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Tuart

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Re: Doping in Asia
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2013, 11:19 »
The difference in quality of journalism in those articles is amazing. One of them makes you want to rip your eyes and smash your head on the wall....the other is an Anthony Tan article. :D




I'm kidding of course. It's the other way round.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #31 on: August 26, 2013, 12:31 »
    nice article Jono ... though I am guessing you wont be getting a job with TPT any time soon  :P

    in truth though - I have always wondered why the riders do not get more upset and angry when this happens.  Its actually a little reassuring that they/you appear to be in this kind of case
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #32 on: August 26, 2013, 12:45 »
    Jono´s thoughts Dark side edition

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lack-of-testing-in-borneo-leaves-more-questions-than-answers

    Typo in the epo results percentages jono. Should be. 1 and. 7
    Good read mind. More bad publicity for pat.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #33 on: August 26, 2013, 13:10 »
    OH FFS, what a ridiculously stupid typo. ugh!

    Anyway..

    nothing to see here... *whistles nervously*

    But yeah, it's that ratio that counts, right?
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #34 on: August 26, 2013, 14:01 »
    I really don't get what the other teams were doing in the situation, they all knew what was going on, now had they all widrawn from the race, they would have send a message to other race organicers, that if they invite shady teams like this, we won't race. funny how in the '98 tour a sit down could be organized against people trying to stop cheating, but now the opposite can't happen?
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #35 on: August 26, 2013, 15:13 »
    OH FFS, what a ridiculously stupid typo. ugh!

    Anyway..

    nothing to see here... *whistles nervously*

    But yeah, it's that ratio that counts, right?

    indeed, the wada report would suggest that the positive ratio in competition is 7 times higher than the out of competition.

    Good job in dropping that in, its a shame really how little attention the mainstream media have paid to the WADA report. Be interesting to drill down if i get time into the figures for asian and australian testing.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #36 on: August 26, 2013, 15:14 »
    I really don't get what the other teams were doing in the situation, they all knew what was going on, now had they all widrawn from the race, they would have send a message to other race organicers, that if they invite shady teams like this, we won't race. funny how in the '98 tour a sit down could be organized against people trying to stop cheating, but now the opposite can't happen?

    exactly, teams get thrown out for doping, hotels get raided. Protest.
    No testing, suspicious performances, nothing to see here. :D
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #37 on: August 26, 2013, 17:11 »
    exactly, teams get thrown out for doping, hotels get raided. Protest.
    No testing, suspicious performances, nothing to see here. :D

    I just don't think they'd get the consensus. But even if Champion Systems, Huon Genesys, Synergy Baku and maybe a couple of the other bigger teams walked, that would be enough for a big story and to effectively shut down the race on the road.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #38 on: August 26, 2013, 17:21 »
    Wouldn't sponsors kick up a fuss that they spent all this money on the teams and then they don't race/get the exposure?
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #39 on: August 26, 2013, 17:40 »
    Wouldn't sponsors kick up a fuss that they spent all this money on the teams and then they don't race/get the exposure?

    they might get more

    if say 6 teams all left a race due to UCI non controls and 1 teams destroying the field the press might just give the title sponsors a huge amount of press
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #40 on: August 27, 2013, 07:56 »
    And what's more, they'll be portrayed everywhere as the champions of clean cycling, actually taking a stand against blatant doping and trying to change the culture.
    Best PR you can think of as a sponsor of cycling.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #41 on: August 28, 2013, 00:32 »
    Just wanted to make one point about 'inviting teams'

    TPT are the top ranked Asian continental team so lower ranked races MUST invite them. UCI rules say that. So cannot blame the tour organisers for inviting them, there is no proof that anything is wrong so they have no choice. So then very harsh on a race like Borneo for teams to pull out based on rumours.

    Once again it is the UCI that need to sort it out and bring testers.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #42 on: August 28, 2013, 06:37 »
    Malaysian federation responds to criticism

    In response to criticism following the lack of anti-doping procedures at the recent Tour of Borneo, the Malaysian National Cycling Federation (MNCF) has insisted that controls will take place in order for future events to go ahead.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/anti-doping-procedures-compulsory-at-future-tours-of-borneo
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #43 on: August 28, 2013, 11:04 »
    Just wanted to make one point about 'inviting teams'

    TPT are the top ranked Asian continental team so lower ranked races MUST invite them. UCI rules say that. So cannot blame the tour organisers for inviting them, there is no proof that anything is wrong so they have no choice. So then very harsh on a race like Borneo for teams to pull out based on rumours.

    Once again it is the UCI that need to sort it out and bring testers.

    True, but I think the message it would send would be worth it, also it could be done on the last stage so to disturb the race the least possible, the riders could even go to the start and simply not sign in, but ride the planned route either way, that way they would send the message, fans would still get to see them, organisers would not lose too much.

    What I really wonder is why does the UCI not insist that when no testers are send that the organisers have to have a doctor on short call that can be brought in to test in case of suspect results? Surely the doctor of the finish town must be able of taking a blood sample or a urin sample. If the UCI can't do that could we at least get a hotel raid?
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #44 on: August 28, 2013, 11:27 »
    Malaysian federation responds to criticism

    In response to criticism following the lack of anti-doping procedures at the recent Tour of Borneo, the Malaysian National Cycling Federation (MNCF) has insisted that controls will take place in order for future events to go ahead.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/anti-doping-procedures-compulsory-at-future-tours-of-borneo

    Meanwhile another season goes by with another race marked by potentially distorted results. I'm not saying these Tabriz guys were on the sauce (even if they did manage to put 7 minutes into an élite chase group), but a year out of a pro rider's career in this rather more precarious theatre of cycling is what these officials are affably dismissing here.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #45 on: August 30, 2013, 03:20 »
    Tan loves a good bandwagon jump doesn´t he

    and I love the subtle - Australian rider don´t dope so we use them as the base theme, Genius
    Yet isn't that exactly the prevailing attitude on velorooms too?

    This recent development is quite disturbing to see. :S

    Hang on, that's my diplomatic self talking. Here is how it should sound:
    I'm outraged, it's a bloody mother-flipping disgrace! :yuush

    I wonder if there were tests in Filipinas, Singkarak or Qinghai.
    How about last year when peachy eyed Kiwis and Japanese were winning? Only came up in Singkarak, when, let's face it, Genesys twitter handler had a whingy strop. Seems to be the unpopular winners that are drawing questions than the real lack of testing, which was apparent (though not quite Borneo apparent) last year.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #46 on: August 30, 2013, 06:33 »
     Look at the *way* in which certain riders win. No other team, ever, puts away entire pelotons with two man TT's, year in, year out. AND be involved with rider's who've gone positive before

    There would be something wrong if people were not suspicious.

    And for gods sake don't turn it into some xenophobic westerner racism thing with me. If you read any of my blogs or knew anything about me, you'd know I'm not you're A-typical meat head jock. I'd much rather live in Asia that in Australia.

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  • « Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 06:46 by Jono L. »

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #47 on: August 30, 2013, 07:56 »
    Look at the *way* in which certain riders win. No other team, ever, puts away entire pelotons with two man TT's, year in, year out. AND be involved with rider's who've gone positive before

    There would be something wrong if people were not suspicious.

    And for gods sake don't turn it into some xenophobic westerner racism thing with me. If you read any of my blogs or knew anything about me, you'd know I'm not you're A-typical meat head jock. I'd much rather live in Asia that in Australia.

    By the way I recon that was Ram 99.9% sure some would say 100%

    Yet isn't that exactly the prevailing attitude on velorooms too?

    Not that I have seen or read , I would say most with any history in cycling would say OZ folks dope just as much as anyone , however much that is

    How about last year when peachy eyed Kiwis and Japanese were winning? Only came up in Singkarak, when, let's face it, Genesys twitter handler had a whingy strop. Seems to be the unpopular winners that are drawing questions than the real lack of testing, which was apparent (though not quite Borneo apparent) last year.

    you and I started discussing this very topic 2 years or so ago, I have not opinion on popularity , but there is dominant performance  and then there is stupid and from what I have read this and others by this team have been seen before = dodgy added to no controls = very dodgy , if Jono and Earle did the same I wold call them out as well

    but for what it is worth most of the negative information and press was towards the UCI and not having testing
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  • Ram

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #48 on: August 30, 2013, 12:28 »
    And for gods sake don't turn it into some xenophobic westerner racism thing with me. If you read any of my blogs or knew anything about me, you'd know I'm not you're A-typical meat head jock. I'd much rather live in Asia that in Australia.
    ?
    Lost me. FWIW, I'd rather be in Australia than most other places, but my boat is likely to be diverted and don't want anything to do with PNG. No offence to PNGTM

    By the way I recon that was Ram 99.9% sure some would say 100%
    Sounds like a :censored.

    Quote
    Not that I have seen or read , I would say most with any history in cycling would say OZ folks dope just as much as anyone , however much that is

    you and I started discussing this very topic 2 years or so ago, I have not opinion on popularity , but there is dominant performance  and then there is stupid and from what I have read this and others by this team have been seen before = dodgy added to no controls = very dodgy , if Jono and Earle did the same I wold call them out as well

    but for what it is worth most of the negative information and press was towards the UCI and not having testing
    Not a believer nor non believer in anyone. Pourseyede, known doper, out with him. Don't have any epo sense myself, thought Pujol might be tempted, willing to not disbelieve him now. The sport, not a singular team, is the one that needs scrutiny, and having a race beats having tests in terms of importance imho, while bandwagon lazy half arse scribes* go banging on globalisation while giving as much a flip about the scene as a hooker gives about his/her/its virginity (not Jono if that wasn't clear).
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  • « Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:43 by multiidfarknugget »

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 12:31 »
    ?
    Lost me. FWIW, I'd rather be in Australia than most other places, but my boat is likely to be diverted and don't want anything to do with PNG. No offence to PNGTM
    Sounds like a :censored.
    Not a believer nor non believer in anyone. Pourseyede, known doper, out with him. Don't have any epo sense myself, thought Pujol might be tempted, willing to not disbelieve him now. The sport, not a singular team, is the one that needs scrutiny, and having a race beats having tests in terms of importance imho, while bandwagon lazy half arses go banging on globalisation while giving as much a flip about the scene as a hooker gives about his/her/its virginity.

    but having a race with testing  is better than a race without testing , but too a point I agree no race is sh*t
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  • Ram

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #50 on: August 30, 2013, 12:37 »
    but having a race with testing  is better than a race without testing , but too a point I agree no race is sh*t
    And who were the sponsors for the race? Think it was the provincial govt handing out rations. Cut through the official speak, and where's the money? Of course the MNCF can't say that they don't have any for this.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #51 on: August 30, 2013, 12:46 »
    And who were the sponsors for the race? Think it was the provincial govt handing out rations. Cut through the official speak, and where's the money? Of course the MNCF can't say that they don't have any for this.

    there will be testing for next , so I guess they found the money

    Does not matter where the money is coming from Money is money , and if a race is to be a certain rating or part of the Asia Federation then it must reach certain standards of with Peds testing should be part of it.

    if no testing have the race just not the official results
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  • Ram

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #52 on: August 30, 2013, 12:59 »
    Might as well not have it then, which is pointless.

    Not part of the rules yet. Last I'll say on this, that is most likely just another govt ration. When the race survives on it, hard to negotiate too much. And for all the criticism of TPT, were there tests last year?
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #53 on: September 16, 2013, 12:35 »
    I tried to find a statement from the Tabriz Team regarding the allegations but this was the only thing I could find, basically saying that there is no competition in Asia

    Quote
    Tabriz had controlled the proceedings from the opening stage, even holding taking an early win through Sohrabi in Stage Three, before the race hit the decisive Stage Four, which featured the tough climbs up Gunung Emas and Kundasang.

    "We had targeted Stage Four so we had prepared for that and we attacked according to plan. Today, we saw a chance for a breakaway and we tried to get another win as a bonus," said Mizbani.

    "Our team was strong and well-prepared for this race. So, I'm happy with our performance. We now lead the UCI Asia Tour teams' standings, but not the individual rankings, so that is our next target."

    Tabriz's performance was on another planet, as they showed today in having four riders in the seven-man breakaway - Mizbani, Sohrabi, Hossein Askari and Pourseyedigolakhour.

    "We know our level is higher than most of the other Asian teams and we should be racing in Europe or America, but there are some political issues in that. Because of sanctions against Iran, it is impossible for us to get visas to enter most countries outside of Asia, so we are limited to racing in the UCI Asia Tour," said Mizbani.

    "I am sure that with our level, we should be able to even win some big races in Europe, and we won't have problems getting invited. The only problem is, because we are Iranian, getting visas would be impossible."

    http://www.tptcycling.ir/english/News/tabid/112/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8/Tour-of-Borneo--Final-Stage.aspx
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #54 on: September 16, 2013, 12:49 »
    There is some truth in that at least.
    Meaning that if the Iranians had the possibility to race in "the West", it would be easier to see if they're really that much better than anyone else in Asia.
    And there would be more testing as well, I presume.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #55 on: September 16, 2013, 17:41 »
    Yeah, it's just a matter of politics that prevents us seeing just how awesome these guys are. Sohrabi did so well during his year at Lotto, after all.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #56 on: September 20, 2013, 15:09 »
    Yeah, it's just a matter of politics that prevents us seeing just how awesome these guys are. Sohrabi did so well during his year at Lotto, after all.
    One swallow making a summer? Could be a hundred reasons why an Iranian fails in Europe, settling in being the top of the list. Limbo about visas being another (definitely), cheating being another possibility, doesn't mean that it has to be the most sinister of them all.

    And just more of a pointer that it's about the team and not the lack of testing itself, not one whisper about East Java. Nobody gave a flip. heck, wonder how many even knew the race took place.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #57 on: September 20, 2013, 15:21 »
    Yeah, it's just a matter of politics that prevents us seeing just how awesome these guys are. Sohrabi did so well during his year at Lotto, after all.
    Tbf I think Lotto were more interested in his sporting value then actually getting anything out of him as a cyclist. Expecting a guy who's not got the ability of Sagan or the connections of Lance to suddenly make the jump from Asian Conti racing to World Tour in just one season and get results is absurd. If they were interested in the rider himself they should have offered at least a 2 year deal.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #58 on: October 21, 2013, 19:05 »
    So word out now is that a two or more Tabriz riders tested positive this year. Only rumours at this stage, but there's some angry people out there.

    Be interesting to see who doesn't race for an allotted period.
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    Re: Doping in Asia
    « Reply #59 on: October 21, 2013, 23:23 »
    Tabriz is scheduled to take part in the Tour d'Indonesia this week, so that might give us an idea (in case it takes place, but apparently it does)
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