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kabloemski

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Gene Doping
« on: July 15, 2013, 08:29 »
Anyone?
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    just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 09:05 »
    Anyone?

    Can play tomorrow kabs.

    What are your questions , there is a grey as well as long term doping may change gene make up and thus be gene doping.

    But list some questions and I can see what I have in the memory and Google banks
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

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    Zam

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 09:38 »
    Answer: Yes

    http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/what-are-types-gene-doping
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.vjolt.net/vol15/issue1/v15i1_76%20-%20fore.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Gene doping: the hype and the reality
    D J Wells
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439520/
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 11:11 »
    Can play tomorrow kabs.

    PMSL :meow Just feeling it out, I only heard about it a week or so ago, so I know flipall.
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 11:14 »
    Answer: Yes

    Thank you, I'll check those out. Always nice to get links off the forum before floundering all over the net searching. Saw via @cyclopathy that WADA refer to it on their site all the time, gonna check that out too.
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  • kabloemski

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 09:47 »
    "@WeAreForensic: Ooh I get quoted in the @yorkshirepost today - Defeating the Dopers http://t.co/p3V2Z1kede"

    http://m.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/features/defeating-the-dopers-a-victory-that-can-only-be-won-if-we-beat-the-desire-to-cheat-1-5858283

    "@WeAreForensic: That comes from the gene doping article published in the uni review and soon to be on my blog here: http://t.co/BGyKFvqikL"

    http://www.weareforensic.co.uk/tag/new-doping/

    Seems a cool guy to follow too

    Quote
    We Are Forensic is run by Dr Tom Bassindale, a lecturer in forensic science who has specialist experience in forensic toxicology. He has established a reputation for providing professional forensic services for the police and courts.  Dr Bassindale is a Member of the Royal Society of Chemistry, The International Association of Forensic Toxicologists and the Society of Hair Testing.

    Also wrote about Oscar Pistorius, interesting for the science for those who follow the case. So did Millard, I think?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 08:17 »
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  • Joachim

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #7 on: October 30, 2013, 08:26 »
    Anyone else spot the Armstrong connection to the report?
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  • "You can't handle the truth"

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #8 on: October 30, 2013, 13:13 »
    A link to the actual abstract/article mentioned in the twitter link.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2013.264457/abstract

    Quote
    Abstract  Previous strength training with or without the use of anabolic steroids facilitates subsequent re-acquisition of muscle mass even after long intervening periods of inactivity. Based on in vivo and ex vivo microscopy we here propose a cellular memory mechanism residing in the muscle cells. Female mice were treated with testosterone propionate for 14 days, inducing a 66% increase in the number of myonuclei and a 77% increase in fibre cross sectional area.

    Three weeks after removing the drug, fibre size was decreased to the same level as in sham treated animals, but the number of nuclei remained elevated for at least 3 months (>10% of the mouse lifespan). At this time, when the myonuclei-rich muscles were exposed to overload-exercise for 6 days, the fibre cross sectional area increased by 31% while control muscles did not grow significantly. We suggest that the lasting, elevated number of myonuclei constitutes a cellular memory facilitating subsequent muscle overload hypertrophy.

    Our findings might have consequences for the exclusion time of doping offenders. Since the ability to generate new myonuclei is impaired in the elderly our data also invites speculation that it might be beneficial to perform strength training when young in order to benefit in senescence.


    Edit: For the lazy reader, I inserted the abstract as a quote.
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  • « Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 13:58 by Gotland »
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    just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 16:08 »
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 20:17 »
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancer-specialist-outlines-new-method-to-detect-doping

    Götland  7 days to late 're our chat with jv :D

    Darn, maybe we should  send the link to JV now?  Really tell him that we were right  :D

    But still the last quote in the last paragraph got my attention "I have said experimentally because there are no epidemiological studies to back this up /.../"   A couple of drops of EPO on a agar plate is a interesting hypothesis but it's a long way from a developed test.

    But still it gor me thinking how is gene doping really defined ? I always thought that it was  something in the line of what DB described, or you managed to change the production of blood cells in your body to keep it at a naturally high level.  It seems to be dual discussion about what it is. Where one is pro-longed or side effects from using doping products and the other is Frankenstein's monster stuff.

    like this one got shared on twitter a couple of days ago which is posted here too, it was picked  up as gene doping but really is  about prolonged effects.
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 06:30 »
    Darn, maybe we should  send the link to JV now?  Really tell him that we were right  :D

    But still the last quote in the last paragraph got my attention "I have said experimentally because there are no epidemiological studies to back this up /.../"   A couple of drops of EPO on a agar plate is a interesting hypothesis but it's a long way from a developed test.

    But still it gor me thinking how is gene doping really defined ? I always thought that it was  something in the line of what DB described, or you managed to change the production of blood cells in your body to keep it at a naturally high level.  It seems to be dual discussion about what it is. Where one is pro-longed or side effects from using doping products and the other is Frankenstein's monster stuff.

    like this one got shared on twitter a couple of days ago which is posted here too, it was picked  up as gene doping but really is  about prolonged effects.

    depends on how you define Gene doping I guess

    the real issue we just do not know the results positive or negative

    so for me at the moment anything which changes the Gene profile goes under the heading Gene Doping
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 11:36 »

    the real issue we just do not know the results positive or negative

    so for me at the moment anything which changes the Gene profile goes under the heading Gene Doping
    At some point later I read the great articles posted in the thread :fp Now I sort of know what gene doping is.

    That article in CN sounded like first there was an issue of fundamental research before a test could be developed, that process could take several years.



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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #13 on: December 18, 2013, 19:54 »
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 20:09 »
    Interesting article hopefully a urine test will be developed. I just saw muscle biopsy testing in front of me.  At the doping control:

     - Right I see you've been selected for muscle biopsy. Show me your thigh and this won't take long.

    - Bbbut I have a mountain stage tomorrow. You can't take a piece of my muscle now?

    -Oh, stop being squeamish. This will only sting a bit...

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  • just some guy

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    just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 07:58 »
    https://twitter.com/festinagirl/status/422636574309105664

    see if I have worked out how to embed not using html and a tablet
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #17 on: January 13, 2014, 08:02 »
    https://twitter.com/festinagirl/status/422636574309105664

    see if I have worked out how to embed not using html and a tablet

    genius

    Have a read very interesting stuff
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #18 on: January 13, 2014, 08:17 »
    genius

    Have a read very interesting stuff

    Even better at the bottom there's a link to a podcast too =)
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 11:47 »
    Here's a documentary from BBC I think it's a slightly longer version of the BBC 5 live podcast found in JSG's post.

    In both programmes there's an episode of an epidemiologist whom got a visit from former cyclists supposedly representing an anti-doping organisation. They showed a keen interest in the professors work and they were eager to take his experimental work into "field testing ".


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/docarchive
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 13:49 »
    An analysis of the long-term effects of performance-enhancing drugs

    long just had a quick read.

    Gotland and I chatted with JV re this stuff months ago he is very sure EPO has no long term affects science still working it out but looking like it might have some

    n=1 of course with all this sort of stuff
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 19:32 »
    An analysis of the long-term effects of performance-enhancing drugs

    long just had a quick read.

    Gotland and I chatted with JV re this stuff months ago he is very sure EPO has no long term affects science still working it out but looking like it might have some

    n=1 of course with all this sort of stuff

    I think there's a case to argue of the long term effects of EPO use. JV is talking about old school massive users of EPO, and many riders developed hyporesponsiveness to the drug i.e. their bone marrow stops producing red blood cells.

    The same thing happening to body builders' massive use of testosteron, their testicles stops producing testosteron and all fun things associated with that such as erectile problems and depression. In both cases the bodys capability of homeostasis (as discussed in the article) is put out of order by drug abuse.

    Very little is said about micro dosing and what effects that might have on the body, more than hyporesponsiveness is not common at all, and iirc some articles posted in the blood doping thread discuss the issue of long term effects of EPO use. The effect lasts atleast for months rather than weeks.

    I
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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 19:59 »
    I think there's a case to argue of the long term effects of EPO use. JV is talking about old school massive users of EPO, and many riders developed hyporesponsiveness to the drug i.e. their bone marrow stops producing red blood cells.

    The same thing happening to body builders' massive use of testosteron, their testicles stops producing testosteron and all fun things associated with that such as erectile problems and depression. In both cases the bodys capability of homeostasis (as discussed in the article) is put out of order by drug abuse.

    Very little is said about micro dosing and what effects that might have on the body, more than hyporesponsiveness is not common at all, and iirc some articles posted in the blood doping thread discuss the issue of long term effects of EPO use. The effect lasts atleast for months rather than weeks.

    I

    Still all those effects are negative in terms of competing, the only thing of concern is advantages lasting longer than the doping bans. Because that would mean you could dope, get caught and be in a better place than before. There was talks about steroids having such an effect that it had an effect in the brain I believe that lasted the rest of the life that was enhancing performance. It was in the news, but I couldn't find it on Google.
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #23 on: February 20, 2014, 20:26 »
    Because that would mean you could dope, get caught and be in a better place than before.

    This is the big question in the article and elsewere.  How much do you really gain from doping? Besides the obvious, winning competitions, obtaining lucrative contracts etc. Personally, I think dopers gain more long term effects than *we* meaning science know. Therefore, longer bans would be in place.
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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #24 on: February 20, 2014, 21:06 »
    This is the big question in the article and elsewere.  How much do you really gain from doping? Besides the obvious, winning competitions, obtaining lucrative contracts etc. Personally, I think dopers gain more long term effects than *we* meaning science know. Therefore, longer bans would be in place.

    I would expect the negative effects to be bigger long term than the positive. The amount a doper can use is capped by the limit at which one will test positive and I think as dopers become used to doping the limit of where they test positive comes closer to what their natural performance is.
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  • Gotland

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 21:26 »
    I would expect the negative effects to be bigger long term than the positive. The amount a doper can use is capped by the limit at which one will test positive and I think as dopers become used to doping the limit of where they test positive comes closer to what their natural performance is.

    For sure, but the question is how much do you gain when you stop using drugs, or could you not been able to sustain a career as a pro without the drugs?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #27 on: May 02, 2016, 07:52 »
    Dopers could benefit for decades according to new study  via @Cycling Today via @Linkis_com http://ln.is/cycling-today.com/WraJ5#.Vyb41mB1VXU.twitter
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Gene Doping
    « Reply #29 on: February 13, 2017, 12:18 »
    for you loves of sport and science

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1606202

    TARGT Gene Therapy Platform for Correction of Anemia in End-Stage Renal Disease

    Quote
    We performed studies of TARGTEPO in vitro and in vivo (in SCID [severe combined immunodeficient] mice) and measured the secretion of erythropoietin. By assessing the rate of erythropoietin secretion into the media and the amount of erythropoietin secreted, we estimated the dose of recombinant erythropoietin that would typically be needed for each patient. We then washed the TARGTEPO units extensively to remove residual culture media and implanted the appropriate number subcutaneously into each patient.3 We found that erythropoietin secreted from TARGTEPO units had an isoform pattern similar to that of secreted endogenous erythropoietin
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