as my return to racing. Of course, this is all dependant on my progress – on all the updates along the way. This is the ideal plan. If all goes well, I’ll be back to racing in three months.

    I’m definitely hoping that an early season crash will lend itself to a stronger second half of the season. I’ve looked back at other guys who have crashed early on in the year and looked at how their seasons have gone. It’s motivated me to see how they have come back. I’m looking forward to starting the Vuelta really fresh. It will be a different approach for me – and a different approach than most riders will have. It seems as if it could be advantageous.

    I have been speaking with our trainer, Marc Quod, on where and how I will return to training. This keeps me motivated, too. We have a plan, and I like the sound of it. I’m also enjoying spending time off the bike with my family, my friends, my girlfriend and her family. That’s one benefit to having crashed in Australia. I have a strong support system surrounding me. I’m not overseas in Europe having to work it all out on my own.

    I appreciate all the messages of support and questions from fans who want to know how I’m doing. All in all, I’m doing alright. I’m
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  • “The wise speak only of what they know.”

    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend”

    Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #37 on: February 16, 2012, 07:02 »
    Greenedge are a pathetic joke of a World Tour team with their climberless squad. They should not be WT, they should be Pro Continental. There should be requirements for having a balanced team (Sprinter, TTers, Climbers, Hilly Classics riders, Cobbled Classics Riders) and there should be less WT teams. As an Australian I am very disappointed that the first Australian WT team has got their squad so wrong. I tried to give them a chance but no more, while I like some of the riders, especially the Australian's and hope Teklehaimanot does well, I will not be supporting them as a team.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #38 on: February 16, 2012, 07:37 »
    Right them

    EE get booted

    Saxo gone now as well

    Movistar it could be argued if yo must have ITT riders - not really but I could go on.  Without Evans 2011 BMC wold still be pro conti etc etc

    Greededge don´t have climbers - so many teams have weakness, while they should not be WT day 1 imo , they are and will probably fit 10 - 15 in the rankings at the end of the year - there teams will get constant points expect the 15 % of high mountain stages.


     
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #39 on: February 16, 2012, 08:13 »
    IF there is only 10 or 12 teams in the WT then EE would almost certainly not make, nor would Saxo Bank especially without Contador. They still could race GTs etc because there would be a lot more invitations given to races, 10 or 12, instead of just the few now.Not sure about Movistar they seem to have most areas fairly well covered, BMC lacked depth last year everybody knows that, different this year. GO BMC!!!!!
    However getting off topic already and it is my first day, so I will leave it at that, need to behave myself
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #40 on: February 16, 2012, 08:59 »
    I agree with what JSG said.

    That's just what cycling needs, 6-8 teams out of the WT, into the PC ranks and face more sponsor instability because teams can't guarantee races because they've tried to focus on their strengths.

    So LS is what you are saying:
    a) it's not GreenEdge you hate but the WorldTour system
    or b) Just hate GreenEdge
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  • Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #41 on: February 16, 2012, 11:10 »


    I never said I hated anything, Do not put words in my mouth.
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  • « Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 12:26 by just some guy »

    Dim

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #42 on: February 16, 2012, 13:19 »
    They should not be WT, they should be Pro Continental.

    Fully agree, I always think back to Cervelo test team as a great example. That said, when Sky were given the same privalege (albeit with a vastly superior team) its hard for me to comment.

    I can see why the UCI did it. As a pro continental team they may not have got many race invites, and then you get the issue for them of where do they base themselves, costs of basing in europe but maybe getting invites to a lot of asian races etc. Ultimately its all political, just as china getting two world tour races is.

    Fortunately for |Greenedge they racked up a load of WT points in Australia, and will rack up some more in the two late season races that nobody cares about, so will be fine for top 15 and a wt spot for next year.
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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #43 on: February 16, 2012, 13:21 »
    Fully agree, I always think back to Cervelo test team as a great example. That said, when Sky were given the same privalege (albeit with a vastly superior team) its hard for me to comment.

    I can see why the UCI did it. As a pro continental team they may not have got many race invites, and then you get the issue for them of where do they base themselves, costs of basing in europe but maybe getting invites to a lot of asian races etc. Ultimately its all political, just as china getting two world tour races is.

    Fortunately for |Greenedge they racked up a load of WT points in Australia, and will rack up some more in the two late season races that nobody cares about, so will be fine for top 15 and a wt spot for next year.

    Maybe a Classics win or Podium  and a stage in each of the GT´s as well they will do ok
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #44 on: February 17, 2012, 02:36 »

    I never said I hated anything, Do not put words in my mouth.

    Then make it clearer what you do mean, or if people call you out on a weak argument, back it up.
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  • Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #45 on: February 17, 2012, 05:41 »
    Then make it clearer what you do mean, or if people call you out on a weak argument, back it up.

    Are you serious? Where did I use the word hate in the post you replied to?
    I did not.
    If you disagree with me then argue against what I said. Don't make up things.
    I am not going to have people make up things against me.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #46 on: February 17, 2012, 06:30 »
    Don't be so aggressive. I'm not making it up anyway. You called them a "pathetic joke" of a team. If you didn't have any harsh feelings towards the team, you wouldn't have used that terminology. Read your own posts.
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  • bicing

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #47 on: February 17, 2012, 10:07 »
    [snip]... the first Australian WT team has got their squad so wrong... [snip]
    I have to pull you up on this one. Sprinting and classics represents the most common ambitions of the Australians in the peloton.

    Do a CQ subranking for Australians for 2011 and look at the list of riders. Here's the top 20. I have also bolded the riders who have
    sprinting and classics ambitions.

            1.      [AUS]        EVANS Cadel      BMC      14/02/1977      1936   
       2.      [AUS]        GOSS Matthew      THR      05/11/1986      1189   
       3.      [AUS]        GERRANS Simon      SKY      16/05/1980      727   
       4.      [AUS]        MATTHEWS Michael      RAB      26/09/1990      602   
       5.      [AUS]        MCEWEN Robbie      RSH      24/06/1972      537   
       6.      [AUS]        HAUSSLER Heinrich      GRM      25/02/1984      496   

       7.      [AUS]        MEYER Cameron      GRM      11/01/1988      456   
       8.      [AUS]        HAYMAN Mathew      SKY      20/04/1978      397   
       9.      [AUS]        BOBRIDGE Jack      GRM      13/07/1989      395   
       10.      [AUS]        SUTTON Christopher      SKY      10/09/1984      348   
       11.      [AUS]        CLARKE Simon      AST      18/07/1986      323   
       12.      [AUS]        HAAS Nathan      GEN      12/03/1989      295   
       13.      [AUS]        RENSHAW Mark      THR      22/10/1982      286   
       14.      [AUS]        COOKE Baden      SBS      12/10/1978      279   
       15.      [AUS]        O'GRADY Stuart      LEO      06/08/1973      264   
       16.      [AUS]        PORTE Richie      SBS      30/01/1985      261   
       17.      [AUS]        HOWARD Leigh      THR      18/10/1989      211   
       18.      [AUS]        ROBERTS Luke      SBS      25/01/1977      197   
       19.      [AUS]        SUTHERLAND Rory      UHC      08/02/1982      182   
       20.      [AUS]        SULZBERGER Wesley      FDJ      20/10/1986      174

    A lot of bold. It would be strange to have the opposite, a GC or stage race heavy squad with hack Aussie leaders and top10 at best ambitions. The current manifestation of the team is representative of the Australian peloton.

    I agree with you that they should be more balanced. But I don't think teams in their first year of operation can really be picky. I imagine, that next year will be much more balanced, and in the next few years there will be a riders that could lead and protect a GC or stage race threat.
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  • Cycman: Sagan Greipel Brajkovic Breschel CA.Sorensen Porte Wegmann Sutton Zubeldia Fedrigo Lastras Roux Selig Morabito Dumoulin T.Meyer
    CQ game-breakers: Boom Ciolek DeGendt Steegmans Bertagnolli Blythe Masciarelli Stetina Boeckmans Vaugrenard

    Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #48 on: February 17, 2012, 14:35 »
    Don't be so aggressive. I'm not making it up anyway. You called them a "pathetic joke" of a team. If you didn't have any harsh feelings towards the team, you wouldn't have used that terminology. Read your own posts.

    You are the one that used the word HATE, I did not and I am the one being aggressive. To me pathetic joke is very different to hate so don't try and get out of it that way. If you don't like me say they are a pathetic joke then say that don't say that I hate them. Have a go at me for what I said not something I did not say. Hopefully that is clear enough for you.
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  • Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #49 on: February 17, 2012, 14:40 »
    I have to pull you up on this one. Sprinting and classics represents the most common ambitions of the Australians in the peloton.

    Do a CQ subranking for Australians for 2011 and look at the list of riders. Here's the top 20. I have also bolded the riders who have
    sprinting and classics ambitions.

            1.      [AUS]        EVANS Cadel      BMC      14/02/1977      1936   
       2.      [AUS]        GOSS Matthew      THR      05/11/1986      1189   
       3.      [AUS]        GERRANS Simon      SKY      16/05/1980      727   
       4.      [AUS]        MATTHEWS Michael      RAB      26/09/1990      602   
       5.      [AUS]        MCEWEN Robbie      RSH      24/06/1972      537   
       6.      [AUS]        HAUSSLER Heinrich      GRM      25/02/1984      496   

       7.      [AUS]        MEYER Cameron      GRM      11/01/1988      456   
       8.      [AUS]        HAYMAN Mathew      SKY      20/04/1978      397   
       9.      [AUS]        BOBRIDGE Jack      GRM      13/07/1989      395   
       10.      [AUS]        SUTTON Christopher      SKY      10/09/1984      348   
       11.      [AUS]        CLARKE Simon      AST      18/07/1986      323   
       12.      [AUS]        HAAS Nathan      GEN      12/03/1989      295   
       13.      [AUS]        RENSHAW Mark      THR      22/10/1982      286   
       14.      [AUS]        COOKE Baden      SBS      12/10/1978      279   
       15.      [AUS]        O'GRADY Stuart      LEO      06/08/1973      264   
       16.      [AUS]        PORTE Richie      SBS      30/01/1985      261   
       17.      [AUS]        HOWARD Leigh      THR      18/10/1989      211   
       18.      [AUS]        ROBERTS Luke      SBS      25/01/1977      197   
       19.      [AUS]        SUTHERLAND Rory      UHC      08/02/1982      182   
       20.      [AUS]        SULZBERGER Wesley      FDJ      20/10/1986      174

    A lot of bold. It would be strange to have the opposite, a GC or stage race heavy squad with hack Aussie leaders and top10 at best ambitions. The current manifestation of the team is representative of the Australian peloton.

    I agree with you that they should be more balanced. But I don't think teams in their first year of operation can really be picky. I imagine, that next year will be much more balanced, and in the next few years there will be a riders that could lead and protect a GC or stage race threat.

    They could have signed foreign climbers and in my opinion by not doing so they totally failed. They instead signed riders like Mouris and Tuft. They should have signed climbers instead of them. And they didn't even sign Matthew Lloyd. Total joke of a WT team.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #50 on: February 17, 2012, 14:50 »
    I asked you to clarify a position and you respond with asinine semantics. If you want to deflect and not answer the question just say so.
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  • Luke Schmid

    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 15:04 »
    I asked you to clarify a position and you respond with asinine semantics. If you want to deflect and not answer the question just say so.

    Liar, that is not what you did and you know it. I never said I hated anything and you replied with a when did you stop beating your wife question. You gave me two options, both which required me to be HATING something. That is just not the right way to treat people, your posts since have just been trying to blame me for your wrong doing. I have done nothing wrong so just leave me alone.
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  • bicing

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #52 on: February 17, 2012, 15:09 »
    They could have signed foreign climbers and in my opinion by not doing so they totally failed. They instead signed riders like Mouris and Tuft. They should have signed climbers instead of them. And they didn't even sign Matthew Lloyd. Total joke of a WT team.
    I'm saying they may not have had the opportunity to do so... it's the first year the team is in operation, with a new owner to the road cycling game, no sponsor and a new country that's at the back end of the world.

    Though they did miss an opportunity to sign M Loyd.

    Your criticism is valid but I think you should be more aggressive if this trend continues into the 2nd and 3rd years. BMC were useless too in the beginnig.

    Liar, that is not what you did and you know it. I never said I hated anything and you replied with a when did you stop beating your wife question. You gave me two options, both which required me to be HATING something. That is just not the right way to treat people, your posts since have just been trying to blame me for your wrong doing. I have done nothing wrong so just leave me alone.

    The semantic here is that Luke you are clinging to the "hate" word, whereas Tuarts didn't mean it literally he just meant it as a quick and easy way to sum up your emotional posts against either (a) Green Edge or (b) the ProTour system. Obviously Luke you react strongly to the word "hate". Others throw it around lightly. Tuarts threw it lightly, don't interpret it as something strong.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #53 on: February 17, 2012, 15:16 »
    Whatever, I'm stopping, not going to continue bickering with a 12 year old. Dim, great time to introduce an ignore feature!
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #54 on: February 17, 2012, 15:39 »
    Sorry folks was going to type this but my 16 month old wanted play .

    Maybe we should get back to discussing the team or step away as tuarts will do

    JSG
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  • Dim

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #55 on: February 18, 2012, 01:01 »
    Whatever, I'm stopping, not going to continue bickering with a 12 year old. Dim, great time to introduce an ignore feature!

    go to your profile, modify profile>buddies/ignore list, and then edit ignore list. Its always been there
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  • AG

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #56 on: February 18, 2012, 01:08 »
    BMC weren't PT for the first 4 years of their existence though. Now I'm not saying Greenedge won't score any wins and they could well develop into the best cycling team ever! But it also depends on them getting a named sponsor before the end of next season. In my view, a new team shouldn't be granted PT status in it's first year, regardless of who they have on their roster.

    What about Leopard Trek last year?       or RadioShack Nissan this year is basically a new team as its a merger of 2 past teams. 

    Lotto Belisol this year is also a new team (Omega Pharma took their licence and merged with Quickstep who also had a licence)


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  • AG

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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #57 on: February 18, 2012, 03:45 »
    But I will add that when it suits me I can be the biggest hypocrite period! ;D

    yeah me too    ;D

    I do actually agree with you that most teams should start out as pro conti and have time to grow and mature over a bit of time.

    BUT - I do think Greenedge being pro-tour first up is a good thing for Australian cycling and will grow cycling in Australia exponentially - especially this year on the back of Evan's winning Le Tour and (IMO) likely to go back to back .... so I am ok with Greenedge  :)
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  • DinZ

    • 2.2 is where it is at
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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #58 on: February 18, 2012, 06:13 »
    yeah me too    ;D

    I do actually agree with you that most teams should start out as pro conti and have time to grow and mature over a bit of time.

    BUT - I do think Greenedge being pro-tour first up is a good thing for Australian cycling and will grow cycling in Australia exponentially - especially this year on the back of Evan's winning Le Tour and (IMO) likely to go back to back .... so I am ok with Greenedge  :)

    The interesting thing is people say they are not strong enough, and yet ironically if they had not been pro tour they would in all likelihood have been weaker.

    My issues with GreenEdge is not their squad, i think they have taken a sensible approach, tried to make the most of the Aussie talent they had available. Yes they missed Matt Lloyd but would a new team really want to take on the risk of a rider that obviously had some underlying issues.

    the only slight issue i had with them being World Tour related to sponsorship and stability, I am nervous they will arrive to great fanfare and disappear almost as quickly and that in the end that could do more damage than good.

    All my other issues with GreenEdge are solely related to being a Pom living in Australia and the strong sibling rivalry that comes with that.

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  • Tuart

    • Pobblebonk
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    Re: Green Edge
    « Reply #59 on: February 18, 2012, 09:10 »
    go to your profile, modify profile>buddies/ignore list, and then edit ignore list. Its always been there

    Thanks, hadn't been in the buddy list section before.

    @Dave I think they have 3 years to find a sponsor I'm not really worried about them getting one now. If they can't find a sponsor by then, yeah a bit of a fail but not so at the moment, when GR is happy to foot the bill for 72 months.
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