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Dim

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Doping in Asia
« on: June 07, 2013, 23:25 »


Tabriz Petrochemical team. Even people who know nothing about Asian cycling raise their eyebrows when TPC are mentioned.. and these two? it was their third 1-2 of the year..

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  • ram

    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 02:53 »
    One's an Asian ATG and the other possibly the best Asian youngster. Doesn't mean anything either way, but the man in third wasn't supposed to be racing till a couple of days before the race.

    Post Merge: June 08, 2013, 03:23
    And for those who don't know who Mizbani is
    http://cyclingiq.com/2013/05/11/neutral-zone-ghader-mizbani/
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  • « Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 03:23 by ram, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

    DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 04:00 »
    yeah have to say that while there is a lot of suspicion about TPT you need to take the stage and race into account

    it is a weaker field than last year. As Ram says the guy in third only got a contract to race the week before and cannot be in that great form.
    also the stage was basically a massive mountain up and down. so not like they held of the peloton on a flat stage for 8 minutes
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 08:54 »


    Tabriz Petrochemical team. Even people who know nothing about Asian cycling raise their eyebrows when TPC are mentioned.. and these two? it was their third 1-2 of the year..

    I think I've just found two new signings for Euskaltel next year :win
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  • Dim

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #4 on: June 09, 2013, 19:14 »
    I think I've just found two new signings for Euskaltel next year :win

    well with the way the world tour is, teams will sign those two for ranking points, they will be absolutely shocking for a year, and then return to asia and destroy everyone..
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  • ram

    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #5 on: June 09, 2013, 20:22 »
    I think I've just found two new signings for Euskaltel next year :win

    well with the way the world tour is, teams will sign those two for ranking points, they will be absolutely shocking for a year, and then return to asia and destroy everyone..
    Got nothing on Choi Ki Ho or Arredondo rankings wise. 2.2 wins versus 2.1 results.

    And that context shan't really be forgotten. WT and the three races Mizbani has won this year are completely incomparable. Pujol showed that last year when he gave everyone a lesson at Singkarak in that come from behind win and did appreciably the Tour of Azerbaidjan. Not everyone is as "talented" as Froome where he can be pack fodder in the Asia tour 2.2s and become the killer in the Tour de France.

    In Filipinas, the pair pulled back Thomas Rabou, the shock. Rabou went at the base of the climb (a proper mountain stage) while these two with a few kms remaining, and had Rabou been a bit more conservative, he might've been close to a win.

    In the Tour of Iran, he and Kolahdozhagh beat Milan Kadlec. Kadlec is barely a climber.

    Here, he beat Johan Coenen, an unfit Pujol, and Blair Windsor.

    Mizbani is possibly the greatest Asia tour rider alongside Wong Kam Po.  8 minutes, given the way the stage panned out was not unrealistic. What did we expect, Ryan Sherlock to climb like an eagle? Or Zamri Salleh? Pujol flopped as soon as they hit the climb. Just no good in form riders there who're used to riding in 35C heat. It was rather wet last year, iirc.

    The most questionable in that race wasn't Mizbani imo but Coenen and Differendage Losch. A sh*te team completely boss a stage, then bonk hard (although circumstances not inexplicable), followed by another bonk.

    If we were to start questioning performances, there are quite a few, even by clean teams that are worthy of questioning.
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  • Dim

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 20:41 »
    I do wonder who next years never heard of points winners will be snapped up by WT teams..
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  • Dim

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 23:26 »
    Interesting series from Matt Brammeirer




    Brammeier is currently 30 minutes back in the Tour of Qinghai Lake



    He lost ten minutes today :D

    Contestants by Nation - Iran and Kazakhstan with 18 riders in the race, occupy the top 9 places on GC, and 16 are those 18 riders are in the top 33 riders in the race.. Two nations kicking but.

    1.    ITALY   22
    2.    AUSTRALIA   14
    3.    CHINA   13
    4.    IRAN   11
    5.    GERMANY   11
    6.    FRANCE   10
    7.    SLOVENIA   10
    8.    SPAIN   8
    9.    KAZAKHSTAN   7
    10.    UKRAINE   7
    11.    UNITED STATES   5
    12.    GREAT BRITAIN   4
    13.    TAIPEI   3
    14.    TURKEY   3
    15.    LATVIA   2
    16.    ESTONIA   2
    17.    NETHERLANDS   2
    18.    AZERBAIJAN   2
    19.    IRELAND   1
    20.    DENMARK   1
    21.    POLAND   1
    22.    ARGENTINA   1
    23.    NEW ZEALAND   1
    24.    MALAYSIA   1
    25.    KYRGYZSTAN   1
    26.    ROMANIA   1
    27.    RUSSIA   1
    28.    UZBEKISTAN   1
    29.    SWITZERLAND   1
    30.    SOUTH KOREA   1
    31.    MEXICO   1
    32.    ISRAEL   1
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  • Dim

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 23:35 »
    Im going to bed now before Ram finds this :D
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #9 on: July 14, 2013, 01:17 »
    OK i know this is going to keep coming back, given the vocal complaints of domination by none Asian riders and the fact that these Iranian riders do not perform when they move outside of the asian tour. especially when the race leader is in his first race back from a doping ban...

    however the one thing i would urge people to remember is this race is being raced at very high altitude and that is always going to favour riders that are more used to it. Generally the Iranians always do well in such races (although that could be because they have enhanced ability to carry oxygen around their body). it has also been tough conditions with Euro riders wanting to stop the race, while some of the other riders just got on with it

    i guess my point is you cannot keep just looking at numeric results and draw exact conclusions from that

    yes, given the lack of testing, it is very likely there is more doping in the asian cycling scene. yes the Iranians seem to be the most likely to be doing it. but what i hate in cycling in at the moment in Asian and general is people jumping to conclusions based on innuendo from riders and random results.

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  • Dim

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #10 on: July 14, 2013, 01:34 »
    I will readily admit my knowledge of the asian scene is minimal, which is why comments from yourself and Ram are so important (and informative).

    I like many can only go on what some riders say, look at the standings and draw obvious conclusions.
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  • ram

    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #11 on: July 14, 2013, 04:29 »
    Bread and water in the Tibetan plateau? Hope he has diarrhoea pills. I do find it funny that a rider once on a dodgy pro tour team becomes haughty when in Asia. Maybe a word on Quickstep? Fully clean, no?

    Last year, Guardini was swamped by Mezgec in the sprints due to his lack of adjustment to the altitude.

    That said, would rather Pourseyede did not race, but looking forward to Kolahdozhagh. As for who's doping, who really knows? I'm not putting any money on anyone doping, neither am I putting any money on anyone being clean. Till then, Mizbani and Kolahdozhagh winning, no worries.

    Post Merge: July 14, 2013, 06:29
    Oh yes, Brammeier was never in with a shot of challenging for this race. His role I thought was to support the sprinter in the team... Even discounting the altitudes, tis proper mountainous.
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  • « Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 06:29 by ram, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

    Jono L.

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 04:54 »
    The problem is this.

    There is not enough testing.

    And we only ever see guys from a couple of teams doing these superman team trial efforts. and it's not just at altitude.

    When you race against guys like McCann when he was in top swing, he was one of those guys that was almost too strong for his own good, a bit of a cancellara at 2012 San Remo where you think you can just ride everyone into the ground no worries. And he almost could. Yet he never even got close to pulling out some of the performacnes that you see these guys pull off.

    The bottom line is this, the old saying of if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck blah blah it probably is a duck. Well that's the problem.

    The performances in question are dodgy as all hell.

    And if it was me pulling them off, I would want more tests so I could say F**K you to all the haters.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 08:47 »
    Presumably Brammeier is looking for a way back into the WT, so he can't afford to be turning in "crap" results. Is that why he's shouting about it?
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    DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 08:50 »
    Presumably Brammeier is looking for a way back into the WT, so he can't afford to be turning in "crap" results. Is that why he's shouting about it?

    nah probably just his first time racing against the ever surprising TPT squad.

    a lot of riders feel the need to comment when they first meet them
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  • ram

    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 09:33 »
    The problem is this.

    There is not enough testing.

    And we only ever see guys from a couple of teams doing these superman team trial efforts. and it's not just at altitude.

    When you race against guys like McCann when he was in top swing, he was one of those guys that was almost too strong for his own good, a bit of a cancellara at 2012 San Remo where you think you can just ride everyone into the ground no worries. And he almost could. Yet he never even got close to pulling out some of the performacnes that you see these guys pull off.

    The bottom line is this, the old saying of if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck blah blah it probably is a duck. Well that's the problem.

    The performances in question are dodgy as all hell.

    And if it was me pulling them off, I would want more tests so I could say F**K you to all the haters.
    Don't want to be a pr*ck here. I'll never deny that they could be doping, but neither can I allege that it's a fact. I just am one of those looking rather than being in, and yeah tis clear that tests are low.

    But if we start just questioning performances, then even the clean teams (at least those that I believe so) stand out. Bit of a slippery slope when there's evidently very little to go on. But how can tests increase for some clearly 'poor' races around.

    That said, when Brammeier (and Kittel earlier this year) spews off, he comes off as a tool considering he's been a Lefevre employee (and Kittel sees sensational performances elsewhere and riders dancing up mountains after two month breaks in unreachable areas).

    Post Merge: July 15, 2013, 14:37
    The anti dopers just read that and decided to pop Sayar.
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  • « Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 14:37 by ram, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

    killswitch

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 14:52 »
    That said, when Brammeier (and Kittel earlier this year) spews off, he comes off as a tool considering he's been a Lefevre employee (and Kittel sees sensational performances elsewhere and riders dancing up mountains after two month breaks in unreachable areas).

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    ram

    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 15:02 »
    FWIW, which is flip all, Froome and Quintana were who I was alluding to.
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #18 on: July 15, 2013, 23:58 »
    Part of the problem as well is, you can increase testing at races but TPT are very specific in what they target and do not venture out that often. So obviously the real issue is out of comp testing back home.
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  • Jono L.

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #19 on: July 19, 2013, 07:08 »
    Cycling iQ tweeting off about the issue right now.
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #20 on: July 19, 2013, 07:15 »
    yeah saw shane stokes asked him a few days ago and he said he would some digging into the level of testing that was going on in TDQL
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  • DinZ

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #21 on: July 19, 2013, 07:28 »
    Matt Brammier not really holding back in his comments from last few days saying pace is crazy.

    strange thing is from an Asian cycling perspective this is probably the least Asian looking race of the year. A lot of different teams coming in, many based in Europe, so do not think the blame can be put totally on the Asian riders.

    People talking about TPT but I have never seen Astana Conti this good.

    part of problem is TPT will take winners money (is cash apparently) and then head back to Iran and there is a good chance we will not hear from them again this year.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 13:17 »


    They put five minutes into 7 guys working full gas in 30 kilometres along a flat valley floor.

    7 STRONG guys too.

    Bullsh*t.

    good stuff

    I hope Poorseyedi hasn't gone too deep and will still be able to win the world championships

    Is the Tour of Borneo an elite race?

    If not, Isn't Cookson responsible for it as Race Commissioner at the UCI?

    He ought to be. Although he'll probably say that this commission is responsible for anti-doping matters.



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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    just some guy

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 13:34 »
    #genesys are even using their twitter account to say how bad it was , not often teams do that

    https://twitter.com/HuonGenesys
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 13:36 »
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #25 on: August 21, 2013, 13:45 »
    This recent development is quite disturbing to see. :S

    Hang on, that's my diplomatic self talking. Here is how it should sound:
    I'm outraged, it's a bloody mother-flipping disgrace! :yuush

    I wonder if there were tests in Filipinas, Singkarak or Qinghai.
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    Zam

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #26 on: August 21, 2013, 19:44 »
    LOL  how you like them apples?
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  • search

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #28 on: August 22, 2013, 15:28 »
    Anthony Tan on that subject:

    http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/anthony-tan/blog/128259/v-lo-files-a-question-of-trust

    Tan loves a good bandwagon jump doesn´t he

    and I love the subtle - Australian rider don´t dope so we use them as the base theme , Genius
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