collapse


L'arri

  • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
  • Grand Tour Winner
  • *
  • Country: be
  • Posts: 8065
  • Liked: 6772
  • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
    • Dopeology.org
  • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2014, 08:47 »
Something warms in your heart when the French do well, not sure why but it does

Even a cranky old sod like you has a soft heart for a good story. I'm the same. But then I weep at Casablanca, so that's no measure of anything.
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon / Larry Sarni

    LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 11512
    • Liked: 7409
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #31 on: September 25, 2014, 09:49 »
    Very nice little article on L'Equipe.fr today ahead of the Worlds RR, of which I am going to translate a few parts:

    Do French riders mature poorly?
    You could essentially do the same graph over Danish riders. World-class at the juniors, still very good as U23s, but nowhere near that level as elites.
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's WorldTour Correspondent
    2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    Capt_Cavman

    • Road Captain
    • Country: jp
    • Posts: 1917
    • Liked: 1285
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #32 on: September 25, 2014, 11:26 »
    It's a shame.

    The French press are clearly as incompetent when it comes to analysis as French riders are at winning elite races.

    For a start 3 of the 5 medals at U23 level have come within the last 3 years. Development from U23 champion to grown up champion typically would take longer.

    Then there is the issue of whether U23 RR success is any guide to elite RR success. The following table would suggest it isn't,whether you're French or not...


    Championships Gold Silver Bronze
    1996 Lugano Giuliano Figueras (ITA)    Roberto Sgambelluri (ITA)    Luca Sironi (ITA)
    1997 San Sebastián    Kurt-Asle Arvesen (NOR)    Óscar Freire (ESP)    Gerrit Glomser (AUT)
    1998 Valkenburg Ivan Basso (ITA)    Rinaldo Nocentini (ITA)    Danilo Di Luca (ITA)
    1999 Verona Leonardo Giordani (ITA)    Luca Paolini (ITA)    Matthias Kessler (GER)
    2000 Plouay Evgeni Petrov (RUS)    Yaroslav Popovych (UKR)    Lorenzo Bernucci (ITA)
    2001 Lisbon Yaroslav Popovych (UKR)    Giampaolo Caruso (ITA)    Ruslan Gryschenko (UKR)
    2002 Zolder and Hasselt Francesco Chicchi (ITA)    Francisco Gutierrez (ESP)    David Loosli (SUI)
    2003 HamiltonSergey Lagutin (UZB)    Johan Van Summeren (BEL)    Thomas Dekker (NED)
    2004 Verona Kanstantsin Siutsou (BLR)    Thomas Dekker (NED)    Mads Christensen (DEN)
    2005 Madrid Dmitry Grabovskiy (UKR)    William Walker (AUS)    Yevgeni Popov (RUS)
    2006 Salzburg Gerald Ciolek (GER)    Romain Feillu (FRA)    Alexander Khatuntsev (RUS)
    2007 Stuttgart Peter Velits (SVK)    Wesley Sulzberger (AUS)    Jonathan Bellis (GBR)
    2008 Varese    Fabio Duarte (COL)    Simone Ponzi (ITA)    John Degenkolb (GER)
    2009 MendrisioRomain Sicard (FRA)    Carlos Betancur (COL)    Egor Silin (RUS)
    2010 Geelong Michael Matthews (AUS)    John Degenkolb (GER)    Guillaume Boivin (CAN)/ Taylor Phinney (USA)
    2011 Copenhagen Arnaud Démare (FRA)    Adrien Petit (FRA)    Andrew Fenn (GBR)
    2012 LimburgAlexey Lutsenko (KAZ)    Bryan Coquard (FRA) Tom Van Asbroeck (BEL)
    2013 Firenze    Matej Mohorič (SLO)    Louis Meintjes (RSA)    Sondre Holst Enger (NOR)

    With the exception of Basso, maybe Popovych and possibly Matthews in the future, success in the U23 RR seems to be a ticket for the second tier irrespective of nationality.
  • ReplyReply

  • ciranda

    • Domestic Rider
    • Country: va
    • Posts: 127
    • Liked: 230
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #33 on: September 25, 2014, 23:46 »
    You could essentially do the same graph over Danish riders. World-class at the juniors, still very good as U23s, but nowhere near that level as elites.

    Sicard is a good example, right? Difference is that French teams give them time as opposed to CSC/Saxo who have always abandoned younger guys first chance they got.
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8065
    • Liked: 6772
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 12:10 »
    A fact that has been largely overlooked is that France placed three riders in the top 20 at the Worlds RR. It's not a measure in itself, I suppose, due to tactics and whatnot but no other nation achieved that.

    Three completely different types of rider too: Gallopin (puncheur, 6th), Bouhanni (sprinter, 10th) and Barguil (climber, 19th).
  • ReplyReply

  • cj2002

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: pt
    • Posts: 2893
    • Liked: 3257
    • Honorary President
    • Awards: Best avatar 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 12:12 »
    A fact that has been largely overlooked is that France placed three riders in the top 20 at the Worlds RR. It's not a measure in itself, I suppose, due to tactics and whatnot but no other nation achieved that.

    Three completely different types of rider too: Gallopin (puncheur, 6th), Bouhanni (sprinter, 10th) and Barguil (climber, 19th).

    French Revolution = Occurred.



  • ReplyReply
  • He shook his head sadly and told me that endemic drug use had compelled him to give up a promising career. "Even one small local race, prize was a salami, and I see doping!" - Tim Moore: Gironimo (Riding the Very Terrible 1914 Tour of Italy)

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8065
    • Liked: 6772
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 12:15 »
    French Revolution = Occurred.



    Yeah, that was actually a gross omission on my part. I should have said that the above was anyway academic in comparison to PFP's result! :D
  • ReplyReply

  • cj2002

    • Classics Winner
    • *
    • Country: pt
    • Posts: 2893
    • Liked: 3257
    • Honorary President
    • Awards: Best avatar 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 12:26 »
    Yeah, that was actually a gross omission on my part. I should have said that the above was anyway academic in comparison to PFP's result! :D

    I'll forgive you, just this once...
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8065
    • Liked: 6772
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #38 on: September 15, 2015, 17:01 »
    Just the year and it was sneaked into the news; no grand fan fare. I hadn't realised until I looked that he signed when he was 19/20, so he's been there 4/5 years already. It's perfectly reasonable to argue he might benefit from a change, but where?  I guess he'd stay French and they do all swap around.

    He's a strange one I just don't know what to make of him. Did he start high and this is his level? Has he lost his way somewhere on the team? He is, as the team website says, 'as light as a feather' and I've heard the stories re "they struggle to find races with tough enough climbs for him". Is there such a thing as being too light?

    Yes, he's a bit of an enigma - but he'll still be on my CQ team next year. I live in hope.

    Enigma for sure, Le Bon heading that way and of course there is Offredo, might be Marc ?

    And all 3 be on my CQ team 2016 :lol

    not sure what it says about me

    Some thoughts on French cycling.

    ---

    Thesis 1: Sans corps

    French cycling no longer generates proper stage racers. Pinot is the only young Frenchman in an exciting and very talented crop who could realistically challenge for a respectable GC.

    Geniez, Elissonde, Jeannesson, Bardet, Latour, Vuillermoz ... there are lots of these very capable young climbers who might be great for picking off a stage or thrilling us with their antics on one or two days, but most couldn't pull of a one week title, let alone a three week one.

    Problem is that stage racing has become such a formulaic, train-oriented affair dominated by other, bigger names with better team support and skills against the clock that even picking off a stage is a lottery nowadays. These guys to a man are mere opportunists.

    Thesis 2: Sans tête

    French cycling no longer generates proper leaders. When was the last time we saw an FDJ or an AG2R, as the best funded of the French teams, really riding for one leader?

    FDJ is structurally weak at best as a team. That's why, like its poor relation Europcar, you will see more FDJ jerseys skulking at the back of the bunch than almost any other team. And why? FDJ is physically not that strong but more than that, it has nobody for whom to ride.

    AG2R is stronger but is it riding for Péraud or Bardet or someone else? Their high profile imports - Pozzovivo and (in the past) Betancur - tend to command the reins instead.

    It's left to Cofidis to give us an example of how a team must rally behind its leader in a way we actually recognise in today's pro cycling. Sure, there's no I in team but there's an important one in WIN.

    Thesis 3: Sans bras

    French cycling has never generated proper Classics racers. French amateur and youth racing is scrappy and choppy and rarely formulaic and that explains why we love a Domont or a Le Bon or a Vichot or an Offredo, or indeed our latest one-day wonder Gougeard.

    These are all good solid racers but of the two solitary vedettes on the flat, Bouhanni isn't top-tier in the opinion of anyone but himself and Démare, who has been woeful this year, has yet to decide if he's a sprinter or a rouleur. We root around and try to shoehorn them into roles they don't suit: hence why Turgot can't deliver and Gaudin never finishes as well as we expect.

    ---

    All this is to say that, coming from yours truly - an avowed enthusiast of French cycling - and notwithstanding the Dark Side, here is a nation that remains uncompetitive at the top level of the sport because it is stuck in the twentieth century, run by old hands like Sanquer, Madiot and Lavenu. And none of them have ever run a team after Guimard's example.

    French cycling is good at nurturing youngsters but it isn't great at anything with the seniors. As the Lausanne Report confirmed, it is slow to respond to developments in science and management in a sport that is already pretty slow.
  • ReplyReply
  • « Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 19:34 by L'arri »

    L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 8065
    • Liked: 6772
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 09:19 »
    I moved my post from above to this thread because I had a little more to say on the topic.

    The heady euphoria of 2014 is, I think, but a fond memory. The golden boys of last year's Tour de France were placed within their proper context in a tough edition where Froome and Contador both stayed upright, Quintana got consistent and Nibali was shunted.

    True, we still found two Frenchmen in the top 10 when the race reached Paris and there were three French stage wins before we got there, but there was nevertheless a mild dose of reality on GC: in business as usual conditions, we are still no closer to a French podium, let alone a French winner.

    The French Revolution is slowing down.
  • ReplyReply

  • Not My Circus

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1620
    • Liked: 1599
    • Something about Danish cycling I love
    Re: Is there a French Revolution occurring
    « Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 10:49 »
    I moved my post from above to this thread because I had a little more to say on the topic.


    I am pleased to see it moved here, your reply to my post was a very interesting read and of course threw up more discussions points - which somehow didn't seem relevant to Kenny Elissonde staying put at FDJ. I'll try gather the somewhat scattered thoughts  I had and  post in due course..
  • ReplyReply

  •  

    Recent Posts



    Top
    Back to top