collapse


KeithJamesMc

  • Road Captain
  • Country: gb
  • Posts: 1696
  • Liked: 1396
Re: Cycling Books
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2013, 22:30 »
Finished the Wegelius book now. Very enjoyable, but not up there with the classics. Much better than most ghost written autobiographies. Four Stars out of Five.

I found the last chapter very weird, when he was banging on about the selfishness of being a pro and it not being a way to have a happy marriage. And then the following year, he signs up as a DS at  #garmin

  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #91 on: June 14, 2013, 12:54 »


    coming out soon - not sure exact date

    so this and Wegelius - still have road to Valour to start and finish summer reading is done
  • ReplyReply
  • Of course, if this turns out someday to be the industry standard integrated handlebar-computer-braking solution then I'll eat my kevlar-reinforced aerodynamic hat.

    Larri Nov 12, 2014

    KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #92 on: June 14, 2013, 13:14 »


    The Sean Yates book is out on the 29th August. It will be interesting to compare and contrast to the Wegelius book.
  • ReplyReply

  • ak-zaaf

    • Sunday Rider
    • Posts: 4
    • Liked: 4
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #93 on: June 14, 2013, 19:39 »
    Thanks for all the input, I got a few new ones for my wishlist :)
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10572
    • Liked: 6386
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #94 on: June 17, 2013, 20:35 »
    I found the last chapter very weird, when he was banging on about the selfishness of being a pro and it not being a way to have a happy marriage. And then the following year, he signs up as a DS at  #garmin
    I guess it's like smoking. You know it's bad, but you just can't stop.


    Books I already have:
    Petzi Maluga: Spitzengruppen, Ausreißer und Wasserträger - Begriffe und Regeln des Straßenradsports (Front groups, breakaways and domestiques - Terms and rules of road cycling); 2007
    One of the first cycling books I got, and even back then I knew most of what was explained. Only recommendable for people completely new to the sport.

    Rolf Gölz: Mythos Klassiker - Eine Hommage an die großen Eintagesrennen (Myth of the Classics - A hommage to the great one-day races); 2003
    One of Germany's big one-day racers of the 80's and 90's describing the classics, mostly recalling an edition he rode himself, but with a lot of extra history. Never boring.
    Spoiler (hover to show)

    René Preuthun: De store Klassikere - 16 år med World Cup'en og dansk cyklings guldalder (The big Classics - 16 years with the World Cup and Danish cycling's golden age); 2008
    Does what it says. All World Cup races from 1989 to 2004, with well-written race reports, listing the palmarès of every rider that ever reached the podium of a World Cup race, going through the characteristics of every race. With some Danish bias, but who'll blame him. A must-have for every lover of the classics in my opinion; the only deficit would be that it doesn't describe every edition of every classic...

    René Preuthun: For enden er regnbuen - den sandfærdige historie om verdensmesterskabet i professional landevejscykling 1927-2003 (At the end, the rainbow - the true story of the professional road cycling world championships 1927-2003); 2004
    Also does what it says. Every world championship up until Hamilton 2003, again with race reports, palmarès, profiles and/or maps of most courses, and sometimes little anecdotes. Another must-have.

    Jens Voigt/Jochen Willner: Man muss kämpfen! Niemals aufgeben - Siegen lernen (You have to fight! Never give up - learn to win); 2007
    What can you say? Typically Jens! From his DDR childhood over the days at Crédit Agricole and being booed by German fans up Alpe d'Huez in 2004 to Riis and CSC.

    Marcel Wüst: Sprinterjahre - Glanz und Schatten einer Radsportkarriere (Sprinter's years - Glory and shadow of a cycling career); 2006
    Been a while since I read this one. Wüst describes his life and career. Was published when cycling was still popular in Germany.

    Chris Hoy: The Autobiography; 2009
    I knew next to nothing about track cycling before I treated myself to a five-day ticket for the 2010 track worlds in Copenhagen. Saw a.o. Baugé vs. Hoy, Howard/Meyer in the madison etc. When I was stuck at Heathrow later that year waiting for my flight, I picked this up in a store. What it says on the tin: Hoy's life and career, with a couple of (in hindsight) interesting insights into the doings at British Cycling, with Brailsford, Pendleton and so on.


    Books I want:
    That Obree/Boardman book: Reading about ITTs is fine for me, doing them - no way
    Wegelius: Been a fan too, a domestique's take on it, and that 2005 story of course
    Fignon: Everybody keeps saying how good it is
    Pinotti: Goes without saying
  • ReplyReply
  • Cyclingnews Women's Pro Cycling Correspondent
    2018 Synergy Baku Press Officer; 2017 0711|CYCLING PR Manager; 2016 Stölting Content Editor
    Views presented are my own. RIP Keith & Sean

    Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3364
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #95 on: June 17, 2013, 21:36 »
    For the French speakers, new book out by Pierre Ballister
    Link



    Apparently im in the credits :o
  • ReplyReply

  • Jamsque

    • Road Captain
    • Country: scotland
    • Posts: 2324
    • Liked: 853
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #96 on: June 17, 2013, 21:46 »
    I assume it is for your ground-breaking research in to Armstrong's 500 tests
  • ReplyReply

  • Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3364
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #97 on: June 17, 2013, 21:50 »
    Bit more in it. Apparently its mainly about the french setup, some interesting things on ASO and AFLD etc

    http://www.franceinfo.fr/cyclisme/les-choix-de-france-info/on-bousille-le-tour-de-france-pierre-ballester-journaliste-specialiste-du-1014681-2013#main-content

    UCI - 'Union des conflits d'intérêt." - Union of Conflicting Interests :D
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #98 on: June 18, 2013, 08:49 »
    went to order hunger Kelly´s book not available on amazon  :TT  will have to wait I guess
  • ReplyReply

  • benotti69

    • Road Captain
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 1697
    • Liked: 215
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #99 on: June 18, 2013, 15:58 »


    coming out soon - not sure exact date


    I somehow dont think David Walsh was the ghost writer on this one :D

    Wonder will Kelly address Wily Voet? Doubt it.
  • ReplyReply
  • "ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78

    Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1268
    • Liked: 1333
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #100 on: June 19, 2013, 20:39 »

    Rolf Gölz: Mythos Klassiker - Eine Hommage an die großen Eintagesrennen (Myth of the Classics - A hommage to the great one-day races); 2003
    One of Germany's big one-day racers of the 80's and 90's describing the classics, mostly recalling an edition he rode himself, but with a lot of extra history. Never boring.
    Spoiler (hover to show)

    The most interesting book so far for me. Unfortunately, I don't speak German.  :embarrassed Do you perhaps now if it's been translated? (Dutch, French or English is OK for me, lol).

    I have an anecdote about Gölz and Van Hooydonck about Flanders '91. But I don't have my book 'De Flandriens', with me, I need it. Gölz's career was really short. Screwed over by the dopers? He raced for Ariostea, though.

    The great thing about Fignon's book for me is that there's no picture inside (French version at least). I had picture, it makes the cost much higher (and I'm not well off) and doesn't really tell anything. I need text, first and foremost.


    Those who intend to read Kelly's book, could they tell me if he talks about Paris-Roubaix 1988, in it? I've so long wanted to know about how it unfold.
    And also if he devote more than 15% of the book to Bore de France, I won't buy it. :D


    I'm the only speaker of French on these boards I think but if you think I'm gonna buy Ballester's book, you're putting your finger in your eyes onto the back.

    Antidoping is the fantastic invention to promote Bore de France at the expense of the other races ...
  • ReplyReply
  • "Paris-Roubaix is the biggest cycling race in the world, bigger than the Tour de France, bigger than any other bike race" (Sir Bradley Wiggins)

    Dim

    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 8403
    • Liked: 3364
      • Velorooms
    • Awards: Race Preview of 2014Best Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #101 on: June 19, 2013, 20:45 »
    Larri speaks French, and i can read it
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10572
    • Liked: 6386
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #102 on: June 19, 2013, 20:52 »
    The most interesting book so far for me. Unfortunately, I don't speak German.  :embarrassed Do you perhaps now if it's been translated? (Dutch, French or English is OK for me, lol).
    I'm not sure, but I'm afraid it hasn't been translated. By now, it's not even available in German anymore in bookstores.
    Of course, you can try to contact the author himself...
  • ReplyReply

  • Joachim

    • National Champion
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 894
    • Liked: 290
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #103 on: June 20, 2013, 17:04 »
    I've read a number of cycling books, and as a rule, the ones written by current stars have been pretty bad. The one exception to this is David Millar's. It is well written and engaging, with what seems like an honest insight into the thought proccesses he went through on his journey into cheating. He is clearly much brighter tan the average rider.

    I also very much enjoyed Fignon's book for its carefree frankness and Hamilton's for the sheer WTF factor.

    Most disappointing? Cavendish's book.....but then what would you expect. Wiggins first book bored me to death, but last years was considerably better.
  • ReplyReply
  • "You can't handle the truth"

    Colonel Nathan R Jessup

    ak-zaaf

    • Sunday Rider
    • Posts: 4
    • Liked: 4
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #104 on: July 12, 2013, 21:23 »
    The most interesting book so far for me. Unfortunately, I don't speak German.  :embarrassed Do you perhaps now if it's been translated? (Dutch, French or English is OK for me, lol).

    Not sure if it's the translation of this one but I think I have it in Dutch. It's called 'Het Volk en wat volgt...'
    Really enjoyable book.

    It should be available in online bookstores.
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1268
    • Liked: 1333
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #105 on: July 15, 2013, 18:12 »
    Yeesssss ! Thank you so much. Best post I've seen so far on this forum.   :D

    I've been to my Standaard Boekhandel in Brussels, ordered it and guess what, it wasn't sold out.  :niceday Will be there within a couple of days.


    By the way, I have the anecdote about Van Hooydonck & Gölz, if some are interested (which I doubt). So in Flanders 1991, there was a lead group of 5 or 6 riders after the Kapelmuur. And Gölz - who speaks some Dutch - said to Van Hooydonck : "I'm scared of you and of the Bosberg. So I'll just take your wheel. And on the picture, you can definitely see him trying to catch EVH's wheel. But on the Bosberg, EVH would just attack - en danseuse for half of the climb - and Gölz was in his wheel but he just couldn't respond.  :D


    Recently bought at a second-hand market in Charleroi:




    And today at my bookshop in Brussels:

  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10572
    • Liked: 6386
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #106 on: July 15, 2013, 18:23 »
    Yeesssss ! Thank you so much. Best post I've seen so far on this forum.   :D

    I've been to my Standaard Boekhandel in Brussels, ordered it and guess what, it wasn't sold out.  :niceday Will be there within a couple of days.
    Good for you.
    Enjoy the read!

    By the way, I have the anecdote about Van Hooydonck & Gölz, if some are interested (which I doubt). So in Flanders 1991, there was a lead group of 5 or 6 riders after the Kapelmuur. And Gölz - who speaks some Dutch - said to Van Hooydonck : "I'm scared of you and of the Bosberg. So I'll just take your wheel. And on the picture, you can definitely see him trying to catch EVH's wheel. But on the Bosberg, EVH would just attack - en danseuse for half of the climb - and Gölz was in his wheel but he just couldn't respond.  :D
    Always interested in stuff like that. :)
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1268
    • Liked: 1333
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #107 on: July 15, 2013, 18:36 »
    I don't think I'll be disappointed and thank you too. ;-)

    By the way, I've just stumbled on an interview with Gölz that I'd like to understand:
    http://www.taz.de/1/archiv/archiv/?dig=2007/05/23/a0146


    On this clip you can see that he's constantly countering Van Hooydonck  :D:
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #108 on: July 16, 2013, 08:11 »
    read 200 ish pages of Hunger Sean Kelly yesterday - ok read but really confusing , the book jumps in dates and times

    So his manager died at the end of one chapter is giving him advice on the next page odd
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10572
    • Liked: 6386
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #109 on: July 16, 2013, 12:51 »
    Finished the Wegelius book now. Very enjoyable, but not up there with the classics. Much better than most ghost written autobiographies. Four Stars out of Five.
    Got this one in the mail today! :)
    Looking forward to reading it.
  • ReplyReply

  • LukasCPH

    • World Champion
    • *
    • Country: de
    • Posts: 10572
    • Liked: 6386
      • lukascph.media
    • Awards: Staff of the year 2016Staff of the year 2015Velorooms Tour de France BINGO champion 2014National Championships Predictions Game Winner 2014Velorooms Monday Quiz ChampionPoster of the Year 2013
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #110 on: July 16, 2013, 13:12 »
    By the way, I've just stumbled on an interview with Gölz that I'd like to understand:
    http://www.taz.de/1/archiv/archiv/?dig=2007/05/23/a0146
    Voilà, here you go:
    Spoiler (hover to show)
  • ReplyReply

  • Echoes

    • Road Captain
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 1268
    • Liked: 1333
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #111 on: July 16, 2013, 16:54 »
    Thanks Fus. Great job.  :niceday


    Does Kelly talk about the 1988 Paris-Roubaix? I've always wanted to know how it unfolded and since Fignon did not talk about it in his book, I'm still searching.

    oh and it could've done without the Wiggins foreword.  :D

    Rather like the Millar review, lol (despite the note 'King of Mountain'...)



  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #112 on: July 16, 2013, 17:44 »
    Hunger , not great tbh easy to read , but confusing timeline ,  not a huge amount of detail darkside not really mentioned.

    Echoes 88 touched on a bit nothing much.

    Was ok .

    Did not read wiggo bit  :D
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #113 on: August 21, 2013, 07:49 »
    as I said ok read , starnage time line , Omerta is still strong , but would say read it

    really good read, enjoyed it a lot , interesting take on a few things especially lotto

    just finished and really enjoyed this one , a great rwad for many reasons
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7601
    • Liked: 5847
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #114 on: September 09, 2013, 19:01 »
    Polish colleague races up to me this afternoon and thrusts a book at me. Very unlike him, I thought.

    It's Tyler Hamilton's The Secret Race and I will probably get started on it tonight because I have still not started my gargantuan book of long stories.
  • ReplyReply
  • Cycling is a Europe thing only and I only watch from Omloop on cause I am cool and sh*t
    RIP Craig1985 / Craig Walsh
    RIP KeithJamesMc / Keith McMahon

    KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #115 on: September 12, 2013, 08:15 »
    Released today.

    Interview in both the Times and the Guardian

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/12/lance-armstrong-chris-froome-sean-yates

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article3866683.ece

    The Times one is better and directly asks him the D question:
    Quote
    Drugs were so prevalent in Yates’s day that he would have been in the small minority if he did not.
    “No,” he says. “I was not tempted. I knew my physical position and I was happy to use my strengths to earn a living. I was never after the big bucks; I knew I couldn’t compete with the guys day in, day out, I didn’t want the pressure; everyone knows I don’t like the pressure.”
    Was he aware of the doping all around him? “I never saw anything untoward in all my time in pro cycling.” Was it even possible to do a good job as a domestique without drugs? “The temptation in life is to take the short cut,” he says, “even if that’s cutting the hedge. Do you clear the cuttings away properly? Are you conscientious? Do you do a proper job to collect your day’s wages? Ask anyone, whoever worked with me, they will always say that I did everything to the best of my ability. I never put myself first.”
    I say to him — and he is sighing now — that it is difficult to accept that he had been in teams with Armstrong, Bruyneel and Riis, and had not been party to doping regimes.
    “This whole doping regime thing . . . ” his voice dies with frustration. “Ask Tyler Hamilton [a former doper], has he anything bad to say about me? Ask Ivan Basso [a former banned rider]. I had nothing to do with any of it.

    There is a lot more stuff in the interviews, but I want to read the book before comment further.
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7601
    • Liked: 5847
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #116 on: September 12, 2013, 09:03 »
    Quote from: Yates
    "Ask anyone, whoever worked with me ..."
    "Ask Tyler Hamilton [a former doper], has he anything bad to say about me?"
    "Ask Ivan Basso [a former banned rider]. I had nothing to do with any of it."

    But the journo is asking you, Sean. :s

    The majority of cycling (auto)biographies are tedious. I've read enough of them to know that most completely fail to deliver the experience of racing.

    That said, I'm enjoying Hamilton's at the moment but not because of the storytelling. It is simply good to read a confirmation of how all the disparate parts fit together.

    If you don't want to get hung up on the topic of doping, do a better job of writing up your career. It really is that simple.
  • ReplyReply

  • KeithJamesMc

    • Road Captain
    • Country: gb
    • Posts: 1696
    • Liked: 1396
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #117 on: September 12, 2013, 09:15 »
    I disagree. The Wegelius bio was great, because it concentrated on a theme - the art of being a domestique.

    Having said that a lot of bio's have been very disappointing. The Roche one was so poor that I didn't bother buying the Sean Kelly one as I expected more of the same. I also bought the Wiggins one to read on a transatlantic flight and wished I'd gone to sleep instead.

    The nugget released in the Times today, about the infamous Froome disobedience on Stage 11 is very revealing about not only Froome, but also Brailsford. And will not go down well at Team Sky HQ.

    Quote
    We decided, without any ambiguity, that Froomey would stay at Brad’s side until the last 500 metres, when he would be free to attack if he wished, the idea being that he could take time out of Nibali and Evans in the race for second without endangering Brad’s lead. Even after that, right up to the morning of the stage, when we were on the bus, he was asking, “What about five kilometres out?” No. “Three kilometres?” No, Froomey.
       
  • ReplyReply

  • L'arri

    • Is on Dr Search's Green and Grey Diet
    • Grand Tour Winner
    • *
    • Country: be
    • Posts: 7601
    • Liked: 5847
    • Dopeology.org @DopeologyDotOrg @L_arriviste
      • Dopeology.org
    • Awards: Post of the year 2015Best Opening Post 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #118 on: September 12, 2013, 09:53 »
    I disagree. The Wegelius bio was great, because it concentrated on a theme - the art of being a domestique.

    Then, my dear Keith, let us see if we agree on this: the best racing bios are probably those that immediately follow the career. :P

    I think Roche and Kelly left it much too late to tell their stories, enabling Time to honey some things and to rationalise others.
  • ReplyReply

  • just some guy

    • Fourth Generation humanoid bot
    • Hall of Fame'r
    • Country: 00
    • Posts: 31267
    • Liked: 10844
    • Awards: 2017 Spring Classics CQ game winnerBest Avatar of 2016JSG News Filter Award 2014Poster of 2014Thread of the Year 2013Most Helpful Member 2013Art of Brevity 2012Most helpful member 2012Best member of staff 2012
    Re: Cycling Books
    « Reply #119 on: September 12, 2013, 09:55 »
    Then, my dear Keith, let us see if we agree on this: the best racing bios are probably those that immediately follow the career. :P

    I think Roche and Kelly left it much too late to tell their stories, enabling Time to honey some things and to rationalise others.

    plus they lied about darkside issues

    Charley not sure he did to be honest

    Yates is not getting me to read his book

    keeper of the Omerta can flip right off worse than Graham Watson , muppet
  • ReplyReply

  •  



    Top
    Back to top