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mc_mountain

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Re: team Sky news
« Reply #420 on: December 27, 2012, 12:22 »
I agree with the point that coverage will depend on success, but 2013 could be the year to break that status quo - ie there could be success in the classics (that might bleed into track world champs coverage) and giro.  We could be in a position where all 3 GTs are covered on itv.  the acid test will be if they show the Vuelta without a brit in it for GC.

Froome will need to show he has 'the numbers' that's what seems to count at Sky, he doesnt need to win any races before the tour if he has the numbers.  the numbers should get him a top 10 at Paris Nice and Dauphine.

At some point I expect Wiggins will talk about success in 2013 being winning the giro, and winning or helping froome win the tour.  Wiggins could win the Giro in such a way as it reinforces Froome as leader for the tour, if it relies on him gaining time in TTs and limiting his loses on the climbs.  On the otherhand if he wins it chasing down attacks and dropping people in the mountains, its likely he'll have gone too deep (physically and mentally) to do it all again, taking on a teammate at the same time, in July.
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    Capt_Cavman

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #421 on: December 27, 2012, 21:32 »
    I agree with the above.

    The racing will get progressively relevant from Paris Nice on, but PN is a bit of an oddity, it's quite possible for none of the GT stars to feature, it's more a question of Froome demonstrating he's able to keep up with the other Tour contenders. If everything goes to plan, Froome will be given leadership of the Dauphiné and will be expected to challenge. Quite what Sky do if he does fail, I don't know.

    If Wiggins fights all the way for the Giro, he won't be able to challenge for the Tour, but he's still a useful foil to take pressure off Froome for the first two weeks. If he doesn't compete fully in the Giro, he falls off or gets ill or any number of issues which can put someone out of contention, then Wiggins could turn up to the Tour in condition to win it.

    Can't come soon enough.
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  • froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #422 on: December 27, 2012, 21:37 »
    And the thing which fuels the flames even more is Ryder Hesjedal's claims that he never felt more on form than just before this year's Tour and that he was in the form of his life then..rather than at the Giro. Especially as he managed to attain his highest training scores at that time ;D

    For some reason I believe Hesjedal especially as he truly believed it himself, he was not just punting for the Tour when he decided to ride it. Though I would expect one's fitness to go down towards the end of a simultaneous Grand Tour as Froome's did at the Vuelta dramatically.

    Then again I would not put anything past Wiggo  ::)
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    Arb

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #423 on: December 28, 2012, 01:32 »
    That is not unusual, but the form evapourates by the 3rd week.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #424 on: December 28, 2012, 11:56 »
    If Wiggo wins the Giro, he'll be mentioned as one of the big favourites for the Tour. Particularly by British media who don't know how hard the Giro-Tour double is. If that were the case, Wiggins would be nominal leader, and when he'd collapse in the third week Froome would take over. The question is, will that protect Froome from the pressure in the first weeks, or will it prevent him from attacking and gaining time?

    If Wiggins does not win the Giro despite finishing, he'll still be a favourite for the Tour, but not as high on the list as when he'd win. More pressure would be on Froome in that case.
    Should Wiggins crash out or abandon without serious injuries, he'll probably want a full shot at the Tour again. That would mean the biggest clash between Wiggins and Froome. I expect great social network fights, women screaming at eachother over Twitter, Cavendish to throw himself into the frame as a mediator, Contador laughing and walking away with the title, and generally just a lot of lovely media quotes. Oh, how I'm looking forward to that..
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  • froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #425 on: December 28, 2012, 12:01 »
    The problem here is that Froome was pretty put out by his treatment in the Vuelta. He was the leader for Sky in the final week (admittedly a toothless final week) but it ended up being too late by then.

    I do not think he will want a repeat of that no matter what, he is generally placid but in terms of the Vuelta debacle he has made his thoughts very clear and if the Tour starts off in a similar vein with him being limited by Wiggins, I do not think he will best pleased and indeed he has a right to be disappointed if it may cost him the Tour, the competition will probably be sterner this year (we have to wait and see, we said the same thing last year.. then Contador was banned, Evans went bad, Samu broke ribs, Menchov was never to be seen again and Schleck went off the map) and he needs every bit of help he can get..
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #426 on: December 28, 2012, 12:09 »
    The problem here is that Froome was pretty put out by his treatment in the Vuelta. He was the leader for Sky in the final week (admittedly a toothless final week) but it ended up being too late by then.

    I do not think he will want a repeat of that no matter what, he is generally placid but in terms of the Vuelta debacle he has made his thoughts very clear and if the Tour starts off in a similar vein with him being limited by Wiggins, I do not think he will best pleased and indeed he has a right to be disappointed if it may cost him the Tour, the competition will probably be sterner this year (we have to wait and see, we said the same thing last year.. then Contador was banned, Evans went bad, Samu broke ribs, Menchov was never to be seen again and Schleck went off the map) and he needs every bit of help he can get..

    Anyone who didnt see Contador's ban coming a mile off has only themselves to blame, Cadel was 35 and the course did not suit Andy Schleck 1 bit (he may have won the Tour for someone else but he would never win it for himself).   So im a bit puzzled to hear there were people who thought the competition would be sterner in 2012.
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  • Despite the self-serving data benders and associated propaganda to the contrary, I am led to believe that there are pockets of organised, highly sophisticated dopers, even within 'new age' cycling teams. Personally, I don't accept that the 'dark era' has ended, it has just morphed into a new guise.

    froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #427 on: December 28, 2012, 12:15 »
    Anyone who didnt see Contador's ban coming a mile off has only themselves to blame, Cadel was 35 and the course did not suit Andy Schleck 1 bit (he may have won the Tour for someone else but he would never win it for himself).   So im a bit puzzled to hear there were people who thought the competition would be sterner in 2012.
    Than in 2011?
    Maybe later I will dig out the previews I had from the beginning of the season on the Tour.. but I personally believe you exxagerate a bit Contador's ban. It was touch and go.. they could never find enough evidence to convict properly in the end. Cadel was 35 but he had never showed any signs of slowing prior to this season and seemed to be getting better with age. You can never discout the reigning Tour champion like that. Andy was still the best climber in the world at the time (ok probably..). And then there was Menchov coming back to the Tour (you personally thought he would have a chance  ;)), Nibs deciding to fight it out for the Tour rather than the Giro.

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  • The Hitch

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #428 on: December 28, 2012, 12:17 »

    If Wiggo wins the Giro, he'll be mentioned as one of the big favourites for the Tour. Particularly by British media who don't know how hard the Giro-Tour double is. If that were the case, Wiggins would be nominal leader, and when he'd collapse in the third week Froome would take over. The question is, will that protect Froome from the pressure in the first weeks, or will it prevent him from attacking and gaining time?

    No the British media will wonder why their only reference point Armstrong never did the Giro and begin to ask questions. After the first 3 cycling experts on their list including Boardman  reply with "Giro? What the hell is that", they will ask Millar or someone and find out that the reason is the Giro Tour double is hard.

    No way do i see the wiggins media dumping extra pressure on their favorite when its clear the Giro is actually a legitimate excuse for underperformance

    Quote

    Should Wiggins crash out or abandon without serious injuries, he'll probably want a full shot at the Tour again. That would mean the biggest clash between Wiggins and Froome. I expect great social network fights, women screaming at eachother over Twitter, Cavendish to throw himself into the frame as a mediator, Contador laughing and walking away with the title, and generally just a lot of lovely media quotes. Oh, how I'm looking forward to that..


    I know you are joking for the most part but Bailsford  has built up an image of himself as a manager who focuses on team spirit, and controlling all the little details. an in team fight played out in the media would destroy both those carefully crafted perceptions and Bailsford will never let that happen.
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #429 on: December 28, 2012, 12:21 »
    I just hope and pray Wiggins will be strong enough to be ahead of Froome after the first ITT, before the real big mountains. Ideally he'd even be in yellow by then (which isn't that unlikely). Now which team is going to make the current GC leader and defending champion work for someone else? Honestly, they can't ask that of poor Wiggo, can they? ;D
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #430 on: December 28, 2012, 12:52 »
    I just hope and pray Wiggins will be strong enough to be ahead of Froome after the first ITT, before the real big mountains. Ideally he'd even be in yellow by then (which isn't that unlikely). Now which team is going to make the current GC leader and defending champion work for someone else? Honestly, they can't ask that of poor Wiggo, can they? ;D
    The solution to that is so simple you appear to have missed it. They won't make wiggins work for froome and they won't make froome work for wiggins.both ride in the train and do what they want in the mountains. In fact that's probably how they play it regardless of whether wiggins is in yellow.or not.

    Unless wiggins feels his strength fading and decides to work for froome voluntarily.
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  • Arb

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #431 on: December 28, 2012, 13:10 »
    I do not foresee Froome doing anything which is not in the best interests of his final GC (whilst he is still in the game).
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #432 on: December 28, 2012, 14:03 »
    Than in 2011?
    Maybe later I will dig out the previews I had from the beginning of the season on the Tour.. but I personally believe you exxagerate a bit Contador's ban. It was touch and go.. they could never find enough evidence to convict properly in the end. Cadel was 35 but he had never showed any signs of slowing prior to this season and seemed to be getting better with age. You can never discout the reigning Tour champion like that. Andy was still the best climber in the world at the time (ok probably..). And then there was Menchov coming back to the Tour (you personally thought he would have a chance  ;)), Nibs deciding to fight it out for the Tour rather than the Giro.
    Contadors case was not touch and go. The rules were clear from the start that contador had to prove  the clen did not come.from.doping and he never had a chance of doing that. The only doubt was from.the cynics asking if his lawyers could somehow bribe  cas to backdate the suspension a year rather than the mandatory 2.

    " you can never discount a reigning tour champion" yes you can. Pereiro sastre, and i don't believe wiggins has a chance at defense either. But im  not discounting Evans just saying he would not make the competition sterner than in 2011 because he was there already at his best in 2011 and could only get weaker with an extra year.

    Menchov yeah i admit he was seen as a real threat by me and others. Especially since the bookies totally underrated him. I thought he would be there and challenge.

    Andy is the best climber but if you look at the route you will see that he would have very few chances to put this climbing skill to any use. The moment the route was announced everyone said this would be a good year for Andy to try the giro. He even had to address these suggestions.


    As for nibali don't make me laugh. He's a true racer with a lot of balls but he has a tt barely better than andy schleck and not half the climber. He might make the competition for a top 5 sterner but there is a long way to go before he adds any major strength to a tdf gc fight.
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  • « Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 14:20 by The Hitch »

    Capt_Cavman

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #433 on: December 28, 2012, 15:08 »
    The solution to that is so simple you appear to have missed it. They won't make wiggins work for froome and they won't make froome work for wiggins.both ride in the train and do what they want in the mountains. In fact that's probably how they play it regardless of whether wiggins is in yellow.or not.

    Unless wiggins feels his strength fading and decides to work for froome voluntarily.
    Absolutely. No Cavendish means that Froome and Wiggins could have a train each. They won't of course, but Porte and Siutsou Kiryenka etc will be able to see off most of the field, and Wiggins and Froome will have to work things out from there.
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  • againsttheclock

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #434 on: December 28, 2012, 15:42 »
    The solution to that is so simple you appear to have missed it. They won't make wiggins work for froome and they won't make froome work for wiggins.both ride in the train and do what they want in the mountains. In fact that's probably how they play it regardless of whether wiggins is in yellow.or not.

    Unless wiggins feels his strength fading and decides to work for froome voluntarily.

    All well and good but if we're down to a group of 8 and Alberto attacks, everyone will look to Wiggins and Froome to make the pace...so who will? 

    Co-captaincy so rarely works. 
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  • Slow Rider

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #435 on: December 28, 2012, 15:52 »
    The solution to that is so simple you appear to have missed it. They won't make wiggins work for froome and they won't make froome work for wiggins.both ride in the train and do what they want in the mountains. In fact that's probably how they play it regardless of whether wiggins is in yellow.or not.

    Unless wiggins feels his strength fading and decides to work for froome voluntarily.

    Aw come on, let a man dream of controversy.. :P

    Also, Againsttheclock makes a good point. If someone gets away and one of the Sky boys has the yellow, they will have to do the chasing. Then who works for who? Porte and Sivtsov can only do so much, when it's Contador, Schleck and Rodriguez attacking they won't be able to help. Froome might jump on the wheels of attackers and refuse to cooperate while Wiggins diesels back up the hill, but Froome would want the stages and time on the rest as well.

    I still hold hope for some fights in the Sky camp, although I fear Hitch will be right and all will be managed effectively.
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  • The Hitch

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #436 on: December 28, 2012, 16:28 »
    All well and good but if we're down to a group of 8 and Alberto attacks, everyone will look to Wiggins and Froome to make the pace...so who will? 

    Co-captaincy so rarely works.
    froome will go with contador. Wiggins will pace hisself or get a teammate to do.it. Or.froome will pace himself and not care if wiggins follows him or not because ultimately froome knows he will be able to break wiggins when he wants.

    As far as im concerned wiggins if he does become.co.captain will be co captain tstrictly for feel.good reasons. He is.not.going to actually compete with froome contador and schleck unless they all get injured.
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  • mc_mountain

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #437 on: January 01, 2013, 19:33 »
    Sky have updated their website so profiles of new riders (some proof reading might have been good for the Q and As), also updated are the races for 2013.  Most notable is that no Strade Bianche again and only US Pro challenge of the US races (I thought it might be more now with Dombo and Boswell on board).  No doubt the programme is provisional but still interesting.
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  • Dim

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #438 on: January 01, 2013, 19:40 »
    I dont think RCS have announced the Strade Bianche lineups yet and as its not WT they wont list it yet. You would think with the dedicated classics squad this year, doing nothing but one day races they would plan to do it.

    US - I very much doubt Sky will ever bother doing Tour of California again. The only purpose for them to do it is because its shown on the tv in the uk. They have no sponsors over there (unless murdoch adds more names to the shirt), they dont see it as tour preparation (they won the tour without doing it), it isnt worth any World Tour points. The pro cycling challenge is a better race and comes at a better time of year for them.

    You do have to wonder how the Pro Cycling \Challenge organisers feel about getting the #1 team in the world, and the Tour of California organisers feel about not getting the #1 team in teh world. :D
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  • mc_mountain

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #439 on: January 01, 2013, 19:55 »
    presumably the classics squad will do Qatar?

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  • Dim

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #440 on: January 02, 2013, 15:53 »
    Dan Hunt joins the team as a director Sportif.
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  • Dancing on the Pedals

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #441 on: January 02, 2013, 20:03 »
    Bit unusual for a track coach to go into a road car isn't it?  Can't imagine he knows huge amounts about road tactics...  :-\
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  • 'Sacrifice and hard work is our only secret' - Alberto Contador
    'Vinokourov...a lord of cycling' - Andrea Guardini
    'As world champion you wear the most beautiful jersey ever for a year. The rainbow stripes have something magical. All great champions have worn them' - Mark Cavendish

    againsttheclock

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #442 on: January 02, 2013, 20:12 »
    He says as much himself. Good to see fresh faces, a recruitment that's actually in line with what was claimed to be their way forward from the beginning.
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  • froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #443 on: January 02, 2013, 20:52 »
    Bit unusual for a track coach to go into a road car isn't it?  Can't imagine he knows huge amounts about road tactics...  :-\
    Not unusual for Sky in terms of that they got their main man Kerrison from the swimmers and got Shaun Stephens from the triathlon side of things. Though granted that being in the car is a bit different to working on the sidelines.
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  • froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #444 on: January 02, 2013, 20:59 »
    Actually saying that he actually does seem to have quite a bit of experience on the road and was with Sky a bit in their first season before solely focusing on the track in the build up to the Olympics.

    Quote
    The Brit was part of the team during its inaugural season in 2010, dovetailing his work on the road with his coaching position on the track within British Cycling.

    Fresh from a momentous summer which saw him help guide the men’s team pursuit quartet to a world record-breaking defence of their Olympic title in London, Hunt is now ready to reintegrate himself into road racing.

    With Team Sky and British Cycling sharing a base at the National Cycling Centre in Manchester - as well as training camps and a common leader in Dave Brailsford - Hunt already has an intimate knowledge of the team and staff.

    “We’ve walked the same corridors with the same people for three or four years now,” said Hunt. “I know everyone on this team and I have a fantastic relationship with them all.”

    As for the job at hand, after a few years out of the team car, Hunt admits: “I want to learn the races and re-learn the job of a Sports Director. But maybe also bring different things to the table, because I’m not an ex-pro. I haven’t ridden these races, so I’ve got a bit of homework to do.

    And also:
    Quote
    “In 2010 I was asked to DS on the road. I ended up doing quite a lot – around 80 days. I didn’t start racing until Tour de Picardie in May so it was a lot of racing, mainly as second DS. I did a heavy summer road programme and then went straight back onto the track. 2010 was the start of Olympic qualification and we had to start scoring points, starting at the European Champs.”

    Makes it a bit more explicable now.

    He also knows some of the guys really well, specifically the likes of Swift, Thomas, Kennaugh who he coached and liased with on the track.
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  • Dim

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #445 on: January 04, 2013, 14:19 »
    Team Kit prices finally released.

    Full replica short sleeved jersey £75
    Full replica Pro Jersey £150
    KIds replica jerseys £50

    They are though doing a "Supporters" jersey which is basically a loose fit casual version of the jersey that looks like a cycle jersey but isnt priced at £40

    http://www.rapha.cc/shop/jerseys-and-baselayers
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  • Dancing on the Pedals

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #446 on: January 04, 2013, 14:54 »
    Gulp.  A quick google shows me that, by way of comparison, a Saxo jersey will cost just under £60, and a Belgium Champion jersey from OPQS is about £46. 




    Edit:  I think I've got these figures right.  Happy to be told otherwise...
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  • froome19

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #447 on: January 04, 2013, 15:04 »
    Gulp.  A quick google shows me that, by way of comparison, a Saxo jersey will cost just under £60, and a Belgium Champion jersey from OPQS is about £46. 




    Edit:  I think I've got these figures right.  Happy to be told otherwise...
    I guess it all comes down to the quality of the team. Top class teams have more expensive shirts than merely average teams or teams on the verge of Pro Conti.

     :-[
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  • ram

    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #448 on: January 04, 2013, 15:15 »
    Demand, not quality. Though the former's proportional to the latter. Still well overpriced, unless they've still got the sales.
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  • Dim

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    Re: team Sky news
    « Reply #449 on: January 04, 2013, 16:35 »
    Got to say the t-shirt at £25 is superb



    Im taking credit for this.. i did mockups back in summer 2011 :D
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