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just some guy

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Re: team Sky news
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2012, 12:18 »
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  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    Dancing on the Pedals

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #121 on: June 12, 2012, 20:21 »
    Agree to disagree, I think he's a good fit. It's the Colombians who seem out of place, and what's happened to Xandio this year? He was Sky's favourite domestique in 2011.

    I'm with Dim I think.  I don't like the idea that all British cycling talent will instantly gravitate towards Sky - hence why I like seeing Blythe and Fenn do well, so would like to see JTL prosper elsewhere.  But who would  take him and give him a good shot at racing in the Ardennes - where he seems best suited, and also give him the support that he would undoubtedly get at Sky?
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    Dim

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #122 on: June 12, 2012, 20:29 »
    Garmin?
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  • Dancing on the Pedals

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #123 on: June 12, 2012, 20:51 »
    Garmin?

    Good shout.  He and Dan Martin would be quite a handy double act if that happened.  Add him to the Uran/Henao/Nordhaug trio and you potentially get too many chiefs...
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  • DinZ

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #124 on: June 14, 2012, 23:37 »
    Cannot win with some people. Sky meet with ASO (apparently something they have done twice a year since before they were even a full team) to present information on the team and help prove that they are clean and trying to change the mindset of the sport and everyone sees it as proof they are dirty

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-meeting-with-aso-is-routine-team-says
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  • Tuart

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #125 on: June 15, 2012, 03:39 »
    Oh come on Dave, yeah nothing suspicious about it at all... ::)
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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #126 on: June 15, 2012, 05:26 »
    If people want to see it as suspicious, it will be suspicious. I don't think it's a save me from doping scandals plea yet, and what would the ASO do with regards to doping?
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  • Tuart

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #127 on: June 15, 2012, 05:28 »
    If they're the only team doing it, yes. Then you also have to ask why they are in contact to begin with.
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  • DinZ

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #128 on: June 15, 2012, 05:35 »
    If they're the only team doing it, yes. Then you also have to ask why they are in contact to begin with.

    i think they started doing it in 2009 in case they did not get world tour and were reliant on wild card entries

    they are keen to show they are clean

    i honestly do not understand how a team publishing data to show to an external party that they are clean makes them more suspicious. that really does not make any sense at all and shows the mentality people have got into
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #129 on: June 15, 2012, 05:50 »
    Mind, going to the UCI or WADA would've been proper dodgy, but ASO don't do doping controls.

    Also, would Wiggins' season have been as good if the routes were less TT friendly or if someone, or anyone, attacked him more often? Westra did in one stage and he almost won the PN.
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  • Dancing on the Pedals

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #130 on: June 15, 2012, 07:32 »
    Also, would Wiggins' season have been as good if the routes were less TT friendly or if someone, or anyone, attacked him more often? Westra did in one stage and he almost won the PN.

    Not Wiggo's fault if the opposition don't bring the fight to him.  Conversely, Sky have raced superbly all year and done their best to minimise opportunities for others to attack - Dauphine being the most obvious recent example. 

    I don't read too much into Sky showing their data to ASO, I think it is just a part of them trying to be open etc regarding doping.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #131 on: June 15, 2012, 08:29 »
    i think they started doing it in 2009 in case they did not get world tour and were reliant on wild card entries

    they are keen to show they are clean

    i honestly do not understand how a team publishing data to show to an external party that they are clean makes them more suspicious. that really does not make any sense at all and shows the mentality people have got into

    It's highly irregular if not highly suspicious, I couldn't give two curry-filled farts one way or the other about Sky but doing something "different" is always going to be viewed as weird, if you can't accept that then don't you have the same mentality as the "antis", just with the shoe on the other foot?
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #132 on: June 15, 2012, 08:39 »
    No, it's a case of giving the benefit of the doubt for now. They showed some numbers to the ASO. Right, now tell me why you find it unimaginably suspicious? That they'll be immune to doping positives? When did the ASO take over those duties? If BMC's tyres get mysteriously punctured during the tour, then we'll have a definite reason to suspect them. Had they gone to the UCI or WADA, then defo reason to suspect them.

    If you couldn't give a couple of curry filled farts, why bother about it?
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  • Tuart

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #133 on: June 15, 2012, 11:59 »
    No, it's a case of giving the benefit of the doubt for now. They showed some numbers to the ASO. Right, now tell me why you find it unimaginably suspicious? That they'll be immune to doping positives? When did the ASO take over those duties? If BMC's tyres get mysteriously punctured during the tour, then we'll have a definite reason to suspect them. Had they gone to the UCI or WADA, then defo reason to suspect them.

    If you couldn't give a couple of curry filled farts, why bother about it?

    I'm entitled to have an opinion about something, even if it seemingly goes against what others think. Also should be allowed to have that opinion without being labelled bias one way, clearly from someone with feelings the opposite way too. How is that any better?

    I view this as suspicious, woe is me for being so cynical in this sport.  ::) Whatever their reasons for doing so '09 that was 3 seasons ago, why the need to do so now? There is certainly no worry for Sky now to lose their WT license (apart from obvious factors that apply to all teams) so how is that a concern now? Have wildcard teams this year "proven" themselves too? Are they sucking up, it certainly looks like it and no one likes the teachers pet, so its an highly presumptuous act, however you look at it.

    If this came to light in '09 of course people would comment about it and apart from the CN bashes who are a lot more inflammatory in their thoughts towards Sky than I, I don't think anyway would think its outrageous, just suspicious as I pointed out.  If people think that's because of some vendetta against Sky then they have their own problems that need addressing.
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #134 on: June 15, 2012, 12:14 »
    Mind, I wasn't the one who said the farting bit, just asked you what you said.

    Again, my question was why? That's still to be answered. If teacher's pet is the best that's there, well I'll leave it.

    I've explained my position, biased or not, and I don't love Sky.
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  • benotti69

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #135 on: June 15, 2012, 12:48 »
    Cannot win with some people. Sky meet with ASO (apparently something they have done twice a year since before they were even a full team) to present information on the team and help prove that they are clean and trying to change the mindset of the sport and everyone sees it as proof they are dirty

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-meeting-with-aso-is-routine-team-says

    If you are trying to change the mindset of the sport surely campaigning to clean out the UCI is the place to start. making sure the testing is done by WADA letting journalists like Kimmage spent a TdF and a crucial training camp watching the workings of everything leaving no stone unturned etc is the way to go?
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    Slow Rider

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #136 on: June 15, 2012, 12:57 »
    I really don't see the problem. Sky have a meeting with ASO, good for them. It's not like the other teams are forbidden to have these meetings. If Sky do have them, that's a smart move probably, since the ASO is a very important player that is best kept on friendly terms. Other teams should learn from this and hold these meetings too. It would only be unfair or suspicious if other teams were not granted these meetings. But as it stands, with JV apparently also meeting regularly with the ASO, that's not the case. Thus I don't see anything wrong with all this.

    And doping doesn't have anything to do with this. The ASO doesn't do doping checks, so I honestly don't see why that is dragged into this?
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  • Capt_Cavman

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #137 on: June 15, 2012, 13:02 »
    If you are trying to change the mindset of the sport surely campaigning to clean out the UCI is the place to start. making sure the testing is done by WADA letting journalists like Kimmage spent a TdF and a crucial training camp watching the workings of everything leaving no stone unturned etc is the way to go?
    maybe, but that is a totally separate issue. That Sky lobby the ASO has nothing to do with the above so why are people linking it in?

    Whether Sky's lobbying of the ASO is a good thing is another argument. 100Kms of TT anyone?
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  • just some guy

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #138 on: June 15, 2012, 13:07 »
    It is not the meeting for me it is the presentation of blood and training information at the meeting is weird.

    Do you think Bolts people provide that sort of data to the diamond league people?

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #139 on: June 15, 2012, 13:16 »
    I am assuming that to guarantee funding, Sky had to be invited to the Tour ... and to guarantee that (before they were awarded a UCI pro-tour licence) ASO had some conditions.

    Quite honestly, given the history of cycling ... especially at the Tour ... its not that surprising that ASO are taking an interest in this kind of thing.
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #140 on: June 15, 2012, 13:19 »
    maybe, but that is a totally separate issue. That Sky lobby the ASO has nothing to do with the above so why are people linking it in?

    Whether Sky's lobbying of the ASO is a good thing is another argument. 100Kms of TT anyone?
    Which is what I thought originally, and they certainly can't go public and say that the route was such because of such.
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  • AG

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #141 on: June 15, 2012, 13:21 »
    meh - everyone lobbies the ASO in different ways.

    They changed the finish in Leige purely to suit Phil. 
    They openly admit they changed the rules for the Green jersey so that Cav could win

    Its always been open to political manipulation by the players
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #142 on: June 15, 2012, 13:23 »
    While that's true, I don't think it would be in any way prudent for Sky to admit that publicly.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #143 on: June 15, 2012, 13:32 »
    I think this is actually a much less questionable way to ensure favour with the ASO and gain entrance to the Tour than to sponsor it directly, such as Vacansoleil for instance does (or did at least, not sure if they still do), and Cofidis does with the Vuelta. They basically bought their wild-cards, while Sky only present their team and show just how clean they are.
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  • Tuart

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #144 on: June 15, 2012, 14:33 »
    I am assuming that to guarantee funding, Sky had to be invited to the Tour ... and to guarantee that (before they were awarded a UCI pro-tour licence) ASO had some conditions.

    Quite honestly, given the history of cycling ... especially at the Tour ... its not that surprising that ASO are taking an interest in this kind of thing.

    So why have we heard of no other team doing this?

    You forgot NetApp at the Giro this year SlowRider, and yes that sort of sponsoring is dodgy but we know about that. I don't think we're getting the whole story here, certainly not all of why ASO "requires" things from Sky.
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #145 on: June 15, 2012, 14:38 »
    Maybe, just a slight chance that nobody reports it in the media. This wasn't a piece of investigative journalism, it was a case of foot in mouth.
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  • L'arri

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #146 on: June 15, 2012, 14:42 »
    So why have we heard of no other team doing this?

    You forgot NetApp at the Giro this year SlowRider, and yes that sort of sponsoring is dodgy but we know about that. I don't think we're getting the whole story here, certainly not all of why ASO "requires" things from Sky.

    I agree with Tu: a decent explanation (greater than a 50 word PR-bullsh*t soundbite) might have been better. You don't go to - where are they, just south of Paris someplace, I think, Montargis? - and present to an organisation like ASO just for the tea and biscuits.

    One of the world's best funded cycling teams sponsored by an enormously powerful publishing family meeting with a sports event organiser owned by, ahem, an enormously powerful publishing family.

    People have every reason to be suspicious. And I am.
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    Capt_Cavman

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #147 on: June 15, 2012, 15:27 »
    ...

    People have every reason to be suspicious. And I am.

    Suspicious of what?
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  • Jamsque

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #148 on: June 15, 2012, 16:30 »
    Suspicious of what?

    What could be more suspicious than a team that races bikes talking to a company that organises bike races? What could they POSSIBLY be talking about?
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  • L'arri

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #149 on: June 15, 2012, 18:34 »
    Suspicious of what?

    What could be more suspicious than a team that races bikes talking to a company that organises bike races? What could they POSSIBLY be talking about?

    Suspicious of anything at all ever. Closed-door meetings how dare they? How dare they close the door when they're doing a number two?

    At all times I demand to be tweeted.

    I mean suspicious of stuff that organisations do all the time. Even ordering stationery.

    Suspicious of anything that would only look dodgy in pro cycling. Because taking your Gran out for Sunday lunch looks dodgy in pro cycling.  ;D
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