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How do you rate the sale of Riis Cycling to Oleg Tinkov, becoming Tinkoff Sports?

Positive
6 (24%)
Negative
10 (40%)
Couldn't care
4 (16%)
Other/Vino
5 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 25


Jimmythecuckoo

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Tinkoff
« on: July 25, 2013, 15:06 »
The end of the affair with Tinkoff... Riis quotes differences in opinion with Oleg...




Quote
Alright, I'm going to play along here. Riis is in trouble because of results. But just how bad have Tinkoff-Saxo's results been?

I've done a few sums and come up with a few tables[1]... I'm looking at wins, 2nd and 3rd places and top-10 placings. These are cumulative numbers, by the way - so 1 win is also 1 Top-10. For the sake of my own sanity, I have not attempted to weight the results for "importance". But it is worth pointing out that I have compared these results only with other WT teams. We're at quite a good stage of the season for such a comparison, because all the teams will have ridden at the same sort of number and quality of races.

So - Tinkoff-Saxo themselves...

 #tinkoff
     Rider     Wins     2nd     3rd     Top-10 
1   SAGAN Peter   1   4   -   14
2   CONTADOR Alberto   1   2   -   7
3   BODNAR Maciej   -   1   -   4
4   MAJKA Rafa?   -   -   -   3
5   BRESCHEL Matti   -   -   -   3
6   HANSEN Jesper   -   -   -   2
7   BOARO Manuele   -   -   -   2
8   KREUZIGER Roman   -   -   -   2
9   KOLAR Michael   -   -   1   2
10   ROGERS Michael   -   -   -   2
11   TRUSOV Nikolay   -   -   -   2
12   VALGREN Michael   -   -   -   2
13   BRUTT Pavel   -   -   -   1

A total of 2 wins, 7 2nd places, 1 3rd place and a total 46 Top-10 finishes. It puts them 10th in the CQ Team Ranking for this year so far.

So what would a good start to the season have looked like? QuickStep are top of the CQ table at the moment, but their specialism is the one-day races that pepper the early season. Perhaps a better comparison would be Team Sky - currently 2nd.

 #sky
     Rider     Wins     2nd     3rd     Top-10 
1   PORTE Richie   6   1   -   10
2   THOMAS Geraint   2   1   1   9
3   SWIFT Ben   -   1   1   6
4   FROOME Christopher   2   1   -   5
5   VIVIANI Elia   1   2   2   5
6   STANNARD Ian   1   -   -   4
7   NIEVE Mikel   -   -   1   3
8   HENAO Sebastian   -   1   1   3
9   KENNAUGH Peter   -   -   -   3
10   ROWE Luke   -   -   -   3
11   POELS Wout   1   -   -   3
12   SUTTON Chris   -   -   1   2
13   SIUTSOU Kanstantsin   -   -   -   2
14   KIRYIENKA Vasil   -   -   1   2
15   BOSWELL Ian   -   -   -   2
16   KöNIG Leopold   -   -   1   2
17   WIGGINS Bradley   -   -   1   1
18   PATE Danny   -   -   -   1
19   NORDHAUG Lars Petter   -   -   -   1

13 wins, 7 runners-up, 10 3rd places and a total of 67 top-10 placings. Little Richie tops the win rankings on account of his Madone-topping early-season form. Of course, he kicked off earlier than anyone, winning the Australian ITT championships.

What about a team with a more similar make-up - Russian billionaire backing, ageing Spanish leader with even older Italian sidekick, young sprint sensation with the world at his feet... it can only be Team Katusha.

 #katusha
     Rider     Wins     2nd     3rd     Top-10 
1   KRISTOFF Alexander   5   2   1   14
2   ŠPILAK Simon   -   2   1   5
3   PORSEV Alexander   -   -   -   5
4   MACHADO Tiago   -   -   1   5
5   MORENO Daniel   -   -   -   5
6   SELIG Rüdiger   -   -   1   4
7   TSATEVICH Alexey   -   -   1   4
8   ZAKARIN Ilnur   -   -   -   3
9   CARUSO Giampaolo   -   -   -   3
10   VOROBYEV Anton   1   1   -   3
11   LOSADA Alberto   -   -   -   3
12   CHERNETCKII Sergei   -   -   -   3
13   RODRíGUEZ Joaquim   -   -   2   2
14   VICIOSO Ángel   -   -   -   1
15   BELKOV Maxim   -   -   -   1
16   HALLER Marco   -   -   1   1

6-5-8 for the podium positions, and a total 62 in the Top-10, puts Katusha 5th in the team ranking. But without Vorobyev's prologue win in the 3 Days of West Flanders, Kristoff would be the sole winner. The big names of Machado, Moreno and particularly Rodriguez have yet to really make an impact. Certainly, Ekimov shouldn't be gloating to Oleg.

In a similar fashion, Astana's results (6/7/3-48) are dominated by Guardini's quartet of wins in Langkawi, meaning they actually sit in 12th in the team ranking. And like Tinkoff and Katusha, the big names haven't got started yet.

And what of the bottom of the pile? Team Cannondale-Garmin, undoubtedly with a talented roster at their disposal, and undoubtedly with work to do to merge two different teams into one coherent unit, have not had a great start to 2015.

 #tcg
#     Rider     Wins     #2     #3     Top10 
1   NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas   -   -   -   4
2   MOSER Moreno   -   -   -   2
3   FORMOLO Davide   -   -   1   2
4   HAAS Nathan   -   -   1   2
5   DOMBROWSKI Joe   -   -   -   2
6   TALANSKY Andrew   -   -   -   1

Two 3rd place finishes among a total 13 top-10s surely won't be making Vaughters or Wegelius smile. But perhaps the Anglo-American team has a greater patience than our friend Oleg. Perhaps they have set whole-season goals that they are working towards slowly and steadily.

Whatever the reasoning, "results" should never been the driving force behind a personnel change, especially just before a major race goal - Contador's shot at the Giro. "Results" on their own can never tell the whole story.
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 17:21 by L'arri »
    The fens are just West West Flanders really...

    Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 15:15 »
    And oleg is starting his own team
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    Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 15:20 »
    I was amazed Riis had the cheek to complain about the ethics and ethos of others but hey ho :)
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 15:32 »
    Tinkoff strikes me as someone who know close to nothing about cycling. A lot of his pulling out seems to have a lot to do with Contador not being able to win the Tour. If he knew anything about cycling with the season Froome and Contador have each had, he should have expected the possibility of Contador doing bad in the Tour a very real possibility.

    Sad that Saxo will lose a sponsor (hopefully they can find a way to still remain in business), but we don't need sponsor like Tinkov in cycling.
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  • ansimi

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 18:07 »
    Tinkoff is so gossipy and yet criticizes Contador for being "unprofessional".
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  • batchuba

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 00:01 »
    Oleg sure is a complete savage. I guess that's the type of scum who got ahead during the heat of Russian disputations.

    I guess we'll miss him a bit though if he doesn't go ahead and sponsor another team. Such blunt and ferocious coke fueled enthusiasm from an owner was kind of compelling. And hilarious. And horrifying. And wtf.

    You'd pay good money to see a movie that was compelling, hilarious, horrifying and wtf.
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 07:17 »
    Tinkoff is so gossipy and yet criticizes Contador for being "unprofessional".

    above all he is a businessman. What he did on Twitter is better promotion than the team's performance during the race. I don't think it's a coincidence that he came up with that stuff precisely for the start of the Tour.

    he wasn't funny anymore in the end, that's the problem, so he needs a new strategy now, like actually winning races - but it did work for 3 weeks, and sponsoring wise for the three most important of the year
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    Eric

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 04:33 »
    Tinkov is such a nasty piece of work.


    Oleg Tinkov ‏@olegtinkov

    he is not riding Vuelta- he is tired), LOL, what the flip Conta is tired from,one race?He isn't tired to receive monthly HUGE check, though.
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    Jimmythecuckoo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 09:52 »
    Having read the dedicated Tinkov Twitter thread I am still none the wiser that it's actually him.

    Riis and him carrying on would have been a powder keg !
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  • Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #9 on: August 16, 2013, 11:26 »
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #10 on: August 16, 2013, 16:18 »
    Man, every time pro cyclists post some kind of video of them in private, they always have no shirts on. They're not doing any favors for how people perceive a bunch of extra thin guys that ride around in tight form-fitting spandex. :lol Not that there's anything wrong with that. :D

    They do sound pretty good though, got to give them that. :niceday
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  • LukasCPH

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 12:07 »
    http://teamsaxotinkoff.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=4240

    Saxo's press officer leaves the team.
    Send in your resumés! ;)
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    L'arri

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 13:10 »
    http://teamsaxotinkoff.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=4240

    Saxo's press officer leaves the team.
    Send in your resumés! ;)

    Wow, that's a big deal, I think. Damsgaard was one of my earliest followers on Twitter and he struck me as a pretty sharp guy. Wonder if he has a better offer.
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 17:22 »
    http://teamsaxotinkoff.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=4240

    Saxo's press officer leaves the team.
    Send in your resumés! ;)

    I am available!!!
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 11:52 »
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #15 on: November 03, 2013, 08:24 »
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 08:29 »
    What?! :o get the flip outta there Berto
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #17 on: November 03, 2013, 08:34 »
    Since when did Riis own Saxo.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 08:38 »
    Since when did Riis own Saxo.

    Ever since Riis Cycling became the license holder.
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #19 on: November 03, 2013, 08:40 »
    I mean the Bank... I think it's worth a bit more than 7 million. If Tinkov has bought Riis Cycling's assets and contracts then Saxo will no longer be in the sport.
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  • Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #20 on: November 03, 2013, 08:55 »
    I mean the Bank... I think it's worth a bit more than 7 million. If Tinkov has bought Riis Cycling's assets and contracts then Saxo will no longer be in the sport.

    The way I read it is that Tinkov becomes the ownee of the team and perhaps co-sponsor, and Saxo Bank stays as a sponsor.
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #21 on: November 03, 2013, 09:19 »
    ADD report in Jan is the reason apparently
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #22 on: November 03, 2013, 09:19 »
    I mean the Bank... I think it's worth a bit more than 7 million. If Tinkov has bought Riis Cycling's assets and contracts then Saxo will no longer be in the sport.

    yep

    Tinkoff will be the sponsor , 7 m is for buses, licence etc I assume
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  • Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #23 on: November 03, 2013, 09:28 »
    yep

    Tinkoff will be the sponsor , 7 m is for buses, licence etc I assume

    Why would Saxo not be the sponsor?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #24 on: November 03, 2013, 09:31 »
    Why would Saxo not be the sponsor?

    the agreement would be with Riis cycling, I assume not Tinkoff


    The same will be for the contracts of the riders, but who would leave , and Tinkoff will sign riders he wants to long term contract ie AC or say ok cool no ride next year have fun again I assume

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  • Flo

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #25 on: November 03, 2013, 09:42 »
    the agreement would be with Riis cycling, I assume not Tinkoff


    The same will be for the contracts of the riders, but who would leave , and Tinkoff will sign riders he wants to long term contract ie AC or say ok cool no ride next year have fun again I assume

    Meh

    Count on Tinkov to ruin a team
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  • Carlo Algatrensig

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #26 on: November 03, 2013, 09:51 »
    I mean the Bank... I think it's worth a bit more than 7 million. If Tinkov has bought Riis Cycling's assets and contracts then Saxo will no longer be in the sport.

    It will surely depend on the nature of the sale. If Tinkov has bought the company Riis Cycling as a going concern then surely the agreement that Saxo Bank has with the company that is Riis Cycling would still be valid under the new owner.
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #27 on: November 03, 2013, 09:56 »
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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #28 on: November 03, 2013, 10:07 »
    It will surely depend on the nature of the sale. If Tinkov has bought the company Riis Cycling as a going concern then surely the agreement that Saxo Bank has with the company that is Riis Cycling would still be valid under the new owner.

    The existing agreement was for sole title sponsorship, a Tinkov takeover means Tinkoff as the main sponsor, so the Saxo deal would have to be renegotiated if they were to stay.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: Tinkoff-Saxo
    « Reply #29 on: November 03, 2013, 10:10 »
    It's in English now so it must be true. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-riis-sells-saxo-bank-team-to-tinkov

    How this person is still in vicinity of this sport is beyond me. If he's paid that much, it's unlikely the team will be sponsored by Saxo Bank itself next year.
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